Saturday January 10, 1998 Part 2 15 Message ================================== Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:48:52 -0500 From: Brian and Jennifer Kleeman To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Test Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Carol, The FeLV being "in her bones" means that the virus has reached the bone marrow. This is the final stage of the infection. BUT DON'T PANIC! Yo-yo, my healthy, happy, leaping kitty also has it "in her bones." It is not the last straw- it just means that their immune systems were not able to fight the virus off at an early stage. It also makes it extremely unlikely that they will ever test negative again. Cats that revert to negative tests usually do so at an earlier stage in the process. But Sasha can still recover from this and return to her former, more athletic self with help from you. It looks like you vet also tested for Feline AIDS (FIV) a disease that many FeLV cats seem to have also. Sasha tested negative: a good sign! I'm sure others on the list are much more familiar with what your cats blood work means than I am. I am not very familiar with many of the numbers you posted. Different labs use different codes for things. But if you'd like, I'd be happy to pester my father-in-law (the people doctor) for more specific information about what the various numbers may be signaling. You're right to notice that the numbers should be within the suggested ranges. My vet is very patient with giving me as much information as I can handle. And I ask _tons_ of questions, believe me:) Take the blood work numbers to your new vet on Teusday and ask her or him to explain what each number means one by one. If the new vet dismisses your request, you know you need to keep searching for a vet! Also, be sure to ask your new vet about Science Diet a/d. It is an extremely high calorie canned food that your vet can give you. If Sasha only eats a couple of tablespoons of it a day, she can sustain herself until her appetite returns. Children's Unflavored Pedialyte (availble at the grocery or pharmacy) may also be helpful. It is used for kids who have diarreah (sp?) and contains electrolytes etc., to keep her hydrated. It is very important to keep her eating something, ANYTHING really. I do second the warning about the checking the labels of baby food for onion powder. I recommend Heinz brand meat flavors because they contain nothing but the meat and the broth. By the same token, I avoid Gerber brand because it contains onion powder. Onions can cause cats to become anemic. Anemia is one of the results of FeLV. Therefore, the onion powder can be making a bad problem worse in a FeLV symptomatic cat. Glancing at your blood work, though, anemia doesn't seem to be a problem for Sasha. It looks like she is attempting to fight the infection-- which is good!!! That is what you want her to do. Other things to try to feed her are sardines, shrimp, organ meats, raw, warmed, or cooked depending on her preferences. Egg yolks (whites only if cooked) are also yummy things some cats like. There is also a gel-like malt vitamin substance that is available in a tube from your vet. It tastes good and will help keep her strength up. The only warning I have about trying everything and anything is that it can cause her stomach to become upset. Most cats have sensitive tummies and sudden food changes can cause problems. Start with one thing at a time (I'd work on getting the A/D since it is most nutritionally complete) and see if she likes it. I hope this helps. Again, if you need help with explaining the blood results, just let me know. My prayers are with you guys! Jennifer Kleeman Minoux Chartreux --------------------------------------- From: AskforArt Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:04:32 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Lost E-mail Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net James-- I lost my carrier connection and my felvtalk mail vanished!! could you foward the mail after "re: test" from Kleeman to my e-mail address a AskforArt@aol.com? (from today's mail) My grandson has been in the hospital, and I haven't been able to read all the mail until today. I had almost everything read--I've missed so much great info over the past few days. I'm still a novice at all of this, so if it's too difficult to send the mail, or if you don't keep it, then it's OK. LInda Plummer --------------------------------------- From: "phaedrus" To: AskforArt Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:21:28 +0000 Subject: Re: Lost E-mail Copies to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Linda, > James-- I lost my carrier connection and my felvtalk mail vanished!! > could you foward the mail after "re: test" from Kleeman to my e-mail > address a AskforArt@aol.com? (from today's mail) My grandson has been > in the hospital, and I haven't been able to read all the mail until > today. I had almost everything read--I've missed so much great info over > the past few days. I'm still a novice at all of this, so if it's too > difficult to send the mail, or if you don't keep it, then it's OK. > LInda Plummer As far as I can tell, the "re: test" was the last message sent out today. However, if you feel you've missed something (and for future reference) here's what you should do. Send an e-mail to: Majordomo@MailingList.net with the following command: get felvtalk felvtalk.980110 NOTE: felvtalk is printed twice, and the second one has a period "." between it and the date of the requested archive. Any subscribed member to this list can get any archive this way. They start at: 980102 and run through today's 980110 in the format yy/mm/dd. I hope this helps. If you are still having problems, let me know and I'll forward the archive to you directly. Take care, and good luck. In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 James G. Wilson phaedrus@ctnet.net , phaedrus69@hotmail.com , phaedrus69@juno.com, felv@angelfire.com http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/sterling/20/tribute.html http://www.litchfieldil.com/members/phaedrus/ http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html http://www.wapd.org/points/jgwilson.html --------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:20:32 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Test Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Carol, While I am an RN, some levels are different for human vs cats, but I'll give it a shot. Obviously, the White Blood Cell count is high. Lymphocytes are a type of WBC. So that is also high. This is not unusually in cats with leukemia. That's' how it got it's name, tho no relation to the human type. The end results are the same. The BUN is Blood Urea Nitrogen. This is kidney function. The Direct Bilirubin and SGOT are both Liver function tests. The platelets are also affected by the liver. Tho not a nutrition specialist by any means, you may want to back off on any fat soluble vitamins. Those are A,D,E, and K. The liver breaks these down. The others are all water soluble. Now none of them are critically high. If they were it would probably have a C or CRIT after the result. Take heart. I once had a dog whose WBC count that came back at 140 thousand! Vet said she had leukemia. She was never ill and lived another 3 years to the ripe old age of 15. Lab work is a tool, to help us figure out what the body is doing. What concerns me is she is not eating. No matter how bad Merlin got, he never stopped eating. I was amazed at this. I did give him gel called Nutri-Cal. It comes in a tube like toothpaste. It's brown and two teaspoons have all the nutrition a cat needs for the day. (they say). The IFA test was addressed by someone else. Tuesday seems a long way away. Anyway you could wiggle your way in on Monday? Explain the situation to them. I sure would like to see her on ImmunoRegulin and interferon ASAP. Feed her what ever she will eat. Put it in her mouth if you have to. I know one woman who actually chewed it up first(chicken), but the cat ate it and lived. Whatever works. Most pet stores carry the Nutri Cal or something like it. Call around and see if you can find some. Merlin licked it right off my fingers. But some don't like it. Know that we all thinking of you and sends good thoughts your and Sasha's way. My brother and his wife have a Sasha also. She was a stray they took home from here!! (Pre Leukemia era) Keep us informed how she and you are doing. Barb --------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:22:26 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Lost E-mail Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I have aol also and they are always doing that. Check mail youv'e read. It might be there. BArb --------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:25:04 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Barb Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Lynn, ' At the moment, I am not doing anything to the Positive ones. I am going to have the IFA done on them sometime this month, if any of those come up positive, I will give the interferon. I haven't have the interferon that long. About a month. I prob should give it to them, decided to wait for IFA results. All have the full course of ImmunoRegulin tho. And I watch them like a hawk for any little thing! Barb --------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:28:48 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Barb and all others Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Jim, I knew your old vet was an idiot but I had no idea to what degree!! I can't imagine what led this man to be a vet in the first place? I have a bunch of cats and they all, without exception do things for a reason. THey get jealous, angry, happy, will look me right in the eye and push something off the table or bar. What a duffous! Barb --------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:32:46 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Barb and all others Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Interesting on the clay. Merlin eats just a tiny piece or two. He doesn't throw it up. In fact, he didn't throw up thru all of this. Guess his tummy is ok. Oh, about the chicken. I am trying to wean him off of it. I thought that was neutered males that had a problem. Merlin hasn't had that done yet, he has been to sick. I am trying to convince him that cat food is better for him. He is slow at buying that. Barb --------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Nancy Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:49:36 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks for the info on the litter thing. That makes the most sense yet. Carol --------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Jennifer Kleeman Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:01:47 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks for all the info Jennifer. Sasha is getting a vitamin supplement. It's called Pet-Tinic. In fact all my kitties are. The baby food thing, I probably goofed on. Barb told me watch for Onion Salt and the Gerber ones I got said there wasn't any Onion Salt in them. I have to feed it to her with my finger. I'm still not to sure how much to give her but I feed her until she acts like thats enough for now. She is drinking water and has. The food thing just comes and goes. I tried Sardines and Shrimp. She only licked at those. She liked raw liver and raw Lamb but her vet warned against it saying that it could cause E-Coli and she wouldn't be able to fight that off. She gets B-12 which I liquified to make it easier for her, she gets Vitamin C one quarter tab of 1,000 mg, she gets CoQ 10 30 mg which is suppose to help with heart function and cellular energy, she gets Echinnacea and Echinacea with Ester C and Vitamin A and E. I got all this off the net under Holistic Treatments for FeLv. She also gets a little Aloe in pure form once a day. I'm hoping this isn't to much but it's all I have until Tuesday when she goes to the vet. Thanks again, Carol --------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Barb Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:09:31 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks once again, Barb. I'm going to lay off the Vitamin A and E. I did get the baby food but I bought Gerber and someone else suggested Heinz. Gerber didn't show any Onion Salt or anything else. I think I'll just try the Natural Health Food Store. I do feed her the baby food with my finger until she acts like enough is enough. She's actually been a little more perky today. I did try for a sooner appointment but they just couldn't get me in. Now of all things, it's snowing. Where your from it's no big deal. Out here everybody freaks out when it snows so I'm hoping it's all gone by Tuesday. Either that or I'll take a cab. But she will get there. All of her records are going with me on Tuesday. They made copies for me a her doctors so I have everything ready to go, including what I've been trying to do for her. Thanks again and I will keep you posted. Carol in Vancouver --------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Bedroom Kitty Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:10:24 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Lynn- I to have felt the same way you do about putting the positive kitty in a bedroom or room by themselves but at night I put Sasha in my computer room. It's right across from our bedroom. She has her own litter box, cold water, dry food, wet food, and her blanket. She like to sleep under my desk. In the morning she is the first one I see. I have to be honest when I tell you that being in this room by herself almost brings back the old Sasha. She always gets up and starts meowing at me with that sqeeky little meow of hers. She wants to be petted and held and talked to. When we kept her in the family room with us she was never this responsive. For today I'm going to try keeping her in this room and see how she does. For some reason she almost seems better. Maybe because seeing the other cats running around might remind her of what she used to do. But we don't just forget her. Try it. Carol --------------------------------------- From: "Cheri Gardiner" To: Subject: Baby food Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:11:29 -0600 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I use baby food as a meal time snack for my two little ones. They get the meat and some veggies. I checked the labels and it doesn't say anything about salt. Is this a mistake on the labels? Since I've been giving them baby food, they coats are silky and their eyes bright. They don't get much. Also my little ones start on interferon and shots Monday. Are there any reactions I should watch for? Both are FeLV+. So far they are healthy. Kitty does have a urinary tract infection, but she has those a lot. She's a Manx and seems to have problems in that area. I lost Mickey to FeLV. All three were vaccined. I assumed the vet tested. He didn't. He said there wasn't much FeLV in the area, so why test? Like he would know without testing. Thankfully my nwe vet (I moved to Iowa) has taken a very proactive and agressive role in helping maintain both of them. Cheri G., Kitty, Chaz In memory of little Mickey, our bubba --------------------------------------- From: Dawn Michelle Madayag Subject: Re: felv testing To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:20:42 -0500 (EST) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net > Additionally, we test the boys every 3 months and monitor their weight > at home monthly (as loss of weight is one of the earliest signs of FeLV > infection). We have chosen (for reasons I will happily explain if > anyone would like) to allow Yo-yo and the boys to continue to live > together. Yo-yo is probably constantly shedding the virus. The vaccine > is only estimated to be 65% - 85% effective. I must know if either of > the boys becomes positive so that we could begin the same routine with > them as we use on Yo-yo. > > Jennifer Kleeman > Minoux Chartreux Hi I'm very curious as to why you didn't separate them. My roommate found out that her cat is FELV+. I immediately separated them (she took longer to conform to my wishes since she didn't know how serious this was and how much this concerns me). They were together a month and a half before (and got along like they were sisters). Mine still misses her a great deal and goes to her door every day and they talk (alot). I'm still pretty mad at my roommate for not having hers tested earlier. She also makes me mad because her cat is the one that is separated. It's kept in her room. She rarely plays with it to exercise. I am the one to play with it and run it around. I was gone from the house over the holidays for about a month and a half and have started back to playing with her's. This cat is so out of shape. I gets out of breath quickly (you can tell because it pants like a dog when tired which it frequently does). Too bad cats can't choose their owners more carefully Michelle --------------------------------------- From: Dawn Michelle Madayag Subject: out of breath cat on immuno To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:37:01 -0500 (EST) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I just have a simple question. My roommate has a FELV+ cat. I play with her cat for about 15mins in morning and 15 mins and night. The cat hyperventilates every time. Not enough to warrant putting a bag on her face or anything but a out of breath pant. Is this a side effect or a sympton or is the cat just way out of shape? Michelle --------------------------------------- END