Wayne Carman Interview
with The Elvis Touch, Glasgow Branch of the OEPFC
Friday 17th September 1999 ~ Thistle Hotel, Irvine, Ayrshire, Scotland
Wayne Carman was a karate instructor who started training Red West in 1969/70, before training and practising with Elvis in the early 1970s. He fought Hill "superfoot" Wallace for the world title, losing by only one point. Wayne was also present when Elvis's karate documentary "The New Gladiators" was being filmed, and is now the owner of the film.
We talked to Wayne at length about karate and Elvis, we were supposed to only have a 10 minute interview, but it went on for well over an hour.
First we asked what he thought about Elvis.
"Elvis was a man who was spiritually in line with God and himself, he had that something, it made him the centre of attention, one which came with his fame, everything revolved around him".
So how did you get to work with Elvis?
"In 1969/70 I was training the Memphis police, and Elvis heard about this. Red West called and asked if I would train him in the use of nunchaku sticks (two pieces of wood with a 12" chain). Red got really good, and Elvis became interested".
You trained with Elvis?
"Yes". How good was he? Some have said that it was his money that bought him his degrees of black belt? "He was very good, you have to understand that what one person thinks is a seventh degree black belt another may now. Kang Rhee promoted Elvis to seventh degree, he thought he was that good. So did I. Ed Parker, the godfather of white American karate thought he was that good. His money did help. He could afford the best trainers in the world, and he was trained by the best, he also practised with some of the world's greatest including Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, the world champion at the time".
Did you see Elvis in concert?
"Yes, several times". Elvis does a lot of moves that look like karate.
Are these karate moves or dance steps choreographed for the songs?
"Elvis studied many different styles of the simple stretching and warming-up exercises, while others are stances and punches for defending and attacking. (Wayne gave us a short display). There is a real mixture, but they are all karate moves".
We would like to ask about the New Gladiators project. How did you come to own the film?
"Bill Lynn was a manager with the Jimmy Velvet Elvis Presley Museum. One day I met Jimmy and we talked. I mentioned I was in this film with Elvis but had never seen it. He replied, how would you like to see it as I have it here. We arranged to go back once the museum had closed to view the film. I just had to have it, so I enquired if it was for sale and the cost. Jimmy said others were presently showing interest, including Graceland. Then, about four years ago, it came on the market and now I own it".
There were TWO 20+ minute reels filmed, do you have both?
"There were two reels but only one has Elvis, it was filmed at two different karate studios in Memphis. The second reel contains other people, but there is no film of Elvis. The New Gladiators was not about Elvis and karate. It was a documentary about karate which Elvis was part of. He was financing the project, putting $125,000 into its making, but it was not to promote Elvis. Sure they expected the documentary to gross about $9 million in the first year, but it was to promote karate to a mass audience".
Do you think the project would have worked to promote karate? Elvis was after all criticised as a musician, a singer, a movie actor and called a parody of himself in the 70s, which was the period the film was made. Do you think it would have been criticised because it WAS Elvis and not someone famous for karate?
"Elvis took it very serious, people could not believe that he would push one or two people with his throat. His career was singing, this could have cost millions and finished his career, he took it that serious and he knew the dangers. There is no doubt that it would have been good for karate, his name alone meant many would watch it and take notice".
So do you think Elvis would have been a good ambassador for karate?
"Ambassador, that's a beautiful word, yes, ambassador. Elvis was the first actor to include karate in his films, though is never given credit for that. He continually promoted karate through his concerts, in some instances talking for half an hour, though most people would have wanted to hear him sing. Elvis was a great ambassador and The New Gladiators would have shown karate to the wide public because of Elvis and his involvement. Many stars in Hollywood took up karate because of Elvis, he would put displays on at home and on the film sets".
Wayne, what is your view of Dave Hebler?
"Dave was one of the best karate people I've seen, he was so good. He was introduced to Elvis by Ed Parker. Dave was number two to Ed at his Los Angeles studio. Elvis phoned Ed Parker to do some security work, but Ed was too busy and recommended Dave Hebler".
Why did Elvis let someone who was obviously in it for himself into the inner circle?
"Dave fooled everyone, I was fooled. I thought he was one of the good guys but, since his betrayal of Elvis, I have never spoken to him again. Ed Parker was fooled, and he regretted it for the rest of his life, he didn't like the fact his friend had been betrayed by someone he had recommended. He felt personally responsible".
So what are your views of Dave Hebler?
"I believe if you can't say anything good about someone, don't say anything at all. I'll leave it at that".
Have you spoken to Red West about the book "Elvis What Happened"?
"I've never spoken to Sonny West since, but I phoned Red when I started my book because he was there from the start. I asked him if he could do it over again, would he change anything. I can't remember his exact phrasing, but he said that he would approach it differently if he was given another chance, though he still believes what he did was in the best interest and intentions for his friend".
We have a 50 minute telephone conversation between Elvis and Red West about the book. Elvis is scathing in his attack on Dave Hebler, but do you think Elvis would have forgiven them?
"What angered Elvis was the betrayal. I don't think be would ever have forgiven Dave Hebler, but Red and Elvis were like brothers. I bet when it's Red's time and assuming he goes to Heaven, I think Elvis will be at the gates waiting to hug him. They were closer than family and Red had been there from the start".
Finally, regarding the film project The New Gladiators, do you have any intention of releasing this film?
"We expect it to be released in early 2001. The aim is to have it out within two years. As Elvis intended it to be a documentary about karate, we will use all the film, but we are waiting to see Graceland's reaction. They think they own the image of Elvis, but the courts will decide".
The above has been dramatically shortened as so much was said about karate and Elvis.