The following interview was done with Hendrik Möbus by Mourning The Ancient from the Buffalo Federal Detention Facility on April 2, 2001. In this discussion, Hendrik talks about everything from his beginnings as a child, his growing up and struggle in the former German Democratic Republic, his imprisonment as a teenager for the murder of Sandro Beyer, his vast work and involvement in underground music, to his current situation, where he is being detained in the USA awaiting extradition back to his homeland. This interview certainly shows another side of Hendrik which the media and the authorities would rather you not see. A human side. The story of a man arrested and internationally persecuted for exercising the basic human right of freedom. Freedom: the dwindling dream man has fought, bled and died for since the dawn of civilization, and will probably continue to fight for until the end of time. For it would seem that there are always those who believe they are justified in taking away the freedom of another for any reason they deem fit.
Could we begin by you explaining your current situation and the events leading up to it?
I'm currently held captive by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) of the US Department of Justice. I'm applying for political asylum in the USA, while the INS intends to remove me. I fear I will be persecuted in my homeland, the Federal Republic of Germany (FRG), for my political opinions and religious beliefs. I came to the USA in December of 1999, and traveled from the Pacific Northwest to Appalachia. On the 26th of August 2000, the US marshals arrested me (and broke my left elbow) on an extradition request from the FRG.
This extradition request was dismissed in September 2000, however. The FRG wants me to serve the remainder of a youth penalty (32 months), plus two jail terms (8 months and 18 months), for political offenses. Moreover, the FRG wants me to stand trial for further political offenses I've allegedly committed in between September 1998 and December 1999. They also charged me with "publishing anti-constitutional propaganda" on the web site that has been setup by the Committee to Free Hendrik Möbus (This web site). A few weeks ago, an immigration judge denied my asylum request on technical grounds. I have an appeal pending with the Board of Immigration Appeals.
If you could go back and change any events of your past, what, if anything, would you change?
I would go back and straighten out all the errors of judgment, and the tactical blunders I'm guilty of, of course. In particular, my relationship with certain individuals, which worked out very bad for me, would have to be reversed. I made my greatest mistakes by depending on people who are plainly worthless. But then, you can't really do everything on your own. I just hope I actually learned from my past experiences. You can't revise your past, but you can quite certainly avoid repeating past failures.
The media has branded into people's heads an image of you, one of a murderer, a Satanist, etc. But those who know you on a more personal level see this description as very far from the truth. The ordeal of your youth and your imprisonment in Germany seems to have haunted you long after you have paid your dues. Where do you envision yourself being now if those events hadn't occurred?
You're quite correct to point out the huge difference that exists between the public image of me and the real person. No one who ever gotten to know me found the media image of me confirmed. You know, after the nuclear detonation in Hiroshima, one could find the shadowy outlines of people branded into the very stone. The people themselves, their bodies, were vaporized by the thermo-nuclear flash. Only their shadows were left fixed on the spot forever. It's the same with the media: the image of me, as portrayed by the newspapers and TV, is a mere shadow, black and white. If you look for the real person that supposedly cast the shadow, then you look in vain. This person isn't there, and does not exist in all the articles and broadcasts. So, just by reading what people write about me, or by listening to what people say about me, you won't figure out the person I truly am.
Now, I can't really and honestly say what kind of person I would be without the past eight years that have so much shaped and bent my life. I suppose I could be a far different type of man. Or maybe not, maybe the difference to my own present self would be insignificant in itself, but still important enough to have me go about a completely different way of life. That's tough to figure out, really, and I'm not much for guesswork anyway. I think it comes down to the question of how much of yourself is destined by genetics and heredity, and how much is due to external influences. I usually don't think too much about "what if's"; I'm too involved in dealing with the plain "what is" every single day.
Could you tell us about your daily routine now and what it consists of? Do you get many letters from supporters? Are you allowed visitors? Would you like to say any words to your supporters?
My daily routine is virtually non-existent. I live in solitary confinement, without daylight, fresh air, exercise, or much recreation, because our "colored brethren" would really enjoy hurting me. The inmate population of this facility consists of 95% Blacks and Mestizos, and that whole lot hates Whites. Anyway, I do receive up to twenty letters per week, so much of my time is spent replying to my mail. I can receive visitors (non-contact/30 minutes) but there really isn't much point for anyone to come out here for the sake of paying me a visit. If you still want to, however, then let me know.
Well, it's a gratifying experience to notice the support for my case, because, even though it may sound preposterous, I'm bearing a cross for a whole lot of people. You know, quite a few think it sufficient to blare their defiance through the anonymity of a computer network; they wouldn't even dream of confronting the system face-on. However, the system won't self-destruct while you're standing idly by. The system won't be taken down by web sites, chat rooms, e-mail lists, leaflets, spray paintings, compact discs, or petty acts of vandalism and hooliganism. It doesn't work that way in real life.
The system must be taken down by decisive action, and only a tiny fraction of the "movement" goes for that. So, without beating my chest, I believe that moral support is the least one ought to expect in this situation, when the system bears down on you with all its terrible strength, trying to crush you utterly. It would be so easy to give in, to come to terms with the system. Everyone who withstands this temptation deserves all the support his like-minded peers are able to give him.
The NA has done a lot of work on your behalf. Could you tell us a little about your relationship with them and your thoughts on the work they have done for your case? In particular, aside from your international supporters, did you ever expect so many Americans would support you in your ordeal?
The National Alliance (NA) is a very dedicated, very serious organization that ought to be considered by everyone concerned with the future of the Aryan race. They support me tremendously. I would be in quite bad shape without their backing me unconditionally so far, and that's a loyalty I really appreciate and reward likewise. Dr. William Pierce is the most impressive American character I've ever encountered, and it's a bloody shame that he can't run this country since this country badly needs people of his personality and mind set.
Well, as you said, the NA has done and is still doing a lot of work on my behalf, and apart from Dr. Pierce I'd like to acknowledge Evelyn Hill, Erich Gliebe, and Billy Roper. They all really help me out one way or another. Well, I certainly thank everyone for supporting me and for donating to my defense fund, and yes, indeed, it comes as a surprise to see how many decent Americans have rallied behind my case without second thoughts. It sometimes is difficult to believe there are any decent Americans still left at all!
Going now to a more personal level, could you tell us about your upbringing, influences and experiences that have shaped who you are today?
Now there's a question! Although I'm only twenty five years young, I think I could write a book about this quarter of a century. Anyway, I'm the second of six children, and my parents are still married. This alone merits a book, I guess, because it has a novelty character nowadays. Sad but true. It assuredly influenced me a great deal. My home was Christian Protestant, which was rather unusual in the German Democratic Republic. Still I joined the Communist youth organizations and underwent quite a bit of indoctrination in regard to forming ideology. In 1990, when I was fourteen years old, The Iron Curtain came tumbling down and shattered the world I lived in. Suddenly it was all wrong, what I had learned so far, and the former "ideological enemy" turned out to be the "best friend" of everyone on Earth. Believe it or not, the vast majority of die-hard communists switched hats overnight. This lesson in the indifference of people towards belief systems I never forgot.
Apparently little matters to the "common people" except the basics of their daily lives. They are just as eager to accept one reality as they are to accept the very antithesis of this reality when this seems fashionable. So I told myself: Now with that one belief system being replaced by another, which is equally well-received by an overwhelming majority of the population, how can I verify the fundamental truth of it? Couldn't either of them be based on the truth? Or couldn't either of them be based on a lie? How can I believe in anything at all that is propagated by the ruling powers that be?
You see, this matter of truth or lie was totally irrelevant to most of the people in my environment. They couldn't care less, as long as they knew what "those up there" expected of them. I for my part, who am a rather curious and skeptical person, couldn't figure out the questions that puzzled me so much, and I eventually decided to be no part of this system. I just backed off, and ended up way out on the fringe with all those people who resent the system for no particular reason whatsoever. I got caught up with "nihilism, anarchism, Satanism" -- all these "isms" that came along with the new "freedom" from the West.
There never was a commitment to such "anti-cults" however, except for my very general dealing with terminology and people involved in them. I was, of course, stuck in my own adolescent rebellion at this time. To shorten a long story, I got myself in involved in a nasty conflict that left one other teenager dead, and I was subsequently sentenced to a youth penalty of eight years. During this period, which lasted from 1993 to 1998 (when I was released on probation), I busied myself with studies about the elementary questions and riddles of life.
When I was younger my grandparents introduced me to genealogy, and I learned about my relatives from several centuries ago. This gave me a strong sense of kinship, of belonging to an uninterrupted chain of generations of which I was but a single link. My grandparents also told me of the history of my hometown, and how our family fit into this picture, which certainly helped me to form out my identity. Moreover, I shared the love for nature and wildlife with my family. I guess the subtleties and complexities of nature, of which I learned, have in a most profound sense shaped my perspective and perception.
What am I, if not a tiny molecule of a Greater Being? Last but not least, from an early age on I was fascinated by space exploration and science fiction. Anyway, working through painstaking studies and often erroneous conclusions, I eventually arrived at the Weltanschauung, the outlook, which I believed to be the most apt for my character. I took no "official truth" for granted, due to the experience I described earlier, and I second guessed every bit and piece of intelligence I came across in the controlled media. This attitude helped enormously for discovering the truth at last. As I suspected all along, we're shamelessly lied to and deceived by everyone in the service of the ruling powers-that-be. From politicians to professors, from journalists to priests -- either rationally or instinctively they all are a bunch of cunning and vile liars and hypocrites. I rejected their "truth" and the system that is based upon it. After all, as I have learned during the decline and collapse of Communism, something doesn't become true just because almost everyone accepts it as such. The truth is not an issue with the masses.
Anyway, now I'd found my rationale for rejecting the current system per se. I knew what we're lied to about, how we're lied to, and why we're lied to. I no longer needed any "anti-cults" for expressing my discontent; I even realized that such "anti-cults" are part of the lies too. Incidentally, I played in a band and knew many people in the alternative music industry. So it was just logical to utilize the music I recorded and produced for the sake of promoting my world view. With this intention, I was but one of many, a part of an ever-growing youth culture that revolves around music and accompanying ideas. Since 1997, I became actively involved in producing music and reporting about music, and I also organized numerous music concerts from 1998 until 1999. Apart from music, I've been keenly interested in books dealing with history, philosophy, religion, and psychology. You could pretty much say that I've grown up on a regular diet of books! Needless to say, I clashed with the powers-that-be more than once. The injustice and persecution I experienced for nothing but speaking my mind and expressing myself, affirmed me in my convictions. It's true, I've been baptized in my faith by this struggle, the struggle I was compelled to start for the sake of the truth as I know it.
Do you have any support from family? Are you in contact with any of them? How do they feel about your ordeal?
Well, I'm in steady contact with my relatives, and they support me as well as they are able to. Unfortunately, and this is the worst part of my ordeal, they are made to suffer on my behalf by the powers-that-be, even though they don't share all of my sentiments and notions. It's guilt of association, and devised to break my will for carrying on the struggle. The authorities very well know how highly I value kinship, thus they try to harass my relatives with the hope it'll affect me too. My folks quite assuredly wish me well, but they also understand that I'm an adult and am solely responsible for my own fate. There is a tacit understanding that neither of us will intentionally interfere with the life of the other.
When you were a child, what hopes and dreams did you possess? If you could go back and offer a piece of advice to yourself at a young age, what would it be?
As a child I shared the hopes of my contemporaries, I guess. Nothing fancy, really innocent and naive. The hope that everything would be fine and get better, you know. What did I know of the world and fellow humans anyway? I dreamed of medieval castles, of knights, and dragons. I dreamed of starships, of astronauts, and aliens. You could argue that I'm enchanted, to a certain extent, by such dreams now as before. And you would be right about that, you know. I'm a German Romantic at heart. Still, I think there are two pieces of advice I'd like to offer to my younger self. For one thing, don't expect other people to adhere to the same values and virtues that I do, regardless of their paying lip service to ethical principles such as honor, loyalty, and honesty. I've been cheated and disappointed by many persons who couldn't or wouldn't live up to my standards. And a second piece of advice would admonish me to waste neither time nor opportunity, to not procrastinate when plenty of activities need to be tended to. I realized that many things are left undone unless I myself take care of them. You can't depend on others for accomplishing your very own tasks.
Can you recall a time or event in your life that helped shape who you are today, your beliefs, etc.?
Well yes, there's the time when my grandparents were still alive and influenced me in one way or another. They planted many seeds I wasn't even aware of until these seeds eventually blossomed and enriched my personality. Then there was the incident that snuffed out the life of a teenager who was, literally, at the wrong place at the wrong time. This incident revealed fundamental truths about human nature: homo homini lupus. Despite the "social engineering" that so greatly conditions our lives (and certainly not for the better) nowadays, the ultimate difference between "modern man" and "caveman" is barely visible. Every ideology or religion that doesn't take this fact into account is ultimately anti-human. Last but not least, my time behind bars helped me to overcome many of my former follies, and to forge a character that can, I dare say, withstand a lot of external pressure. I'm proud to be myself in the first place, although I am naught without the greater context of my family, folk, and race.
Looking back on your life, when were you the most content? At what point, if ever, did you see things going in the right direction for you personally?
I'm afraid I can never be fully content for as long as I live. It's just that I live in an idealized past and an utopian future. Neither offer me refuge from my troubled present however. Anyway, I recall a very quiet and peaceful time when I was very young, in the early and mid-1980's. My grandparents owned a house with a big garden/orchard adjoining, and I spent many blissful days there. That was a time in which I knew no sorrow or misery. Much later, in 1998-99, I had a completely different yet equally satisfying time too. My business flourished, I organized cultural and spiritual events, and many new people entered my life (for better or worse). I felt very much alive and tapped into the currents that make history in the long run. I experienced the energy still slumbering yet immense, which one day will once more shake the world and let people tremble in fear. That is the energy of Destiny.
Looking to the future, where do you see yourself twenty years from now? Are there any specific goals you feel you must accomplish? Things you wish to experience yet in your life?
Ah, this question requires a stargazer I presume. I wish I knew what my future will be, but after all the turns and twists I have experienced so far, I can only imagine my future will be quite different from any prediction that can be made today. Well, I of course want to accomplish the preservation and advancement of my -- the Aryan -- race. I want to be a tool of the evolution, paving the way to the superman. For myself, however, I hope for the opportunity of going to war. (It is of course reasonable to expect the cause of saving my race requires a war sooner or later anyway.) This might be a silly and preposterous notion to anyone with real combat experience, yet I don't think I experienced my life to the fullest until I've gone through the "storms of steel." I wouldn't mind being a mercenary for five years. The idea of killing or getting killed is neither thrilling nor shocking to me. I'm rather fascinated by the mind-game of beating the enemy with a superior strategy. The "Triumph of the Will!"
We who believe in war -- who know its value and its purpose -- have been silent for too long. We need to once again proudly and defiantly sing the praises of war!"
What do you feel is most important for people to know about you now? Help shatter the media stereotypes and myths.
I can't say, because I'm not overly concerned with what other people think or know of me. You see, I don't consider myself outstanding or deserving in any particular way. What I'm saying has been said many times before. What I'm doing has been done many times before also. It goes without saying that I expect my struggle to be acknowledged for what it is -- a struggle on behalf of too many who either don't care at all or who don't care enough about our freedom and survival as a racial and folkish community with a common, unique culture and spirituality.
I'm not preaching the truth and fighting the lies for my own sake only. Whatever status I have has been granted to me by others. I'm not aspiring to fancy titles and high offices. I just have a desire to be myself and to express myself. However, I wish to emphasize my intellectual, political, and spiritual progression which has taken place during the past eight years. The controlled media still operates with an image that is thoroughly outdated -- and was never really true in the first place. If you wish to know and to understand who I am, then you must of course take me as I am. It is unjust and unfair to form an opinion of me on the basis of hearsay and that is what 99% of all the controlled media reports are. I just can't fathom people who consciously ignore the facts even though they are available right on the World Wide Web.
What is most motivational for you now? What keeps you going on a day-to-day basis?
As I explained earlier, I certainly appreciate the support I receive, and this support motivates me too. It shows me that I'm not a "preacher in the desert." However, I'm very much motivated and awe-inspired by the life and death of Adolf Hitler, who undoubtedly served the cause of the Aryan race in a manner I couldn't even dream of emulating. I'm furthermore impressed by my contemporaries Dr. William Pierce, Varg Vikernes, and David Myatt; all of whom labor tremendously for the same cause that I do, and with whom I share the Grand Imperative of advancing evolution until the Aryan can reach out and colonize the stars -- the final frontier that will spawn a galactic civilization undreamed of by even the greatest thinkers of our kind. Beside this Imperative, my own life and current ordeal are dwarfed to insignificance, yet not to irrelevance. This greater perspective helps to keep my spirits up. Last but not least, I revere all the martyrs that died for my cause, and whom I must not shame.
Freedom, justice, and truth are some of the things which must be defended on every level, with constant vigilance. Although they have temporarily taken your freedom, what are the things that no one could ever take from you?
My honor, I suppose. As long as I steadfastly adhere to the values and virtues which distinguish my kin and made us great, I have nothing to fear. Should I cave in to my adversaries and abandon the struggle, I would disgrace not only myself but every single one of my ancestors and all those following after me. This would be a defeat greater than anything that can be done to me. So, it is only I who could ultimately defeat myself, but I am pretty confident that my adversaries can never compel me to do that. Whatever they inflict on me in form of persecution and punishment, my honor will prevail.
Lastly, we thank you for taking the time and thoughts to answer our questions. Your final thoughts please?
Well, thank you for the opportunity to give voice to my mind and heart. In conclusion I'd like to underscore the necessity for everyone to get actively engaged in the struggle for the truth that will set us free. It just won't do for you to think someone else might step up and it doesn't have to be you. The issue of racial survival concerns every sound and healthy Aryan, like it or not. To be intimidated by the controlled media, the authorities, and the ARA/JDL, really puts shame on your face. What can they do to you that comes even close to the horror of ultimate racial and cultural extinction?! Do right and fear none!
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|It is possible to take a second, more penetrating, look at people who have the reputation for villainy and evil, and sometimes the second look makes for a reappraisal of the naughty ones. - John O'Hara|