Middle Kingdom - Internal Letter of Acceptances & Returns – April 2003 

This is the April 2003 Middle Kingdom Letter of Acceptances and Returns for Escutcheon and Keythong’s February Letters. Unless otherwise noted, all clients will accept changes. {Comments in braces {} were removed from the Letter of Intent sent to Laurel and the College of Arms. Names, devices, or badges in braces have been returned or pended; general comments or replies to commentary are also placed in braces. Thanks to Aryanhwy merch Catmael, Knut, Pendar the Bard, Lucien d’Artois, John ap Wynne, Zacarias el Silento, Rory mac Feidhlimidh, Dugan MacLeod, Ælfreda æt Æthelwealda, Mikhail of Lubelska, and Jaelle of Armida for their commentary this month.} 

 

1) Alaxandar mac Gille-Míchél. New Name and Device. Vert, a saltire between three scorpions Or.

Submitted as Alastair mac Michel, the client stated a wish to have an authentic 12^th-14^th century Scots Gaelic name meaning “Alexander son of Michael.” Our commentators’ research indicated that Alaxander mac Gille-Míchél would be the best option and we contacted the client for his decision. He agreed and asked us to change his submission accordinging.

Alaxandar is found in Krossa, “Scottish Gaelic Given Names: For Men” [March 28,2003 update] (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/men.shtml) and is found in the 13^th, 15^th, and 16^th centuries. Gille Mícheil is found in ibid and dated to the 16^th century. The client will NOT accept MAJOR changes, cares most about the language/culture and wishes to have an authentic 12^th-14^th century Scots Gaelic name meaning ‘Alexander son of Michael’. 

Name Commentary

Aryanhwy: The name is not found as <Michel> or <Míchél>in Effrick's article; the spellings listed are <Gille-Míchéil>, <Gille-Míchél> and <Gille-Mícael>.  The genitives listed are the same.  To be grammtically correct as well as authentic for his period, this should be changed; there is no evidence that <Michael> in a non-compound form was adopted into Scottish Gaelic before 1600.  <Alastair> is a Scots or English form; the Scottish Gaelic form of <Alexander> is <Alaxandar>, found in the 13th C, 15th C, and 16th C in Effrick's "Scottish Gaelic Given Names: For Men" draft updated 04Jan03 (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/men.shtml). <Alaxander mac Gille-Míchél> is a lovely 12th-14th C Scottish Gaelic name. 

John: see Zaczek (63); Conway (68); Todd (78); Coghlan (9); O Corrain & Maguire (21-22); Norman (114, 120,129) lists this as one of the most common names in Scotland 843-1542. Michel: see O Corrain & Maguire (136); Conway (78); Black (542-543). 

Device Commentary

Pendar: No conflicts found through 11/02. The closest potential conflicts all had at least 1 CD for number and another for type of secondaries. Please note that in all other cases where there are three charges arranged around a saltire, their placement is specified. Blazon-fu: Vert, a saltire between three scorpions one and two Or. 

Knut: Vert, a saltire between three scorpions one and two Or.

Unusual arrangement.

Clear 

Aryanhwy: The arms would be much nicer with four scorpions instead of three, but this is just a stylistic comment; there is nothing wrong with them.  In fact, if there *were* four, this would conflict with Kenric Bjarnarson (reg. 2/96 via the Middle), "Vert, a saltire between four escutcheons Or." As it is, there is a CD for changing type of secondAryand one for number. 

Lucien: I found no conflicts with this device. 

 

2) Aregundis de Aire. New Name.

Submitted as Aregunda de Aire, we believe that the client’s source has modernized the spelling and have corrected it (per the client’s wishes) to make it more authentic. Aregundis is found in Morlet (I:40,b).

The client provides a copy of a translation of History of the Franks written by Gregory, Bishop of Tours. In that history Gregory (75) notes that Aregunda was the sister of Ingunda, wife of King Clothar. She is the mother of his son Chilpeic. Ibid (213) notes that King Childebert claims Aire as a part of his kingdom. The client is most interested in sound and wants an authentic Frankish name.  

Name Commentary

Aryanhwy: The LoI is unclear; did the client submit <Aregunda De Aire>, or did Keythong guess that this was the submitted name?  What name is on the submissions forms?  Morlet gives <Aregundis> (I:40,b) as the name actually found in Gregory of Tour's source; I believe <Aregunda> is the result of some incorrect modernization along the way, as third declension i-stem names do not generally change to first-declensionendings.  There is certainly other evidence that the names are at least partially modernized in the Medieval Source book.  The name shows up in the sentence "The king had seven sons by several wives; namely, by Ingunda, Gunthar, Childeric, Charibert, Gunthram, Sigibert, and a daughter Chlotsinda; by Aregunda, sister of Ingunda, Chilperic; and by Chunsina he had Chramnus."  <Gunthram>, <Charibert>, and <Sigibert> are clearly not the original forms of the names.  <Chunsina> and <Ingunda> aren't in Morlet, but <Chlodosinda> is found on I:133,b as the form actually found in the history.  Given that we don't have clear evidence that <Aregunda> is thecorrect Frankish form, this should be changed to <Aregundis>.  <de> should not be capitalized.  Gregory of Tour's "History of the Franks" is in the Medieval Sourcebook.  In book IX is the statement "In like manner king Childebert asserts his right from the present to Meaux and to twothirds of Senlis, Tours, Poitiers, Avranches, Aire, Saint Lizier, Bayonne, and Albi with their territories." Medieval Sourcebook: Gregory of Tours (539-594): History of the Franks: Books I-X (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/gregory-hist.html).  Again, I'm not sure how modernized this citation is, but I don't have any resources for early Frankish place names. 

 

3) Aryanhwy merch Catmael. Change of Registered Name from Aryanhwy Prytydes merch Catmael Caermyrdin

{Name reg’d 11/97}

She wishes to register a more authentic and less complex name. Jones, "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/welsh13.html) says: “The most typical overall structure for names is a given name followed by a single byname -- either a patronym (about half the time), a descriptive nickname (about a quarter of the time), an occupation (about one-tenth of the time), or a place-name (only one percent of the time).” By removing the complexity of my original name, the client believes that she is “going from something that was vanishingly unlikely to something that you could find in everyother person.” The submitter wants an authentic 11^th Century Welsh name.

She would like to keep her previously registered name, Aryanhwy Prytydes merch Catmael Caermyrdin, as an alternate.  

Name Commentary

Aryanhwy: This is not a new name, it is a new name change.  As all elements are currently registered to me, they need no further documentation per RfS II.5: "Once a name has been registered to an individual or group, the College of Arms may permit that particular individual or group to register elements of that name again, even if it is no longer permissible under the rules in effect at the time the later submission is made."  As there is no reason why this name would not still be registerable, if I had forwarded copies of the same documentation used to register this in the first place, this clause should cover my submission without a problem.  My previously registered name was registered 11/97 via the Middle.

If you'd like to add something, you can quote this from Tangwystyl's "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/welsh13.html):

"The most typical overall structure for names is a given name followed by a single byname -- either a patronym (about half the time), a descriptive nickname (about a quarter of the time), an occupation (about one-tenth of the time), or a place-name (only one percent of the time)."

By removing the complexity of my original name, I'm going from something that was vanishingly unlikely to something that you could find in everyother person. 

Rory: This is pretty much a no-brainer.  All she is doing is dropping two elements from her registered name.  Why she is taking up the space with the additional registration is beyond me -- she can use Aryanhwy merch Catmael without registering it separately.....but that's just me. 

 

4) Caterine le Marinier. New Name and Device. Per chevron argent and sable, two daggers in chevron and a lymphad under full sail counterchanged.

Caterine is found in Withycombe (186, under “Katharine”) and is described as the “usual Old French form.” Scott, “Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames” (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/reaneyintro.html) has Caterina dated to 1214, 1327, and 1381. He also has Katerine dated to 1437, 1450, and 1502. Caterine seems like a reasonable spelling variant. The heading “Mariner” in Reaney & Wilson (298) has le marinier [dated 1197], Meriner [dated 1211-23], le Mariner [dated 1228], and le Marner [dated 1327]. The variation of capitalization seems unexceptional in this case.

The client cares most about meaning.  

Name Commentary

Aryanhwy: Lovely name.  As early as the 14th century you start seeing women recorded with masculine forms of bynames, so <le Marinier> is fine for a woman.  <Caterina> is dated to 1214, 1327, and 1381 in Talan's index of feminine names in Reaney & Wilson (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/reaney.cgi?Katharine).  <Katerine> is dated to 1437, 1450, 1502, so <Caterine> is a reasonable spelling as well.  Reaney & Wilson s.n. Mariner have <le marininer> 1197 <Meriner> 1211-23, <le Mariner> 1228, and <le Marner> 1327.  Again, <le Marinier> is a reasonable extrapolation from these forms. 

Device Commentary

Pendar: No conflicts found through 11/02. 

Knut: Clear, including pile inverted. 

Lucien: I found no conflicts with this device. 

 

5) Constanza de Sevilla. New Device. Or, a fireball within a bordure embattled gules.

{Name reg’d 2/01}

The bordure needs to be fed a bit, but we believe it can be registered with an instruction to the client. 

Device Commentary

Aryanhwy: Her previous device, "Or, a grenade gules," was returned by Rouge Scarpe 11/00 for conflict.  Her name was registered 02/01. I found no conflicts with this redesign. 

Knut: A fireball Or is a bezant with four flames issuant from it in cross. WVS [50] [LoAR 13 Aug 81], p. 12 Precedents - Wilhelm, under FIREBALL

Parker shows this as an acceptable variant of a Fire-ball The bordure is a little thin.

Beartlaoi mac Mathghamhna - April of 2001 (via Atenveldt): Or, a grenade sable enflamed gules between three Celtic crosses sable, a bordure dovetailed gules. CD secondary crosses, probable CD for changing half of the primary's tincture. 

Pendar: No conflicts found through 12/02. 

Rory:  Name registered 2/01, original device (Or, a grenade gules) returned by Rouge Scarpe 11/00 (conflicts with Ian of Loch Naver (reg. 9/92) "Argent chape sable, a fireball gules enflamed proper."). 

        Draw the bordure bigger and bolder (says the man with an embattled bordure sable).  Make those bumps bumpier! 

 

6) Heinrich von Stuttgart. New Name and Device. Per Bend azure and checky Or and azure, a cross of four lozenges Or.

The client provides documentation from the New Encyclopedia Britannica 15^th edition for both Heinrich and Stuttgart. Heinrich der Löwe (aka Henry III of Saxony) lived 1129-1195, according to ibid (V: 850). The town of Stuttgart began in c950 as Stuotgarten, according to ibid (??: 337). Heinrich is also found some 27 times from 1263 to 1444 in Scott, “Medieval German Given Names from Silesia” (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/bahlow_v.htm). The client is most interested in registering a German name and requests an authentic Germanic name of an unspecified period. 

Name Commentary

Aryanhwy: <Heinrich> is found 27 times between 1263 and 1444 in Talan Gwynek's "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/bahlow/).  This is clear of Heinrich Jaeger von Stuttgart (reg. 12/90 via Atlantia) by removal of the element <Jaeger>.  While I did not find any bynames based on <Stuttgart> in any of my German references (I looked in Bahlow as well as four others), given that the city has been around for as long as it has, <von Stuttgart> is probably fine.  It would be nice to find an actual dated citation for the placename in period.  Stuttgart's web page (http://www.stgt.com/) in the history section (http://www.stgt.com/stuttgart/historye.htm) says "The earliest dated records of "Stuotgarten" are from the year 1229."  The page does not explicitly say when the spelling <Stuttgart> came into use. 

Device Commentary

Knut: Clarissa Elana de Perrenoud - June of 1981 (via Atlantia): (Fieldless) Four mascles conjoined in cross, pommetty at all joints, Or. Clarissa Elana de Perrenoud - June of 1981 (via Atlantia): Vert, four mascles conjoined in cross, pommetty at all joints, Or. CDs field, CDs for the voiding of the mascles.

Ian Bruce MacRae – January of 1983 (via Caid): Gyronny azure and gules, a key cross Or. A key cross looks like the Cross Cleche shown in Elvin plate 8, figure 39. CD field, no CD for arrangement, forced move.  I doubt that a variant of a cross cleche should get a CD from a cross of four lozenges. 

Pendar: No conflicts found through 12/02. 

 

7) Helene Gabrielle du Lac. New Badge. (Fieldless) In cross a spoon and a key fesswise reversed argent.

{Name reg’d 1/82}

{To Zacarias, Rory, and Knut: there is no question of conflict with Francis Owen Roderick Keith as there is one CD for fieldlessness and another for the addition of the key. No need to determine if forks and spoons are different.} 

Badge Commentary

Pendar: According to the SCA's default postures table at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/coagloss.html#table4 the spoon is in its default posture, but the key is not. It should be specified. (Fieldless) A spoon surmounted by a key fesswise reversed argent. Oddly enough, there is another fieldless badge with a key crossing a spoon, but it is not a conflict, just a curiousity: Stephen de Raymond (3/90 East): (Fieldless) In saltire, a key, wards to chief, and a spoon, bowl to chief, azure. No conflicts found through 11/02. 

Zacarias: By the precedent of Wilhelm: "The default position for a spoon is handle up. WVS [9] [LoAR 22 Jan 80], p. 8".  Therefore "palewise" is unnecessary but "inverted" must be added instead.

Since eating utensils are all in one category in the Ordinary, there should be no difference between a spoon and a fork; thus, the third badge conflicts with Francis Owen Roderick Keith: (Fieldless) A table fork palewise argent (reg'd 11/89 via the Outlands).  Only one CD for fieldlessness- not sure if being inverted could net another CD, but I doubt it.  The others seem clear. 

Knut: Francis Owen Roderick Keith - November of 1989 (via the Outlands): (Fieldless) A table fork palewise argent.

CD fieldless, I'd give a CD for fork vs spoon.

Clear 

Aryanhwy: Her name was registered as Helene Gabrielle du Lac without the accents in 01/82 via the Middle.  Blazon-fu: "(Fieldless) In cross a spoon and a key argent."  No conflicts found. 

Rory: (A Tick fan, I see :-)  "SPOON!")

Do we make a difference between a spoon and a fork?  They are both listed together in the Ordinary & Armorial (under Tools-Eating).  The Pic Dic mentions a "spurtle", a mix between a spoon and fork.  And the entries for each refer to the other. The position of the key & spoon should be specified so we know which portion of the cross is palewise and which is fesswise. 

Ælfreda:  According to the Glossary of Terms, Table 4: Conventional S.C.A. Default Postures "Key Fesswise, wards to dexter and facing downwards; when palewise, must be specified (wards to chief or wards to base)"

As such, this badge should be blazoned "(Fieldless) In cross, a spoon and a key reversed argent." 

Lucien: I found no conflicts with this device. The blazon should read (Fieldless) In cross a spoon and a key argent, as the lack of field is not part of the blazon. 

 

8) Helene Gabrielle du Lac. New Badge. (Fieldless) A spoon, overall four threaded needles in saltire points to center argent.

{Name reg’d 1/82}

{To Zacarias and Knut: there is no question of conflict with Francis Owen Roderick Keith as there is one CD for fieldlessness and another for the addition of the key. There is no need to determine if forks and spoons are different.} 

Badge Commentary

Pendar: The spoon is in its default posture. Blazon-fu: (Fieldless) A spoon surmounted by four threaded needles conjoined points to center argent. The only even remotely similar armory I could find was her device. No conflicts found through 11/02. 

Zacarias: By the precedent of Wilhelm: "The default position for a spoon is handle up. WVS [9] [LoAR 22 Jan 80], p. 8".  Therefore "palewise" is unnecessary but "inverted" must be added instead.

Since eating utensils are all in one category in the Ordinary, there should be no difference between a spoon and a fork; thus, the third badge conflicts with Francis Owen Roderick Keith: (Fieldless) A table fork palewise argent (reg'd 11/89 via the Outlands).  Only one CD for fieldlessness- not sure if being inverted could net another CD, but I doubt it.  The others seem clear. 

Knut: Clear 

Aryanhwy: Her name was registered as Helene Gabrielle du Lac without the accents in 01/82 via the Middle.  Blazon-fu: "(Fieldless) A spoon palewise, overall four threaded needs in saltire points to center argent."  No conflicts found. 

Rory: (A Tick fan, I see :-)  "SPOON!") 

        Do we make a difference between a spoon and a fork?  They are both listed together in the Ordinary & Armorial (under Tools-Eating).  The Pic Dic mentions a "spurtle", a mix between a spoon and fork.  And the entries for each refer to the other. 

Lucien: I found no conflicts with this device. Suggested new blazon: (Fieldless) A spoon palewise overall four threaded needles in saltire points to center argent. The lack of field is not part of the blazon, and the needles are in saltire (note the spelling). 

 

9) Helene Gabrielle du Lac. New Badge. (Fieldless) A spoon palewise argent.

{Name reg’d 1/82}

{To Zacarias and Rory: Here, the question of difference between spoon and fork becomes more critical. And the answer is that we don’t really know, so we’ll send it up and see what Laurel says.} 

Badge Commentary

Pendar: Again, the spoon is in its default posture. (Fieldless) A spoon argent. No conflicts found through 11/02. 

Zacarias: By the precedent of Wilhelm: "The default position for a spoon is handle up. WVS [9] [LoAR 22 Jan 80], p. 8".  Therefore "palewise" is unnecessary but "inverted" must be added instead.

  Since eating utensils are all in one category in the Ordinary, there should be no difference between a spoon and a fork; thus, the third badge conflicts with Francis Owen Roderick Keith: (Fieldless) A table fork palewise argent (reg'd 11/89 via the Outlands).  Only one CD for fieldlessness- not sure if being inverted could net another CD, but I doubt it.  The others seem clear. 

Knut: Clear 

Aryanhwy: Her name was registered as Helene Gabrielle du Lac without the accents in 01/82 via the Middle.  Blazon-fu: "(Fieldless) A spoon palewise argent."  No conflicts found. 

Rory: (A Tick fan, I see :-)  "SPOON!")

Do we make a difference between a spoon and a fork?  They are both listed together in the Ordinary & Armorial (under Tools-Eating).  The Pic Dic mentions a "spurtle", a mix between a spoon and fork.  And the entries for each refer to the other.

Consider (Fieldless) A table fork palewise argent (B: Francis Owen Roderick Keith - Nov 89).   If there is no difference between a spoon and fork, these would conflict.

 

Lucien: I found no conflicts with this device. The blazon should read (Fieldless) A spoon palewise argent, as the lack of field is not part of the blazon. 

 

{*) Ingrede Haustmyrkr Hrossbjarnardóttir. New Device. Azure, a duck wings elevated and addorsed argent, billed and membered Or.

{Name reg’d 3/93}

{This is being returned for conflict with Henry V of England ([Fieldless] A swan rousant wings addorsed argent ducally gorged and chained Or). There is one CD for the change to the field, but none between a duck (or a shoveller) and a swan. The gorging is also too small of a detail to make a difference.) 

Device Commentary

Pendar: I agree that the blazon should read "duck". It is a beautiful drawing! It is recognizable and fills the space well. Unfortunately it probably conflicts with Henry V of England (12/94 via Laurel): (Fieldless) A swan rousant wings addorsed argent ducally gorged and chained Or. Changing the tincture of the bill and feet is not worth difference. The collar and chain are too small to be worth difference and are considered to be maintained items. There is 1 CD for fielded vs. fieldless, but I doubt there will be a difference granted between a swan and a duck. I'd make that a Laurel call.

Another possible conflict with Helvig Ulfsdotter (1/98 Drachenwald): Azure, a duck rising wings elevated and addorsed and on a chief argent three shamrocks vert. Again, nothing for the bill and feet. 1 CD for removing the chief, but is there also one for removing the tertiAryfrom the chief? I would imagine that once the chief is gone the tertiary is irrelevant, but I don't recall. 

Knut: Azure, a duck wings elevated and addorsed argent, billed and membered Or.

Njall of Fur - Argent, three garbs azure. Nice device! The garbs were originally blazoned as oat-garbs. However, they are not clearly identifiable as any particular type of garb, and there is no apparent cant to be preserved, so they have been blazoned using the more general name for the charge. LoAR 09/02 A-East

A shoveller probably isn't well enough known to be kept in the blazon without some other reason to keep it.

Henry V of England - December of 1994 (via Laurel): (Fieldless) A swan rousant wings addorsed argent ducally gorged and chained Or. CD fieldless, There might be a CD between a swan which has a long neck

and this duck which has a short neck.  I didn't find any specific precedents on this since Elsbeth's Precedent on Birds.

Rorik Fredericsson - December of 1999 (via Atlantia): Azure, a grey goose volant bendwise wings addorsed proper gorged of a coronet Or. CD fieldless, possible CD tincture, possible CD type - see comment

above.

Pass it up. 

Aryanhwy: This likely conflicts with Janeta Baily (reg. 04/00 via Artemisia), "Azure, a dove rising wings elevated and addorsed argent within a bordure indented Or," with just one CD for the bordure. 

Rory: A duck is a duck is a duck....unless there is a personal or canting reason for using "shoveller", I agree with Escutcheon that this should be reblazoned as "a duck". 

Ælfreda:  From "A Glossary of Terms Used in Heraldry" by James Parker (online edition) "The sholarde, or shoveller(anas clypeata) may be distinguished by two small tufts of feathers, one on the back of the head, another on ther [sic] breast."

According to the Precedents of Elsbeth "[Per bend sinister gules and azure, a swan naiant contourny and a sun Or] Conflict with ... Per bend sinister gules and azure, two owls contourny Or. While there is a CD between a swan and an owl, there is not the substantial difference between the two birds needed for X.2 to hold. Therefore, there is but a single CD for a change of type of the primary charges. [Anne Mary Quinn, 11/00, R-An Tir]"

There is possible conflict with Henry V of England (SCA reg 12/94) "(Fieldless) A swan rousant wings addorsed argent ducally gorged and chained Or" and Rorik Fredericsson (reg 12/99) "Azure, a grey goose volant bendwise wings addorsed proper gorged of a coronet Or."  There is one CD for changing the type of the primary, but not enough for complete change of primary.  We are unsure if the posture of the wings, and/or the addition of the maintained charges, is sufficient for a second CD.  (In the case of Rorik, we are assuming there is no CD between grey goose proper and argent.) 

Lucien: My suggested blazon: Azure, a duck rising wings elevated and addorsed argent, billed and membered Or, changing shoveller to duck and adding the rising, which is what the duck is doing. I’m unclear as to whether or not this posture would conflict with volant bendwise. If so, then there is a conflict with Rorik Fredericsson: Azure, a grey goose volant bendwise wings addorsed proper gorged of a coronet Or. (Dec ’99-Atlantia). 

 

{*) Lancelot of Windhaven. New Badge. (Fieldless) An ermine spot sable.

{Name reg’d 1/01}

{This is being returned for direct conflict with Daimhín Sinna, who registered this exact same emblazon in June 2002.} 

Badge Commentary

Pendar: Direct conflict with Daimhín Sinna (06/02, Æthelmearc) (Fieldless) An ermine spot sable. 

Knut: Clear 

Aryanhwy: No conflicts found, lovely badge! 

Rory: No conflict found – WOW! A couple of close ones, but no direct conflict found. 

Lucien: This is a direct conflict with Daimhín Sinna: (Fieldless) An ermine spot sable. (Jun ’02-Æthelmearc). 

 

10) Melisandia verch Thomas. New Name. {and Device. Quarterly azure and argent, a dragon passant gules.}

Both name elements are found in Jones, "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/welsh13.html). The client will NOT accept MAJOR changes and cares most about having a name that means “Millicent daughter of Thomas.” She would like to have an authentic 12^th to 14^th century Welsh name.

{The device is being returned for conflict with Wales (Per fess argent and vert, a dragon passant gules) and the House of Tudor ([Fieldless] A dragon passant gules). In either case, there is only one difference for the change to the field.} 

Name Commentary

Aryanhwy: Name is excellent.  

John: Milisandia: Hard to come up with this particular name in Welsh annals, although my pal Heather Rose Jones managed. It’s a variant of Millicent.

Thomas: see Morgan and Morgan (197); Rowlands (154); Conway (215); Norman (180, 186); one of most common names in Wales between 700-1542. 

Device Commentary

Pendar: It's not a "possible" conflict with Wales, as noted on the ILoI, it is a _definite_ conflict with Wales (12/94 via Laurel): Per fess argent and vert, a dragon passant gules. Only 1 CD for changes to the field.

as well as

Tudor, House of (12/94 via Laurel): (Fieldless) A dragon passant gules.1 CD for fielded vs. fieldless, but that's all.

and with Thomas ap Thomas (1/73): Gurges azure and argent, a dragon passant gules grasping in the dexter forepaw an axe vert. 1 CD for changes to the field, nothing for the maintained axe. 

Zacarias: In addition to conflicting with the flag of Wales, as suggested by Escutcheon, the device also conflicts with the badge of the House of Tudor: (Fieldless) A dragon passant gules. 

Knut: Wales - December of 1994 (via Laurel): Per fess argent and vert, a dragon passant gules. Tudor, House of - December of 1994 (via Laurel): (Fieldless) A dragon passant gules. Single CDs for field/fieldless.

Definite conflicts. 

Aryanhwy: Unfortunately, the device does conflict with the arms of Wales, as cited.  She could, however, have "Quarterly azure and argent, in bend sinister two dragons passant gules" if she wanted; these look clear. 

Rory: Minor design note - the fess line and the dragon should be centered more. 

Ælfreda:  We agree, conflict with Wales. 

Lucien: I am in agreement with Escutcheon that this device is a possible conflict with the flag of Wales: Per fess argent and vert, a dragon passant gules. I count one CD, for changing the field. 

 

11) Onóra Refsdóttir. New Device. Per fess sable and argent, two lozenges gules fimbriated argent and a fox passant gules.

{Name submitted on 1/03 MK LoI}

{We are mindful of Pendar’s point about fimbriated charges needing to be centered, however, we feel that if there were three lozenges in this design, that these top two lozenges would be considered as in the center. Given that this could be a close call, we are prone to send it up to Laurel to decide.}

Device Commentary

Aryanhwy: Her name was forwarded to Laurel as Onóra Refsdóttir on the 01/03 ELoI.  I would reblazon this simply as "Per fess sable and argent, two lozenges gules fimbriated argent and a fox passant gules."All the charges could be drawn larger, but I don't believe this is a significant enough problem to require returning it.  I found no conflicts Knut: The charges, especially the lozenges, should be larger.  It is uncertain whether the the lozenges are coprimary or secondary.  The fimbriation is also too thin. 

Pendar: [returning a chevron ... between three Latin crosses...fimbriated] This is being returned for the fimbriated crosses. According to RfS VIII.3 Voiding and fimbriation may only be used with simple geometric charges placed in the center of the design. The crosses are not in the center of the design. (Michael die Zauberzunge von Essen, 4/99 p. 18)

The same would apply to the lozenges in this device. 

Rory: Name accepted by R.S. 1/03 

        Make the charges bigger -- fill the space! 

Ælfreda:  From the Glossary of Terms, Table 3: Conventional "Proper" Colorings

"Fox Red with black "socks" and white at tip of tail     Color "

The color picture, on the website, has a fox sans socks.  (There are lines, however, where the top of the socks would be.)  As colored, it is "gules, marked argent" instead of "proper". 

 

{*) Shih Tan Po. New Name and Device. Sable, a wheel enflamed Or in chief two natural tigers couchant respectant proper.

{The name is being returned for reconsideration by the client and better documentation. We are enclosing some detailed commentary by one of our staff which seems to indicate that the name might be registerable, but is unlikely at best and presumptuous at worst. Far more of concern is the lack of an adequate summary of the name. This has been cause for return by Laurel and administrative return by Escutcheon. Documentation for a name must be capable of being accurately and succinctly summarized as most of the commentators will not be able to see the attached documents. Should the client, upon considering the comments made by Zacarias, still wish to submit this name as is, we urge him to provide us with a summary of no more than 200 words which explains why the name is a documentably period Mandarin Chinese name. This will allow us to better serve him in getting it registered as we do not possess the expertise in house to summarize the documentation provided.}

{To all: We will be attaching Zacarias’s comments verbatum to the return.}

{The device is being returned for redrawing. As drawn, the tigers are orange with black stripes. Since March 1997, we have not registered “Bengal tigers proper.” The decision reads: “We are also no longer going to register Bengal tigers proper. They must be in a standard, heraldic tincture (with or without markings). We have registered as proper both gules and Or Bengal tigers, leaving them with no default tincture. Plain natural tigers proper, are still Or, marked sable.”  In order to maintain the current motif, the tigers would need to be Or (yellow) with black stripes.}  

Name Commentary

Zacarias: I send the following information regarding this month's submission of the name "Shih Tan Po" as a basic introduction to Chinese naming.  Since not many Midrealm heralds know much about it, I figured some context would help the College make a more educated decision about the name.  I'm also hoping the client's local herald will be able to use this information to more fully inform the submitter.

Much of the information I'll be summarizing is from Gabriel report #2346, but much of it is also my personal knowledge, from a variety of sources that I no longer have as well as my own understanding of the culture.

Lady Angharad was also kind enough to provide me with the Hanzi (characters) that the client included as documentation.

I'll start out with the surname, Shih.  I'll be writing it in the Pinyin, <Shi3> (pronounced /shr/ or voiced /s/, falling-rising inflection).  The chineseroots.com website which the client cited describes the surname <Shi3> as being in use well before our period.  Legend places it at the mid-third millenium BC; concrete records have it back to at least 722 BC, with other examples in various other times ranging up to the late Ming Dynasty (AD 1368-1644).  The character means "history," and the etymology given by that website seems likely.  "Shih" is listed as a common transliteration, though it's not Pinyin (I don't know Wade-Giles).

So the surname seems fine.  Now the given name, Tan Po.  Now, Chinese given names come in four basic types.  The first is the birth-name, which Gabriel calls a Ming.  The second is the familiar-name, which Gabriel

calls a Tzu.  These names were chosen for their meanings and sound from any existing syllables in the language.  Most common were desirable attributes, but occasionally names were chosen purely for their sound. Even if the meaning was not the reason for the name, however, it was always considered.  Homophones were also important considerations, and homophones are extremely common in Chinese.  For example, a hypothetical name might be <zhu1 you2>.  Even if the parents thought it sounded pretty, and had a nice meaning ("like a pearl"), no parent would give it to their child because it is a homophone of "lard."

The third type of given name is the earned-name, which Gabriel calls a Hao.  These were nicknames or epithets which the individual acquired, usually later in life.  Very few people would use a Hao as their primary form of address; such people were almost always very high-status and generally older.  Use of a name like this borders on SCA definition of presumption, except in rare circumstances (the recent submission of "Alfred Gatebreaker" might be such a name; I would have no problem letting someone register a Hao of <Nong4 Men2> "Break Gate" to someone who'd earned such a nickname).  Even in such cases, the choice to use a Hao as a primary name should be made carefully- it's uncommon and kind of arrogant.

The fourth type of name, Gabriel does not mention, because it's not really a name the way Westerners think of them.  That would be the relationship-name, the equivalent of our "Uncle Bob."  These kinds of names were used more frequently than we use them- your female cousin on your father's side who is the youngest after you would be addressed as such in lieu of using their first name.  This can be done succinctly, of course- all that information would be simply <Yi1 Tang2 Biao3 Mei4>. This kind of name would be inappropriate for registration, since only one person would ever use it for you.  Lower-class families would occasionally use a variant: their first son might be name "first son" <Da4 Er2> (literally "big son"), but these took a very specific form and would not be used for an upper-class persona, as SCAdians style themselves.

Now, to deal with the actual submission:

The first part of the client's given name is Tan.  <Tan2> means "to talk, to chat, to discuss."  A perfectly valid word to use as a name.  The client should probably be aware that it's a homophone with a different but very similar character, meaning "phlegm, sputum,"  but it's uncommon enough that native speakers probably wouldn't pick up on it.

The second part is Po.  <Bo2> means "father's elder brother" or "oldest brother."  Here's the problem.  This word would generally only be used as a relationship-name, -never- as a Ming or Tzu.  It is possible, theoretically, for it to be used as a Hao- perhaps the client made a famous diplomatic arrangement with someone named <Bo2>, or was the honorary oldest brother of the <Tan2> clan, or some such, but not only would such a scenario be unlikely, there remain my earlier warnings against using Hao as primary names.  Not to mention, I doubt that's what the client had in mind.  (I also assume the client is male or wanted a male name; if not, this should be returned.)

So, to sum up: the name is possible, and as such could be submitted to Laurel.  It is, however, extremely unlikely and somewhat arrogant, and probably not what the client had in mind.  I therefore suggest either that it be sent on, with a note to the submitter as to the possible implications and problems, or that it be pended so that the client can give permission to send it on after being so informed. 

Device Commentary

Pendar: No conflicts found through 11/02. 

Zacarias: The unusual coloration of the flames concerned me.  I turned up the following precedent from Alisoun:

"After much consideration (and several examinations of the emblazon), there seemed to be insufficient contrast between the argent blade of the sword and the Or flames that surround it. Both the blade and the flames are major design elements and, unfortunately, the argent fades into the Or to such an extent that the sword appears to be bladed of flames Or: making the flames proper would resolve the problem. (LoAR 26 Apr 87, p. 11)"

  And another from Da'ud (2nd tenure, first part):

"[Returning Gules, on a flame the blade of a sword Or, winged argent, a bordure Or semy of roses sable.] The sword loses its identifiability against the "flames" of the same tincture. (One commenter noted its resemblance to a chain saw.) Were the flames drawn larger (and less regularly) and made proper to increase the contrast, this would probably accep le. [2/94, p.17]"

  But also a second from Da'ud (2-2):

"The charge as emblazoned could be better blazoned as on a flame a lizard gules.  However, such a blazon demonstrates the main problem with the emblazon; the primary charge is a large, irregular blob, and the identifiability of the creature on the flames is impossible at any distance because both it and the flames are the same tincture.  (See RfS VII.7.a. "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance." and VIII.2. "All armory must have sufficient contrast to allow each element of the design to be clearly identifiable at a distance.")  Were it to be redrawn in a more standard depiction (with only 1/2 to 1/3 the amount of flame as a number of gouts of flame issuant from rather than completely surrounding the lizard), it would probably be acceptable.  (Giulietta da Firenze, 4/96 p. 20) "

  Since the most recent of these three suggest that it is possible for an enflamed charge to be identifiable even if the flame and the charge are the same color, Tan Po's device should be acceptable: the unique shape of the wheel, being interior, is unobscured by the flames.  While it would benefit from the standard depiction (either in shape or in coloration), the current design seems clear enough to send on. 

Knut: Oriana of Bonwicke. Device. Argent, a chevron azure between two natural tigers passant guardant addorsed proper and a rose gules slipped and leaved vert seeded Or.

The tigers were blazoned as natural tigers on the LoI. Natural tigers, proper, are Or, marked sable. These tigers were actually orange, marked sable. We considered reblazoning them Bengal tigers proper. However, there is no readily understood proper coloration for Bengal tigers; we have blazoned as proper both red and yellow Bengal tigers, (see cover letter), and there was some confusion among the commenters as to what color the tigers really were. Therefore, orange tigers are not acceptable for use in the SCA. LoAR 3/97 R-Ansteorra

Clear if the tigers are drawn Or marked sable. 

Aryanhwy: From the precedents of Jaelle: "We are also no longer going to register Bengal tigers proper. They must be in a standard, heraldic tincture (with or without markings). We have registered as proper both gules and Or Bengal tigers, leaving them with no default tincture. Plain natural tigers proper, are still Or, marked sable. (Cover Letter 3/97)".  The colored mini online looks to have the tigers orange.  This needs to be returned for them to be redrawn as Or, marked sable.  (Gules, of course, would violate the rule of tincture). 

Ælfreda:  On the color copy of the device, as shown on the web page, the tigers look "orange" to us.  (Definitely not the same tincture as the Or wheel.)

From the Precedents of Jaelle of Armida:  "[returning natural tigers proper] The tigers were blazoned as natural tigers on the LoI. Natural tigers, proper, are Or, marked sable. These tigers were actually orange, marked sable... orange tigers are not acceptable for use in the SCA. (Oriana of Bonwicke, 3/97 p. 11)"

Return for redrawing. 

 

 

Done by my hand this 7^th day of April, 

Paul Wickenden of Thanet, Rouge Scarpe 

Paul W Goldschmidt

3071 Cimarron Trail

Madison WI 53719

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