
 ************
Topic 12        Sun Mar 29, 1992
TONGUEDANCE [DieHard]        at 15:30 EST
Sub: Ultima UnderWorld *SPOILERS*           

Wherein the Followers Of the Way of the Avatar, to interested eyes only, do
faithfully chronicle the revealed secrets of the Stygian Abyss.  "KAL VAS WIS"
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 1         Sun Mar 29, 1992
TONGUEDANCE [DieHard]        at 15:30 EST
 
  Well, someone was gonna do it, why not Me? <g>
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 2         Sun Mar 29, 1992
W.HARRIS4 [William]          at 17:24 EST
 
I've played the demo.  At first, I was a bit disappointed, but that had a lot
to do with the fact that it was hard for me to find the pack with the torch. 
Later I became more impressed with the graphics.  The underworld still seems
very dim even with the torch. Are stronger light sources available later on?
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 3         Sun Mar 29, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 19:11 EST
 
William,

How about a "Daylight" spell?  It's sixth circle, so you have to be level 11
or above to cast it, and it eats 18 units of Mana.  I haven't gotten high
enough to use it...yet!

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 4         Mon Mar 30, 1992
W.LASKOWSKI [Grizz]          at 02:05 EST
 
I think some folks have mentioned a desire for a mani rune on the first level.
There's one (with a ylem) in a small box on a kind of quay in the nw section
of the level where the river branches, just east of the green goblin area. 
Created a nice loaf of avatar (no tm on the bread).
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 5         Mon Mar 30, 1992
TONGUEDANCE [DieHard]        at 02:21 EST
 
I've used the daylight scroll, and holy green goblin it really does seem like
daylight in there!!!  Beware that wiley dwarf king lest he send you to your
doom with promises of riches!!!


Regarding the room on level one with the four levers, just use the quarter
positions only and check out how the platforms outside raise and lower to get
the best stairstep arrangement for jumping...(hint: the farthest one from the
door should be pointing straight up...)
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 6         Mon Mar 30, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 09:34 EST
 
Diehard,

RE: Wiley Dwarf King - Just use a levitation spell and steal the sucker blind!
OH, AND LOOK OUT FOR THAT G...

BTW, it seems like you really have to compromise between armor and carrying
capacity in this game.  I've found a great stash; I put on my armor to explore
and go "buck naked" to complete quests.

Sir Kami
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 7         Mon Mar 30, 1992
W.HARRIS4 [William]          at 18:10 EST
 
I'm afraid it doesn't seem too likely that I'll get to 11th level in the demo
game, on the first level.  <grin>

I am looking forward to getting Underworld, whenever it's available at the
local stores.
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 8         Wed Apr 01, 1992
J.SATRIANO                   at 12:32 EST
 
Hi All:

Has anyone found the blade on level 3 yet? I know I should be looking for
secret doors in the SE part of the level, but the only one I can find is in
the Thieves storeroom.

Thanks: John Satriano
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 9         Wed Apr 01, 1992
BLUE.GHOST                   at 19:32 EST
 
J. Satriano, Talking about secret doors, how do you open them?

All,
 What character do you think is best to use in the game and why? Fighter, Mage
etc.


                               Ghost
                               ~~~~~
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 10        Wed Apr 01, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 21:21 EST
 
This is the spoiler topic, so can someone give me a couple of bits of  info:
  I have finished almost all of lvl 1 and half of lvl 2, but can only
  play for about an hour every other day so I don't like to wast time.
  On lvl 1, I cant get through the door to the shrine, I have no key 
  for it.  Do I need a key or is there another way? 
  The only other place on lvl 1 where I might be missing a key or
  something is in the elevated room that I have to raise platforms to
  using the 4 levers.  However, I forgot to mark on my map where that
  room was.  Was it in NW near the raised platforms or elsewhere? -------
  I am now at lvl 4 but have not been able to chant mantras cause I 
  cannot get into the shrine yet.  Do I get to chant a mantra for 
  each level or just once per visit?  Hopefully the former because
  I have a mage with no fighting or lockpick skills so I need to do
  some heavy chanting.  Thanks.
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 11        Wed Apr 01, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 23:38 EST
 
Soulcutter,

Finally found the right topic, huh?  NOW I can give you a straight answer
(WARNING: EXPLICIT ANSWER FOLLOWS)

In the room with with the platforms and water below (same room as the door to
the shrine that you can't get into), you must jump to the central platform. 
On the southern wall, there is a lever.  You should just be able to make it
out through the darkness (If you can't, turn up the contrast on your monitor!)
It's one heck of a jump.  Better to use a missile weapon to move the lever. 
If you've got enough mana, you can use a Magic Arrow spell.  Just put the red
circle on the lever and fire away.  That should open the shrine door.

There is AT LEAST on shrine on every level, and the number of times you can
use it is related to your experience points, not your level. (My paladin is up
to level 15, but I've used the shrines at least 30 times now).

The platform area is just south of the grey goblin enclave.  There are two
door into the area, and one is in the passageway that goes east/west.

BLUE.GHOST,

Open a secret door by USING it.  To find them, watch the walls very carefully
as you move about.  You can see a secret door if you look carefully WHILE
panning the view or walking.  They appear to be a part of the wall that
doesn't quite move like the rest of the wall. In LOW DETAIL, you can actually
see parts of the door's outline while moving.

John,

Are you sure you want me to tell you?  I'll give you a hint.  The blade IS on
level 3, and you DO have to find a secret door in the area you're looking in. 
It is hidden behind some vines.  However, the blade is NOT in the room behind
the secret door.  I think you'll understand once you find the door.

Enjoy,

Kami
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 12        Wed Apr 01, 1992
BLUE.GHOST                   at 23:43 EST
 
Soulcutter, look for a button on the wall and throw something at it to open
the door to the shrine. Use the shrine a number of times and save each time
and see which one you like. I guess the more exp. points you get the more
skill points you get.

What character are you using?


                               Ghost
                               ~~~~~
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 13        Thu Apr 02, 1992
R.DEBOLD [Ginter]            at 01:21 EST
 
 I needs some help, I have a 15th level fighter traped in a room on
 level 5. The room is where a tomb is, I used a lever outside to raise
 a gate, I entered and killed a ghost, used key form ghost to open tomb,
 found a box of stuff, then went happly on my only to find the gate was
 dropped (yikes!). I can't see the lever outside to use any magic or poles
 to move the lever. My only save is when he was on level 3 and about
 at 8th level experience. So does any one have any clues as what to do?

                            Ginter (trapped in a tomb)
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 14        Thu Apr 02, 1992
A.LANGE2 [Alan D.]           at 01:30 EST
 
Finally got the game, but am still on level 1.

 Has anyone found any other mantras? "RA" by itself adds to attack but you get
a better amount of points by using one of the original 3 mantras.

 I'm using a Paladin. I figure his fighting will keep him alive while his
magic will help out. I have prayed 4 times so far, once to get 2 swords and an
attack  /p , prayed twice to get 2 manas, a lore, and a casting, and prayed
once to get 2 swimmings and a trap skill.

What do you all think are the best skills to get?

  Alan
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 15        Thu Apr 02, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 03:25 EST
 
Ginter,
        Use the key you found after killing the ghost on the gate. It works!

Anyone,
        How do I open the door with two switches on the walls in Silas Maze? 
(that's the maze behind the west secret door after killing the Choas Knight
Rodric on the Knights Level)

Origin,
        I think this is a bug.  The manual said that mantras raising just one
skill will raise it significantly.  This is not true!  They only raise them
maybe at most two points more then the original 3 mantras.

                                                Jason
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 16        Thu Apr 02, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 03:40 EST
 
Ginter,

You don't by chance have a lock pick and some skill in that category, do you? 
That's how I got out.  You should save the game when you see signs like the
one just OUTSIDE the gate.  I just don't like to fight the same battles over
again.

All,

O.K.,  I'm down to the last unknown mantra.  I'd like to know the mantra that
increases just CASTING (not 'cause I need it, but the curiosity is killing
me!)  I'll swap my ENTIRE list of mantras in exchange for this mantra and it's
source (If you can remember it). Post it here or e-mail it to me.  I'll
respond by e-mail.

Has anyone found the Cup of Wonder yet?  I've got the area narrowed down to
about 15 steps in any direction, but can't seem to find it in that area.  I've
tried just about every trick, but nothing seems to work.  (BTW, the previous
trade applies here, if you want it! Otherwise, name your price in
information).

Alan D.,

Search is pretty high on my list.  All I have to do is walk past those secret
doors and they appear on my map!  Of course, picklock has come in handy many
times on level 7 now.  I guess it just depends on your orientation.  DIVERSIFY
or DIE!

Kami
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 17        Thu Apr 02, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 03:55 EST
 
Jason,

HA!  I didn't even think of trying that key!  I'm so used to using the
"universal" key!

The mantra thing is no bug.  It's just that as you get higher in stats, you
get less improvement.  I do think it's a little unfair that you can get as
little as 3 points of improvement in a practical skill, when the general
mantra gives at least 4 points.  Save, chant, save, and chant!!  (I love this
cached IDE controller.  It makes doing that kind of thing practical!)

The secret of the jewelled levers is found by looking at the "artifacts" of
the Knights' order.  (Look at the two tombstones in the Knights' enclave). 
STOP READING NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT THE ANSWER.

Look at the names on the tombstones.  See how the dots on the i's are silver
and gold?  If you put them together from left to right, that's gold, silver,
silver, gold, gold, silver.  USE the switches in that order to open the door.

Kami
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 18        Thu Apr 02, 1992
J.VROOM [Jim]                at 04:08 EST
 
So, has anyone had any luck translating the green & red lizard language?  I've
talked to the prisoner and gotten his translation of quite a few words, but
others I'm not sure of.  I don't know if it really makes a difference towards
finishing the game to know their language, but it's kinda fun.  And it does
show the incredible depth to this game!

Here's some of what I've translated:

TOSA = you
 ISILI = us or we (?)
 BICA = greetings or hello
 SEL'A = give or possibly gift
 SSETH = yes
 CLICK = no
 SSTRESH = help
 THIT = want or need (?)


Anyone have any others to share?

Jim

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 19        Thu Apr 02, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 06:14 EST
 
Jim, try these on for size.

Lizardmen's Language

bica - greetings
 'click - no
 eppa - return
 Isili - me
 ossli - a lot
 sel'a - trade
 sorr - enemy
 sorra - thief
 sseth - yes
 ssil - ????
 sstresh - help
 Thepa - Lizardmen
 thes'click - attack
 thesh - be friends
 thit - implore, ask
 tosa - you
 yashor'click - friend
 yethe - kill
 zekka - food

There's also a few that speak English too.  You better help that
translator/mage out, too.  I thought the guy was awfully ungrateful when I
did, but it pays off later.

Since the UU topic is down for cleaning, can anyone give me a HINT for finding
Tom (or his picture)?

Thanks, Kami

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 20        Thu Apr 02, 1992
J.SATRIANO                   at 14:59 EST
 
Kami: Thanks for the hint, but no go....all I can find is the thieves secret
stash...no blade, no other secret doors. What am I doing wrong??

Thanks: John Satriano
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 21        Thu Apr 02, 1992
D.MCINTYRE1                  at 19:17 EST
 
Any tips for staying alive in the game? Its getting to the point where I save
after everytime I survive a fight. I didn't think my stats  were that bad. I'm
playing with a Druid. Seems to be a good mix. Still exploring around level 2.
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 22        Thu Apr 02, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 21:24 EST
 
 

 D.MCINTYRE1:  What's the problem staying alive?  It sounds like
  you need to examine your mix of skills and specialize a bit
  especially in the combat area.   I'm also playing Druid.



  Jeff T.
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 23        Thu Apr 02, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 23:07 EST
 
John,
  Around where the (upper) walkway becomes "sticky" - where you seem to stop
walking for no reason, face the wall and look.  Actually, what I did was walk
sideways and continually hit look.  Eventually I pushed away some vines.  The
actual secret room can be found by going down the walkway behind you.

Anyone,
  Is there anyway to get into the room in the Dwarves' camp behind the king -
the one with the guard.  Do I need the password?  If so where do I get it (I
am currently on level 5,  I just didn't bother with it).

Assassin
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 24        Thu Apr 02, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 23:51 EST
 
I had a Pepsi Syndrome accident on my keyboard, and it did some strange things
to my game.  I've lost most of my inventory, no matter which saved game I try.
Re-installing the game, then transferring saved files didn't help.  So I'm
starting from square one again, also with a druid.  Seems that your
character's profession affects the skill increase awarded by the shrine.  My
paladin would get 2-3 points in fighting skills, but my druid only gets 1-2.
However, in mystical skills, the druid gets a much better point increase than
the paladin did.  It appears that while you can force a change of occupation,
you get higher faster if you stick to your class.

D.MCINTYRE1,

Staying alive means staying healthy.  Click on the compass dial to see if your
hungry or tired.  If you stay fed and at least rested, you perform better.  If
fighting is getting you killed, then either increase your fighting skills, or
learn HOW to fight.  Don't just stand in one place.  Move around constantly. 
It makes you SO much harder to hit.  You'll have to master the movement keys
to do this. I like the forward/backward step myself.  I Move forward, strike,
then step back out of range while my power crystal turns green again.  It
really does work!

Asassin,

If you give the dwarf king a valuable gift, he just might let you see what's
behind the door.

All,

Boost your SEARCH skill to find secret doors.  If it's high enough, you just
have to walk along a wall, then examine your map.  No more click, click, click
while looking at the walls!


OK John, you asked for it.  ALL WHO DO NOT WISH TO KNOW ABOUT THE SWORD OF
CALIBAN, STOP READING!

The sword blade is in the very southeasternmost corner of the map. To get
there, you must make your way through the lizardmen enclave to the eastern
edge or the map.  You should be on the outer side of the circular river that
runs around this level.  Go south as far as you can from here.  You'll be in a
passageway with a level walkway and a ramp going down (both go west).  Walk
along the level walkway, checking the wall on your right.  If you hit the
river again, you missed it.  Go back and try again.  When you find the secret
door, use the lever inside the room, then go down the ramp.

Kami
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 25        Fri Apr 03, 1992
S.SHEPHERD1                  at 00:32 EST
 
How do I get into the rooms with the windows? I've tried busting thru the
windows but no luck <works good on doors>. Anything wrong with killing the
goblins? Lizardmen? where are the damn stones, I need to be able to create
food so I don't have to carry so much stuff. What good is the stone cutting
tool the dwarf king gives you?  B-KB-K
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 26        Fri Apr 03, 1992
J.SATRIANO                   at 00:46 EST
 
Kami: Thank you...that was driving me NUTS!!

John Satriano
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 27        Fri Apr 03, 1992
J.SATRIANO                   at 00:48 EST
 
Stone cutting tool: Hang on to it, someone will ask for it a little  deeper
down.

Password: The dwarf king gives it to you when you kill the monster for him and
then give him a gift. If you want it let me know, and I'll  e-mail it to you.
It's actually worthless as far as I know.

John Satriano
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 28        Fri Apr 03, 1992
J.VROOM [Jim]                at 02:45 EST
 
Kami,

Thanks for providing some more of the lizard speak.  I have run across those
gray lizards that speak our language, sort of.

How about a hint for releasing the prisoner?  I have tried to do so but no
luck so far.  I was going to forget about him, but since you say he is
important I will have to give it another try.

You mentioned you needed to find someone named Tom.  I have seen a wall with
"TOM LOVES JUDY" written on it.  Haven't met anyone named Tom yet, as far as I
know.

I have explored and mapped up to Level 4 so far.  I need to go back and more
thoroughly search levels 2 & 3 before I proceed any further.
 Also need to visit the shrines some more and get my abilities improved a
little.


Jim

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 29        Fri Apr 03, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 02:58 EST
 
John,

Hmm, depends on what you do in that treasure room...Of course, now that Origin
says that becoming evil will prevent you from completing the game, I wonder
how much stealing is too much.

Has anyone had luck finding Tom?  It's really beginning to bug me.

Kami
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 30        Fri Apr 03, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 03:08 EST
 
Jim,

Yep, I saw "TOM LOVES JUDY" too.  I thought for sure that I'd find some
picture of him around there, but so far, no luck.

Have you talked to the lizardman named Ssetharee?  Armed with the Lizard to
English dictionary, you should be able to free the prisoner.

Kami "BET WIS LOR"
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 31        Fri Apr 03, 1992
D.MCINTYRE1                  at 19:22 EST
 
Yeah, I got better at fighting once I got some more decent stuff. I guess I
have to push ahead to the the lower levels grab some stuff, and go back  up
and search around a bit :-) I'm moving back and forth quite a bit. Move back,
charge up on the strength and then lunge forward with a blow. I find that I
can't cast anymore spells if I do evil stuff like kill all beings and stuff
like that. Oh well.

I can't understand what Ssetharee wants, so could you spoil it for me? Also
can't hit the gorgon at all, so I guess I'll just ignore it for now, and trek
back up when I have some more levels and stats.
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 32        Fri Apr 03, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 20:30 EST
 
Seen some request for mantras... here are a few: Repair =LON     SEARCH=LU  
ATTACK=RA   SWIM=ONO  UNARMED=ORA DEFENSE=ANRA    APPRAISE=LAHN  TRAPS=ROMM 
SNEAK=MULL PICK=AAM CASTING=SOL  MANA=IMU  

Got the 2 sword piece and had it repaired.  Found the book accidentaly while
exploring and just got the clue for the location of the bottle of wine and was
heading for it when I activated a moongate spell accidentaly and got sent back
to level 2.  What do we do with the 8 talismans when we find them? Someone
please send the proper sequnces for the 4 switches in the NW room and the
combination for the teleprter.  These are on level 5 I think. Thanks,
  JB
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 33        Fri Apr 03, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 21:44 EST
 
Kami,
   Are you still looking for casting?  If so, it is SOL...

Like JB I can't seem to get the switches in the NW of level 5 to work.  I was
told to do NW,SE,NE,SW but nothing happened....

Assassin

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 34        Fri Apr 03, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 22:01 EST
 
J.Bowman1,

You got casting and mana mixed up (I think).  Thanks for the casting
 Mantra.

Your combination can be found by giving Kneenibble (the ghoul on level 5 in
the ghoul enclave) what he wants.

If you just want a hint, you need to talk to the mages on level 6 first.

I e-mailed you the spoilers for the above two question.

D.MCINTYRE1,

Your prisoner spoiler is in your E-mailbox.


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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 35        Fri Apr 03, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 22:23 EST
 
Assassin,

Ok, since I've seen two people post that Casting is SOL, I guess that my notes
must be wrong.  Anyhow, thanks for the correction.

Since two people now want the answer to the levers, I'll let you in on a hint.
(well, maybe a little more than a hint!)  The object in the room is the Ring
of Humility.

#1-STAY OUT OF THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM! (At least until the ring appears).

#2-Only the humble may possess the ring.  (Assume a humble posture, you know,
head DOWN!)

your BET WIS LOR,

Kami
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 36        Sat Apr 04, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 03:05 EST
 
   Well, I'm at the point where I'm tired of running back and forth through
mazes, so here I am in the SPOILERS topic.  The questions I'm going to ask
might reveal parts of the game, so unless you're a ways along, you might not
want to read further.

  First, as mentioned above, what's the combination for the levers in the NW
room on level 5?
  Second, can all the locked doors on level 7 be picked or not? I've only
found one, maybe two keys (for that level)...but there are a lot of doors I
want to get through.  Advice on key locations would be much appreciated (I've
already got the one that gets you past the room w/ all the jumps and the two
teleport spots.)
   Third, my character is up to 15th level, but I still can't seem to compete
with those fire elementals (especially on level 7). Anyone else been able to
take them out, and how?
   Fourth, how do I get into the 'tombs' on level 7?
   Fifth, there are some minor things from previous levels I've bypassed
somewhat, but would like to finish up:  finding the missing lizardman leader,
getting into the room past the troll area, finding the book by 'Lorne' (or
something like that), getting through the secret door in the NE most room on
level 4 (I think), and of course, the picture of Tom.
   Last, do you need all the Talismans to fight the big bad wizard on level 7?
And is this the grand finale of the game, or is there a lot more that follows?


   Ok, here's some advice:  if you haven't already figured this out, when you
go to another level from the 7th, it gives you part of your mana back--
regardless of how much you had before.  So, if you're near an entrance to the
8th, just go up and down the stairs, casting as many spells as you like. 
Essentially, you've got an unlimited supply of mana to work with.  Works great
for healing and light spells.


  Kevin

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 37        Sat Apr 04, 1992
J.VROOM [Jim]                at 03:20 EST
 
Anyone have any tips for killing that flying gazer in the mines on level 2 (or
3, not sure).  I have tried many times to no avail.
 There's not enough space in there to cast spells, which I find very annoying
at times!

Jim

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 38        Sat Apr 04, 1992
A.LANGE2 [Alan D.]           at 03:36 EST
 
Well, I'm just finishing up level 2. That gazer I left till last. I died a few
times far too quickly before. Now with an entire outfit of chain mail, a small
shield and a longsword, all in excellent condition, I just stood face-to-face
with it and slugged it out. If I let it get too far away, it spat lightning.

Now my problems. 1> Just south of the stairs from level 1 in the NW, up by the
shrine on level 2, there is an area where I keep hearing something, like bats
flying. I can't find any secret room though. Is anything there?
 2> I read this before but can't find it. What do I do with the crystal ball
that was guarded by 2 skeletons? The 1 in the marble hall on level 2's NE.
  Thanks,  Alan
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 39        Sat Apr 04, 1992
BLUE.GHOST                   at 10:40 EST
 
Jim, go to the south part of the mines and see Shak the SMITHY. Buy the armor
he has to sell and go back and kill the gazer with your sword or battle axe if
you have it. I'm using a Shepherd and killing the gazer was EZ.

                              Ghost
                              ~~~~~
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 40        Sat Apr 04, 1992
D.GHIDALI1                   at 15:54 EST
 
finding aw way to get ther e but nothing doing..there is one chasmon level one
leading to annother set of stairs which I cannot get to HELP!!
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 41        Sat Apr 04, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 15:59 EST
 
D.GHIDAL1, You probaly need some kind of levatation spell to get to the stairs
if its the one I'm thinking about, but don't worry. You can reach them from
the next level. They don't lead to any area that you cannot reach from another
path.
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 42        Sat Apr 04, 1992
J.SATRIANO                   at 16:53 EST
 
Hi All: Where in the heck are the Ghouls? I need to find them, but I've been
all over the level and no luck. They wouldn't happen to be behind those caved
in passages would they?? If so, how do I get past them??

Thanks: J.S.
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 43        Sat Apr 04, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 17:41 EST
 
Several people wanted more strength...have npt found anyway to do that in game
play.  You can hex edit the player.dat file if you are careful. Byte #31 in
that file is for strength.  Don't overdo it.  Keep it under 30 ( when I say 30
I mean the decimal number seen when playing the game, not the actual
hexadecimal byte....that will be somewhere between 30 & 50 in hex and you will
have to add or subtract from it to get the desired effect....might take a few
trys to get it right) The reason I say don't go higher is that when I started
poking around in the file and then loaded the game to see the results I found
I had strength of 111!  First time I advanced my vitality shot up over 200 and
I could now carry 138 pounds more.  Next advance after that I was down deep on
6 or seven and vitality rolled over.  Had 18 for hitpoints and could not get
out alive.  had to restart.  Under 30 should be safe though....
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 44        Sat Apr 04, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 18:26 EST
 
Yes, but thats cheating. I play the game with the designed handicaps. What use
has any one found for thread? When you burn incense and then use it on your
character I believe it ups your stats in specific categories. I know a picture
of a cup with a mantra symbol pops up but I was not paying that close
attention and did not know if it upped a stat or not. I have found two insense
sticks  and each had a different affect or diffenernt mantra cup appear. Does
that dwarve rock hammer clear the debris in the caved in main staircase? I
haven't tried that one yet.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 45        Sat Apr 04, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:10 EST
 
 

  Can one of those Rock Hammers be used to mine for Gold in the
  mines on level 2???


  On level two, has does one get into the large area with two
  windows on the South side with no door????


  Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 46        Sat Apr 04, 1992
A.LANGE2 [Alan D.]           at 19:27 EST
 
I think those windows are just like level markers, 1 on 1, 2 on level 2, and
so on. Haven'e been past 2 so I'm not sure.
 I tried to mine gold but couldn't.
 I read that thread and a pole can make a fishing rod. I had great success on
level 2, now I never go hungry.
   Alan
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 47        Sat Apr 04, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 21:15 EST
 
Well, I found a complete fishing pole. No, I was not able to mine any gold
with a rock hammer. Just needed to clear the path to the grazer. Those windows
are in the encasement of what appears to be the main shaft of the volcano that
the abyss is located in.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 48        Sat Apr 04, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 21:55 EST
 
Incense: One of the mages down on the seer level said incense gave him
dreams... Maybe burning some will clear up the interference on the dreams you
normally get.  Been to busy hunting talismans and runes to mess with it yet. 
Still need 3 more runes.
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 49        Sat Apr 04, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 21:59 EST
 
Well, I have the Sword of Justice, Shield of Valor, Book of Honesty, Wine of
Compassion, Taper of Sacrifice, and Ring of Humility....now for the standard
and cup! Been trying to map 7 & 8 but it is pretty tough even with a boosted
player.

Here are a few questions on some higher leevels... Level 3: The NW corner of
map is empty..anything there? Level 4: In the NE corner has room with 2
switches..whats the combo? Level 5: I have a gap on the map from the room
where you get the Ring
         of Humility southwards to the shrine..anything there? Level 6: Large
gap in SE corner, think this is meeting hall Gralwart
         spoke of...how do I get into this area...can find no secret
         doors and I have VERY high search.

Thanks for the mail to prior question...I figured out the teleporter on my own
but would never have guessed to look down for the ring switches.

  JB

                    *l
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 50        Sun Apr 05, 1992
D.HAN [DAN]                  at 00:04 EST
 
An easy question:  How the heck do I make the rotworm stew?  I've got the
ingredients (port, rotworm, green mushroom) and the bowl, but what now?   I
don't know how to mix the stuff...

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 51        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 01:07 EST
 
maybe try a cauldron or a bowl?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 52        Sun Apr 05, 1992
A.LANGE2 [Alan D.]           at 03:18 EDT
 
Put the stuff in the bowl, then use the scroll on it. They say the Trolls like
it later on.
  Alan
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 53        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 04:39 EDT
 
JB,
  You missed the standard!  Didn't you kill the Chaos knight?  That was your
reward.

  As for the gaps in the NW part of the map,  don't worry.  You will be
exploring those parts after you take care of Tyball (no the game
 does not end then).

  On level 6, to get to the SE part,  you have to go straight east from the
"Pit" and walk between the pair of eyes that you should see.

Assassin
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 54        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 05:58 EDT
 
Alan D.,

Regards to #2:  If you use something you found in that room (and picked up,
hopefully!) with the crystal ball, you'll also find the answer to #1.  SAVE
THE GAME FIRST!!  I don't want to spoil it too much for you, so try it out.

Rick,

Talk to the mage Louvnon on level 6, and then talk to the mage Frygen.  Then
you'll know what the incense is all about.

Jeff T.

That's the main shaft of the volcano.  You can't get in there (Yet?).

J.Bowman1,

Level 4, NW corner switches:  You need to look at the only two tombstones in
the Knights' Enclave.  That should give you the clue you need to operate the
"precious" levers.

Dan,

I hope you didn't kill off all the green goblins on level 1.  Bribe King
Vernix' right hand man.

Your friendly IN BET LOR,

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 55        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 11:17 EDT
 
J.CURTICE: YeaH I killed the knight.  He had a standard?  Didn't see it...have
to go back and check I guess.
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 56        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 11:47 EDT
 
Need help on 4.  Room in NE corner...has two levers and two buttons on  a
ledge.  To the East is a door I think.  How do I open this one? PS. ( this is
the "frog" area) with the reset activated wand.

I went back and looked for standard.  didn't find it among Rodrick's remains. 
I assume it is hidden somewhere on this level?
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 57        Sun Apr 05, 1992
K.FONG1 [K.K]                at 13:52 EDT
 
This is my first time sending in message, so if I made any mistakes, please
correct me.  Thanks.  (using Aladdin 1.61)  Now for some questions.

1.  Where the h*%# can I find the avil?  I have gone through almost all of
level 1 and 2 with no sight of it (or I do not need it).

2.  I have all the parts to make a rotworm stew, what should I do with it?

3.  What should I do with those goblins on level 1?  Can I kill them just for
the heck of it, or leave them alone?  Is there any treasures hidden in their
domain?  (I have a level 9 Druid with battle axe and chain armor, can I beat
them easily?)

4.  I help Ironwit on level 2 retrieve his "blueprint".  Does this make the
game harder later on because after I receive his "quest" and go to sleep, that
blue face guy comes up and said something like
 "he pose great danger" (can't remember exactly)?

5.  How can I open the gate located in the NE part of level 2?

                                          thanks a million!!!

                                               K.K :)

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 58        Sun Apr 05, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 14:40 EDT
 
KK, didn't a guy on level one tell you how he activated a switch outside his
cell door when he was imprisoned by the goblins? If you get in a race try to
start in the POLE position.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 59        Sun Apr 05, 1992
A.LANGE2 [Alan D.]           at 14:51 EDT
 
Thanks Kami.
 I restarted with a new guy with better stats. This one has 24-18-18 and can
carry around 48? stone weight. He also seems to fight better. 
 BTW, I HATE jumping. It's the one thing I still have trouble with. Running
jumps I fail 99% of the time. Long jumps I fail 80% of the time, but if I go
to lowest detail, I can do it alright. I'm not jumping from a different spot
nor am I holding the buttons down a different time, it's just a sensitive game
;)

  Alan
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 60        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 14:57 EDT
 
K.K. --- there is an anvil on level 2 in the SE and one on level 6 in the
NE...you can't take it with you but if you have repair skills you can fix your
weapons and armour.

Alan D.  I don't remember where but I found a ring of long jump.  comes in 
handy, BUT, have to be careful, I can now do standing jumps that can carry me
to far!  Have to judge the distance and maybe take off the ring sometim Also
have ring of resist blows, and another which I forgot what it did.
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 61        Sun Apr 05, 1992
E.GOLDMAN [edg]              at 14:59 EDT
 
Questions and spoilers(I'm now about to start level 6):

  o What's the combo for the bullfrog puzzle?  Spent a bunch of time
    on it but now I give up.  I've noticed what appears to be a
    a secret passage on the E side of this chamber.  I assume
    solving the puzzle opens this up.

  o I just *know* there's an area to the S and W of the maze of Silas
    on Level 4.  Can't get to it, but when I use tracking it says
    there's monsters in that direction and I can hear them thru the
    walls.  Is there a way to get there from this level?  I remember
    a clue about going to the bottom of the Abyss and fighting back
    up, so I'm thinking that maybe some areas will only be accessible
    from stairs at the bottom ....

  o Do I need anything from Judy?  I haven't found Tom's picture.
    BUT, when I was walking around I accidently pushed her into the
    lava and now she's gone <sniff>.  Hope it doesn't make me evil.
    Ooops, clumsy me ....

  o To get the Banner: kill Rodrick and then go back to visit the
    knight's leader (ironfist).

  o Keep that spider thread!  you'll need it for level 5.

  o In regards to the windows: I don't think you can actually do
    anything with them, but they get redder the lower you go.

  o Do you use the flute somewhere on level 5?  I've tried playing
    the correct song in a bunch of places, but haven't found the
    right area yet.

-edg-
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 62        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 15:40 EDT
 
 

  Arggh.  I started over with a bard (20/20/20) and got back down
  to level 2 and can't remember where the blueprints are to be
  found.  I got them for Ironwit just yesterday but I must be
  suffering from brain-lock or something.  Someone give me a
  jump-start here, please.  Sheesh.  Better start taking notes,
  I guess.


  Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 63        Sun Apr 05, 1992
R.CURTICE [Bruin Father]     at 16:51 EDT
 
edg,
  I hope you saved before you "killed" Judy.  There is something you get from
her after you give her a picture of Tom.

Assassin

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 64        Sun Apr 05, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 17:04 EDT
 
Whoever it was that pushed Judy in the Lava, you might want to go back to a
previously saved game-- you need her later after you find the picture of Tom.

  Well, I didn't get much response to my questions, but I've figured most of
them out already.  What I'm left with is:
  1-  Where's the cup Talisman?
  2-  I need a more specific answer on the Ring of Humility (re: how to set
the levers...or is this to be abtained from looking at the knight tombstones?)
  3-  Where's the taper Talisman?

That's it.  Oh-  Where can I find an Ex rune?

   KG

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 65        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 17:28 EDT
 
KG: Don't remember which level (2 or 3 I think) but there is a guy in one of
the rooms that has a taper and some candles he will sell you.  That is the
taper you seek.
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 66        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 17:45 EDT
 
K.K,

(Your first message?  Very nice.  A LOT better than my first message; didn't
have Aladdin back then, though).

O.K.,  You asked for spoilers, and we got 'em.

DON'T KILL ANYTHING YOU DON'T HAVE TO!  You can become evil in this game, and
evil avatars are doomed to spend eternity in the Abyss (That's what Origin
says!).

There is one anvil on level 2.  Find Shak (he's in the south branch of the
mine) and you'll find the anvil.  There are more, but I'll let you discover
them.

Ironwit's Quest: Doesn't make the game any harder.

Get yourself a pole to open that gate.  Use the pole on the button.

Talk to King Vernix' right-hand-man.  Bribe him with a gold coin. Then USE the
scroll he gives you.  Trolls like worm stew.


Jeff Thomas,

Ironwit's room is just to the east of the portculis to the Mountainmen
Enclave.

KG,

The Taper is on level 3.  Zak has it.  He lives near that corridor with the
rat-generating lever.  Bring food when you see him.

To get the ring, operate levers in sequence: NW,SE,NE,SW.  Stay out of the
middle of the room (walk next to the wall) until the ring appears, and KEEP
YOUR HEAD DOWN!  Humble, remember? (Heh!)

EX is on level 6 in the talking door room (south part of mage area).

   Your IN BET LOR,
   Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 67        Sun Apr 05, 1992
A.LANGE2 [Alan D.]           at 19:03 EDT
 
The penalty for evil is confiscated EXP. On level 1, my EXP dropped from 289
to 272 when I killed the grey goblin gate-keeper. Of course, by the time I
killed all of them I was up to 300 EXP. Their lurker was worth another 31.
  Alan
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 68        Sun Apr 05, 1992
D.DORBUCK [ZAPHOD]           at 19:35 EDT
 
Hey Guys,
        How about a little help. On level 3 I have found The sword blade that
was near the shrine and was guarded by the ghost. Now is there another part of
the sword (like hilt?) Where is it ?? If its not on level 3 dont tell me. Also
when I hit the switch in the secret room (sort of near the above stuff) It
says you hear "tons of water come crashing" or something like that. Whats
happening here ?? Doesnt seem to be anything major, am I missing something ? A
passage way opening up due to the water being released ? If so where ??
                                    Lots of questions, I know ..
                                          Thanks
                                              ZapHod

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 69        Sun Apr 05, 1992
R.CURTICE [Bruin Father]     at 20:17 EDT
 
Kami,
  Didn't you say that you were close to finding the cup?  I need that in order
to finish the game.  Any hints or at least someone (in the game) that can give
me a hint or two?

Assassin

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 70        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.SALISBURY [.BADGER.]       at 20:57 EDT
 
Has anyone solved the bullfrog puzzle? I can sometimes get some raised
platforms to come up, but I cant figure out any pattern. An explicit answer
would be greatly appreaciated.
                   Jeff
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 71        Sun Apr 05, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 21:20 EDT
 
Me too.  how about some explicit help here.  Also someone spoke of gold and
silver levers on this level...where are they?  I have not found them. Killed
the mage and freed the girl.  Still need a bunch of keys for level seven. 
Where are they?  Spent a little time on 8 but want to get th cup before
finishing and going back up.  Anyone found the cup yet?
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 72        Sun Apr 05, 1992
D.HAN [DAN]                  at 21:45 EDT
 
Solution to Bullfrog Puzzle follows:

Facing dials and buttons, turn the left dial ONCE (it'll only turn right) and
push the top button ONCE.  Now turn the right dial ONCE and push the bottom
button ONCE.  Repeat this procedure EXACTLY until you turn the dial twice
around and it stops back on the 12 o'clock position (it's original position). 
If you mess up, use the wand and it'll reset everything.  You should now have
a high enough platform in the center of the room to reach the platfrom above. 


In the same Bullfrog Puzzle room, there's also a hidden passageway.   Remember
"To pass thru the unseen, jump thru the seen"?  If you walked  around in the
room, you'll notice on your auto-map what looks like a secret door on the
southeastern wall.  Unfortunately, it's at the top and the only way to get
thru is to leap thru it.  Here's what you do to raise the center of the room
high enough to performm this (very similar to the above  solution):

Turn right dial ONCE, push top button ONCE.  Turn left dial ONCE, push bottom
button ONCE.  Again, perform this until the dial revolves around the clock and
ends on the 12 o'clock position.  BTW, before performing this procedure, make
sure to "reset" the room with the wand.  Remember, twice around.

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 73        Sun Apr 05, 1992
D.HAN [DAN]                  at 21:49 EDT
 
Grrr...I have every talisman except for the cup.  Where is it?  Yes, I have
talked to the shrines and it is on the western/northwestern side of level 3,
but I don't know where exactly.  There's a HUGE blank spot on the NW  area but
can't find the secret door, or whatever, to get there.  Can  someone give me a
*small* hint as to where to go?  Thank you.

' Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 74        Mon Apr 06, 1992
K.SETO4 [Ken]                at 00:48 EDT
 
 Hi guys,

  I haven't been paying TOO much attention here so my question may
  have already been answered...

  But here goes...What exactly are the incenses for? I used them and
  got these visions...don't understand the visions or what I'm 
  supposed to do about them.

  Your wisdom is appreciated :)

 Thanks,
 Ken
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 75        Mon Apr 06, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 01:19 EDT
 
Assasin,

I said I had the area narrowed down.  I still can't seem to get into the area
in question, and am continuing on until I figure it out. I'll let you know
when I do (or maybe you'll let me know, huh?) Guess I've got a lot of catching
up to do if you're close to finishing.  Did you kill the wizard?  I hear the
game is still far from over at that point.

I figure that the cup must be on level 3, just west of the room with the
gazer.  If you take a protractor, a piece of tracing paper, and a pencil to
the screen, you can project the 45 degree cone that the shrines direct you
with.  Look at the most limiting case, and you see where the cup should be.  I
just can't find it there.  I've tried REVEAL until my fingers were tired from
all the restores.  No luck.  I do have one more idea, but it will have to wait
until I clear level 7.  (Go to the bottom of the Abyss and work your way back
up to find the key to your fortitude?)

JB,

EXPLICIT ANSWER TO ROOM OF PRECIOUS LEVERS FOLLOWS!

There's a secret door in the south part of the Maze of Silas.  The levers and
door are in the room beyond.  Silver, Gold, Gold, Silver, Silver, Gold gets
you through.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 76        Mon Apr 06, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 01:25 EDT
 
Ken,

If you talk to LOUVNON and FRYGEN (mages on level 6) you should be able to
figure it out.  If you just want the answer, read on.

EXPLICIT ANSWER FOLLOWS

The incense visions show three different parts of the mantra to locate the Cup
of Wonder.  Rearrange them; you get INSAHN.  Use it at any shrine to get the
direction to the cup.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 77        Mon Apr 06, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 05:01 EDT
 
Well, for all you fans of the Ring of Humility, I have a retraction to make. 
You don't have to keep your head down while operating those levers.  I tried
it again with a saved game, and got the ring with my head on the level.  No
harm done keeping your head down, though!

I guess its AN WIS LOR on this one!

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 78        Mon Apr 06, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 05:02 EDT
 
  Thanks for the help, folks.

  If the cup is on level 3, in the area you suggest, then it may
 only be obtainable on the way back up.
  For those who've killed the mage, has anyone started the climb back up?  I
started it, but it got pretty rough, and I decided to wait til I had all the
Talismans first.  (Running straight through, I think I got as far as level 4,
but I don't know off hand).

  KG

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 80        Mon Apr 06, 1992
D.HAN [DAN]                  at 05:56 EDT
 
Kami:

Come to think of it, your theory about how to find the Cup of Wonders  (Go to
the base of the abyss...find the key to your fortitude) sounds like the plan
you need to follow.  Sheesh, I wrote *everything* down and yet I didn't even
think about that.  Goes to show you how much information one can glean from
this game.  Guess it also proves that re-reading your notes just might be the
ticket :).
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 81        Mon Apr 06, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 13:02 EDT
 
I have explored the area in 3 and found some small blank spots but no way too
them.  You must have to climb up to get the cup. Anyone have the W rune?  It
is the only one I lack. How about the keys?  I have truth & courage..what is
the third and where is it?
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 82        Mon Apr 06, 1992
R.PRITCHARD1 [Randy]         at 18:50 EDT
 
Is the taper of sacrifice necessary for finishing the game?  I bought and used
it for light, and then threw it away, not knowing what it was.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 83        Mon Apr 06, 1992
D.DORBUCK [ZAPHOD]           at 20:11 EDT
 
Kami,
        You seem to be the guy who has the game under his belt, What gives
with the sword on level 3 ?? I have part of it (blade) where's the hilt ?? If
it's farther down i.e lvl 4 or 5 , then dont tell me.
 If not PLEASE enlighten me.
                            Thanks
                                Zaphod

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 84        Mon Apr 06, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 21:21 EDT
 
Zaphod, ask Ishtass about the sword. He will tell you but only after you show
him proof that you found Ossikkas remains.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 85        Mon Apr 06, 1992
R.CURTICE [Bruin Father]     at 22:22 EDT
 
Kami,

   1. Thanks for the hints.  I'll go try it out now.
   2. You must be crazy from playing this game too long.  I'll try
      something else.

  I've fought my way back up and searched all over the area and couldn't find
any extra rooms or secret doors in that area.  Maybe my search ability wasn't
high enough.

JB,
  Did you return Tom's picture to Judy?  If you haven't found it, you better
ask a prisoner for directions.

Randy,
  Find that taper!  You won't finish the game without it.

Zaphod,


  (You said don't tell if you find it later)

Assassin

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 86        Mon Apr 06, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 22:45 EDT
 
Zaphod,

OK, I won't enlighten you. :^)

Randy,

After returning the Taper to Trisch (Knight on level 4) she will let you keep
it and ENLIGHTEN you as to its properties.

Dan,

Thanks, but I'm just the lowly son of my peasant mother :^)!
 I do have another theory, but as I'm still figuring out level 7/8, maybe
someone else can try it.  Play Mardin's Song of Wonder where you think the cup
should be.  If it works, let me know!  BTW, if you want *really* complete
notes, use a tape recorder.  I take notes as I walk through the Abyss, then
transcribe them later.  As a side benefit, it gives you a chance to look at
the pieces as a whole, instead of as a single piece of information or a single
object.

JB,

If you find Ossikka (or what's left of him!) then Ishtass on level 3 will give
you WIS.  Talk to him for clues as to Ossikka's whereabouts.

IN BET LOR,

Kami

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 87        Mon Apr 06, 1992
A.LANGE2 [Alan D.]           at 23:20 EDT
 
I still haven't got the orb on level 2 to work yet. I must have a blind spot
in my thinking.
 I did kill the golem in the treasure room, got about 132 EXP and a bunch of
treasure. Nothing bad seems to have happened.
  Alan
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 88        Mon Apr 06, 1992
E.GOLDMAN [edg]              at 23:46 EDT
 
Someone please tell me that Judy doesn't have something important
 that will prevent finishing the game!  I don't have a save gave
 before I pushed her (it was an accident I swear!) into the lava.  I
 went back to check for her an she's nowhere to be found so I assume
 she's toast.

I'm most of the way thru level 6 already and don't really want to start over. 
Can anyone tell me what exactly she's supposed to have?

-edg-
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 89        Mon Apr 06, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 23:57 EDT
 
  Well, I followed instructions re: the ring of humility, but it didn't work. 
I must be missing something here.  I've messed with the levers quite  bit, so
maybe they have to start in a specific pattern as well.  Or am I forgetting
something else?  I don't think it's possible to be more explicit about how to
get this damn thing, but any suggestions would be appreciated.
  Same goes for the secret door in the frog-wand room.  I set the switches and
tried jumping through the area in question (I can even see the outline of the
door on the wall), but didn't get through.  I even tried flying through it.  I
had thought this was like the 'between the eyes' thing on level 6, but maybe I
misunderstood.

   Also, is there anything beyond the locked door in the troll area? I'd just
as soon skip it if it's not essential to finishing the game.

  Thanks,
    KG

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 90        Mon Apr 06, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 23:59 EDT
 
Kami,
  Well I can't find the cup, and I have no clue of where to look now.  I'm
almost positive it is in the room where the gazer was, but there seems to be
nothing in there.  Until I find that cup I can't finish the game!!!!!!!  I
can't continue without it.

  What have you tried doing?  I used the roaming sight and couldn't find any
other rooms in that area.  I checked all of the walls.  I even tried looking
in the grate and drain.

Assassin

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 91        Tue Apr 07, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 00:11 EDT
 
Kami,
  I would try playing the song,  but I never seemed to run across it in my
travels.  The onyl song I got it the troll song.  Do I need the song or does
it just tell you the notes?  If it lists the notes, tell them to me and I'll
try it out.

edg,
  Sorry but you have to start over.  Judy gives you part of a key that lets
you into the "pit" and without it you can't finish the game.

Assassin
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 92        Tue Apr 07, 1992
D.HAN [DAN]                  at 00:28 EDT
 
Ah-ha!  Okay, so Judy gives you one piece of the key.  Can someone drop hints
about the other 2 pieces?  (btw, someone mentioned the prisoners know where
Tom's picture is.  Which prisoners?  The one's on level 7?).  

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 93        Tue Apr 07, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 00:28 EDT
 
thanks KAMI, I talked to ishtass, but didn't perform that quest.  do you
remember exactly where Ossilka was and what I need to return to prove it?

EDG: You need Judy, she has an item you have to have.

Inventory bug strikes... It got me too.  I put it to use though and deposited
the talismans and keys in my possesion and created a huge supply of wands and
potions thru it.  then fixed it and put my inventory back leaving a nice
stash. In my case I think I had too many items in my backpack and it freaked
out. I had MUCHO small light itmes (keys, etc) in it and I think this caused
th problem.  So watch your packs!
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 94        Tue Apr 07, 1992
W.CULBERTSO2 [Will]          at 00:41 EDT
 
Ok, I have been playing this infernal game for about 5 days and have finally
had enough of the little bits missing!

Numerous people have mentioned a song to play, I haven't seen anything of the
sort except for the troll song.

Who knows where the picture of Tom is? Dan, msg.92, echos my sentiments on who
knows about this and the other keys.

Does anyone know where the grave is to bury the bones of the person in your
dreams. I killed Tybell and was told to find the bones and bury them is the
right place. I haven't fully explored level 8 but so far I have found no clue.

I've finished most of the rest of the puzzles if people need help in exchange
for what I need.

        Will C.

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 95        Tue Apr 07, 1992
S.BAKER26 [V'ger]            at 01:12 EDT
 
Dear JB,

        How did you fix the inventory problem w/o going back to a previous
save? Also, approx. how many things did you have in your pack to trigger the
event?


                                Con mucho gusto,

                                V'ger gone
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 96        Tue Apr 07, 1992
J.SALISBURY [.BADGER.]       at 01:29 EDT
 
Thanks very much for the solution to the bullfrog puzzle. Managed to get past
it by turning/pushing until I raised a big platform, then levitated to the two
accesses. For whoever is wondering, the one to the SE is a wall that you just
walk through - should show as a passage entrance on your map. Has anyone
managed to use the dragon scales? I have them, but you can't seem to use them
or wear them (or eat them!). Walking on lava just sucks down the vitality.
Also, I learned to play the flute from Eyesnack in the goblin area, but can't
seem to figure out where to play it. I tried in  the High State Chamber, at
Sir Cabirus grave, at the blocked stairway, at both sides of the blocked
passage in E side of level 5. Don't know where else to try. Other questions:
(1) what good did it do to kill the ghost in the SE corner of level 5, other
than if you want a battleaxe, (2) has anyone unblocked any of the caved in
stairs or passages? (3) in the transporter, I found a scroll that sends you to
level 3 where slugs guard a moonstone - what do you do with the moonstone?
Thanks for any help. BTW, for whoever was looking for the X rune, it was by
one of the waterfalls on level 4, just swim N and then west - it was in a
chest.
           Jeff
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 97        Tue Apr 07, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 02:28 EDT
 
  Ok, figured out the frog room thing...

  Whoever needed the tune for the flute:  it's 354237875.

  As for Tom's picture, try talking to some prisoners about it...

   KG

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 98        Tue Apr 07, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 02:47 EDT
 
V'ger: Actually I don't know.  I had a save game that had the other 2 parts of
the infinity key, I went to judy several times to get the third and evry time
the other 2 parts diappeared.  This time I stopped before talking to her and
looked in my inventory...it freaked out and I  rebooted...I tried again, this
time dropping the 2 parts and found infinite wands/potions in a never ending
scroll on my lower inventory. I threw them out and they were constantly
replaced.  Then went back to yop of inventory for that backpack and threw out
some items, and boom all the weird stuff disappeared.  very strange, oh well,
I have a  permanent supply of wands by Judy now. :^)

Jeff: As far as I know this is only a shortcut back to the top.  There is a
spell which does the same thing. (IE send you to moonstone) ] Still, looking
for the cup, the bones, and place to put them. Never played the song in right
spot either...

Used the infinity key and saw that it will probably be one of the last things
to do. BTW, someone asked of other two parts, go to NW part of lev 7 over lava
and thru locked door to access stairs that seem to gar as far as level 3 you
will acquire one part of the key in this area, the other I found not long
after.. though I forget where.
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 99        Tue Apr 07, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 02:48 EDT
 
Kami,
  You were right.  After getting the notes from Eyesnack (Ican't believe I
never ran into him even though I explored the whoel area!) I used it at that
spot and it worked.

  For those who want the song it is 354237875

Dan,
  The prisoners I referred to were in the NW of level seven.  These prisoners,
however are locked in rooms that can only be accessed with a skull key from
Tyball.  One of them knows about part of the key and another has the picture
of Tom.

Will,
  Do you remeber coming accross a large cemetary a few levels up? It should
have been one of the first graves you came across.  When you get there, 
you'll know which grave is his if you look at the headstones.

Jeff,
  You can use the moonstone any way you want!  I often used it as an escape
mechanism.  I left it outside an area I knew/thought I would be trapped in and
then when I wanted to get out,  I just used a Gate Travel scroll/spell.  I
even once threw it onto a high ledge and teleported up.

All,
  After many hours, I finally finished the game.  The ending was STRANGE! 
You'll see when I mean.  No voices though.  What a bummer (that and the
passing of Asimov...)

Assassin

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 100       Tue Apr 07, 1992
W.CULBERTSO2 [Will]          at 04:23 EDT
 
Well I finally finished it at 1am 5 days after I bought it. I agree with
Assassin in that the ending is truely twisted. I can't wait for Ultima VII
because now I have nothing to do but go to school.

        Will C.

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 101       Tue Apr 07, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 04:30 EDT
 
Assassin,

Congratulations! I believe you are the first to post finishing the
 game (for real!) here on GEnie.  Just don't make it too easy for the
 rest of us (HA!).  I still have a ways to go (have had some other
 things to do over the weekend!)  I guess your primed and ready to go
 for Ultima VII now, huh?

KG,

If you set all the levers to the same position (down works) then exit the
room, come back, operate them (NW,SE,NE,SW) and walk the walls (I never
stopped bumping into them!) you should get the ring. I tried this with my Ring
of Humility saved game and it works every time, no matter how badly the levers
were mixed up before.

The jump in the frog area is about right IF YOU HAVE THE RING OF LEAP!  The
ring is in the room just west of the southern entrance to the level.  It's the
one with all the broken weapons and bones in it.  Look next to the two
boulders.

You need what's behind the locked door if you want to become a Knight.

JB,

From the room where you met Ishtass, go east to the bridge.  Jump off and swim
(or walk if you don't like getting wet!) east, following the south wall. 
You'll come to an area accessible only by water, where you'll find a note
Ossikka was carrying, along with his bones and a few runestones.  Give the
note to Ishtass.

That damn inventory bug got me too.  Luckily, I have so many saved games (14
Megs worth!) that I didn't have to back up far to get a clean save.  I think
that your right about putting too many things in the pack.  I tried your
method, and it didn't work for me.  I lost my Ring of Leap and my Sword of
Accuracy along with all my keys.  Got the SPEL item and a few other crazy
things instead.  I think it all started when I dropped an item in the tomb of
Cabirus and saw it disappear into thin air.  That should have clued me in to
the problem.  Oh well.

Badger,

The dragon scales are used down a level from where you got them. Talk to the
ghouls about it.  One can make you something from them.

The only time you can unblock a cave in is if you can see through it. (like in
the mine on level 2!)

IN BET LOR,

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 102       Tue Apr 07, 1992
D.HAN [DAN]                  at 07:32 EDT
 
Whoops, seems I was quick to post a message about the 3 part key.  After I
posted it, I figured out what to do.  Thanks for the response though  (at
least we know you're out there!).  

BTW, did anyone stumble upon the writing on the wall in level 8 that says
"Thou canst not defeat the Drakhri"?  Hmm, since when did the Kilrathi ever
visit Britannia?  :)  (if you remember, Wing Commander 2 had radio chatter in
which certain Kilrathi, upon destruction, would yell "You cannot defeat the
Drakhri!")

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 103       Tue Apr 07, 1992
ORIGIN                       at 09:56 EDT
 
EDG,
    If Judy is dead then try reinstalling the game and copy your save game
back into the directory. This will reset the characters.

Allan

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 104       Tue Apr 07, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:53 EDT
 
 

 Regarding the Crystal Ball on Level 2 (the one, when you LOOK
 at gives a vision of some grey sphere in the middle with a bunch
 of green worms guarding it), are we supposed to do something
 OTHER than just look at it?


 Jeff T.





 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 105       Tue Apr 07, 1992
E.GOLDMAN [edg]              at 22:11 EDT
 
Origin[Allan],

Sorry, I don't see how copying the save game would restore Judy.

There's 4 files in each directory:

bglobals
 player.dat
 desc
 and lev.ark

I presume lev.ark basically has all the levels saved that I've been
 through (including a dead judy).  How can I copy this over to a new
 installation of UW and reset her character?  I've tried this and of
 course she's still gone.

Are you saying just copying the player.dat file?  Seems like this
 might leave me with my current stats (and possessions?) but I'll
 still need to start over again <sigh>.

-edg-
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 106       Tue Apr 07, 1992
E.GOLDMAN [edg]              at 22:46 EDT
 
Allan,

Well, I think I see what I need to do to restore Judy:

o start a brand new game and save it.
 o continue playing my current game until I find Tom's Picture.
  And go back to where Judy is supposed to be.
 o save this game.
 o copy the player.dat file from this last position to the save
  game dir of the brand new game.  This has the effect of
  transporting my existing character with all stats and possessions
  right to lev 5 which has been reset (as have all the other levels
  which now are completely blank on my maps).
 o give judy the picture.  get the key from her.
 o save this game.  then copy the player.dat back to my real game
  where I should now have the key and can continue merrily on my
  way ...

I there's anything else you can tell me about this, please do.
 I much appreciate you're initial suggestion which prompted me to
 investigate this.  It really would have sucked to start over....

-edg-

ps.  Should I copy the globals file too?  Don't what it does.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 108       Wed Apr 08, 1992
W.CULBERTSO2 [Will]          at 00:33 EDT
 
Sengar,

        I have one word of advice when fighting this guy...

        !!!!!!!!!RUN!!!!!!

        Will C.


 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 109       Wed Apr 08, 1992
SENGAR                       at 01:03 EDT
 
Well, I discovered my error. Turns out I hadn't properly buried Garamon. Once
I had done that, everything else was a snap.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 110       Wed Apr 08, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 03:09 EDT
 
JT,

The crystal ball is showing you the inside of a secret room.  You just need
the right spell to get there.

Save the game before you do, though.  You may not like the results!

READ THIS BACKWARD for the SPOILER:

.enotsnoom a si llab latsyrc eht ni tcejbo ehT
 .lleps levart etag eht esU
 .llorcs levart etag a esu rO
 .sllab latsyrc retho era erehT
 .enotsnoom eht ot uoy dnes ynlo lliw lleps levart etag A

IN BET LOR,

Kami (Chuckle!)

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 111       Wed Apr 08, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 04:09 EDT
 
Kami-
  Thanks.  Turns out I was just hitting the wrong spot on the wall in the frog
area.  I ended up just levitating around the general area until I got it
right.
  I could care less about becoming a knight, unless there's something
important to gain by it.  Is there?  If not, I'm going to head back down to
level 8 and grind through some more hack n slash (yawn).
   KG
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 112       Wed Apr 08, 1992
ORIGIN                       at 09:46 EDT
 
EDG,
    The only time that this has happend is when someone else killed Judy, not
the player. I had him reinstall and it restored Judy back into the game. If
you killed Judy then that would be saved in the data in your save game. It
looks lik you will need to start over. The idea about copying the files sounds
like it should work. The only ones you need to copy are the ones in the save
game directory.

      Allan

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 113       Wed Apr 08, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 20:06 EDT
 
 

 Kami:  Hmmm.  I'm still at level 3, and am missing the VAS rune
  for the lleps levart etag so I can't use those crystals balls
  just yet, or SHOULD I have obtained the VAS rune by level 3???

 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 114       Wed Apr 08, 1992
R.NEDWICK [Robb]             at 21:05 EDT
 
 

I've collected nearly all of the artifacts so far, but I'm having
 trouble with getting the hilt to the sword.  I know that it's
 in the tombs, but how to I get into them?  I've mapped out the level,
 and talked to people on the level, so I know about where the entrance
 should be, but I can't find it.  My search skill is pretty high, and
 casting reveal doesn't show anything new?  So where is the
 entrance?  Or is there some way to teleport in that I just haven't
 found yet?

Robb
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 115       Wed Apr 08, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 22:43 EDT
 
There are 2 doors on Level 7 I have yet to find keys for.  Both are in the NE
quadrant of the map.  First door is located near center of map...there is a
north-south bridge that leads to the doorway. Second door is in NE corner of
map...is reached by going down to level 8 and then back up another ladder
which leads to this door. Help, I've looked for hours!
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 116       Wed Apr 08, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 22:55 EDT
 
Jeff T.,

You mean you don't have VAS yet! There must be hundred of those lying around
between level 1 and level 3 (grin)! Seriously, you'll have to wait until your
a bit farther down for VAS.  In the meantime, you should still be able to find
a llorcs levart etag!

Robb,

There are two ways into the tombs on level 5.  One is on the level, and the
other is from above.  Have you crossed the Bullfrog area on level 4?  Look up
while your in that area.  You should see one way in.

KG,

Well, I don't see anything in my notes that says you HAVE to become a Knight. 
They just give you a nice plate helm and open their armory to you.  Everything
you have to learn in the area does not depend on becoming a Knight.


 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 117       Wed Apr 08, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 23:43 EDT
 
I need some help finding the guys bones to bury...found lots of bones... How
do I know which ones are his? To those who have found the cup.  How about some
explicit help on getting to the proper room? I have the key and seen the
slasher...guess I just need the above 2 to finish?
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 118       Wed Apr 08, 1992
R.DEBOLD [Ginter]            at 23:56 EDT
 
 Having trouble with the imp and the maze, seems I know about the short-
 cut with the small map I found but can't get through a locked door, any
 hints?

                   Ginter
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 119       Thu Apr 09, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 00:54 EDT
 
J.Bowman: Garamon's bones are in the southwest portion of the map.  To get
there, travel west from your location at the stair and you'll have to float or
fly up to another section of the level.  You'll *know* Garamon's bones when
you see them (trust me).  This is from memory, so I'll have to re-look at my
notes to make sure...

The Cup of Wonders is on level 3, or should I say, to attain it you must be on
level 3.  Find the room where the gazer was (a room just west of the central
shrine.  The room that can only be reached by crossing water).   Play the
Mardin's Song of Wonder and it'll appear out of thin air.  I also believe this
room had a book that you needed to show Ishtass in order to receive the WIS
stone - the 'find Ossikka quest' -.

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 120       Thu Apr 09, 1992
KE.WILKINSON                 at 01:13 EDT
 
I believe I have Garamon's bones, but how do I bury them? Just to make sure
did the bones have a few runes lying with them? I know where to buy him, just
don't know how. So close, and yet so far.

                                 Kerry
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 121       Thu Apr 09, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 01:21 EDT
 
JB,

I haven't found the keys to those doors either, but I did use a sword to bust
them down!  Tried picking them, but they're too tough, and I can't use the
shrine anymore.

OK, I'm having some trouble now.  I can't seem to find that "secret" door in
the mines.  Any clues?  Don't give me a spoiler if you can avoid it!  I have
the "magic crystal".  Just point me in the right direction, please!  I've used
Roaming Sight, but no hint of the door appears.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 122       Thu Apr 09, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 01:37 EDT
 
Ginter,

Have you been to level 8 yet?  But wait, the key is on level 7!





SPOILER, (in case the hint was too obtuse)

NE corner of level 7, down the stairs to level 8, follow the right wall to
another stair up.  Look around, read the scroll you'll find there.  Did you
look under the skull?

SAVE YOUR GAME BEFORE YOU ENTER THE MA..z...

Kami

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 123       Thu Apr 09, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 02:45 EDT
 
JB,
  As Kami said,  just make like the L.A.P.D. and bash the door down. Also, as
previosuly said, the bones are quite obvious based on the surrounding items.

Kami,
 You don't have to look for the secret door.  If you have the crystal on you
(I don't remember if you have to be holding it or not), the secret door will
open automatically.

KG,
  The only important thing about becoming a knight is that the other knight
will now give you mantras that every knight should know.

Kerry,
  Just USE the bones and then click on the appropriate tombstone.

Assassin

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 124       Thu Apr 09, 1992
K.FONG1 [K.K]                at 21:45 EDT
 
Thanks for the help!!!

                                     K.K. :)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 125       Thu Apr 09, 1992
R.DEBOLD [Ginter]            at 21:52 EDT
 
I know where the maze is and have the key and everything, it's just I am
having trouble with the maze. Plus in a scroll I found with the key it said
there might be a way to bypass the maze. Well I am totaly confused about how
to and when do I know I completed the maze.

                     Ginter (totaly lost......dude)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 126       Thu Apr 09, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 22:27 EDT
 
Ginter,
  I assume you are talking about the maze on level 7.  To successfully get
through the maze, you need a crown that can be found elsewhere on level 7, 
but can only be reached by going to level 8 first.  If you want to bypass the
maze,  there is a secret door in the mines in the SE.  I didn't find it until
I was on the other side (already past the maze).

Assassin
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 127       Thu Apr 09, 1992
R.DEBOLD [Ginter]            at 23:25 EDT
 
Yea I went back to previous save and listened to the imp a little more closely
and finally figured out to get the crown, thanks anyways Assassin. Geeezzzz, I
got start paying attention to this game, no telling what I already missed....

Also I killed Tybol(?) and let the girl go, but this can't be the end I know
there must be somthing else to it, and what use is the orb I see there. Is the
one I'm suppose to destroy with the shard I have?

One more thing, is this big bad monster I let loose a lead in to Ultima VII?

                      Thanks again, Ginter
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 128       Thu Apr 09, 1992
A.LANGE2 [Alan D.]           at 23:56 EDT
 
I'm just starting level 6. I got the moonstone, had Caliburn repaired. On
level 3 there looks like there should be something in the NW that I'm not
seeing. On level 4 my map is blank for the NW corner and I can even hear some
things when I'm in the 3 secret rooms I found (like the one past the
silver/gold switches). Now on level 5 I can't get past the room of 4 switches.
I did it in the order that the treasurer told me, it was even confirmed here.
  Any suggestions?
   Alan
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 129       Fri Apr 10, 1992
R.PRITCHARD1 [Randy]         at 00:48 EDT
 
Has anyone else discovered the summon spell?  I came across it by accident. 
Kal Mani will summon another being.  I haven't really tried it in combat yet.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 130       Fri Apr 10, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 01:33 EDT
 
    I also seem to be having trouble finding those bones.  I've been to the SW
most part of level 8...lots of bones lying around, but nothing unique.  When
you look at the bones, does the description say anything other than "a pile of
bones"?  I've picked up some items on level 8 before I knew I'd be looking for
bones (like the amulet, ankh pendant).  Were the bones near these (wherever
that was...).  Ah hell, an explicit answer will do just fine.
    Also, I seem to run out of doors to bash down/unlock.  I'm still missing
the third part of the key...Any clues?
    Thanks,

  KG

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 131       Fri Apr 10, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 01:44 EDT
 
All,

Well, if you all have been waiting for a character editor, it may be here VERY
SHORTLY!  I was getting kind of burned out in the dungeon, so I spent a few
hours working on the PLAYER.DAT file.  Very clever, but simple, code.  I
should be able to post the editor by tomorrow (working on the user interface
now!).  I you can't wait, E-mail me for the decode/encode procedure.  It's
just too long to post here! You'll need a hexadecimal file editor and the
ability to do math in hex to use the procedure, though.

Alan D.,

You shouldn't worry about those areas in the NW corners of all levels from 3
on down to 6.  You'll find out why when you reach level 7.

Are you talking about the 4-lever room on level 6?  JUST STAY AGAINST THE
WALL!  Don't even look at the middle of the room until you have completed the
sequence.  The only other thing you may try is walking around the room in one
direction only.  If you don't succeed the first time, leave the room then try
again.  It took me three tries the first time I got the ring, but only one the
second time I got it (cause I had to start over).

Ginter,

Did you get the orb stones from level 8?  They look just like sling stones,
except they're a little darker (hard to tell with the contrast turned up!). 
NE corner, I believe.

IN BET WIS LOR,

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 132       Fri Apr 10, 1992
A.LANGE2 [Alan D.]           at 04:31 EDT
 
The middle. THE MIDDLE! I read it here, I was warned in the game, it seemed
such a small thing! Completely forgot to stay out of the middle (bashing
head). Thanks Kami :)
  Alan
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 133       Fri Apr 10, 1992
KE.WILKINSON                 at 18:46 EDT
 
I think I am close to the end. I have freed her, and have two of the three 
keys (love and courage). Where is the third? What does Folanae Famlo mean?
Arrrrgg. BTW thanks ASSASSIN.

                                Kerry
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 134       Fri Apr 10, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 19:34 EDT
 
assassin: Go up to 6 and talk to Illomo.
  JB
 ************
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 135       Fri Apr 10, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 21:19 EDT
 
Thanks for the help! I have all the talismans now and only need to get
Garamon's bones. I have already covered part of this area and picked up items,
etc. so I have nothing to refer to on the body.  Please explicit help on where
and what items are nearby.
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 136       Fri Apr 10, 1992
BLUE.GHOST                   at 21:31 EDT
 
 Can someone please help me to find the moonstone and also where can I find
VAS and REL runes for the gate travel spell.

Kami, I was wrong about having str 27 dex 20 int 18. It was 27, 20, 13. Your
right, it only goes up to 60 total. I'm playing with three different
characters on three save games and I guess I got the totals mixed up.


                               Ghost
                               ~~~~~
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 137       Fri Apr 10, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 21:50 EDT
 
  Ok, nevermind on those last two questions.  I found the third part of the
key, and figured out which bones were Garamon's.
  For anyone who has finished the game:  What do I tell Garamon? I've gone
over all my notes, but haven't got a clue.  Any suggestions where to find out
what I tell him would be much appreciated.
  I did find one way to kill the demon:  cast the spell the wisps give you. 
Kills everything except yourself (and by everything, I mean all monsters, all
items, all runes, EVERYTHING).

  KG

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 138       Sat Apr 11, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 01:23 EDT
 
JB,
  The bones are surrounded by runestones, and stuff like that.  If I remember
correctly,  they are in the NW part of that SW area.

KG,
  What have you been collecting the whole game?  (Type you answer using the
singular form of the word, not the plural.  For some reason the plural form of
the word isn't accepted even though it makes more sense than the singular!) 
For the second question,  just remember where you are.

Ginter,
  You must be tired after fighting the wizard (especially since you didn't
take away a lot of his powers first by taking out the orb).

Randy,
  I tried out the summon spell.  It seemed to pick a random NPC from the game
and bring him to you.  I had a nice conversation with one of the humans on
level one who told me all about that level (while I was on level 7).

Assassin
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 139       Sat Apr 11, 1992
R.DEBOLD [Ginter]            at 02:00 EDT
 
I see that I am not even close to finishing this game, even after killing the
wizard and saving the girl. I GOT to start paying attention.... ok any hints
on what to do next? I see I have to find someones bones and do something with
them, and collect some orbstones, and then there are parts of keys I have to
find....shesh I'm lost!

                             Ginter
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 140       Sat Apr 11, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 04:44 EDT
 
  Yeah, I should've thought of that first....thanks.

  I agree that the ending is a little offbeat, but I thought it was one of the
better elements to the game.  Really, there wasn't much here but a run of the
mill crpg with fantastic graphics.  Now that Origin has created a truly
incredible 3D graphics system to play with, perhaps they can sink more
time/money into design.

   KG

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 141       Sat Apr 11, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 06:20 EDT
 
I do think though that this game has much more story depth than either of the
Eye of the Beholder games or Dungeonmaster.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 142       Sat Apr 11, 1992
J.SALISBURY [.BADGER.]       at 11:49 EDT
 
Kami (and others) - I tried editing my strength value to allow me to carry
more stuff around. I could get the strength to change, but my carrying
capacity in stones always remained the same. I went from 12 up to 24 with no
change. I even tried unloading all of my items, then picking them back up to
see if it made a difference (it didn't). Any ideas?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 143       Sat Apr 11, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 12:47 EDT
 
 .BADGER. Leave your strentgh high (but less then 30)....the first time you
gain a level or say mantra's your carrying capacity will rise.
  JB
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 144       Sat Apr 11, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 12:50 EDT
 
Well I got to the end (thanks for the help all) and opened the gate.  The
slasher of veils went bye-bye...but then so did I! I got sucked into the same
place he did!  Anyone else have this happen? If this is cause of karma, I DO
NOT WANT TO START ALL OVER. Someone who has finished please send me some file
mail with a player.dat file that is saved near end of game.
  Thanks,
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 145       Sat Apr 11, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 21:34 EDT
 
J.Bowman (for his eye's only, unless you wanna know about the ending):

 You got sucked into the vortex as well, which is supposed to happen.  
 Remember the crystal ball on level one that mentioned something about
 a "green path" that you know leads to Britannia?  Okay, walk around till
 you find this green path and walk as far as you can go (you'll swear you
 were watching The Twilight Zone in this area).  When you reach the end
 of the path, enter the moongate and the game will proceed with the 
 victorious ending.

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 146       Sat Apr 11, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 21:35 EDT
 
Well, I have finished all of 1 and most of 2 and parts of 3, 4, and 5. Only
part left in lvl2 is north of a steel gate in Eastern area.  I can see a
switch on other side but canot reach it and cannot find any object or missile
to hit level with.  Any hints?
 2> I have repair skill of 9 but no anvil.  Do I take Shak's or is there
    another one somewhere?

 3> I have noticed that I can actually jump on top of other characters and
    stand on their head.  Probabaly intended to work that way, I just thought
    it was neat.  I may try to do that in combat if need to rest. 
 4> Is there a limit to how many days I can sleep before end of game?
    Rather than waiting in real time for Shak to repair stuff, it would
    be easier to just sleep but I didn't know if more sleep days count
    against me.   Thanks. 
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 147       Sat Apr 11, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 22:42 EDT
 
Yes, I noticed the "head-standing" myself.  Can come in handy if you want to
jump higher then the floor allows. Sleep all you want.  It shouldn't matter.
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 148       Sat Apr 11, 1992
J.BOWMAN1                    at 23:55 EDT
 
Yeah, finally got it.  Think it said I was 64 days in the abyss. Glad to
finish so I can clear space on HD and get ready for U7. Thanks Origin for a
great game.  Please make more along these lines of play.
  JB
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 149       Sun Apr 12, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 00:51 EDT
 
]B.Meier:

 I'll have to load the game to figure out exactly where the anvils are (I used
my notes with alpha locations, in conjunction with the automap). There's a
GRAV rune somewhere on level 4, but again, I'll have to load the game to
specifically find out where.  A FLAM rune can be found, I think  (I managed to
NOT write a note about this), on level 6, from one of the seers.  BTW, if you
have a 0 for repair skill, you're gonna break your weapon almost everytime
(let's just say, I _never_ was able to repair a weapon).  Well, thought I'd
let you know.  I'll be back with the answer to the anvils...

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 150       Sun Apr 12, 1992
K.FONG1 [K.K]                at 03:02 EDT
 
Hi, I am back with some more questions for you experts out here.

1) Where are those moonstones that mentioned before?  I am on level 5 now, and
I never seen one in the last 4.  Do they have anything to do with the orb
(crystal ball)?

2) Where is the second part of the sword?  I only got the blade. Also, where
should I fix the sword (don't tell me to go back up to level 2 and have Shak
fixed it, he's so far away)?

3) What is consider to be "high" for the skills?  I have 20 for attack, 11 for
defense, 13/14 for sword, 10 for search and picklock, 22 mana, and 18 lore. 
(This is a 13th level Druid)

4) Where can I find the VAS rune?  I can't cast Gate Travel without it.

5) According to Trish, the taper can regenerate itself while it's still
burning.  Does this mean the taper will never burn out?


                                        Still Surviving

                                             K.K.   :)

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 151       Sun Apr 12, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 04:49 EDT
 
KK:

 There's a moonstone somewhere on either level 2 or 3.  The only way you can
reach it is through a moongate spell or scroll.  One of the crystal balls
showed this room, wherein 2 green slugs were wandering and a black ball was
located (the moonstone).

 The second part of Sword Caliburn is located in the tombs of level 5. However,
these tombs may only be reached by solving the Bullfrog Puzzle room on level
4.  To piece the hilt and blade together, you must either repair it yourself
(I'm *guessing* you can do this), or do what I did  (and yes I'm gonna say
it), visit Shak on level 2.  Come on, it's not  -that- far :)

 Don't know what the max attributes for the skills are, but if it's anything
like your personal stats, then 30 might be the highest you can go.  I
completed the game, though I never had *any* skill reach 30, so you probably
are getting some high scores in there.  BTW, you've only got 3 more levels of
experience before you hit the max potential, so get ready to rap up your
visits to the shrines.

 To find a VAS rune, visit Gralwart on level 6.  He'll give you  directions on
where to find it.  READ ON IF YOU WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHERE:

  On level 6, from the 4way junction, head east.  Find the two
  columns aligned next to each other (you can easily find it from your automap. 
Run between these two columns and run into the
  wall you see ahead of you with the banner of eyes.  Run -smack-
  into this wall.  You'll then be transported to a special room
  where you can attain the VAS runestone.  To get this runestone,
  get an emerald (you'll find a lot in the center of this area) 
  and place one on each corner of the room, on the platforms 
  (these platforms are located above your head in the corners).

  Okay, after you place an emerald on each platform, head to
  to the center of this area and press the GRAY button.  Oh, I
  think I should tell you that to get _out_ of the room, well, 
  you'll run into your first question on this one... :)

 Okay, the Taper of Sacrifice will burn forever, so make good use of it!
Course, you might wanna use something brighter at times (the Taper, though

certainly neat, isn't the brightest thing around :).

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 152       Sun Apr 12, 1992
NOCTURNAL                    at 05:19 EDT
 
Ok....I've been reading hints on this many times and still lost.  Can s
somebody tell me, as close as possible, were the Garamon bones are?  I have
been looking all over the SW of the maps level 6-7-8, and nothing. Why am I
missing them???????? Somebody said its the one with all the rune around them,
but I collect everything from around there a long time ago. Any help would be
great...And please no cryptic clues, I want them BONES! :) (I prob have messed
up and will find out I need to look in the NW of  the map :)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 153       Sun Apr 12, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 10:49 EDT
 
There is a way to speed things up when waiting for Shak to repair an item for
you. After you give him what you want repaired, try repairing something
yourself on his anvil. Make it a dagger or something else you do not mind
losing if you destroy it. After you try that turn and talk to Shak and he will
have your item that you gave him repaired. I guess the game burns up about 30
minutes in game time while you use the anvil. I brought all my plate armor and
weapon/shield to him and only took me say two minutes of waiting to get them
repaired.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 154       Sun Apr 12, 1992
D.MCINTYRE1                  at 11:26 EDT
 
Since this is the spoilers board, could anybody point me in the right 
direction, as to what I'm supposed to be doing on levels7/8 of this thing? I
seem to be just wandering around lost, and usually end up in some pit or so I
can't get out of. Also is there a master key for this level so I don't have to
bash up a weapon to open every single door? I found a key guarded by a spider
that the lost mage was talking about, but it sure  doesn't open anything. I
got to Tybal's maze once, but apparently there are death traps all around and
I soon died. Also what do you need to do with the moonstone and  gate
traveling?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 155       Sun Apr 12, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 18:59 EDT
 
Well, I finally found a pole to get into Eastern area of lvl 2.  I saw room in
crystal ball & probably need gate spell to get there.  How far do I need to go
to get a gate scroll or the VAS and REL runes?  I have almost finished lvl 3
now.  I have next 2 days off then cannot play UU for another week  :( .  
Also, how high must my LORE be to correctly identify magical items? I have two
rings and increased my LORE to 9 and now get msg that I have a magical silver
ring and magical red ring.  One must be ring of Jump I heard about since I
jump much farther now.  Does anyone have a Mantra to raise just Lore? I would
really like to know the mantras for Lore and Axe.  I have found the following
mantras & spells not mentioned in prior appends:
   FAL - Mantra for Acrobat / tumbling.
   IN SANCT - a stronger "Resist Blows" than BET IN SANCT
   UUS POR  - Long Jump ---------- oh, one more thing:  The prisoner of lizard
people tries to say his name and garbles it.  Something line Uurghor.  When I
answer with same or  sound alike names, he turns away.  What is his name?  I
already gave him food.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 156       Sun Apr 12, 1992
J.PETRANOVI1                 at 19:57 EDT
 
 Where is the leader of the quiet ones (lizard men) named Ossihka to  found?  I
looked all over level 3, no luck.
 Iss'leck mentions him and the mad wizard, but I haven't been able to get any
hint of them.
       Jim
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 157       Sun Apr 12, 1992
J.KYLE2                      at 20:54 EDT
 
I would like to know where the courage key is, it is the last thing I need. I
also need to get this hard drive sucking creature off my  computer. Please
help?   will remember you in my will..... /s
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 158       Sun Apr 12, 1992
NOCTURNAL                    at 21:34 EDT
 
Beside the question I had before of where the dang bones are,(which I still
have not found!), what do I do with the crystal shard. I found no use for it
,but I keep it with me anyways.  

Kyle2,  I believe you have to talk with Illomo on LVL6(wizard level) about
folanae. Not sure if thats the right key though...
 ------------
Message 159       Sun Apr 12, 1992
S.SHEPHERD1                  at 23:44 EDT
 
I haven't read all the previous messages, so forgive me if this is an old
question, But do I HAVE to give the troll his wormy stew? I left the recept
upstairs somewhere. Dumb design feature, if you have to have something Like a
recepty from a goblin. I wrote the ingredients down. Thans
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 160       Mon Apr 13, 1992
D.MCINTYRE1                  at 00:31 EDT
 
Yes, you actually need the recepie to use it. You don't get your VAS rune
until level 6. You are giving the food to the wrong creature :-) I don't
really know what the prisoner's name is, but I don't suppose it matters much.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 161       Mon Apr 13, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 03:25 EDT
 
I found Ossikka's bones & told Ishtass.  Now I have names for all my magic
stuff using the name spell.  I have hundreds of weapons from first 3 lvls.
should I be doing reveal name on all that stuff to see if special? Anyway, I'm
just about done with lvl 3 and have two questions:
  1> Where is the %*$#(#%$& entrance to thieves hideout behind the store-
     room?  I assume it means the east stor room at bottom center of map.
     I checked both east and west.  There are vine-covered and moss-
     covered irregular stone walls.  I tried to "Use" every brick on every
     wall of both rooms and the other areas around the blank area on SE
     of lvl 3 map.  I found lockpick and gold key in area and also used
     them on each area of the wall.  I'm tired of searching for this 
     hidden room.  I have spent an hour on it.  Since I found a note 
     outside the storeroom that mentioned the secret room, it should be
     pretty easy.  This seems to be a usability problem.  Should I be 
     using the "use" function to find/open a hidden door?  I have low
     search skill.  No hidden door outline appears on my map either.  The
     switch on wall at top NW area of map had no effect on this (or any-
     thing else).  Please Help!
  2> I have all the ingredients for Rotworm stew (including the worm). I
     saw someone just append that it is needed.  Do I need to take stew
     up to lvl 1 to goblin or will someone else want it later? Thanks.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 162       Mon Apr 13, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 04:19 EDT
 
Nocturnal-
  (EXPLICIT ANSWER RE: BONES)
      I believe the bones are in the absolute SW corner of level 8. You cannot
get any further SW than that.  I think it's a dead end. Also, there's no
indication that you have the right bones-- a name enchantment spell doesn't
even do it.  To be safe, you could pick up all the 'pile of bones' in the SW
area (there's only three or four I believe), and try to bury them all.
       As for the shard, there's a mage on level 7 that tells you about it. 
To be honest, I don't remember ever using it at all to finish the game.
   KG

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 163       Mon Apr 13, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 06:40 EDT
 
Soulcutter,

The higher your lore, the more potent the identification.  At lore=15 or so,
you should be able to identify most magical items.  I bumped my lore up to 30,
and I still can't identify all the potions. Many still say "A magical
red/green potion."

I E-mailed you the complete list of mantras, since you asked...

You really don't need to know the prisoner's name.  Just free him. You'll find
out his real name later.

The door to the thieve's hideout is in the NE corner of the north wall in the
east storeroom.  You may not be clicking low enough to trigger it.  Also, try
LOOKing for the doors.  This worked well for me when I had a low search skill.
If a door was anywhere in a section of wall, LOOKing made it appear on the
map, even if all I saw was a wall.

Jim,

Ossikka (or what's left of him) may be found by going east from the Ishtass'
room.  Just follow the southern wall.  Hope you can swim!

D.MCINTYRE1,

Who DID you give the wormy stew to?  I gave it to the troll on level 4.  You
don't NEED what he gives you, but it sure takes the heat off a hot situation!
:)

All,

Well, the character editor is almost done.  I wouldn't have tried it if it
weren't for my (long unused) hacker instincts.  Figuring out the code and the
initial stats was easy.  Figuring out Level, character class, handedness,
picture, sex, time, and dungeon level was a little harder.  I'm still trying
to iron out carrying ability (two bytes, not one!) and evil/good.  It would be
nice to see if your karma has been irreparably damaged, wouldn't it?  Hmm, if
I work on it a little more, maybe I can upload it tomorrow, for sure!

(crossing my fingers behind my back),

Kami

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 164       Mon Apr 13, 1992
NOCTURNAL                    at 06:48 EDT
 
KG, Thanks...that did it.  There were no bones in that corner but I just
grabbed all the bones in the whole SW area.  Don't know which did it but I got
the right ones.  

Finally did beat the game...(some how during teh game I had a plain cup and
not the real one..but got the real one soon after) And yes that was a strange
ending!!!  Even though I did edit my guy(doing so only allowed the combat to
be easier,not the puzzles) BUt I have to say this was the best dungeon game I
have ever played!!!!  Even though I beat it, I know I will go back to a saved
game and run around the place killing everybody (just so fun running around
this place!) 

Never did find a use for the crystal, unless it was automatic usage just
having it.  And thought it was strange that the book was called B.O. 
Honesty,(not truth) and sword of justice not caliburn)  Was confused  cause I
was looking for truth and cali)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 165       Mon Apr 13, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 11:13 EDT
 
Okay guys, where is that [unmenitionable] Mani rune? I found Ylem along with
an empty box on that little dock (?) next to the green goblins, but so far
Mani has eluded me...and I'm getting hungry!! 

            Best,
             - Scorpia
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 166       Mon Apr 13, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:45 EDT
 
 

 Gee Scorp, there's plenty of food spread around.  Never had to
 use that Create Food spell yet....


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 167       Mon Apr 13, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 19:31 EDT
 
Yeah well, the less food I have to carry, the more space I have for other
things. Besides, I haven't found all that much so far. And even more besides,
I want to know where that rune is! So why couldn't you just mention where you
found it? 

            Best,
             - Scorpia
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 168       Mon Apr 13, 1992
J.KYLE2                      at 21:20 EDT
 
Just finished, Thanks for the hints. Wierd ending but good.... Well it's about
time for Eye of the Beholder 3.... till then.. back to earth
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 169       Mon Apr 13, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 22:04 EDT
 
Well, I delivered wormy stew, mapped most of lvls 3 and 4.  FYI, I dont think
the bullfrog puzzle needs to be solved for mages.  I just levitated to the
ledge and to the secret door.  However, in the silas maze, I found secret
doors leading south to a locked door with a switch on either side. I have no
key for this door.  Does anyone know where the key is for this or how to work
the two switches?  I have tried all possible single combi- naitions with the 2
switches.  The only other places the key could be on that level that I have
not reached is in the armory in the Knights area (locked) and in a chest on a
small piece of land between the waterfalls (also locked). I think  I can
finish the level once I get a key from one of those two  areas. --------------
Thanks!
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 170       Mon Apr 13, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 23:33 EDT
 
Scorp:  The MANI rune should be in the box with the YLEM rune you found.  It
brings me to this question; You didn't happen to USE the box anywhere near the
water, did you?  Sometimes the game likes to drop things in the  water for you
when you do this.  Not too sure if there are other MANI runes around, since
when I take my notes, I only write down one occurence of a rune and disregard
writing down duplicates.  Sorry :(.

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 171       Tue Apr 14, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 00:05 EDT
 
Nocturnal,
  The crystal shard automatically opens up a passageway in the mines in the NW
area of level seven.  It lets you into the Dwarves' graveyard.  I don't think
there was anything important in there, just some armour and junk like that.

KG,
  I'm pretty sure that the bones are in the very NW in that SW area. I'd have
to boot the game back up to be sure....

Scorpia,
  Shouldn't we be asking YOU questions????  As Dan said,  you should have
gotten a Mani stone in that box.  Don't worry though.  There are many
duplicate stones to be found.  I seem to remember a Mani stone in a chest on
level 2 by a crystal ball.

Kami,
  No wonder I could only get marginal increases in my carrying capacity!  Are
some of the stats located in the level.arc file.  It seemed that the max
vitality was stored there while current vitality was located in the player.dat
file.  I never did find where the class was stored...

Assassin

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 172       Tue Apr 14, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 00:12 EDT
 
Soulcutter,

If you look at the two tombstones in the Knights' Enclave, you should be able
to figure out how to open that door.
 (I think this it the fourth time I posted this answer, BTW.)

That chest has no key.  Just shelve your weapon and bash it open with your
fists!

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 173       Tue Apr 14, 1992
K.SETO4 [Ken]                at 00:12 EDT
 
Scorp,

  I'm pretty sure that the mani rune is found with the ylem
 rune in a small box on the dock that you mention...can the
 rest of you guys confirm this?  Anyways..I've found the mani
 rune in several places from lv2 - 4 ..
  Sorry I can't remember EXACTLY where..don't worry, it's not
 a _rare_ item.
  By the way, what do you think of the game so far? It looks like
 you just got started! Hoo boy..you've got MANY hours ahead of
 you! :)


p.s.  I think you should stop reviewing anything that resembles
 an SSI gold box game. :)
  Will someone please tell that company to get off their butts
 and _DO_ something new?
  I think they win the record for most overused game engine!



Ken

p.p.s Kami:
        Remember that room on level 4 with the skeletons? and the
    4 levers that are really high on the walls?  I found a secret
   door to get out of the room..but DO the levers DO anything other
   than helping you get out of the room?

   Also...what are the EXACT powers of the various artifacts?
  I've found everyone EXCEPT for the cup...
  Just wondering what the Wine and the Book does..


 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 174       Tue Apr 14, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 00:54 EDT
 
Scorpia,

As Assassin said, MANI is in a locked chest in the NE area of level 2.  From
the central shaft of the volcano, go east down the wide passage until you see
a door going north.  Go north to a portcullis. The chest is in the room beyond
(don't go there weak!).

Assassin,

Hmm, you say that current vitality is in LEVEL.DAT?  That may explain the
strange results I've been getting with manipulating the two bytes in
PLAYER.DAT that seem to be for vitality and maximum vitality.  I've also had
problems with mana rolling over if I set it too high.  I'll look into it. 
Class is stored in byte 101.  It's the 3 upper bits of the byte.  The 3 bits
below it are the portrait, followed by a bit for sex and a bit for handedness.
BTW, its definite - byte 188 IS your "karma".  I spent a few minutes killing
friendlies on level 2, and it dropped like a rock from 255 down to 231.  And,
yes, it does go down for killing anything that does not say "A hostile ...." 
I'm including a "karma booster" in the editor, should your karma be too evil,
but I don't know how the game will accept it.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 175       Tue Apr 14, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 01:05 EDT
 
Ken,

The room of levers on level 4 has an area that is up near the top of the room.
If you're playing with a non-magic user, then you might have to use a missile
weapon to trip the levers so you can get to the area in the SW corner of that
room.  Of course, I preferred just to slug it out with the skeletons (I needed
the experience points at the time!), then use telekinesis to trip the levers. 
I guess I could have just levitated to the area, but I had mana to burn at the
time.

As I still haven't finished the game (savoring the moment?), I really can't
say what the wine, the cup, or the book do, but maybe those that have finished
can enlighten you as to their ultimate purpose.

Well, back to putting the finishing touches on the character editor.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 176       Tue Apr 14, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 02:45 EDT
 
Thanks for the info, guys. It turns out that Danny was right about the game
thoughtfully dumping one of the runes into the water. First time (EARLY on) I
came to the box, I just opened it without picking it up. One rune showed, and
the box was empty. As a check, I created a new character and just ran her past
the nasty goblin and around the corner to the dock. Picked up the box, looked
inside: sure enough, two runes. ARGGHHHH!!

Since I was on the verge of making level 5, and not wanting to go through all
the trouble of starting over, I decided to stick with the loss and keep going.
Good to know there are other Mani (Mani more? ;) runes around.

I also got hit with one game lockup, and the infamous inventory bug. The
lockup occured when fighting the gobs by the stairs down. One was dead and I
was close to killing the other when...GAK! Did it all over again, no lockup on
the second (well, actually, third, I was getting trashed and restored ;), only
a check of my inventory showed one bag held nothing but a worn axe (which
shouldn't even have been there).

So I went back to my next-to-latest restore and discovered I had to fight the
nasty spider (the one across the bridge) all over again (AND the two goblins,
of course).

By the way, the first time I fought that spider, it seemed to have fallen into
the water. We were duking it out on the bridge, and suddenly the thing was
just gone. That made life easier (heh), but I don't think I got any exp for
it, since when I restored and went after it the second time, I got enough to
go up to level 5.

               Best,
                - Scorpia
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 177       Tue Apr 14, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 03:42 EDT
 
Assassin-
  You're probably right.  I picked up and dropped so many things looking for
those damn bones I probably dropped them in that corner and later 'found' them
again.
  KG

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 178       Tue Apr 14, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 07:35 EDT
 
Well, I finally uploaded the character editor tonight.  It should be available
as soon as it clears GEnie's final QA.  It will let you change any skill,
increase carrying ability, give you oodles of mana and vitality, and will also
let you see what your karma really is. Have fun, and don't cheat too much!

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 179       Tue Apr 14, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 08:57 EDT
 
Thanks for the info on the dots.  I remember writing them down but forgot
about them :(.   Anyway, i busted the chest open for runes and found another
little rune back sitting in a hallway nich.  Since Im on lvl 4 and still dont
have VAS, NOX, FLAM, TYM, or EX, I may have missed some others.  NOX would
come in handy cause I keep getting poisoned. ------- Anyway, lvl 4 just about
done.  I still don't have the sword blade half that a character told me to
find in the SE corner.  I still can't get into SE area.  I had hoped I could
once I got into thief store room but it was a dead end.  Can the SE corner of
LVL 3 be accessed from lvl3? I upped my SEARCH skill to 9 but found no more
doors.  Thanks.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 180       Tue Apr 14, 1992
H.YU1 [GOO]                  at 16:00 EDT
 
can someone please help me out?  I've just buried Garamon's bones, and I don't
know which word shoould I reply him.  I saw a message before which stated the
word is what i've been collecting in the whole game.  But, can someone give me
a little more specific answer.   Please!!!!!
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 181       Tue Apr 14, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:58 EDT
 
 

 Well, how does one get out of the area in the SE of Level 5
 that has the Dire Ghost with the key that unlocks the tomb
 of Nolant?  When I walk in, the portcullis locks me in...


 I ran into a bug, if it is one.  Going into the mines with all
 those glowing blue gems, I seemed to have activated an
 "auto-pickup" mode, in which the gems would automatically appear
 in my pack when I walked into them, regardless whether the pack was
 open or closed.
 Eventually I had something like 50+ gems in the pack, and I wasn't
 picking up the gems, or had the "pick" option selected. I later
 closed the pack and clicked on the chain to review my
 stats and the stats screen had weird colors and lines displayed all
 across it.   Anyone else run into this bug?


 The mines also had a Gate Travel scroll.  When I clicked on it,
 it took me to the room with the moonstone.  There was another
 scroll there, and when I clicked ON that scroll, it said
 "moonstone" not available and I was basically stuck in that room
 with the moonstone and Green Peteroos spraying acid at me...
 I tried using the moonstone, but no dice...

 Scorpia:  Unless you sleep a lot, food is not really a pressing
 concern.



 This game is hell on my mouse.  Anyone know what the runes for
 a "Mousepad Rejuvenation Spell" are?



 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 182       Tue Apr 14, 1992
D.MCINTYRE1                  at 21:30 EDT
 
 Umm, lets scroll back and see what all the questions are. 
 Garamon's ghost wants to know about what you have been colecting the
 whole game. They seem to be pretty powerful.
 The blue rocks are self attracting. There are 83 in the mines, and one
 NPC seems to want 80 of them, and he will explain them all to you when
 you meet him.
 There is a secret door in the moonstone room that you just run through
 to get out. The gate travel spells will take* you to the moonstone.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 183       Tue Apr 14, 1992
C.HOOD1 [Chris Hood]         at 22:17 EDT
 
OK!

I've HAD IT!!! I could get EXTREMELY rude, but I'm going to try to control
myself.

Could SOMEONE  * P L E A S E *  post the locations of the three parts of the
Infinity Key.  I've located the Key of Love and the Key of Truth.  This third
$%^@#*& key is the only thing keeping me from finishing this (UNPRINTABLE)
game!!!

I figure I must have missed talking to someone somewhere.


Also, what's this about a crystal shard. Another piece of arcanery that I feel
left out on.


  Hoodwinker

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 184       Tue Apr 14, 1992
S.BAKER26 [V'ger]            at 23:27 EDT
 
Dear Scorpia,

        Have you made a fishing pole yet? I have found fresh fish both good to
eat and great for barter.;^)

SPOILER********

        There are several poles on the first level and you should also find
some spider silk there also. Add one to the other and you get it.

                                Hasty Bannanas!

                                V'ger gone
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 185       Tue Apr 14, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 23:32 EDT
 
Goo:  The word you wanna say is ..... talisman.  The next word he'll ask'
(assuming you wanna read this - backwards) onaclov.

Hoodwinker: Talk to SMONDEN on level 7.  He'll tell you what to do.

 Danny

BTW, the crystal shard had something to do with a maze, but I forget...:(
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 186       Tue Apr 14, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 23:33 EDT
 
Someone above mentioned the room in SE of lvl 5 where the gate closes.  Since
the switch is around a corner, I think a gate spell is needed to  leave (or
you could let the ghost kill you and end up at silver tree :) ). I'm gonna
have to use my last gate scroll since I haven't found the VAS rune yet.  I
lack 4 runes: VAS, EX, FLAM, and KAL  (Assuming that REL and TYM are in the SE
room I just mentioned).  Are any of the above 5 runes 4 runes on lvls 1 - 5? --
---- Also, when I had Shak fix the Sword of Valor, one of the options was "No,
I need to do something else first".  I had sword repaired anyway. IS there
something I must do before having the sword repaired? ------ I lack 3
artifacts: Shield of Valor, Book of Honesty, and the Cup.  Were any of these
also on lvls 1-5?  The only large area I couldn't map was the whole NW corner
of level 3. Thanks.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 187       Wed Apr 15, 1992
E.GOLDMAN [edg]              at 00:27 EDT
 
Chris,

Looks like you missed the key of courage.

Did you talk to *all* the prisoners on Level 7 (NW corner)?
 There's a few locked doors in the prison that you won't get a key
 to until you kill tyball.

In one of the cells is a mountainman who should tell you that the
 key is located directly North of his cell and that it requires
 a key to get the key.  He'll give you the key.

Just north of the cell is a locked door.  It's located right in
 the northwest corner.  It's high up and you have to jump the lava
 stream to get there.  The ledge the door is on is not in an obvious
 location which is maybe why you missed it.

Anyway, open that door.  You'll get it eventually.

-edg-
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 188       Wed Apr 15, 1992
J.PETRANOVI1                 at 04:17 EDT
 
 What does the "gem cutter" knight on level 4 want?  Does he offer something
good in return?  I'v finished with levels 1 to 4 as far as I can tell.  Did I
miss something, or is it later?  
 Also, is the sword of justice a good weapon?  My mage has been doing much
better in combat since I got it and the standard.  I still prefer to open the
range and use lightning though.

   Jim
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 189       Wed Apr 15, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 07:26 EDT
 
In that ghost area in the SE of level 5 just use the key that you got from the
ghost when you killed him on the gate and it will open letting you out. the
Dwarve king should have gave you a gem cutter after you cleared the mines.
Thats what the Knight wants or needs. I still cannot get that $%&@@$% chest on
level 4 open.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 190       Wed Apr 15, 1992
TOMAS [Tom Zelinski]         at 14:58 EDT
 
Someone mentioned that they had a complete list of mantras.  Could they please
e-mail me a copy?  Thanks...

  -- Tom

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 191       Wed Apr 15, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:33 EDT
 
 

 Rick:  I *did* use the key that I got from the Ghost, but the
  confounded door wouldn't open.   Are you talking about the
  chest on the little area near the pool and waterfall?  I
  just pounded the bejeebers out of it barehanded until the
  thing fell apart.



 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 192       Wed Apr 15, 1992
S.BAKER26 [V'ger]            at 19:22 EDT
 
Y'all,

        While you're at it, could someone e-mail me the complete list of
mantras too? Thnkx

                                Tequila!

                                V'ger gone
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 193       Thu Apr 16, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 01:18 EDT
 
Tom Z. and V'ger,

Check your mailboxes, the mantras should be in them.

IN BET WIS LOR,

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 194       Thu Apr 16, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 01:42 EDT
 
Couple of hints I found on level 6 while rampaging after hit with the imfamous
inventory bug:
   1> You can keep on fighting the golem for more points even after you
      win the first time and are rewarded.
   2> I have found that most needed objects do not sink when tossed into
      lava or water.  (Unfortunately this does not apply to parts of 
      compound items you may need later or to people such as Judy (who
      someone I heard dumped into the lava)).  I.E., the library has
      about 12 books in it.  11 sink, 1 floats.  Guess which one you
      need to take with you.  If you hurry, you can finish the game 
      before collecting late charges for the 11 lost ones.
      NOTE: I highly recommend saving game before doing this.  :)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 195       Thu Apr 16, 1992
TOMAS [Tom Zelinski]         at 03:09 EDT
 
Kami,

Thanks VERY much for the "Mantra Report!"

Film at Eleven...

  -- Tom

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 196       Thu Apr 16, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 05:05 EDT
 
Due to the problems that have been experienced with the current version of
UWEDIT, I have uploaded  the fixed version of the editor and deleted the
previous version from the library.  The new version should be available in a
few days again.  Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.  This
version will fix the file finding errors in the previous version.  The new
version will be file #4719.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 197       Thu Apr 16, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 21:17 EDT
 
Kami,
  I don't know if this is addressed in the new version,  but is there any way
to load in another save game after you are done with the first one?  I have a
couple of saves that I want to compare and it would be nice to easily switch
back and forth.

Assassin

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 198       Thu Apr 16, 1992
D.MCINTYRE1                  at 21:25 EDT
 
 Yeah, I finished the game tonight. Cool ending, although a bit strange,
 you end up someplace else than where you expect it. Oh well, have to
 have some sort of ending pages..

 You can unlock portcullis's with keys. Just use the key on the bars, and
 you'll unlock the portcullis, then you can open it normally..

 Anybody have a game that doesn't crash with a 'divjde be 0 err' when you
 read the scroll located in the Library?
 I finished it, so I assume it isn't needed..

 The crystal will open up a passage that helps considerably on level 7 on
 getting around. Its south of where you got it. 

 The runes Ex, Val, Flam, are on level 6. Also how did you get the wine
 of compasion without going to level 6?? :)

 What part of the infinity key don't you have? One is from Judy, one by
 praying, and one by going up to level 3 from level 7 through a new area
 from the NW corner of level 7..

 This was only the 3rd time I played the game, to get around all the bugs
 I encountered in it.. :)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 199       Thu Apr 16, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 21:34 EDT
 
Oh, did anyone find the VERY useful ring of levitation on level 7?  It really
helped me out.

 Just wondering Dan...
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 200       Thu Apr 16, 1992
K.FONG1 [K.K]                at 22:51 EDT
 
Dan:
     Thanks for your information.  I *did* go back to Shak to have the sword
fix because I CAN'T fix it myself.

All:
     1) I saw some messages mentioning about magical armors and weapons, where
are they?  I only got a sword of accuracy back in level 5.

     2) On level 6, a mage named Illomo was looking for Gurstang. Where is
he/she?  Does this person improtant?

     3) Where is the Shield of Valor and Book of Honesty?  (Just give me which
level it is located at. Don't SPOIL my fun yet.)

     4) I found lots of books in the library in level 6.  Do I need to do
anything with them?

                                Until we meet again

Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 201       Fri Apr 17, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 00:47 EDT
 
K.K., I assume one of the books in the library is needed (because it didnt
sink when I tossed it into lava).   Shield of Valor on lvl 6.  You have to
earn it. Someone said they hung when reading scroll in library.  I just used
it and the mountain just about collapsed.  Boulders all over lvl 6 now. ------
OHHH NOOOO.  I just got Ultima 7 today, but I'm only on lvl 6 of UU.   Which
do I play?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 202       Fri Apr 17, 1992
S.BAKER26 [V'ger]            at 01:37 EDT
 
Kami,

        Re the editor, does it allow partial increases in the primary stats?
Also, can you degrade your level so that you can chant again? I have the
feeling that there are just too many skills for just one char to have decent
scores in all of them.

        BTW, my basement, (where my computer is) has no carpet and I have
never noticed a static charge build up down here, even when I had a special
furry friend (now deceased :() named O'Malley.

                                Oheeoh, yooooohum,

                                V'ger gone

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 203       Fri Apr 17, 1992
D.KAMBER [Dennis]            at 02:32 EDT
 
Looking for a little specific help. Where is the Writ of Lorne?? I know its
somewhere in the Troll area, but so far no luck. Also in the catacombs near
the Choas Knight I found two secret doors, one had a goblet behind it.
Anything else of importance in this area?? Thanks
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 204       Fri Apr 17, 1992
J.PETRANOVI1                 at 03:15 EDT
 
 help!  I'm about done with level 6, but I don't have the Ex and Flam runes. 
Where are they?
 Also:  I still need the bottle, the cup, and to find Tom (or, more usual with
this game) his remains.  Please tell mae about these  ONLY if I've missed them
(level 6 or above).
      Thanks,
       Jim
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 205       Fri Apr 17, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 03:31 EDT
 
Assassin,

Do you have a printer?  Just hit the PRINT SCREEN key twice, and a copy of the
screen will appear on your printer.  Then you can compare as many games as you
like.  If you don't have a printer, there's a few utilities in the IBM-PC
roundtable that can redirect the printing function to a file (PRN2FIL is a
simple one).

I didn't allow for multiple game editing session in order to keep the editor
down to a reasonable size (saving your downloading bucks!).

Dennis,

You must PAY to UNLOCK the secrets of the Writ of Lorne.

V'ger,

The editor lets you change ANY stat or skill to whatever you want. The problem
with resetting the score was that you might also end up with a level 1
character again, along with a level 1 vitality. Besides, you should not have
to earn any more mantras to finish the game, and it saves you from the save,
chant, save, chant routine that we've all come to love so well.

Alas, I too have lost several furry friends.  In their passing, they remind us
that life is impermanent, and to live each moment to its fullest will result
in the least amount of regrets.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 206       Fri Apr 17, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:13 EDT
 
 

 Jim:  You should get the Flam rune and Bottle of Wine on Level
   6 before going to Level 7.  I am just a little bit ahead of you.
   I haven't gotten the Ex rune, but I just have to venture down
   to Level 7 to determine the fate of Gurstang (per Illomo) and
   I assume the Ex rune will be given then.  As for the Cup,
   have you used the Incense???  Louvon has some instructions
   that should help....


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 207       Fri Apr 17, 1992
S.BAKER26 [V'ger]            at 19:27 EDT
 
Kami,

        He was very special to me. Like a person with fur. Most animals aren't
that way, but once in a while you find a unique one. I have a husky who's like
that now. I love all animals but some are "more different" than others. I got
all misty eyed just writing this about him. :( He was a good boy.

                               Twisty little passages, all different.

                                        V'ger gone
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 208       Fri Apr 17, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 19:38 EDT
 
I found an EX rune on level 6 and have not enterted level 7 yet. there are  a
lot of ridges in level 6 that you must explore. the Northeast part of the map
has all sorts of ridges.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 209       Sat Apr 18, 1992
J.PETRANOVI1                 at 01:28 EDT
 
Again, can any one tell me where to find Ex, Flam, and the wine on level  [D
[A [B six?  After the earlier post, I tried the advice of looking in the NE 
ridges again.  Trouble is, the automap doesn't really work right there (I
can't tell where I've been).  I think I've looked every where in this area. 
This is one part of the game I really hated, as it is very  tedious and
without any interest for me.
 I'ld appreciate any advice, no matter how specific.  
     Thanks,
     Jim
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 210       Sat Apr 18, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 04:38 EDT
 
Jim P.,

E-mail in your box!  Hope it helps.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 211       Sat Apr 18, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 08:41 EDT
 
Dr. Owl will give you the FLAM rune if you ask him.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 212       Sat Apr 18, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 09:13 EDT
 
 
 Aw gee!  I'm down in 7 and now I find the EX rune is just laying
 around up on 6 for the pickings.   Like Jim P, I ventured all around
 6 and didn't spot the rune.  Kami, could you send me an email
 for that location, also ?????


 While on 7, I noticed that the program deducted 2000 experience
 points from me (my total dropped from 8800 to 6800).
 Is this an adjustment just so that I don't overflow
 the exp point sum, or what?


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 213       Sat Apr 18, 1992
D.BORUCK [DENNYB]            at 10:20 EDT
 
SCORPIA:

There is a MANI rune somewhere on level 1. However, there is also another MANI
rune in the prison in the far northeast corner of level 2. You need a long
stick (from level 1) to get in there, however.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 214       Sat Apr 18, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 11:17 EDT
 
Dennyb, the Mani rune on 1 is the rune that fell into the water when I opened
the box ;). However, I did indeed find the second Mani down there on level 2.
So nice to be able to heal myself now! Have gone down as far as level 4,
becoming a member of the Knights. Mr. Chaos, however, is proving to be an
irritant ;).

            Best,
             - Scorpia
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 215       Sat Apr 18, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 12:56 EDT
 
I wish I would have written down where I found the ex rune on 6. I have played
down through 6, have not ventured to 7 yet and have all the runes except the
VAS rune.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 216       Sat Apr 18, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 16:59 EDT
 
Well, Im about a third of they way through lvl 6 & have both VAS rune and
shield of Valor.  However, I think a prior append indicated that a needed
artifact (the Book of Lorne?) was above lfl 6.  I finished 1-5 and explored
everwhere except NW corner that appears blocked for lvls 3-5.  However,  there
are a couple of characters who I didn't know what to ask.  For   eexample,
Longtooth --leader of the Trolls-- will let me ask questions, but the only
word I have found that gets a response is Knight.  Is there something else I
should ask Longtooth or another character to obtain this book? ------------
How good a protection do the artifacts give?  Would the shield of valor be
better than a magic shield?  Since the Shield of Valor does not give a
condition such as worn, excellent, etc., it would seem to be the ideal piece
of armor if it does protect well since it will not wear.   Thanks.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 217       Sat Apr 18, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 17:43 EDT
 
The book is on level 6, as is the wine and the shield. How does one get into
the area in the SE of level 6?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 218       Sat Apr 18, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 19:15 EDT
 
Jeff T.,

E-mail in your box!  Regarding your loss of experience - you weren't
resurrected, were you?

Rick,

Didn't Gralwart tell you to "shoot between the eyes?"  Look at your the area
just above the inaccessible SW portion.  Now make the left side the top and
the right side the bottom.  See anything that looks strange? SPOILER follows:



Go right from the volcano's core.  In the room to the east, there appears to
be a free-standing wall on the western side of the room. Walk THROUGH its
middle.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 219       Sat Apr 18, 1992
R.PRITCHARD1 [Randy]         at 19:56 EDT
 
I think my last message got zapped.  I think I'm really in trouble now. I'm
almost finished and I find out I need the flute to get the cup of wonder on
level 3.  I can't remember what I did with the flute, whether I traded it or
just threw it away.  In the beginning, nowhere in the game did it seem
important.  What level was the flute found on?  Also, where in the heck is the
wine of compassion?  I really hate to have to start over, but I can't seem to
get anywhere.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 220       Sun Apr 19, 1992
W.LASKOWSKI [Grizz]          at 00:27 EDT
 
I'm having some trouble (to put it mildly) with the Maze on Level 7. Previous
posts have indicated I need a crown--I have two (one of "Great Protection"),
but my vitality keeps getting sucked away, even if I'm wearing it.  (An imp, I
gather, was supposed to tell me about this crown.  Where is he?  I hope I
didn't treat him like a mongbat (they look alike) and dust him before he had a
chance to talk.)

Also on Level 7, the crystal splinter opened the door to the tombs, and I
found the secret door behind one of them, but nothing else. Is there supposed
to be anything there?  (Two graves had jewels, but the dwarf--er, mountainman--
told me to leave the graves undisturbed, and honest avatar that I am, I looked
but didn't touch).  Thanks.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 221       Sun Apr 19, 1992
K.FONG1 [K.K]                at 02:38 EDT
 
Soulcutter:

I got all my artifacts now.  Thanks for the info.  As for Longtooth, ask him
for the person who help built their shrine.  Also, the answer is in your
message.  Look inside ().  I read all the books in the library and nothing
happen.  Hum, is this one of those pesty critter again???

For those who need an EX rune.  You can find it on the SW corner of level 6. 
(Behind the talking door)

All:

How do I kill the fire elemental?  I can't sword-fight with it, and there's no
spell to freeze it or use water to extinguish it (now that's a thought).  What
should I get in the NE part of level 6 anyway (beside the runestone)?

As Soulcutter has suggested, can we use those artifacts instead of the weapons
that we found in the Abyss?  Will these artifacts wear out, and do the Shield
and Sword provide better protection and attack than the magical ones?  It will
give me LOTS more spaces to carry other things.


                                Until we meet again

                                     K.K.  :)





 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 222       Sun Apr 19, 1992
D.GHIDALI1                   at 03:33 EDT
 
How can I map the southern part of level two? I go down through the stairs, I
see the sign of Carabus and a locked portcullis to the south, a guy named
Ironwit to the N, but no way of going south! Help!!
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 223       Sun Apr 19, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 03:58 EDT
 
Grizz and Randy,

Answers should be in your E-mail box.

K.K.,

What is your weapons skill like?  I fought those fire elementals with a sword.
It just takes a few good hits to knock them out.

One thing they don't like is lightning, but it takes at least two bolts.  One
sheet lightning spell wipes them out though.

There some nice magic arms and armor in the NE of level 6, which should be
those mines that Vilus is supposed to inhabit (I didn't see him anywhere!). 
Also an anvil, for those so inclined.  Lots of critters there too.

IN BET WIS LOR,

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 224       Sun Apr 19, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 04:04 EDT
 
D.GHIDALI1,

If you look behind that portcullis, you'll see a mountainman.  Talk to him.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 225       Sun Apr 19, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 11:41 EDT
 
I found a flute somewhere on the ghoul level (not in the ghoul area itself,
though). It was in a bag lying on the floor, I think.

              Best,
               - Scorpia
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 226       Sun Apr 19, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 12:30 EDT
 
I found 2 flutes, one on the goblin level (one of goblins will teach you how
to play it). I found that battleaxes work ok, but one or two fireballs and I'm
toast so I need to find the Flam rune to cast resist fire.  In the meantime, 
Lightning works well. (agaist fire elementals).
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 227       Sun Apr 19, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 16:37 EDT
 
Let me rephrase what I was trying to say, Kami ;):

 When identifying an item, the game should tell you "Yes, you were  successful
in identifying the item, but it's still mundane,".  That way I don't have to
figure out if my character "failed" his Lore check, or he ]did manage to
succeed but the item is pretty normal.  That's what I'd like to see added,
however minor :)

 Danny
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 228       Sun Apr 19, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 18:07 EDT
 
Soulcutter,

Resist Fire doesn't seem to help against those nasty fireballs. Possibly a
Missile Protection spell would help, but I haven't tried it.  I just
electrocute the critters once I identify them as hostile.  You can also get in
really close, then they can't throw fire at you.

Dan,

I don't think that seeing "Yes, you were  successful in identifying the item,
but it's still mundane," would be realistic.  Unless you possess the skill to
make that determination, you shouldn't be able to. For example, I was with a
rock-hound friend who was crooning over some rocks that he found.  They looked
like rocks to me, but it turns out they were geodes, which, when sliced open,
are filled with beautiful crystaline structures.  Because I lack the skill, I
would have dismissed these as just another rock.

Kami

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 229       Sun Apr 19, 1992
R.PRITCHARD1 [Randy]         at 20:35 EDT
 
Thanks for the help Kami, but I remember finding both flutes, I must have
traded or threw them both away (big sigh).  Now I can't remember what I did
with them.  Does anyone know the byte value in the inventory for the flute?  I
really hate to have to start this thing over, I have all three keys.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 230       Mon Apr 20, 1992
W.LASKOWSKI [Grizz]          at 00:40 EDT
 
Kami,

Thanks for the hints.  Looks like I'll have to find my stash of Nitwit the
dwarf's--scuse me, mountainman's--magic elixir.

Re Fire Elementals:  First time I met one, he toasted me good.  I tried the
Resist Flame spell, which did seem to work for me.  Then, as Kami says, it's
just a matter of some close-in hack work.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 231       Mon Apr 20, 1992
DVANDERSLICE [Gremlyn]       at 00:43 EDT
 
Don't know if its a GLITCH OR WHAT.. WENT DOWN TO LEVEL 7... CAME BACK UP TO
6.....finished the quests...when I went to go back down to 7 the stairs were
gone...just a marble wall...these were the stairs in the sw corner of seer
level. Please tell me its something I missed or if there are any other stairs
down.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 232       Mon Apr 20, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 03:17 EDT
 
Gremlyn,

Are you sure you're in the right place (look at your map)?  If you are, try
loading it again.  This helped someone else who had the same type of problem.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 233       Mon Apr 20, 1992
R.ALLEN47 [R_Addison]        at 23:29 EDT
 
Kami:  But your friend, who has the skill, could readily tell that another
rock was just a rock, and not carry it around thinking it _might_ be a
geode...

RA
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 234       Tue Apr 21, 1992
J.PETRANOVI1                 at 00:17 EDT
 
 I found that resist fire was great against fire elementals.  Their fireballs
still hurt, but not so bad.  Once I found level 8, I would go down, cast
daylight, come up, go down, cast resist fire, repeat, cast fly.  (I had a mage
charater with manna at 30, casting at 30). With fly, you can really explore
level 7 more easily.
 I don't think a char editor is needed--I just concentrated on magic, then when
I got to about level 10 I didn't pray for a long time, until I knew what
skills were good.  At about level 15 I decided I needed high search, attack,
defense, and sword skills.  I got these up to about 20 each.  The rest were
zero or so.  I found that with good spells and lots of resting, other
abilities are not needed.  Level 7 (where magic won't work for a while)
convinced me to get these other skills.  Be patient.
 By the way, I never found the levitation ring.  I did find a regen ring on
level 8.  What level was the levitation ring on?
       Jim
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 235       Tue Apr 21, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 02:34 EDT
 
RA,

Exactly.

Jim P.,

The ring of levitation is in a passage that begins from the northern wall of
the lava river separating the maze from the NE portion of level 7.  It is just
NE of the room with the crown of Maze Navigation, and just north of the NW
corner of the maze.  Try flying through that section of the lava river - you
should see the entrance to the passage.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 236       Tue Apr 21, 1992
AGNARI                       at 19:32 EDT
 
  Ok I need some general directions Or specific ones would be ok also.  Let me
expalin the rather DUMB thing I did:  I was going about the normal adventure's
business of exploring lvl 1 (only fooled with the demo for 5 or 10 minutes)
when I decided to explore a well in the grey orcs area (??????, some kind of
semi friendly talkative orcs) when I stepped tooooo close and fell down the
well.  So there I was a victor of two encounters on lvl 1 a few runes and now
on level 2 with no hope of finding my way back.

  So just in what general area of level two is the stairs back up!!!! I hadn't
completed half of the known area of lvl 1 and really have no business on lvl
2, 1 to beam up scotty.

  OTOH, something REALLY REALLY .... werid has happened now that I've fallen
and can't get up ;)   Some toady with teneclas started beating on me before I
made like mark spitz and left and bingo I get a message about now being lvl 2.
A little later some kind of nasty brown thingie is beating on me so after I
killed it I see a message about progressed to lvl 5.  Have managed to kill 2
or 3 more of those thingies and a room full of slug/worms protecting a gold
chest and I'm now a lvl 7.  Of course I haven't seen nor been to or know about
any of those shrine(s) that I've seen mentioned here on the boards where one
prays.  What gives??? Is lvl progression really that quick? - doubt it if lvl
15 is the max.  Or did the char really get trashed falling down the well?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 237       Tue Apr 21, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 20:03 EDT
 
I can't believe that you progressed that fast. Must be some sort of bug.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 238       Tue Apr 21, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 20:42 EDT
 
 

  Kami:  RE: the experience loss.  The loss happens ONLY when
  I move thru a certain area on level 7, and then it happens
  EVERY time I move thru that area.  No, nope resurrections or
  anything else either...

  Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 239       Tue Apr 21, 1992
AGNARI                       at 20:45 EDT
 
  well thanks for clearing up the level progression BUT what about those DARN
stairs up????  Are they in the NW, NE, SE or SW area of the level?????
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 240       Tue Apr 21, 1992
R.ALLEN47 [R_Addison]        at 22:00 EDT
 
Agnari:

You need to go to the center of the level, then west as far as you can, then
north.  The stairs up are in an area with wooden walls.

RA
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 241       Tue Apr 21, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:29 EDT
 
  thanks RA
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 242       Wed Apr 22, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 02:31 EDT
 
One thing I did notice is that you seem to get experience for reaching each
new level. Doesn't happen right at the stairs; you have to go exploring a bit.
That's the only way I can explain getting a couple of levels when all I did
was walk around a new area without killing anything.

Ag, you'll go up pretty quickly at the start, then slow down later. I was up
to level 8 without even doing more than 4 dungeon levels. After that, I didn't
progress too fast. 

           Best,
            - Scorpia
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 243       Wed Apr 22, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 03:04 EDT
 
Jeff T.,

Strange!

All,

Now that I've finally finished, some unresolved questions:

Can you free the Baron's daughter without dealing with the Slasher?

Is there a way to access the room just north of the central shaft on level 7? 
I used Roaming Sight until I had that area totally mapped, but could find no
way in.

What were the mandolins used for?  They didn't work for the Cup of Wonder -
only the flute worked for that.

Any ideas?

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 244       Wed Apr 22, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 19:22 EDT
 
S.O.S., please... After starting over due to the I bug which bit me on level 3
while combing through the remains of Ossikka, I can't find the key on the
Lizard level that grants access to the red lizard areas and the  southeast
corner of the map. First time around, no problemo, but  this time, no key. I
think it's brown with a red gem. Can any of  you compulsive note-takers help
me? Thanks. BTW: Uptopic, the question was what rengths to pray for at the
shrines. Having reached level 10, I'vstopped using the shrines  'til I'm sure
what it is I'll need to win. But search, lore, and acrobatics have sure helped
my paladin. Once I know what's needed, I'll pray like hell at the nearest
shrine for.... :) Greg
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 245       Wed Apr 22, 1992
AGNARI                       at 21:18 EDT
 
Thanks Scorpia I managed to see the button (used that flying potion that the
blueprinter on lvl 2 wanted me to use to get his prints).  As that uses all of
the potion and I'd hazard a guess that the potion is used to get the prints I
don't see anyway that I can reach that button. The jumps are impossible (don't
have all the runes for a long jump spell that I saw on a scroll somewhere)
with my physical abilities for manipulating mice.

  Thus is there some kind of trick to getting to it??  This growing trend
within the industry to stick/require infantile arcade actions to win a game is
really getting to me!!! (Ok so the arcade action isn't infantile, but rather
the attempt to lum computer gamers and nintendo freaks into a single market
where one game fits all is - sorry this theme needs to be repeated several
times until the game is finished, helps reduce stress and possibly if the
marketing geeks hear it enough this trend can be reversed before good
adventure games go the way of the dinosaurs).
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 246       Wed Apr 22, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 21:39 EDT
 
Ag, it is possible to jump across to the button (I managed it), although
you'll have to go into the water and swim to land on the way back. You can
back up slowly to the very edge of the block (you won't walk off) the run as
fast as you can forward and jump. I also recall seeing an earlier message
somewhere that you can throw something (sling stone, perhaps?) at the button
to operate it, but I never tried that myself.

              Best,
               - Scorpia
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 247       Wed Apr 22, 1992
A.MAYER3 [Andrew Mayer]      at 22:22 EDT
 
        I have a friend stuck on level 6.

        He needs to either defeat the villain on that level or get to level 7.
Any clues would be appreciated.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 248       Wed Apr 22, 1992
PSCHNEIDER                   at 22:37 EDT
 
 Can someone tell me where the heck Toms picture is at?
 I've searched all of level 6, even went back to the
 lizard level where there was a message about Tom scrawled
 on a wall - no luck.
 I'm on level 7 now - is it there?
 Paul
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 249       Wed Apr 22, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:43 EDT
 
  Ok, boys&girls  Somebody mentioned that NOT to kill anyone in the Anks area.
So I need a hint (start over or press on), while looking around one of the Orc
areas on level 1 I opened a do not enter door.  The previously 3 mellow ors
didn't like that and foolishly attacked - last foolish thing they'll ever do
;).    I didn't take any of the stuff in the locked room (3 chests belonging
or a mellow orc), but am I already in trouble for defending myself or
defending myself too vigoursly???
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 250       Thu Apr 23, 1992
G.B.SMITH [ ]                at 00:19 EDT
 
HELP...I'm on level 6 and just "walked between the eyes" and was teleported
into SW where I found only a trapped button, another button on the wall, 6
emeralds, a skull...and nothing else.  What am I supposed to find??? and how
to I get the %#@# out of there?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 251       Thu Apr 23, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 04:13 EDT
 
G.B.,

Take the emeralds and put them in the alcoves near the top of the pillars in
the corners of the room. (You can do that by jumping and throwing them).  Then
go back down and push the silver button.  A VAS stone will appear in one of
the trenches.  Then push the gold button and take a few steps in any
direction.

Ag,

If you've got a recent save, restore.  If not, you might risk going on. 
Breaking into storerooms that say "Keep out" and killing formerly friendly
"hostiles" is bad for you karma, but there seems to be quite a bit of leeway. 
I adjusted my Karma level (using a modified version of the character editor),
and could still finish the game.

Paul,

Talk to one of the prisoners in the NW corner of level 7.  You'll need a skull
key to open their locked cell doors, which means you'll have to defeat Tyball
first.  Lockpicks won't work here.

Andrew,

What villain on level 6?  If you provide a little more detail on where your
friend is stuck, maybe we can give you a clue or two.

Scorpia,

You can jump both to and from that button.  You just walk up to the very edge.
Do it SLOWLY.  When you press "S" and don't move forward any more, do a
standing long jump (SHIFT-J).

IN BET WIS LOR,

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 252       Thu Apr 23, 1992
W.LASKOWSKI [Grizz]          at 04:14 EDT
 
Let me see if I can keep these straight:

Kami,

RE Baron's daughter and Slasher:  maybe I'm misunderstanding your question,
but I just dealt with the same guy in the room with the daughter, opened the
gate, and she said thanks and split.  Then went eventually you-know-where and
dealt with Slasher.

Ag,

You can also use a spell to hit that button.  In the demo I did that, and in
the game as a fighter was able to jump to that ledge and back without falling
in water (acrobatics somewhere around 10 at that time).  I used a method
outlined upline a while ago:  look down, get as close to front edge as
possible, and hit Shift-J.  I consider myself a klutz in reactions too, but I
had few problems (after killing that first goblin) in finishing this game
physically, and actually enjoyed bouncing off walls, etc., when moving too
fast while weighted down (falling in lava was no fun though).

Paul,

Tom's picture is on Level 7--somebody has it and will give it to a nice
Avatar.  Unfortunately, you have to deal with somebody else on that Level to
get a key to get to the person with the picture. Trust I'm not being
hopelessly obscure.

GB Smith,

Eventually you'll get one of the most prized runestones, only you should have
talked to a mage who would have told you what to do with those emeralds. 
Trying walking around the room and thinking what to do with them.  Also, have
you played with the buttons?  (A transportation spell will also get you out of
there.)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 253       Thu Apr 23, 1992
K.GLINER [KG]                at 04:29 EDT
 
Paul- it's on level 7.

GB SMith- talk to one of the wizards about what to do there.  To get out just
mess with the buttons a little.

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 254       Thu Apr 23, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 06:03 EDT
 
You will need that flying potion to get the blueprints. The magic arrow spell
will trigger the button to open the door to the ankh on level one.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 255       Thu Apr 23, 1992
AGNARI                       at 19:33 EDT
 
  Actually the Long Jump worked (have to READ those docs closely).  Gads that
that monster in the mines on lvl 2 was nasty, all that running around and
trying to attack at the same time JUST PROVES THIS IS A NINTENDO GAME IN
DISQUISE. Unfortunately I hear it gets worse deep into the volcano
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 256       Thu Apr 23, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 19:45 EDT
 
Hi, all Can't figure out how to access the secret door in the bullfrog room.
Every time I levitate, I just knock myself silly bumping into the walls. Feels
kinda foolish. Any trick to getting into this room? Thanks.   Ain't this a
great game?! Greg s
 [A [ *s
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 257       Thu Apr 23, 1992
R.ALLEN47 [R_Addison]        at 20:58 EDT
 
 

Ag: Nintendo??  I just walked up to that gazer with the minor heal spell
ready, and wailed away.  I did take the precaution of buying some better armor
from the 'mountain man' smith first.  Thank Ghod for Fighters!

RA
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 258       Thu Apr 23, 1992
AGNARI                       at 21:02 EDT
 
  Well my trouble was the dastarly thing kept running away, Moving on me so I
had to coordinate chasing and attacking (often both at the same time) and that
sure spells NINTENDO arcade game to me.

  My char is a Druid and has about half leather and some mail armor now.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 259       Thu Apr 23, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 22:50 EDT
 
It spells a more realistic approach to an fantasy situation to me. If one
likes to sit and think a few minutes then so be it but I doubt if one would
have that much time if you did come across a beholder in a dungeon. All other
games seems static after this one.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 260       Thu Apr 23, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 22:54 EDT
 
Is the comment about a NINTENDO game a dig at this game? I have been around
since the early beginnings of computer gaming and UW is a definte
breakthrough. There is nothing on the market in a dungeon game close to UW. It
is as big of a breakthrough in dungeon games as Dungeonmaster was in 1987 when
it appeared for the Atari ST.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 261       Thu Apr 23, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:45 EDT
 
  Yes, rick the NINTENDO comment of mine was/is a dig.  Of this game and the
Beholder series by WestEnd/SSI.  I like to plot and think, not rely upon my
reaction speed with a mouse, nor my physical ability to use a mouse. But if I
couldn't take my time and think and plot I don't think I'd be playing tag with
beholders in real life.

  Granted it's a definite breakthru; but that doesn't mean everone has to like
the particular breakthru.  Some point to 55mp as a life saving breakthru, but
many of us really hated it.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 262       Fri Apr 24, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 02:08 EDT
 
Grizz,

I offed Tyball, but the cell didn't open automatically.  I looked all over the
place for a way to open that @#$!@^ gate!  Maybe I should have done something
before destroying the orb...

Something else that was weird...the secret back entrance to Tyball's room
didn't open for me.  I tried just about every conceivable use of that crystal
shard, but no dice.  It did work when I was on the other side, after I was
done with Tyball.  It did open the entrance to the Dwarf Tombs, though.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 263       Fri Apr 24, 1992
W.LASKOWSKI [Grizz]          at 03:32 EDT
 
Kami,

Maybe destroying the orb did it for you.  I never did, and after skewering
Tyball, I just walked to the room and talked to the girl, who said to watch
out for the Slasher, gotta tell Dad, and disappeared (all this with portcullis
closed)--makes me wonder why she didn't split earlier.  I opened the
portcullis later with the Skull key, which also (I think) worked on the back
door.  I never did destroy that orb--how did you do it, and did it restore
magic to that level?

Ag,

I understand your frustration, but NOTHING in this game compares to the Dran
two-step in EOB II.  I found it helpful in the beginning of UU to use the
keyboard (a, s, d, x) to move and the mouse to slice n'dice.  Later--much
later--I was able to use the mouse for both, but not consistently well (lotta
walls down there all hacked up).  A combat tip in certain situations--
especially if outnumbered--is to stand in a doorway.  The beasts usually aim
high and hit the jamb, and you stand there and thurst until they bust.  I know
we're not going to convince you that this game's just as much a leap forward
in 1st person role-playing as Civilization is for strategy games, but as
somebody said uptopic, there's an incredibly satisfying feeling when you run
after a creature, see the sword go over your head, and just as you reach it,
WHAM!  This game engine can only get better--I just hope I don't have to buy a
586 120 Mz to run it.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 264       Fri Apr 24, 1992
AGNARI                       at 05:06 EDT
 
  Yea Grizz by the end of this game I figure I'll be about as mouse competent
and a teenage 10 minutes after starting a new arcade game.

  Now I've gotten slightly beyond where Iwas in the first game that I trashed
(killed 3 orcs in the ankh area - well they attacked first). Have quite a bit
if not approaching high 90's of lvl 3 mapped and now have to find some mad
wizard for more clues to the sword.  Now if the game wasn't so darn
realizistic, NPCs wandering around and not staying in one place where they can
be quickly be found, arrrgh!!! ;)

  Guess I'll have to travel back up the lvl 2 and see about finding that guy's
blueprints!  Completely bypassed it this time, hope it is more rewarding then
that stone/gem cutter the king gave me for off that beholder!

  I now find it more satisfying that I can walk on water and KILL those
lurkers in the water (oh they didn't do too much damage if you swam away but
they annoyed me no end, I considering a trip back to lvl one just to off more
of them ;).

  So what's the story on the 3 buttons outside the door with the chain on the
other side of lvl 3?? the chain opens the door, but the buttons don't seem to
have any effect, as far as I've seen - it's murder when you push something and
the action takes place miles away!  Is there a secret combo????  I couldn't
find that hidden thieves room behind the storage room either, and then I've
not returned to that point where it told be to go back and then fight your way
back here!!!  arrrgh so much to do and so little time left.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 265       Fri Apr 24, 1992
AGNARI                       at 07:47 EDT
 
  Ok still haven't found the 2 sword pieces.  But I did take the time to go
fetch the blueprints (wow, get a potion or two that by now I don't need, sure
hope it helped my karma score).  Cann't see much of lvl 3 that I haven't
explored so if I can keep my eyes open I'll start checking out lvl 4 in hopes
that somewhere there is a stairs back up to a part of 3 I can't reach from
here.  So as I get ready to depart 3 for the time being can somebody
hint/answer a few questions:

  1)  What function do those buttons by the door to the E/W store room play?
  2) was the thieves den behind the storerooms or was that it?  never found a
secret/hiden room.
  3) what function does that lever play by the sign, go down to the abyss and
then fight your way back up for the key, play??  I suspect the lever across
the river to the north activites the telporter walls to bounce you btwn 3
locations on the riverfront.
  4) where is this flaming stupid Mad Wizard?? Is s/he/it on lvl 3?  Or what
does it look like?  As these bozo's move it's hard to pin them down once you
open their doors and let them wander freely.
  5) what the heck is that sign about the abyss all about (now if Eliz..mas..
is in this Abyss I'll be there in a flash ;).

  Ok, that should be sufficient for now!

  Other then a gripe!  I'm not fond of automappers, especially if you can't
print them out, sure impedes progress if you have to constantly be swapping
from map to front view to get anywhere.  But as far as automappers this one is
about the best I've seen HOWEVER, this ramps at different levels all make one
big blob of no paths on the map SUCKS SWAMP WATER, or IMHO.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 266       Fri Apr 24, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 11:10 EDT
 
AG, there is a secret door in the Thieve's storage room, but it doesn't lead
to anything really wonderful. The bit about fighting your way up to level 3 is
for MUCH later in the game (in fact, that is where I am now, fighting my way
up ;). Don't worry about it for the moment.

What mad wizard are you looking for? I don't remember any on level 3 (or 4,
for that matter).

Someone asked about the orb earlier. Yes, when you smash it, magic returns to
level 7 immediately and you get back your mana. An orb rock from level 8 (just
one) is necessary to break the globe. The princess (since when is a Baron's
daughter a princess?) wouldn't talk to me until I had opened the portcullis.
Tyball drops two keys when he dies. They open the portcullis in his place, and
also the portcullises leading to the prisoners areas. I don't recall offhand
if I needed them to open either of the two doors in the rear (leading to the
stairs down and his cache of goodies).

BTW Ag, some parts of the levels you won't be able to reach because they
belong to the "fight your way up" segment. If you can't find your way into a
particular area from 3 down, then skip it and keep moving. 

                Best,
                 - Scorpia

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 267       Fri Apr 24, 1992
J.FISHER18                   at 19:09 EDT
 
Hey all!
  Alright...I'm now on level 4 and having a few problems here...HELP! I can't
find my way into the "precious Levers room" in the Maze of Silas. I have
walked around that maze at least 20 times and I still can't find it. Is this
one of those areas that you can only get into on the way up? Also, does any
one have a list of mantras??? I desperatley need the one  for mana...but all
would be appreciated.
                             Thanks
                            Klothos

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 268       Fri Apr 24, 1992
AGNARI                       at 20:20 EDT
 
   Sorry Klothos I'm over on the NE looking foolishly at those two dials and
buttons and not seeing any changes ANYWHERE when I play with them.  Since I
have fly potions/levitate I did make it up to the NE face and got to a tomb
area on lvl 5 that has some worn Plate armor (leggings? and chest??).  So can
anyone hint as to were I'll see changes when I much with the dials?  The great
staircase or the pit below????

  Till I find out guess I'll have to drop my junk and head back up stairs to
collect my stashs - sure hate it when I find out that receipe for worm stew
stored on lvl xxx is now needed on lvl xxx+++.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 269       Fri Apr 24, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 20:49 EDT
 
A lot of the quest in this game you need not finish to finish the game, but
they can lead to some rune stones or magic items. The mad wizard's bones are
reached by swimming in the river in the se part of level two and being sucked
down a drain to level 3. You will find his bones on a side of the river. Just
contains a wand of magic missle. Did you find the hidden dooorway in the Frog
Maze?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 270       Fri Apr 24, 1992
AGNARI                       at 21:10 EDT
 
  Haven't seen a Frog Maze or a maze for that matter.  I did muck about with
those switches in the headless/skeleton room to open up a wall and set up the
jumping posts.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 271       Fri Apr 24, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 22:13 EDT
 
AGNARI,
  Those three buttons also open the same door as the chain (from this side). 
The specific sequence is written somewhere in the room. There is no Mad Wizard
on level 3.  He did his deed then went back to his lair (in much lower level).
Acutally, I think all NPC stay in the same place and started moving around
only after you walked into their vincinity (not very sure on this).

Klothos,
  If you recall from the guy who told you about Silas Maze, it is full of
SECRET DOORS.  The mantra for Mana is IMU.

AGNARI,
  Those two dials and two buttons are the Frog Puzzle.  The two dials work in
conjunction with the buttons.  The dials control the coordinates and the
buttons are for raising and lowering the floor. There are two exit from that
big square room not counting the entrance you came in.  Just walk around the
walls and check your map.

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 272       Fri Apr 24, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:40 EDT
 
  thanks Jason, never saw anychange to the floor.  Did get the exit to the NE
of the room to the tombs on lvl 5 but I've yet to see any thing to the SE
(guessing that's where it's at (will float over there and check it out)

  BTW what's with this ton of gold/gems I've accumulated? Plenty of blue and
red gems/stones and only 1 green.  There is somebody on lvl 4 or 5 that is
into gemcutting I think, which when I haul the junk down from up stairs may be
interested in the gemcutting tool the  king gave me on lvl 2 or so I hope as
he wasn't impressed with the gems.  What I wouldn;t give for a teleport spell
to teleport to one location drop my goodies and then teleport back.  That way
they would all be in ONE cache instead of one or two PER LEVEL....arrrrrgh
Origin and this ton of collectable stuff.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 273       Fri Apr 24, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:44 EDT
 
  Jason you sure there were a TON of secret doors in the NW puzzle?? The tiny
maze I wandered thru (had gold coins littering the floor) had 2 or 3 secret
doors.

  Oh well time to save off, and get those notes all typed up so they can be
useful.
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 274       Fri Apr 24, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 23:24 EDT
 
Ag, the secret door at the other end of the wall just leads to a magic crystal
ball which, if I remember rightly, just shows you a brief vision of the room
with the moonstone. Big wow. Hardly worth the time and effort to get to it.
The stairs leading down to the tombs is the important one. More important
later than now.

BTW, I finished the game about a half hour ago. Whew! Glad it's over. 

           Best,
            - Scorpia
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 275       Fri Apr 24, 1992
P.MORGAN6                    at 23:29 EDT
 
Well, I'm stumped on what to say to the wizard ghost to complete the game.
I've gotten into the Slasher of Veils' room and covered everything else but
have tried all the words I can remember that deal with the eight artifacts.  I
assume they are required at this point but he doesn't seem to like the words
I'm blurting at him.  Could someone help me out with the password so I can
continue?  BTW, I had a friend who killed Tydbal and he fell into the lave
when he died.  Goodbye keys!  Friend continued playing and all his saves were
past that point.  He's now starting over because there is no way to continue
without those keys...
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 276       Fri Apr 24, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:44 EDT
 
  Don't know why you should be so happy Scorp, other then the acrade stuff is
over for now, since you probably have PE or U7 waiting in the wings and a
deadline or two coming up ;)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 277       Sat Apr 25, 1992
W.LASKOWSKI [Grizz]          at 01:32 EDT
 
BAG,

There is a teleportation device in this game--problem is, it only works one
way.

About gold and gems:  as in many other CFRPG's, you initially need coins
desperately, and by the end of the game, it's mostly a hindrance (threw mine
away 5th Level or so).  This seemed to happen a little too quickly in this
game.  I liked the idea of being able to trade with NPC's, but after I was
through with Shak, I didn't have to anymore.  Appraise is a useless skill in
this game.

BTW, you may not need those potions you got from old Nitwit now, but you will
later--a LOT more than you will need money.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 278       Sat Apr 25, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 02:01 EDT
 
P.MORGAN6,

Try "Talisman" followed by "Volcano".

Ag,

I figure all that wealth is meant for those lacking repair and magical
abilities, so they can pay for food and to get their stuff fixed and
identified.  I stopped collecting it after I raised my skills enough.  No
reason to lug it all around anymore.

That lever by the sign on level 3 generates RATS.  The only purpose I can
deduce is to give you a few more experience points.  That passageway was
COVERED in rat blood by the time I was done!

Klothos,

Mantras are in your E-mailbox.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 280       Sat Apr 25, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 08:52 EDT
 
Ag, hehehe. Let's just say the end game was a long haul ;)

Yeah Kami, I also noticed little need for money/gems after awhile. Shak seems
to be the main reason to have coins. He's handy early on, especially for
fixing up weapons, but once I had the sword and shield artifacts, I think I
only went to him once for repairs.

By the way, did anyone ever find a mantra just for sword skill? Or a use for
the giant gold nugget? 

           Best,
            - Scorpia
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 281       Sat Apr 25, 1992
AGNARI                       at 10:03 EDT
 
  Haven't seen a giant gold nugget.  But I did get hit with my inventory or a
freeze up when I was dicussing joining/test for Knighthood squire service
tried one response (ahh it's late and I forget exactly which and the game
froze up everytime when the dialog was finished). 4th time I took a very
similar worded response and didn't get the big freeze. But a little later I
saw that some of the inventory had been changed (green gem now gold pices, and
little things like that).

  I'm currently trying to get most of the junk collected in the travels
centrally located on lvl 4. IMHO somebody at Origin didn't like the original
adventures of collect treasure and use over there or has a low opinion of
those who like them and has taken sadist pleasure in driving us nutso with
tons of junk inventory to collect and manage.  It wouldn't be so bad if the
game included a NPC pack mule ;)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 282       Sat Apr 25, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 10:31 EDT
 
Scorpia, I'm almost done with lvl 6 and haven't found a use for it yet. Maybe
Shak would accept it in exchange for lifetime repairs.  (Wish I had 2
moonstones, one to go to shak and the other to get back to lvl 6. I'm finding
a lost of items on this level.  You mentioned that you didn't need to repair
stuff after got the artifacts.  It appears the Sheild of Valor cannot be
damaged, but does it really protect better than my  magical shields?  Does the
repaired 2-piece sword artifact also work  better than other weapons?  I
currently wield a battleaxe of great damage and have 14 axe skill.  Not using
sword unless it has tremendous advantage since my sword skill is only '1'. 
Thanks. 
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 283       Sat Apr 25, 1992
E.GOLDMAN [edg]              at 12:33 EDT
 
p.morgan6,

you can tell your freind he DOESN'T HAVE TO START OVER!!

I pushed Judy into the lava by accident and when I returned she was
 gone, and all my save games were past this point.

I've already posted how to this but here it is again:

A) Go to tyball's room in level 7 in your last saved game.
 B) Save the game (let's say it's save directory save1).
 C) Exit and start a brand new game (i.e. create a new character).
   Save this game as soon as you get into the dungeon.  Let's
   say this is save dir save2.
 D) Exit the game.
 E) Copy save1\player.dat save2\player.dat
 F) Start the game and load game save2.  You'll find that you're
   character has all the attributes, skills and possesions from
   save1.  You'll be right in Tyball's lair, and Tyball will be
   there!  Kill Tyball again.  Pickup whatever you need now.
   Save this game (again to save2).
 G) Exit the Game.
 H) Copy save2\player.dat save1\player.dat
 I) Restart game using save1 (your original last save on level 7),
   and continue on your merry way, now in possesion of the necessary
   item.

I did exactly the same thing for Judy.  Finished the game and never
 had a problem with this.

-edg-

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 284       Sat Apr 25, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 15:06 EDT
 
Scorpia, Pure sword skill is "Amo." (As in Whammo!) 'm currently stuck on
level 7. My map looks like a large letter G. What's therick to getting to the
right side of the map? I found a  note in the maze in the south central region
indicating that there's a secret passage that will get me across the lava
chasm, but I've clicked my finger forever with no luck. Have hacked the guards
up, still now clues. Farthest north I've reached is the shrine. Is this enough
info to elicit a nudge in the right direction? BTW: I encountered my second
inventory bug, which occured while off- loading some excess baggage. Presto:
doubles of rune bag, Caliburn sword, and some other stuff. Luckily, all that
disappeared was a map cacase full of scolls. The pattern for bugs seems to be
to much stuff in one screen. Bizarre... Thanks, GGreg
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 285       Sat Apr 25, 1992
AGNARI                       at 18:14 EDT
 
  Just two quick questions:

  1) what's the secret to opening that "secret door" in the bullfrog puzzle. 
Doesn't seem that I can get the right use of the levers and buttons and it's
really getting to me.

  2) where does one find a dead rotworm for making stew?

  Origin what is happening lately I'll do a save three periods will show up in
the saving game ......... line and then it just locks up tighter then anyone's
business.  Then if I was saving to save4 I will find nothing in the save4
directory and a messed up save in the save0 directory (which up until now has
always been empty and looks like a temp storage slot).
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 286       Sat Apr 25, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 20:19 EDT
 
Agnari, As I recall, I found a choice rotworm on the Lizard level, in the 
northern E-W corridor by the river,leading to a lever on the west end. They
are distinguishable in death by their eyes looking plaintively up at you. 
Save the odd bits; They make an excellent stock!  BTW: The bullfrog puzzle
drove me to this area (Spoilers). It's a pretty hard puzzle, eh? Uptopic is an
answer. If you don't find it, E-mail, and I'll search the files, though I
usually can't avoid seeing key words that DO kind of spoil the fun... But for
you...;) Kinde{st Regards, Greg Is that stew ready?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 287       Sat Apr 25, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:10 EDT
 
  Thanks for the tip on the rotworms Greg.  Bullfrog is getting me; but, I've
run into a bigger problem  SAVES start to work and then Hang system that a
warmboot won't cure (power off/on only way to regain control).  It maybe with
save1 and save4 have to do more checking I'm either in the troll area or
Dorna's when these saves almost always HANG  and Dorna's area is the only
place I've seen the game hang other then the save thing recently. Compared the
Exe file against a fresh unzipped copy of the dl'ed patch and they were the
same.

  Origin, what's causing this sudden inability to save the game?  Could
somehting in a save file(s) taken a hit and be causing this trouble (checked
memory and that tested ok, hard drive checked for bad sectors none found). BTW
I'd like some help yesterday :) but since it's the weekend, don't really
expect anything till monday or tuesday :(

  Time to backup what I have, purge the drive and reload it all and hope that
helps some.  If not possibly the news tuesday will report about a crazed Druid
ramapaging thru the offices of Origin zapping employees into bullfrogs and
toads as he muttered something about save this   ;)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 288       Sat Apr 25, 1992
D.MILLER31 [ZyGorn]          at 22:15 EDT
 
Hello, everyone!  I must be suffering from Brain Lock or something. I am on
level 7,and for the life of me, I cannot find either the Crown of Maze
Protection or the Orb.  Help!!!! (and you can be specific).  E-Mail would be
appreciated.  Thanx.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 289       Sat Apr 25, 1992
J.CURTICE [Go Bruins]        at 22:28 EDT
 
SCORPIA,
        I gave the nugget to the Dwark King and in return he gave me a magical
weapon (It's been ahwile but I think it was an axe.) Anyway,  I was
essentailly finished so I never used it....I never did get the password out of
him, tho....

Assassin

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 290       Sun Apr 26, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 01:34 EDT
 
Ag,

Reminds me of the buggy version of Ultima VI, where you had to start over when
you used the fix...Ag?...NO!...Put down that wand!...RRRIDIPP!
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 291       Sun Apr 26, 1992
AGNARI                       at 03:03 EDT
 
  Even without a teleporter spell Origin (Austin) is only 3 hours away (ok so
it's at 70=75 3 hours and not 55 ;).

  So I figured it was best to start over, gives me something to do while
waiting for the response from the Origin folks enjoying their last weekend as
humans - before I zap them into toadies! 

  This time thru I've stopped long enough to find out (those green plants all
over the place with the berries and without are edible) has anyone  ever found
a use for those bits of stick/wood littering the area???  Don't want to
clutter the map marking them if I don't need to.  Also this time I'm bothering
to indicate exactly which runes I pick up and where.  Game may not always run
well but atleast I'll have good notes ;)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 292       Sun Apr 26, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 04:50 EDT
 
  To any who may be interested,

  I find that my game starts to act crazy after an inventory bug showed up.  I
either have to restore from a previous save, or else restart if all my saves
are beyond that point.  However, once I stop using DISK CACHING the inventory
bug never showed and I was able to finish the game (while hauling tons of
stuff).

                                        Jason

 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 293       Sun Apr 26, 1992
AGNARI                       at 05:08 EDT
 
  What flavor of disk caching were you using???? I just started using the MS
DOS 5.0 smartdrv.sys - arrrrrgh if this is the one that caused you problems.
Think I'll turn it off till you respond (as I've just started over and I don't
want any of these saves to be trashed by smartdrv and then start over again!)
just to be safe.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 294       Sun Apr 26, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 12:23 EDT
 
AG, I use Smartdrv.sys, too.  Just to be safe, I give the 'puteplenty of time
to "digest" saves, before I restore, save , restore, etc. at  shrines. That's
a real bite about your restart. That and the inventory bug constantly intrude
on my willing suspension of disbelief in this  gI'm constantly reminded I'm
playing a computer game. But, OTOH, there's no other game I'd rather
restart,even with a worn dagger :) . Seriously, though, I'm still STYMIED on
level 7. Can't open any doors, even by bashing. Tried using my saved up shrine
points to increase picklock to 30. No luck. What's the point in investing
points in a  "skill" that you can't use...ORIGIN?  Any help in getting through
doors , especially the one across the chasm of fire, past the traps and
teleporters, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Kindest regards,
Greg
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 295       Sun Apr 26, 1992
K.SETO4 [Ken]                at 12:47 EDT
 
Guys,

I need some EXPLICIT help here regarding the cup of wonder...

1) Who do I talk to  to find out about the CUP?  I've yet to hear anything
about the location of this cup from anything other than the spoilers!

2) Is the incense related to the CUP? what does 'hn sa in' mean? I tried it at
a shrine and it didn't work...should I talk to someone about this first?

3) Tried the flute in both the gazer room in lv 3 and the southern alcove
where Ossika was in lv3...using the song 354237875 several times..to no avail

I think that I have to talk to someone about the cup first right?? I need
explicit answers to ALL of these questions!

I'm soooo frustrated!

I appreciate any answers

Thanks, Ken


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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 296       Sun Apr 26, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 17:02 EDT
 
A few doors on 7 will bash down. The one that puts you into the maze and leads
you to freeing the girl and another stairway to level 8 can be bashed down.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 297       Sun Apr 26, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 17:42 EDT
 
 

 Ken:  You're very close.  The Cup is in the room directly west
   of the northwestern shrine on level 3.  You'll need that flute
   and how to play Mardin's song.



 Well, I'm down to the finale.  However, I keep getting killed
 by the Slasher in that weird area between moongates or whatever...
 Now what???


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 298       Sun Apr 26, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 18:27 EDT
 
Greg,

The bone key and skull key open most of the doors on level 7.  I believe you
get them when you've dealt with Tyball.  You'll find out about the rest once
you're past those doors.

Even with a lockpick skill of 30, there appear to be some doors that are
"pickproof" (now that's fairly realistic, right?).

Ken,

You need to talk to Louvnon on level 6.  It appears you've talked to
Kneenibble and Frygen already.  Try rearranging the syllables you got from
smoking "incense" :^).  The gazer room was the right place...you didn't make
any mistakes while playing the tune, did you?
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 299       Sun Apr 26, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 18:32 EDT
 
Jeff T.,

Keep a few healing potions handy, or bring up a healing spell before you open
that gate!  Also, remember what you saw in the crystal on level 1?  (GREEN
PATH)  You can't kill the Slasher.

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 300       Sun Apr 26, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 19:19 EDT
 
Ditto on the message from D.Miller.  I am stuck in the maze that probably
leads to tyball on the eastern edge.  I have mapped everything west and  north
of this maze.  South of this maze area (east of the mines) is not mapped.  In
the maze, there is some kind of death trap.  I instantly die when moving
around and reach a certain area...  Can someone help with the following:
   - Where can I get the crown if Maze Protection I heard about?  I have
     a crown of Great Protection.  I also found a "Perfect Crown" which
     still said "Perfect Crown" after name identify spell so I tossed it.
     I have some other crowns from higher levels but no more from lvl 7.
     Please help me get through this maze so I can kill Tyball.
   - There are several doors I cannot open.  All are "massive".  I think
     anything less than a massive door can be picked or bashed.  It appears
     keys for the massive doors in prison must be in tyball area or in the
     area east of the mines to south.  I found map in southern area saying
     there is a secret passage east but I cannot find it.  Clicked ever-
     where.  My search skill is around 25.  I just hit lvl 16 so have two
     more mantras to chant.
   - Where is the shard I was told about in the game?  I found a bone key
     but no shard...
   - What was the dwarf king's password?  Since I used it way up on lvl 2,
     I never wrote it down.  Now another dwarf on lvl 7 is asking me for
     it.  
   - On level 6, in mage area, there was an upset spector with a name like
     Hector or something.  Would not respond to me.  Is this ghost 
     significant in some way? -------------- Someone a few appends ago was
having problem with Frog puzzle.  I never had to solve it.  Just levitate and
fly through the secret door.  You  should be able to see outline high on wall.
-------------- To Origin:
  I have 10 fingers, how come I can only use 2 rings at once?  I now have
  rings of poison protect, magic protect, resist blows, levitate, and
  jump.  
  I am near end of game and can't wait for UU2.  Perhaps in UU2 we can
  Kick as well as punch.  Perhaps make kicking doors more effective than
  punching them.   Thanks.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 301       Sun Apr 26, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 21:58 EDT
 
 
 Soulcutter:  You want the Crown of Maze Navigation.  The stairs
   that lead to the this Crown are in the north-eastern part of
   level 7, off the lava river.  The dwarf password is
   deco morono. The spector's name is Warren.  No idea as to
   his purpose, would like to know myself (if there is one).


 Well, figured the ending out on my own.   What a game.   I
 finsished this in 6 days (game-time).  Does anyone know if
 there is a limit as to the number of days allowed before
 (maybe) the Slayer kicks out on his own????  Well, guess I'll
 try and play U7 since the next major RPG releases aren't
 due until summer....

 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 302       Sun Apr 26, 1992
G.B.SMITH [ ]                at 22:09 EDT
 
I got hit with the inventory bug as I passed from level 6 to 7. It was key
items I need to complete the game.  Unfortunately I didn't discover it soon
enough to have a pre-saved game...and this was the version Origin uploaded to
the library.  What do I do? Doesn't Origin play test their games???
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 303       Sun Apr 26, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 23:42 EDT
 
I mapped entire NW area and can find now crown of maze navigation.  The only
other crown I found on this level was described as "Perfect Crown" even after
a name identify spell.  I have searched both from the air and from lava
walking (Dont' know what I would do without dragon skin boots). Can anyone
give an EXACT location in this topic or with email so I can see if it is still
there?  Perhaps behind a hidden room.   If I can't find it, is it possible to
get through the maze without the  crown or is there another way to reach
tyball? Thanks
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 304       Mon Apr 27, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 00:18 EDT
 
Soulcutter, the way to get to the crown is this: jump off the northern bridge
into the lava river and run south, preferably with a daylight spell going so
you can see better. Keep an eye on the left-hand wall as you run along the
river. You'll see an alcove with a door. That's the place you want.

Regarding the inventory bug: it hit me only once in the game, early on.
Fortunately, I had a save to go back to, so it wasn't too much of a problem.
After that, I made sure that no pack or bag or box ever held more than seven
items in it (or if it did, that was only very temporary!). Excess items were
dropped off in various locations in case I needed them later. Once I
established that method of inventory control, the bug never showed up again.
This was playing the original version, without the upgrade in the library.

              Best,
               - Scorpia

P.S. Soulcutter, that's the far northern bridge, *not* the one that leads to
the ghost area.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 305       Mon Apr 27, 1992
B.MEIER [Soulcutter]         at 00:24 EDT
 
Never mind on the Crown question.  I found it.  The room was in center of map
not in N.E. and it can only be accessed by stairs from lvl 8 which are in turn
near the stairs from lvl 7 near the door in the lava river.  Has anyone tried
taking the other crowns (which means killing all the earth golems and imps)? 
Something to try after game ends...  :)
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 306       Mon Apr 27, 1992
J.OKAMURA1 [Kami]            at 02:55 EDT
 
The ghost on level 6 in the mage area appears to be more Origin humor.  Look
at the credits for the game...see any familiar names?

Kami
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 307       Mon Apr 27, 1992
SCORPIA                      at 10:52 EDT
 
Right Kami, that's one of Origin's little in-jokes. I had a good laugh when I
came across that specter ;).

            Best,
            - Scorpia
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 308       Mon Apr 27, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 20:17 EDT
 
Kami, Thanks for the tip. Must have hit Tyball with a lucky punch and offed
him quickly. Now, I'm embarassed to admit I can't figure out how to free the
princess. That's the wle point of the game, isn't it? How'll I ever live it
down. Can't find the lever to raise the portcullis.  Have had fun tracking
down various and sundry tripartite door openers, though. Help me free the
princes, please! Kindest Regards, Greg ( who uses saran wrap and a fine point
magic marker to get through tough mazes leading to wimpy wizards...Just lay
the ran wrap over the screen while mapping, and you can pick your way through.
Also, throw a rock or gem ah as you go.  If there's a trap, the rock will
often turn to a crisp, marking the sordid square) Beck
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 309       Mon Apr 27, 1992
DR-RAE [Rae!]                at 20:24 EDT
 
Hi there!  I'm a Level 4 fighter and found my way down to 2nd level and used
the shrine there.  My problem is that there are a lot of locked doors on the
1st level that I can't get into.  May not be necessary since I've explored
most of that level except for the lower right hand corner ... keep drowning in
the water over there.

Three questions: 1) Is there another key on the 1st level and where is it?  2)
What's the secret to getting past that water.  3) Is there any need to get
into the ankh shaped room except to visit the shrine?

Oh, and where is the king on the 1st level...the queen said I could talk to
him, but I can't find him or a room with levers.

rae
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 310       Mon Apr 27, 1992
ORIGIN                       at 20:41 EDT
 
Argnari,
        Check to see if there is enough room on the hard drive and if there
are any bad sectors or lost links. (might wana check the files and buffers and
see if they are set to 25 each). The boot disk is highly recommended.

Gerg,
     All the keys to the doors are on level 7. The dragon scale boots would
help ya out here.

Soulcutter,
           Gee I guess the programers decided to only let you use 2 rings at
once. I'll let them know.

G.B.Smith,
         Make sure that your not over packing the bags. You can store items in
rooms on different levels to make it easier to travel and get things in the
game.
                                Allan

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 311       Mon Apr 27, 1992
AGNARI                       at 21:08 EDT
 
 Allan, sorry I didn't include that info in the initial statement (we CS grads
tend to take doing that stuff for granted and thus don't mention that it was
done).  Yes the HD has 3.5megs left with all four saves stored, I have a boot
config/autoexec that is just for games EMM and mouse, with buffers and files
at 25.  As I said originally, I checked the HD for bad sectors and found none,
it's definitely a glitch of somekind on the programs part.
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 312       Tue Apr 28, 1992
D.DORBUCK [ZAPHOD]           at 00:57 EDT
 
Hey Guys,
        Im on level 6 and have a few questions. Where exactly is the VAS rune
?? I talked to the wizard and he told me what to do (put the 4 jems on the
posts ..) where is this room ?? have I overlooked it ? Oh easy way to defeat
the Golem , use the freeze time scroll (the sucker didn't hit me once) hee
hee.
                                Thanks
                                        Zaphod

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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 313       Tue Apr 28, 1992
W.LASKOWSKI [Grizz]          at 01:31 EDT
 
GBeck7,

If I remember correctly, I just talked to the Princess and she told me, kill
the monster, gotta tell Dad, and disappeared.  Try Skull key on portcullis
too.

I wonder if it is the disk cacheing that causes the inventory bug. I do not
cache, and never had the faintest glimmer of a problem.

The humor in this game was subtle and well done--another reason it is IMHO
superior to U7.  You'll get some belly laughs in U7 when you click on a book
and find it's an ad for a U7 cluebook or the longer "fictionalized" cluebook
about the avatar (although it was nice to see someone in Britannia reading
Ringworld by Larry Niven).
 ------------
Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 314       Tue Apr 28, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 07:47 EDT
 
Grizz, Thanks for the help! Thought I tried talking to Princess,but with no
response. Will try another language. Good point about humor. These games need
more, even if it's unintentional like the following: I was exploring level 8
with my 6 year old daughter sitting on my lap. We entered the domain of the
Ultimate Bad Guy. Kristen was quite  attentive, telling me to watch out for
him, etc. I decided to tap UBG on the shoulder just to see what happened.
Well, the ensuing "battle" didn't last long, to say the least! But Kristen
offered some consolation: "Daddy, at least you got his PANTS off!" Well, we
can't wait to keep on exploring to see what we have to do to get rid of "Mr
BIG." ;) This is actually a pretty good game for older kids: Lots of
challenging but not ridiculous puzzles, and the notion that you don't kill
creatures unless they attack you first. Even a 6 year old can understand that.
Kindest Regards, Greg
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Category 16,  Topic 12
Message 315       Tue Apr 28, 1992
R.SANDERS18 [Orion]          at 19:44 EDT
 
Can you do anything with the orbs?  I've found the ones on levels 1 and 2 but
couldn't do anything other than look in them.  Did I miss something?

Rob
