Kops' nonsense has been driving me nuts since he claimed main purpose of the army and navy is to flush out targets for aircraft. Nothing like a balance view is there.

Keep it up it has been a good read.
--alexsa

Thanks alexsa,

You actually read an earlier draft (I posted in error) that I've deleted and replaced with the intended version above.

Cheers
--Element1Loop

Good work mate. Always keen to see something assist the current "debate" (if it can even be called that) from a more balanced perspective. Keep it up mate. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this.
--Aussie Digger

Thanks mate, I've seen you around the relevant forums dig, feel free to link or quote etc. More to come...
--Element1Loop
<mailto:[email protected]>

I'm interested by your claim that it was the RAAF that chose the JSF. Air 6000 originally had 9 candidates up for evaluation. As I understood it, this process was terminated by the government and the JSF was selected.
I am unaware of HOW the JSF was selected apart from the fact that it was announced by the government.
Any info on this process greatly appreciated.
--rb

Outstanding - finally some propoganda for the 'for' case!

Nice composition. Great to get some balance into this debate.

Cheers
--Magoo

Great Article Element Loop 1 - You should see if you can get this published in Aussie Av et al - it has great operational focus.

Couple of corrections for you;

1. I was involved in the Air6000 studies and F22 was not seriously looked at.
2. Any decision taken should be continually reviewed – The fist O in John Boyds OODA loop also refers to the results of your 1st decision.
3. Real time sensors are only required for F-22 targets that move - not generally airbases.
4. If they move they will be seen.
5. If they emit they will be seen.

The F22 has a different role to the JSF - I don't think we should be comparing the two. This is the trap everyone is falling into. We need to compare force mix options.

There are places the F22 can go that the JSF cannot because of its performance. At 10 miles high and M2.5 you have an incredibly long stick (AIM-120) and an incredibly long bomb (SDB/JDAM whatever). The JSF will never match these figures. Performance is a big part of stealth that most people do not understand. If you could fly at the speed of light it wouldn't matter what your RCS was. Supercruise is not about fuel economy, battlefield presence etc it is about survival in A/A and A/G.
So for the 1st day of war missions I would prefer the F22.

For what its worth from an old F-15 pilot.

--eagledriva9

Finally, Finally ........
something on the Defence side of this debate that says more than just brochure speak, power point sound bytes and what ministerial advisers will allow. Some real though has gone into this. Agree with a previous poster. The quality of debate from this side has been abysmal. Let's be honest, Defence's showing has been less than stellar and, in debating terms, they have been roundly defeated, though should remember they all have to dance to the jig coming out of the Centralised Propoganda Agency (CPA). They are the ones calling the shots - nincompoops the lot of them. This is possibly why ElementLoop1 who is obviously a warrior and well placed has had to use a blog to get this out there and had to do so anonymously. Such a shame it has had to come to this. He should get the credit that is due.

A concerned citizen.
--Damoclese

Thank you all for the worthwhile comments and feedback - all noted.

I'll just add that Defence can't provide information that's not for pubic purview / review / justification. That's cabinet level only. It's also not the role (nor remotely legal) for serving Defence to fight a 'keyboard war'. I hope none ever see fit to do so, it would get them nowhere. ADF and RAAF already make adequate allowable public comments within quality publications, it's just that people don't like reality much. I'm a civilian and would never do this otherwise. I just think this is a debate that needs to be laid open.

Concur with all points eagledriva9, I love the F-22A, just doesn't make sense for ADF on Day-1, or Day-2 ... maybe if a multirole new-build variant kicks off in 2020-25 it would make a whole lot of sense, but I think BVR is too small a regional threat and minor role in SEA for foreseeable.
As the saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat, the F-22A sure is a good one, but I can think of some far more practical, cheaper, and more flexible ones for the SEA context.
Will post another soon - cheers all
--Element1Loop

the quality of debate by the pro F-22 lobby has been spectacularly tepid. it reminds me of the farcical days of the F-111 and the Collins. The latter which suffered and still suffers from the poor shoddy journalism that was promoted as reasoned debate.

its about time more broad sheet journos and pretend journos participated in T5C etc - but thats expecting too much for them to demonstrate integrity and discipline.
--gf0012-aust