I called Bailey's, and talked with the service manager (Louie). At first he claimed he was not aware of any problem with your car. Then when I mentioned the information on the net, he suddenly remembered in detail your situation. His position was that you were just a "young kid" trying to get something for nothing. And that this car was a high mileage car and this kind of problem are normal and not their fault.
Based on what information you have documented on your web site, and my conversation with Bailey; my gut feeling is that they certainly should have be able to assume more responsibility then they offered. Please keep me updated on what happens. Also, I would like to see any documentation you have so I will feel confident to pursue this further.
SH
(editor note: I just want to point out for the record that I am 33 years old and my days of being a "young kid" are but a memory now. I vote in every election, paid all my college loans in full, pay my taxes and work hard for a living. I never expect "something for nothing" but when I make a mistake in life, I make good on it and somehow make it right, I expect a company like Paul Bailey and Ford Motors to do the same. -brad)
Brad, I feel your pain. My family too, has also dealt with Paul Bailey's and we were unsatisfied to say the least. The only advice I can give you is.. TALK TO A LAWYER...and also....talk to as many people as you can. Get other Paul Bailey's customers with similar complaints....file a lawsuit and let the courts hear your story. I can almost guarantee you that YOU will prevail in one way or another. No logically thinking individual could disagree with you and your complaint. Well, Good Luck, and 'sock it to em'
JG
An interesting tale of woe. I assume this is the 3.8 v6 that did this, and that you are aware that Ford recalled all these cars starting in 1993 for head gasket failure, but for purposes of saving money, they decided to not offer it to owners of earlier cars. In fact it took them six months to admit that the same engine in the mustang should be covered. They are offering $4000 to owners of these cars if they buy a new Ford, or will repair the cars.
SC
(editors note- I have heard about this and am researching why the 92 cars were not included. I assumed that the engines were the same in the 92 and the 93 so I cannot understand why the 92 is not included).
�
Hi Brad,
Go to the website address: www.clarkhoward.com
and click on April 26 notes. I think you may be interested in
what they have to say concerning defective Ford head gaskets.
JD
We were just looking at buying a Ford Escort wagon, but think we're going to stick with Toyota or Honda.
My husband has a 1991 Toyota 4 runner
and in 1998 the engine blew up at 108,000 miles. Toyota replaced
the engine free of charge and even paid for towing the truck into
the dealership. There had been some problems with this particular
engine and they were taking care of any trucks with milage up
to100,000 miles, even with 108,000+ miles on our truck the company
took care of the problem. Good business-you bet. I'm ready for
a new car and I'm pretty sure I'll
stick with Toyota and forgo the Escort.
BP
I read your nightmare story about the troubles
you had with your engine. i must say the motor problem is identical
to what mine did. Iam still looking for a motor for my 1990 taurus.
I live in Akron,Ohio and i am having a very difficult time finding
a motor for this car. The body is mint. I kept it up really good,
it's just the ongoing problems with the motor. Good luck to you,
- M -
I have also recently been dealing with
the customer friendly ha ha Ford Motor Company. I recieved on
May 13, 2000 a recall letter from ford about a head gasket problems
in certain Ford vehicles. I have a '95 mustang but the recall
also mentioned other vehicles such as thunderbirds, windstars,
and yes also the taurus. I was curios after reading your story
if you were aware of the recall due to the faulty head gaskets.
I had just started to have overheating and loss of coolant problems
with my car and was glad to be having it fixed, however I've now
been 3 days without my car, ford has refused to give me a loaner
or to tell me when I'll have it back. I am a single mom and a
student and have already spent 150 dollars in taxi fair getting
back and forth. I have made numerous calls to the ford head quarters
but I am put off and read to from a manual the same lines every
time I call. I continuosly ask to speak with a supervisor but
there is always no one available and I am told they will return
my call within 24 to 48 hours it has now been 3 days and I have
heard from no one. I appreciate your website and your struggle.
Good Luck!
MG
You can see how important it is to save
those minor maintance receipts that most of us never do. I am
in disbelief of the way your complaint was handled and would like
like to see resolved on a positive note. I would have thought
that the manufacture would stand behind you in some way. I am
wondering if there is some kind of lemon law that takes affect
here? Please keep us posted even though I am in NJ I am supportive
of you. If theres any other
way I can help you email at *****
Good Luck, AW
Brad, my name is ****, and I live in
Kansas. I bought a 93, mercury sable with 62,000 miles only three
weeks ago. I bought it from a person I knew, who was the sole
owner of the car. I had the car eight days, when I was driving
along on the interstate and the engine light came on. The car
overheated and the engine blew! I'm in the same sort of problem
as you, except I have a bank loan that isn't even due yet. I'm
having to rent a car to get back and forth to work and my finances
are exhausted. I have no idea what to do. They tell me a new engine,
plus labor will cost me $3,000. From my research, 3.8 engines
have been causing people around the states considerable problems
with head gaskets and overheating. What do I do?
I'm a single parent and this is really causing me major, major
problems. Let me know what you think, because I'm at the last
of suggestions as to what I can do.
Thanks for listening.
ML
If I had some time right now, I would
tell you the stories I've gone through with Ford Motor Company
vehicles. It's totally unreal. But for now, I really sympathize
with everything that you've gone through with your taurus. I bought
the first year of the taurus' and regreted it tremendously. AND
a few more fords since, I might add. Please feel free at any time
to write, but when I can, I will write back to you when I have
more time to fill you in on MY experiences with FORD vehicles.
My heart goes out to you........
Sincerely,
BG
Just wanted to let you know that you
are not alone in dealing with shoddy car dealerships... won't
tie up your time with my story, since i'm sure you are getting
a lot of interesting reply mails. However, i have learned one
thing about businesses; once you have purchased the product, you
are on your own. It is much easier for a dealership to pass you
off and focus on selling that next car. May I suggest a Honda?
Our Prelude just hit 185,000 miles, and
has never been in the shop for anything but a paint job.
DB
I have had a horrible experience with Jim O'Neil Ford in Sellersburg Indiana, they told me my Mustang needed a whole \ new clutch in it and had two other auto places check it out and it was fine. I know it's nothing like you have had but I am now through with Ford's. I own a 1985 Toyota Supra and it has 250,000 miles on it and still running great. I also own a 1994 4X4 Toyota Pickup, I have had nothing but great service from Toyota.
Toyota's are very reliable, I recommend everyone to go with TOYOTA..Take Care,
M
I own a 1993 Ford Thunderbird with a 3.8L V6. I just had the pleasure of finding out the both of the head gaskets have blown and caused damage to the heads and camshaft. I bought the vehicle used and have a little over 70,000 miles on it. My mechanic says that it is or is becoming a common problem with this motor. He says the factory gaskets only have holes on one edge restricting the flow of coolant on the other side of the head. This causes heat build up eventually causing damage. I didn't notice in your letter if we have the same engine. I would appreciate knowing if we have the same engine or not. It sure sounds as if we have a similar problem. Perhaps we can be of help to each other.
AB
i owned a 1994 taurus with a 2.8 liter engine. ford replaced the head gasket at 90,000 miles. it went again at 105,000 and no one would back it. not the dealer, not ford. i will never buy another ford product again.
BM
Thats very sad to hear. I had a used car like that one time, thought i was getting the deal of a lifetime, turned out to be a junker. I hope everything works out for you. I was always told growing up stay away from fords, worst cars you could ever buy. I just recently bought a 94 toyota corolla, best vehicle i have ever owned. The only cars i will ever buy again are toyota or honda. I would take this guys company o court, you have substanial evidence to back up your claim. Hope everything works out for the best.]
Sincerley
CM
Dear Brad,
I happened to come across your website as I was looking for information on car engines. Needless to say, I myself just bought a Ford Escort and am going through the same problem. The difference being..I've had my car 2 weeks...and the dealership (V.I.P. Auto Sales) is telling me I need a new engine, because ~I~ drove it hot. Which to me, makes NO sense. Why would anyone knowingly drive a car that is overheated?? Yet..apparently I did do this... and therefore my engine has been burnt out and I need a new engine. Now..I'm beginning to wonder..if it's just the dealership themselves...or if it's Ford completely. Now..they are willing to replace the engine for $1000, but they want $300 of it upfront. And I've already spent $300 in brake repairs ( I did this in less than a week of owning the car.) Now..it's a 1990, a used car, but according to the dealership the last owner... was an old lady. (Which is obvious in the milege on the car. Only 25,000) . Though instead of complaining and continueing to deal with the dealership, I'm going to get some advice from a lawyer. See what they think. Because it is in my opinion... that the dealership has bullshitted me with this information. As it is also in my opinion...that you got just as screwed as I am right now.
Sincerely,
CF
I came across your story while surfing
about car stuff. I just wanted to tell u that your not alone.
I worked at a ford dealership for 5 years as a tech. The 3.8L
engine and the car itself is the worst car ever made in my eyes.
I have done more headgaskets and entire sable rebuilds than i
ever wanted to. All the problems that u went through with your
sable has happend to more people than i can imagine. Thats why
the dealership wont fix it for free, because they know that its
not there fault that the engine is a junk. The truth is that the
product is at fault. So my advise to u is to take it to court
and never bye a ford product ever again and u will be a happier
person.
-H-
Dear Mr. Clement,
I have had the same experience with my ford Taurus in Aug. 99.
My car overheated without warning of an engine light. My engine
needed to be replaced. I was lucky enough to have a friend working
at a local dealership and was able to get it replaced free of
charge. We were told that this was a result of a recall on the
engine coolant. You may want to call the Ford Dealership and
ask about all recalls on ford taurus vehicles.
We are now experiencing more problems. Not sure what the problem is. We are bringing it in this week to get it checked and I can let you know what the results are.
WH
Hi, my name is **** and I work at a
Ford Dealership in Michigan and I find your story quite interesting.
Since I do work for Ford I cannot believe that they did not know
the exact cause of the coolant in te oil. If it had been your
head gaskets leaking that bad you would have had a very large
white cloud following you around.
I am assuming that you didn't, so it could be that your engine
block is cracked.
I did not see where you described that
they checked your timing cover, which is well known to all Ford
shops, for possible leaks ( they are made out of aluminum, which
without coolant system maintnence like to rott away, remember
your science class, two dissimilar, with water or acid (( which
your coolant is comprised of)) will corrode).
I am not defending this dealership in any way, shape or form,
they should be a little more understanding but you also have to
realize that without any service record from the previous owner
you cannot be 100% sure of the Taurus'
maintnence. Remember it may look like a cherry but could be a
lemon in disguise, what I am saying is when looking for a used
car always have a qualified and certified technician inspect the
vehicle If you do bring this letter up to anyone it would be greatly
appreciated if my name was not present on it.
Sincerly,
**
Unfortunately I do have a similiar story.
We purchased a used 93 Ford Taurus Stationwagon about 4 years
ago. Within one year of purchasing it my wife noticed a rough
running problem. Took it to the dealer to find that the engine
was damaged due to overheating. She had not noticed a high temperature
reading, the only other sign we saw was that the exhaust pipe
was producing a large quantity of whiter than normal smoke. Ofcourse
the dealer did not come up with an explanation as to how this
all happened other than the fact that we must have let the antifreeze
level drop and that caused the overheating. We ended up replacing
the engine with a "rebuilt" to the tune of about $3500.
They did give us a 36000 mile warranty supposedly "at cost".
The car has been running ok for the last couple years until recently
we noticed some difficulty getting heat in the winter. We recently
took it in and after dye test etc... dealer again can not find
the problem and has no explanation as to why the engine coolant
is down. Do you know of any other websites regarding Ford engine
problems? I am contemplating a letter or meeting with my dealer
to discuss, would like to get as many of the facts together as
possible.
-RM-
(editors note: I will be adding a link site very soon)
there has been a problem with 3. litter ford motors for quite some time know . i know this because i work for a ford dealership for 16 yrs. now ford has upgraded warenty on 3.8 headgaskets to 7yrs or 100k because they know ther is A problem and they are athorizing ford dealer to get motors where ever the can because ford remanufacters cant keep up with all the motors being put in . i feel sorry for you because that is not how all dealership work .most dealers stand behind there work FOR 90 DAY AND 12MONTH OR 12K ON PARTS THAT FORD WILL COVER PECAUSE OF FAILED PART WARANTEE I WOULD SUGEST THAT YOU CONTACT THE BETTER BISSNES BUERU AND TRY TO RESOLVE THAT WAY . IF YOU REPAIR THE CAR SAVE ALL YOUR RECIEPT FOR COURT BECAUSE REGRETFULLY THATY IS PROBBLY WHAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE
SINCERLY
-S-
Hi ! I had almost the exact thnign happen
with my Windstar and am searching for help in getting Ford to
reimburse me for the 3000$ i had to shell out for a new engine
on my van. I had replaced the head gaskets at about 45000 miles
( ford replaced at no charge) I went out to my car after work
the van instantly overheats and the engine died..I waited a minute
then drove my car 1 block to my mechanic and noticed the coolant
coming from the tail pipe. After Ford fixed the head gaskets..about
6 months later I am driving down the road and noticed the oil
light on and a few miles later I decide to exit and the engine
died and I hear a load noise. Well to make a long story short
my mechanic imforms me my engine is blown due to a bad oil regulator
and oil pump...( the oil completly fell from the engine) he stated
that the antifreeze flowing through my engine when the head gaskets
blew was what he believed to be what caused the damage. Well
Ford refuses to take any resposibity...surprise surprise! so your
story sounds a little famliar so if you can give me any tips on
how to proceed with Ford i would greatly appreciate it. Needless
to say we are getting rid of the van ASAP because of other problems
I am afraid will happen in the future.( transmission and brakes
have been another notable defects with these models)
Thank you for your story and web site I dont feel so alone
-JQ-
Hi, Brad! H*** here. I started searching for complaints on automobiles and yours was the first I looked at. Hang in there and do the best that you can and please keep me posted for I am having a similar problem with my Subaru SVX and its transmission which has been major overhauled since brand new, has been back to the shop at least 4 times within a 4 yr period of time and covered by the warranty. Subaru was kind enough to give me a loaner twice but now say the car is out of the 3 yr warranty. My warranty book states that the power train warranty is for 5 yrs/50,000 miles. I have 34,000 plus. I was told by an experienced service writer at the same dealers that Subaru should put a new transmission in it but he felt that Subaru was using my car as a "test bed". Also Subaru said no transmissions were available for my car. Can you believe that, a 1995 car only 3yrs old and no trans. Plus they had to order all the parts from somewhere in order the rebuild the entire trans. Each time it took them over a month to repair my car, with one occassion, according to the AES/ASE(not sure which) mechanic said the "tolerances were not correct with two of the parts and caused the car to break down when they test drove it "AFTER" the repair. To this day they have my car(over a week) because they are waiting for a part to be "machined" and they can't just have the machine line shut down until they finish producing the parts they are working on. Real good for a car, still under warranty. Anyway, hang in there, keep me posted, and above all keep your cool. I'll keep you posted on my end and maybe some of the things I will be doing to seek a remedy will help you.
HB
brad,
I admire the effort and standing up to " the big guy"
. I myself had a ford ( nasty) Torrus at one time also . the day
i picked up my plates for the car i asked the sales person "
should the engine tick?" sales guy " ya its just the
engine breaking in" more like the engine breaking if you
ask me. so at the first oil change i asked the service about the
tick
and what the sales person had said. he was appalled! turns out
they had to do some work on the engine, well to make a long story
short they finally agreed to replace the engine after 3 years
of "fixing" it. turns out some engines were faulty from
the get go. best of luck! hang in there!
KA
i would get a lawer , and sue, in va.
we have a limon law:......after 4 times you get a new car , or
repairs, contact a tv station , and put limons , all over the
car, this has been, done here ,in Roanoke ,VA.. T V .STATIONS
LOVE IT. call all tv stations and tell them of ,the protest """""""""""""""""
EW
�
Dear Brad,
I also am an owner of a Ford. A 96 Probe. Since this past November,
my car has been in the dealer- 2 different dealers in MD, 6 times.
We are experiencing similar problems, but with only 54,000 miles,
and still another year's worth of payments. The check engine
light comes on and then the car won't start. We have it towed
to the dealer and it starts. They can't find the problem, although
they replaced a sensor in Dec. and the same sensor again in Feb.
They also tried to charge me for it again, thank goodness I had
the receipt, because they had no record of the work being done
at the
other Ford dealership. I do have an ESP for 6 yrs. or 75,000
and still can't get anywhere. When contacting Ford directly they
tell me I have to request a Ford engineer to come out through
the dealer. The dealer tells me that they can do that, but Ford
doesn't respond. That's just Ford's way of getting me off the
phone. I too have sent an email to the owner of the dealership
and have not gotten any response. As I write this email my car
sits in the garage of the dealer. They want to keep it a few
days to see if they can "get it to act up." In the
meanwhile I am paying for a rental car. If it turns out they
find the problem and it's covered under my ESP then they'll cover
the rental- FAT CHANCE! I can sympathize with you because of
what I've been through. When I get my car back I think I'm going
to sell it. I hate to stick someone else with the problem, but
I have to have a car to get to work. I have approx. a 50 minute
commute each way. I need a car that WILL START!!! Good luck
to you!!! I will never buy another FORD. I'm going to buy another
Toyota, that was the best car I've ever had.
DB
An interesting engine problem. I'm curious, is the engine block aluminum with a cast iron head, a cast iron block with an alum head, a 4 cylinder or a v-6, front wheel drive or rear wheel drive? Or maybe an all alum engine?
I've had 3 cars with aluminum blocks and 2 of them had to be replaced. No more alum blocks for me.
On the Cadillac with alum engines, to warn of an overheating problem, in addition to the temp sensor that samples coolant temperature, they have one that bolts on to the back of one cylinder head. When it goes off it blasts you with a loud aural warning.
Good luck
E. O
PLEASE RETURN MY E-MAIL I AM A MECHANIC
& I WAS WONDING DID THEY REPLACE YOUR
HEADS WHEN THEY REPLACED YOUR HEAD GASKET IF NOT YOUR CAR MAY
HAVE CRACKED A
HEAD THAT IS A COMMON PROBLEM WITH 3.8L V-6"S IF THAT IS
WHAT YOU HAVE, THEN
THE FORD DEALER SHOULD PUT NEW HEADS & HEAD GASKETS ON YOUR
CAR, THERE IS
ALOT OF 3.8's THAT BLOW THE HEAD GASKETS & SOMETIMES THIS
WILL CALL THE HEAD
TO CRACK OR ERODE
-L-
Hey Brad
I can understand what you are going though. I purchased a Ford
Ranger in 1997. The truck was brand-new 7 miles on it. I purchased
it from a dealer in Florida. The first thing that happen was oil
started coming out of the dust cap on the right front tire. So
I took it back to the dealer. they fixed it. Then about 3 weeks
later I notices a leak coming from under the truck. took truck
back to dealership they said it was the power steering pump that
was leaking. They fixed. Then about a month later I notices a
ticking sound coming from inside the cab of the truck when I turned
on the fan for the a/c.
Took truck back into dealer they fixed it, they said that it was
a bad fan motor. Then the a/c o rings went bad. then the brakes
drums went bad I had that truck in the shop some many times that
I can't count. I tried talking to the manager of the dealership
and with ford motor company, but they both didn't care about me.
I tried to explain about all of the days I spent at the dealership
waiting for my new truck to be repair. but no one seemed to care.
I finally after about a year of living hell with that truck. I
sold it for almost nothing, so I could finely have some peace.
I will never buy a Ford product again
I wish you lots of luck.
SD
Just finished reading your Paul Bailey
story. I live in Indiana so I obviously can't boycott the dealership
but it should wake someone up at Ford Motor CO. realizing that
someone other than there customer service rep can read and respond
to your nightmare. Many of us have been in the same boat to a
greater or lesser degree. I had a similar situation with a new
Chevy I owned. I lost. They made me feel pretty helpless. It's
great to see someone take on these rats that don't feel obligated
to admit to or make good on there mistakes. I wish you the best
of luck with this situation. Hopefully
guys like you will wake these people up.
EL
Just read your complaint against ford,
I am having almost the same problem
with a 1993.
If you make any progress, please keep us informed
thanks,
MS
Guess you never heard before you bought
your car the old Ford joke - FORD stands for Fix Or Repair Daily.
I have never trusted dealers to fix my cars, mostly because I
think they price gouge. Reading your story reinforces my mistrust.
I've brought my cars to the Midas/Mid-State Tire shop on Post
Road in East Greenwich for about 5-6 years and always been satisfied.
Have you filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau?
Well, good luck to you.
KM
I had a similar problem, not soo bad with my toyota. I kept perservering and they finally made good and fixed the engine trouble. They threatened to send out an investigator, etc. I stood by my guns and they finally gave in. I would definetly take them to small claims court if you do have to fix the car elsewhere. Most car manufacturers have an arbitration process also. Good luck to you.
SM
Well I am thinking that you had a bad
engine from the start of the whole deal you must have had a crack
in the block the first time you took it to the dealer place. I
have worked on cars with blow or crack heads, but to my knowledge
when you get water in the oil as you stated in the beginning you
have a crack in the block its self. But your not alone with these
dealer places there's thousands more people like you that get
screwed by these dealer places but let me get back to you on my
theory about the water in the oil thing cause I do believe the
head gasket was not the problem.
Sincerly PG
Brad,
hi brad,
so could you tell me what engine this
taurus has in it. 3.8 i'll bet
if so it's a production-engineering problem........sell the car
now, even replacement engines are bad.
Go see an attorney
LKS