Monday January 5, 1998 9 Messages ======================================== From: "phaedrus" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:00:12 +0000 Subject: Steve Lackow's elixir Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello everyone, I've been reading the information on Steve Lackow's wonderfully organized site on FeLV, and I came across a treatment he uses for his FeLV+ kitty, Chloe. You can find Steve's page at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/6167/ Steve, since you're on this list as well, could you elaborate on this elixir? There are many people here who use holistic medicine, and your elixir sounds like just the thing. Would you be willing to share your recipe with us? Take care, and I hope to hear from you soon. In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 James G. Wilson phaedrus@ctnet.net , phaedrus69@hotmail.com , phaedrus69@juno.com, felv@angelfire.com http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/sterling/20/tribute.html http://www.litchfieldil.com/members/phaedrus/ http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html http://www.wapd.org/points/jgwilson.html ----------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: Steve Lackow's elixir Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:09:46 -0800 Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello James (and all), how are you? I should be more specific about "the elixir" or intended immuno-booster. It consists of pure aloe vera juice from whole leaves, buffered vitamin C, and wild yam extract. The aloe vera juice should not be reconstituted from gel but should be fresh and from the whole leaf, expect to pay $10+ a quart for this stuff from a health food store. Any buffered Vitamin C will do, but Ester C and sodium rather than calcium based ascorbate is preferred for best absorption. Finally, there is the wild yam extract (DHEA precursor) -- I use a tincture which is alcohol-based and should never be given to a cat "straight". I use an old Grolsch beer bottle with the apothecary top to mix all this stuff -- about 4 oz. of aloe juice, one-half tablespoon of C and 10 drops of wild yam extract per batch. Chloe gets about 3ccs of this every other day directly by mouth. (I strongly advise not administering drugs in a cat's food -- you don't want to do anything that will deter eating, and less drug will go into the cat in any event.) So, while the ingredients are not "cheap", a little goes a long way. Also, it tastes pretty bad, but the fizziness of the vitamin C helps (cats like that). Chloe disliked it initially, but now it's no big deal at all. Be very careful with Vitamin C. Not only does it cause acid problems, but studies show that C can be toxic in the mega-doses some people were recommending for human colds and virii a while back. The therapeutic spectrum for C is proving to be much, much narrower than was previously thought. I would suggest that anyone interested in C contact the Linus Pauling Institute, don't have the URL handy right now but there's a link from my site at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/6167. I apologize in advance for any of the dumb ads you may encounter, at least Geocities has them opening in a seperate window now so they are easier to dismiss. Also wanted to mention the interferon protocol again -- someone on this list mentioned nasal administration (Bonnie?) and I find that real interesting! My understanding is that the interferon needs to reach the lymph nodes ASAP, and I have been instructed to get it under the cat's tongue and around the mouth. At any rate, can't argue with results. While she still has some bad days, Chloe is bouncing off the walls most of the time. For a cat with a red blood count of 8 in June who dropped 1/4 of her body weight in a week... not too shabby! She will be coming off the interferon shortly, and we'll see what we have in February. -- Steve ------------------------------------------- From: "phaedrus" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:20:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Steve Lackow's elixir Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hey Steve (and all), > I use an old Grolsch beer bottle with the apothecary top to > mix all this stuff -- about 4 oz. of aloe juice, one-half tablespoon of C > and 10 drops of wild yam extract per batch. Chloe gets about 3ccs of > this every other day directly by mouth. Thanks- this is exactly what I was hoping for. Would it be alright to copy your post and add it as a recipe under our holistic section on the FeLV project web page? > (I strongly advise not > administering drugs in a cat's food -- you don't want to do anything that > will deter eating, and less drug will go into the cat in any event.) This is a *very* good point. One of the biggest problems we encounter with symptomatic FeLV kitties is suppression of appetite, so we have to be careful not to deter their willingness to eat. Have you come across any special diets that help stimulate these kitties' appetites while providing all the extra nutrients they need? I know many vets prescribe "stimucal" and the like, but my Vyvyan wouldn't go near it. > Be very careful with Vitamin C. Not only does it cause acid problems, > but studies show that C can be toxic in the mega-doses some people were > recommending for human colds and virii a while back. The therapeutic > spectrum for C is proving to be much, much narrower than was previously > thought. I would suggest that anyone interested in C contact the Linus > Pauling Institute, don't have the URL handy right now but there's a link > from my site at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/6167. This, too, is a very good point. I've been reading studies that show vit C to be detrimental to FeLV cats whose livers have been weakened by FeLV. For those that supplement their cats' diets with extra vit. C, keep a close eye out for the signs of liver distress such as jaundice and bile in their vomit. Also, if you've had bloodwork done on your pet, be sure to ask your vet about the pet's liver functions. Vitamin C has been shown to be an essential part of building a strong immune system, but it must be used wisely. > Also wanted to mention the interferon protocol again -- someone on this > list mentioned nasal administration (Bonnie?) and I find that real > interesting! My understanding is that the interferon needs to reach the > lymph nodes ASAP, and I have been instructed to get it under the cat's > tongue and around the mouth. I know that Barb Stock (a member of this list and one of my partners for the FeLV project page) has had success with intranasal use of interferon in treating her Merlin's URI (possibly one of the secondary infections as a result of being a young kitten that was born with FeLV). Most studies (although aging now) suggested targeting the tonsils. Yet, I believe that you are correct that the interferon would reach the lymph nodes quicker if administered under the tongue. > At any rate, can't argue with results. While she still has some bad > days, Chloe is bouncing off the walls most of the time. For a cat with a > red blood count of 8 in June who dropped 1/4 of her body weight in a > week... not too shabby! She will be coming off the interferon shortly, > and we'll see what we have in February. > > -- Steve RBC of 8!? Wow, I remember Vyvyan being nearly at the end when his RBC was 14. For those that may not know, a cat's red blood cell (RBC) count should normally read between 30 and 45. Vyvyan was a huge cat, and he lost nearly half of his body weight before I finally decided to help him along to the bridge. As most of you know, I didn't find out about these treatments in time to save him (and my vet refused to use them once I did find them). I hope that more people will join in on these discussions and share their experiences with us. It is always helpful to hear what others are doing for their kitties, and Steve, it sounds as though you've hit on a winner for Chloe. I wish you and her the best of luck, and I encourage folks here to check out Steve's pages- he's put forth quite an effort for our feline friends. Talk to y'all soon. In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 James G. Wilson phaedrus@ctnet.net , phaedrus69@hotmail.com , phaedrus69@juno.com, felv@angelfire.com http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/sterling/20/tribute.html http://www.litchfieldil.com/members/phaedrus/ http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html http://www.wapd.org/points/jgwilson.html ------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:24:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Steve Lackow's elixir Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Steve, Your information was extremely interesting--thank you for sharing. Got questions for you. You mentioned that mixing medicines with the cat's food would mean that less drug gets into the cat--how so? I understand the not eating part but am curious about the rest. How do you get the interferon in Chloe under the tongue? Also, I am curious about taking Chloe off interferon--what is the thinking behind this? So happy Chloe is doing so well! Thanks! Nancy ---------------------------------------- From: macat@webtv.net (belinda sauro) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:43:18 -0800 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Steve Lackow's elixir Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi, the only thing I could get Bailey to eat was baby food, at the time he wouldn't eat anything. I don't know the nutritional value of it but I hoped he would eat enough of the baby food to keep his strength up until he got his appetite back, this worked on more than one occasion. The baby food I used is the Gerbers #2 meat flavors, he really liked them. His left eye is dialated and he throws up occasionally, he was on the immunoregalin protacal for about 5 months but it was so stressful to go to the Vet. we stopped the treatment about 3 or 4 months ago and he seems to be doing fine. P.S. If they don't seem to be interested in the baby food try heating it up a bit. Good luck with Merlin, hope everything works out O.K. Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats... ------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: Steve Lackow's elixir Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:48:49 -0800 Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Nancy... >You mentioned that mixing medicines with the cat's >food would mean that less drug gets into the cat--how so? The cat needs to "clean the plate" to get all the drugs under the best of circumstances -- and FeLV cats have appetite problems. In short, it is relatively ineffective and could put the cat off from eating. >How do you get the interferon in Chloe under the tongue? Slowly! I pinch her nose with one hand and admin the med with the other, or have someone help me. One thing I'd like to mention to everybody is to by all means get friends and neighbors involved, this comes in mighty handy when you have to take a trip and kitty is already used to others' handling. >Also, I am curious about taking >Chloe off interferon--what is the thinking behind this? I'm curious, too. My understanding is that it becomes less effective if constantly given, so that's why almost every protocol I've heard of calls for time on and time off, e.g. one week on and one week off. Chloe's protocol is once every three days til the half-pint is gone, that takes more than 6 months. We'll see. >So happy Chloe is doing so well! Really, it comes and it goes, but mostly she is indeed well! Thanks. Nancy, have you a little one or ones suffering with this? -- Steve -------------------------------------- From: "phaedrus" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:42:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Steve Lackow's elixir Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all, > >Also, I am curious about taking > >Chloe off interferon--what is the thinking behind this? > > I'm curious, too. My understanding is that it becomes less effective if > constantly given, so that's why almost every protocol I've heard of calls > for time on and time off, e.g. one week on and one week off. Chloe's > protocol is once every three days til the half-pint is gone, that takes > more than 6 months. We'll see. Long term use of Interferon has been shown to produce adverse side effects is why it is so carefully monitored in humans. So, it stands to reason that this would also be true of cats. Remember, these cats are being treated with human recombinant alpha interferon. No one really knows what the possible long term side effects might be with cats- although we are talking about minute doses in comparison. Human treatments range in the 6 million unit per dose range while, for cats, it is in the 30 units per dose range. It is at this level that I wish we had some research veterinarians on this list- I'd like to know what the current thoughts are in research circles. Anyway, that's my two cents on possible reasons to pull back on extended use. In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 James G. Wilson phaedrus@ctnet.net , phaedrus69@hotmail.com , phaedrus69@juno.com, felv@angelfire.com http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/sterling/20/tribute.html http://www.litchfieldil.com/members/phaedrus/ http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html http://www.wapd.org/points/jgwilson.html --------------------------------------- From: "Lynn or Josiah Stickels" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Feeding felv kitties Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:47:16 -0800 Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net I just wanted to share a little of what I have learned over the past year and a half with my leukemia kitty, Stinker. I use to be happy with whatever he would eat......baby food, canned food, meat, etc. I found that he wasn't getting enough so for the past month, I have hand fed him(I don't really force him) prescription A/D canned food from the vet. I feed him all through the day, small amounts so that he gets a can a day. I also give him Felovite 11 vitamins in the morning. I at least now know that he is getting the nutrients and food to help him fight. My kitty, Stinker, is on immunoregulin(for the past year and a half) and I just started him on the Interferon around Christmas. By the way, I didn't think he would live to even try it as he was suffering from a upper respriatory infection. But he did and he is doing really great these past few weeks. I also wanted to add that I give him aspirin for pain and fever. You can give a cat 1/4 of a baby aspirin every other day. I have found that this helps him greatly. My kitty, suffers with a horrible mouth, gingivitis. He is also on indefinite antibiotics, Antirobe. Without it, we have found, he gets poisoned from the infection and gets really sick, near death. I was going to ask anyone if there is something extra I could do to help fight the harmful effects I know the antibiotics must be doing. Is there any suggestions? One more thing I would like to share is that Stinker really likes it when I spray him with an anti-itch conditioner and comb him.:O) ---------------------------------------- From: "phaedrus" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:09:03 +0000 Subject: Merlin and other things Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all, Barb Stock's message has bounced, so I'm forwarding it along. ----------------Forwarded Message-------------------- From: Newtanator Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:23:50 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cc: rdc@corax.com Subject: Merlin and other things Hello All, Took Merlin back to the vets today. It was unseasonably warm, so I thought it would be a good time to scoot in with him to talk some things over with my vet and get his ImmunoRegulin shot. Bottom line was, he would be happy to refer me to a neuro specialist but said to be able to tell me anything they would have to do mylograms, spinal taps etc. and they would keep him for a couple of days at least to do all these tests. Needless to say, I have decided to just keep doing what I am doing. I really do think all that would kill him. There have been some ever so slight improvements. He yawned this morning. Now that doesn't sound like much, but I realized that he hadn't done that for two weeks. Also, just tonight, he went from a totally flat position, to rolling forward and putting his head up. He is also flexing his front paws. All small things we take for granted that our cats can do. No sitting or trying to get up but I will take what I can get for now. After all, two weeks ago, I was sure he was dying. Here he is, still eating and watching and purring when I hold him. I want to thank everyone for all the suggestions. I have taken a little from all and, well, it seems to be helping. His highness got a bath tonight, he didn't like it but likes being clean again. And got blown dry of course. He is all snuggy warm waiting for his bedtime meal. I must go now and tend to him. More tomorrow. Barb -------------------------------------------------------------------------- In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 James G. Wilson phaedrus@ctnet.net , phaedrus69@hotmail.com , phaedrus69@juno.com, felv@angelfire.com http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/sterling/20/tribute.html http://www.litchfieldil.com/members/phaedrus/ http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html http://www.wapd.org/points/jgwilson.html ----------------------------------------- END