Relayer 1977 – 1981

           

It was also during these years I was working at Southwest that a band called Relayer was performing and making an impression in the Wichita club scene. During the day, I worked at Southwest and nights and weekends, the band played practically anywhere we could. The weeks were sometimes so very long and I know that they were some of the very toughest for Deb as she was home alone with the kids.

            To step back just a bit, I’ll return to my first introduction to Mike Gleason.

            It was at the first Joyland Music Festival of Joy. Shamblin and I were working hard to make things run smoothly on the different stages where local talent was performing. The picnic area was teaming with people and the general atmosphere was very positive and exciting.

            I had worked hard to book local musical acts from church’s and ministries and from friends to fill the 3 stages that were to host musical entertainment. After weeks of phone calls and coordination, everything had come together and the entire event was under way.

            Whenever possible, Shamblin and I would go to listen to those that were performing. We were at the main stage on Saturday afternoon when an act named Testament took the stage. He and I stayed to listen and found ourselves knocked out.

            The thing that initially grabbed our attention was the presence of horns. One person had a trombone and another had a trumpet. This was reminiscent of the 70’s horn bands that brought together a powerful wind section and a rock rhythm section. We anticipated something out of the ordinary when Testament began their set.

            Mike was playing guitar at first and singing. His writing was inspired and powerful, hardly typical of the 70’s Jesus Movement music that was so commonplace. He then switched to piano for a couple of songs. He then switched to trumpet for a finale that sounded more like Chicago or Chase then any Christian rock band. This guy was definitely not your ordinary Christian guy, he was gifted in an extraordinary way.

            The crowd was on their feet as were Shamblin and I, begging Testament for an encore. I could see right away that they weren’t really prepared for an encore, but they were going to give it a try.

            The music was on standard staff paper, I could see that Mike had scored out the arraignments and each musician had to regroup and get their music back in place for the repeat of the Chicago style finale. Once again, the crowd was on their feet and it was clear that we had seen something very special. This was my first glimpse of Mike Gleason and his writing and performing skills.  

            I mentioned earlier the first time I was with Mike on stage and the difficulty separating from Shamblin and the Friendly People. But it was due to what I had seen and heard at the Festival of Joy that assured me that I wanted to be playing music with Mike.

The evolution of Relayer was staged throughout the years between 1977 and 1981. Early in our history, we played exclusively only original songs, mostly written by Mike. Our attempts to get in front of an audience were mostly frustrating. Few venues in Wichita were interested in a Christian rock band playing only original material. Try as we may, the gigs were few and far between.

            We did manage a very modest following from the performances we did around Wichita. But as time went on it became apparent to us that we would have to accommodate our potential audiences and incorporate “cover songs” into the song list. Following is a chronology of the band and it’s members

            In the beginning the band was called Avatar and consisted of:

Mike Gleason – keyboards

Glenn Salter – Guitar

Al Jones  – Guitar

Wilmer Atkinson– Bass

Dave Chanowski – Drums

            When we started out, Mike was working at Southwest Paper Company. I was working for Steamatic, Al was an aeronautical engineer at Cessna Aircraft and Wilmer was an electrical engineer at Boeing. Glenn may have been at Wichita Band Instrument Co. then, but I’m not sure. His wife Lee was working there I’m sure. We were certainly a diverse group of characters but we created a unique musical blend that I’ve not heard before or sense.

            This line up did a mixture of “orchestral rock” and jazz. I was switching off from drums to vibraphone during the sets at this time. It was very odd and I’m sure confusing to an audience that was trying to relate to what we were doing. We would go from a Gleason original that was very much like Kansas or Yes in its style and arraignment, to old jazz standards with me on vibes and no drummer. This band was almost schizophrenic in its performances but those that heard us liked what was offered.

            Our opportunities to play and perform were few. We played at Friends University concert hall for just a small crowd and a few friends. We also played at a Christian Coffee house on east Douglas for the people that gathered there on Weds nights. I think that we did that gig at least a couple of times as this was the most progressive Christian audience in the area.

            The problem was that there was no genre that we fit into for the audience to relate to. We were too raucous for Christian audiences and those that enjoyed the jazz, and we were too obscure for those that did enjoy the rock part of our repertoire as it stood. There was no venue that knew what to classify us as and no audience that could relate to our musical diversity.

            We used the auditorium of the Waco United Methodist Church for our rehearsal hall for a period of time. Mike and Al both attended the church and the pastor was willing to let us the sanctuary to rehearse in the evenings.

            It was here that a humorous story was born. Al had a quite dry and offbeat sense of humor. Being a few years older than myself and older still then Mike, he had seen the Woodstock years and some of the rebelliousness of American youth. He was quite the fan of the Grateful Dead and early Bruce Springsteen when Mike and I knew almost nothing about either of them.

            Rehearsing in the church was interesting partly because in summer when it was warm, we didn’t run the air conditioning so as to not incur costs to the church. That meant that we opened the sanctuary windows for fresh air. We were very much amplified and quite noisy I’m sure. We had on several occasions, phone calls from neighbors near the church asking just exactly what type of service was going on there that would make enough noise to keep them awake.

            But on one evening, we had been rehearsing one of the trio numbers that only involved Al and Wilmer and myself. It was very much like we were a band within a band. We needed a separate name. What would be though was the question.

            We took a break and ended up walking into the church’s tiny library. Talking and just taking a breather allowed us to rest some and mull over new ideas. Someone of the three of us happened to look at the bookshelf and saw the binder of a book. The title was “At the Pace of a Hen” the author was Benton. How the name actually took form I don’t know, but from that book title, we became The Benton Hen Trio. Al would wear a leather trench coat and hat and we would play our guitar, bass and vibes numbers as The Benton Hen Trio. It’s sad that it only lasted a few months.

            Al and Wilmer left partly to do with Mike’s dominance over the material and partly because of the direction of the band. Mike and Glenn and I all felt that we need to move toward the more orchestral rock side and the other two couldn’t see leaving the jazz influences behind. I believe that this was around 1979. This was unfortunate because both were excellent musicians in their own rights.

The next iteration the band was:

Mike Gleason – keyboards

Glenn Salter – Guitar

Randy Fields – Bass

Dave Chanowski – Drums

            Randy Fields joined the band after a couple of other bassists had auditioned and nothing had really gelled for us. Randy was from a church that I had attended long ago, Midway Southern Baptist Church. This was located on the old highway 81 south of Wichita nearly to Haysville. I think that Randy heard about us from a friend in the church that had come to an earlier Relayer performance and totally enjoyed us. Randy had the technique needed for the very involved material Mike wrote and also the feel for rock and roll that gave him the edge. It was a very natural fit and Randy integrated into the group very quickly.

This line up played only original material, 98% of which was Mike’s. Glenn provided a few songs to the group, but his writing was average at best. Playing those next to any of Mike’s was easily identifiable. This was the beginning of the rift between the 2 composers.

We still had so few places to perform at and struggled for a chance to be in front of an audience. We did have the good fortune to play at the grand opening of the Kansas Coliseum on the main stage. There were only 5 or 6 acts that were invited to play that day for people touring the new facility. We were excited to be a part of this big celebration. What we didn’t discover until after the fact was that every other act that performed had been somehow connected to the promoters of the event and their auditions were actually non-existent.  Ours was the only demo tape that was seriously considered for the opening.

This line up of Relayer also recorded songs at High Fidelity Studios in the Riverside area in Wichita for our first demo. Knowing that we would have to have a tape to promote ourselves, we all pooled our resources and were able to pay for about 20 hours of studio time. Those sessions resulted in 6 recorded songs.  All but one of these was a Gleason original. We were quite green at studio work as this was our first outing. We had little idea of how to make a clean and powerful studio recording when our experience was only in live performance. Needless to say, this earliest attempt at producing a demo was very rough, but it was a start.

As soon as we had the finished product we began mailing them out to radio stations, concert promoters, record labels and friends. We sent them to anyone that might provide us an opportunity to perform and show what we could really do musically.

            This demo did mange to get us an interview on KEYN radio in Wichita though. A local radio DJ named Jerry Sherwood asked us to take part in a small feature he was doing on Sunday mornings called, “Wichita: Talent Spotlight”. The songs recorded in HI-Fi were used as background for interviews with each of us about the band, what we were about, and what we saw as our future in the music scene both locally and nationally. I expect that as many as 20 to 30 people in the Wichita area heard that interview on that Sunday morning.

We played a concert at Herman Hill Park that same afternoon. This was a popular spot for local acts to get to perform in front of people for little of nothing out of pocket. The park had a stage and electrical connections for amplifiers, guitars and PA equipment .On the day we played when asked if anyone there had heard the radio program, there was no response from the crowd. In our naivety we thought that there would actually be someone in Wichita that would hear this and take some action. It wasn’t to be this day.

            We used this first demo as a way of introducing ourselves and to send to Christian record labels. I believe that we sent tapes to every label we knew of and were rejected by them all. At this time popular Christian music was nothing like the material we were doing. Gospel quartets and solo performers were still the mainstream. There were a few notable exceptions that came out of the late 60’s and mid 70’s “Jesus Movement”, but we were way out on the fringes of then current musical offerings.

            Out mixture of rock stylings and orchestral arraignments was unheard of in the Christian music industry. Only popular groups like Yes, Kansas, Emerson, Lake and Palmer and some lesser known ones such as Genesis were doing the type of music that Relayer did. They had very narrow audiences and we had to find a way to tap into that, but in the Christian music field. There was no one in Christian music doing what we were doing and so those people in promotions didn’t know what to do with us.

            Every Christian recording label in the country turned down our demo submissions. It was discouraging but not devastating. We knew that we could do better and that there would be someone that would recognize our potential.

A year of so after doing the Hi-Fi recording, we drove to Anderson Indiana and recorded for a week at the Gaither studios. This happened after a producer named Chuck Thomas heard the tape and wanted an opportunity to produce a recording with us. Chuck worked for a recording label in Chicago and also remembered Mike from years ago when he lived in Wichita. Chuck contacted Mike and asked if we would be interested in doing a recording in a professional studio with him as producer. We immediately began arraigning for our trip to Indiana.

Each of us had to produce a portion of the finds needed to make this recording trip a reality. Sarah, my oldest was with us and she and Deb stayed behind at home. I believe I was the only member of the band that had children at this time. Mike and Glenn were each married and Randy was single so I was the only one to leave a wife and child behind to pursue this dream.

We spent a week, five days, in the studio from 6 pm until around 7 am, as this was time that was unused in a Christian recording studio. Chuck and an engineer were the only ones in the facility besides us. Each of us learned valuable skills about studio recording.

I was challenged and excited about playing in a real drum booth. The process of recording each instrument and then adding the next was new and exhilarating. We worked hard all through the night and we were deadly serious about getting the most out of this opportunity.

During the days, after the recording sessions, we stayed at a friend’s place that was a student at Anderson College in town. It was a typical college students place with sparse furniture and little in the refrigerator other than condiments and soda pop.

Those sessions in Anderson resulted in 4 completed songs. We ended the week with a concert at a local Anderson concert hall promoted by a local Christian radio station.

Like practically all of our concerts at that time, the crowd was light and somewhat confused by our performance. Our hope was to recoup some of the expenses of the trip by performing live. There wasn’t much of anything left after paying the rental for the hall.

I don’t recall making anything significant from that concert. Not to even mention the fact that by Friday we were all exhausted from the recording schedule and hardly in our best for performing.

All things considered we gained some very valuable recording experience that week in Anderson. We learned about concepts such as studio technique and performance and effective preparation for the sessions. We learned how to capture a sound that would make our music accessible and powerful to an uninitiated listener. All of the material we recorded was Gleason written and that in itself became an issue with Glenn who thought that he could write viable material for the band.

One of the things we discovered that week was that Glenn, who had no music theory background, had no idea how to formulate an ad-lib guitar solo on the spot. Glenn could copy about anything that he heard from a recording, but had no idea, theory wise, what to do when confronted by a new set of chord changes. Glenn was a very talented guitarist, but he lacked formal music training and that was his weak spot, which became the Achilles’ Heal of Relayer.

The guitar parts that ended up on the recording had to be written by Mike for Glenn in the studio. When confronted with laying down a guitar solo, Glenn was just wandering around on the fret board while the rhythm track played behind him. We didn’t have time for him to experiment and find appropriate solos for the recorded material once it became obvious that he had not adequately prepared for this eventuality. This was a huge issue between Mike and Glenn and ended up forcing this band to split over it

Within weeks after the Anderson recording, the band broke up. The same conflict had arisen between Mike and Glenn concerning musical backgrounds and writing skills and they were no longer able to work together. Mike officially “quit” the band and thus disbanded the group. Since he was the essence of Relayer, his leaving left nothing for the rest of us to continue with. Mike and Randy stayed together without really having anywhere to go or anything to accomplish, but they had the tapes of the Anderson sessions in hand. It simply ended up that Glenn and I were out of the band.

Over the following weeks, I don’t really recall how long, I was lost without being associated with Mike, Randy and Relayer. I felt like a part of my body had been cut off. I discovered that inside me was a living, breathing being that was the musician in my soul. It wasn’t easy to ignore and nearly impossible to turn off.

Mike called me out of the blue, one day, and asked if the three of us could get together to talk. I was elated at the prospect of rejoining these guys that I had such respect for. They came to my house and described the experience of remixing the track from Anderson in another studio in Chicago with Chuck.

To try and give the drums a fuller, “warmer” sound, they had played back only the drums track into an empty studio. Mics were placed under a grand piano to capture some room ambiance as if I were playing there live once again. The comment that I recall from them was that while listening to the drums playing back, separate from the rest of the band, there was never a doubt where I was within the songs. The rhythm was perfect within each song and that they were more impressed then with my playing than when we had originally recorded. It was at this time that they discussed the future of Relayer. Chuck suggested that if Mike really wanted to make a go of this, he would need a drummer of my caliber and according to Chuck someone like myself would be hard to find.

            They asked me then to rejoin them and I gladly accepted.  I was re-incorporated into the band with Randy and Mike as Relayer and we were ready then to proceed on, but we needed a guitar to fill out the instrumentation. Regardless, we were back together as a group.

Performances of note for this line-up, 1) The grand opening of the Kansas Coliseum on the main stage; 2) Herman Hill park one week before the event later known as the Herman Hill Riot.

            As it ended up we found two guitarists and a couple very fine ones at that.

 Here is the next Relayer line up.

Mike Gleason – keyboards

Steve Conrad – Guitar

Dave Yoder - Guitar

Randy Fields – Bass

Dave Chanowski – Drums

            Steve and Dave had been in a band together before this that played regularly at a club called Caesars Palace on the west side of Wichita. I don’t recall their band name right now, nor do I recall how we met. Steve was a dynamic vocalist and above average guitarist. Dave Yoder was a viola player before turning to guitar and so he had brought with him the fine technique that a violist uses in fingering. His solo work was unparalleled and very creative.

            This gave the band two powerful vocal sounds in Mike and Steve and the additional instrumental punch of two electric guitars. It was at this point in time that we began incorporating cover tunes into the repertoire in addition to the originals that were a staple of the band. We also made a concerted effort to book into the more popular clubs in the city in order to expand our audience. Our musical focus was still on original material but we now played music by other popular artists of that time.

            With this line up we played the Tennessee Gin Mill in Wichita and the Tennessee Beer Mill right above it in addition to the affore mentioned Caesars Palace also in Wichita. There was also what had become a regular of ours in Newton, Legal Tender, where we were very well liked and always could expect an excellent crowd. Club owner were willing to take a chance on an unknown group lie us as long as we were playing some material that people would recognize and dance to.

            This 5-piece group did a recording in Mike’s house with professional sound equipment that we purchased for the live shows. For the first time we recorded material other than Mike’s. Steve Conrad was also an accomplished composer, although without the formal, classical training that Mike had. We successfully recorded 6 more tunes with a slightly less than professional sound, but it was sufficient for us to use as a demo.

            This iteration of Relayer began playing more often and in more places than then previous one. We had found some acceptance in the crowds as we played more “cover material”. Our boundaries had expanded and we began to really become a cohesive unit capable of nearly anything we put our minds to collectively. 

            On one occasion we were invited to perform at an outdoor event at Wichita’s 81 Speedway. This resulted in an interesting coincidence for me some years later outside of the band. Our reputation as excellent musicians and our live performance got us the invitation to play with several other groups at what was billed as “Summer Jam ‘80” at the speedway. A local band with aspirations of “the big time” had put together this concert on the track with several other groups as their warm up acts.

            I forget where we were in the line up. I believe we did the lead in for the headliner that night. We played 5 or 6 songs in our 30 to 40 minute time slot. It was a mix of cover tunes and original songs and the crowd response was good. Relayer performed that night without a hitch. We were feeling accepted by the people of Wichita.

            The headliners for this event were known as “Easy Love” and they had over an exaggerated idea of their abilities and their appeal to the public. They even arraigned for a limousine to deliver them from one end of the track to the stage in an attempt to simulate their being truly important and successful. I guess you can tell that I felt, as did the majority of the crowd, it didn’t work. They just managed to look ridiculous.

 We watched this from the dirt track just off stage. It was a comedy of errors as the roadies set up their equipment and began tuning. They all acted as if they were preparing for Styx or Journey or some other “big time” act in spite of the truth that they were just locals from Wichita Ks. .

            Prior to Easy Love taking the stage, their roadies set up their instruments. Who knows who these guys were in real life. They did their best to emulate the roadies and stagehands of real major musical acts. For each instrument there was a roadie and they were tuning and adjusting everything.

            I recall the drum set that was hoisted up on the back of this flatbed truck that was the stage. There was a low hanging bank of lights right above the drum platform that was not a problem for those of us having been their earlier. There was no shortage of headroom as each of the previous drummers set up and tore down their kits. Unfortunately, the drummer for Easy Love wanted to have his entire kit lifted up in place to the truck with everything attached to his own platform.

            What had not been anticipated was the height of the cymbals and stands that were nailed or bolted to this platform being taking up in one piece. As this crew muscled the whole set up to the truck, the cymbals struck the lights hanging over the drum platform. The unmistakable sound of cymbals crashing and falling was immediately evident to the crowd. This motley crew then had to lower the heavy drum-set to the ground and readjust the height that the cymbals stands were set to so as to clear the lights hanging above. It was like watching the Keystone Cops trying to prepare a stage for a rock band.

            As this roadie crew saw the approaching “stars” they began to try and hype the crowd into a frenzy for Easy Love’s arrival. This was cute and a funny at best. The band exits their limo, with scantily clothes girls on their arms and bottles of Jack Daniels in their hands. They really gave it their all to look the part of real rock stars.

            Taking the stage they took up their instruments and began greeting the crowd, telling us that we were in for a rock and roll show like we had never seen. Unfortunately, when they hit their first chord to begin the show, everyone heard the awful discord of guitars that had not been tuned to each other. It seems that the roadies had used tuners to tune each guitar, but had not bothered to verify that they were in tune with each other and the keyboards. It was really some comedic moments and an occasion that I’ll never forget.

            I don’t recall how long this iteration of Relayer existed. It was a year or so if I remember correctly. I do know that once again direction of the group and disagreements over writing music caused the breakup. This time all that was left was Mike and I.

            Aa had been the case before, Mike had a vision of where the band was going and he was focused on being the primary composer. Steve and Dave were not willing to let Mike take total control and so the power struggle was under way.

            Randy found an opportunity to go with another local band playing more current music. Dave Yoder found it no longer tolerable to play in clubs and didn’t want to continue to perform there. Steve, I believe was experiencing marital problems that seemed to creep into the realm that was the band’s domain.

            Needless to say Mike and I started over again. We looked at guitarist and bassists and auditioned several. We even drove down to Ark City to jam with a chiropractor that played guitar and synthesizer. None of these seemed the right fit.

            The band evolved into the following.

            Mike Gleason – keyboards

Kevin Brown – Guitar

Steve White – Bass

Dave Chanowski – Drums

This was the final version of Relayer and really the last. We, Mike and I, had decided that our only way of getting into the music business was to move to where the music business was. Chuck Thomas, in Chicago, had told us that if we could get there he could get us studio work and get us started. We could then support our families and start the band anew. This was the opportunity that we had been looking for. We were determined to create the very best “cover band” in the area and generate enough money to get ourselves out of town.        

Kevin and Steve had extensive experience playing professionally in the area and brought their contacts within the club scene with them. They could get us in places that we had been unable to get into before because their names with other groups were familiar.

Along with the new guitar and bass came a soundman and a light technician. Steve Sedek, (known as DR for his love of Dr Doom of comic book fame), and Tom Wheeler our new soundman were welcome additions to Relayer. .

            For the first time, we had a pretty professional set up and support. Our sound system was pretty close to “state of the art”, with tri-amp’ed sound segregation and lots of effects and equalization. The light show was pretty good. Nothing like a real big time touring show, but certainly more impressive than anything we had used before.

            The four of us worked very hard on replicating the top hits of the time with lots attention to detail. Instrumental parts were duplicated as closely as possible and we worked our vocals hard so that there was nothing missing from really rich sounds from bands like Styx and Journey.

            Our break came when Kevin called a friend of his that was a DJ at T-95. This was Greg Gann and he came to Mike’s house to hear us for the first time.  We played from of our Styx and Bad Company for him. He immediately invited us to play for T-95s rock night at Pogo's. This was really great and we were pumped about it.

            We practiced hard so as to make a really good impression right away. The night came and we were setting up on the stage at Pogo’s. Gregg did a DJ thing from the disco DJ booth. He would play some music for the first hour or so and then he introduced us. This was the first time that the radio station had brought live music to the rock and roll night.

            We open with “Rockin the Paradise” by Styx. The lights were all out and spotlight was trained on Mike setting at the piano. The opening, “Tonight’s the night we make history, honey you and I

 And I’ll take any risk to hold back the hands of time

And stay with you here tonight.”

With the last line. . .”Here at the Par – a – Dise!” the lights came up and the rest of the band came in and it felt like an explosive moment.  The crowd came alive and we “killed ‘em!” There have been few other moments in my musical experience that equaled this one. It was absolutely fabulous.

            We started playing the rock and roll nights monthly. Over time we were invited to open up for Chubby Checker and another band named DVC. Their claim to fame was that their drummer was the younger brother of Tommy Bolin. Bolin was famous for “Teaser” and “Post Toastie” and later for joining “The James Gang” on their album “Bang!”and playing on their hit, (Got this feelin’)Must Be Love .These guys were so typical of what everyone imagines “rock stars” are like.

            We began playing at the Tennessee Gin Mill and Beer Mill as well as Backstage and we still got to play at Legal Tender, the little bar we had played for all the way back to the early days of the band. We had achieved our goal of being a really great cover band. Now it was just a matter of waiting to save enough money to mover to Chicago.

            But that was never to be. Mike had made contact with Kerry Livgren some time before when he was looking to buy his Yamaha electric grand piano. He got an address for Kerry through Terre Johnson, our friend that had worked as a musical critic for the Wichita Eagle. Mike had sent Kerry a tape of the original Relayer material and surprisingly received a call back from Kerry.

            Well, because of this initial contact, Kerry contacted Mike again when Steve Walsh, the original lead singer of Kansas, left and they need to replace him. Kerry asked mike if he was interested in auditioning for duties on vocals, keyboard and  writing. Well of course he was interested. He was gracious enough to come and talk to me about it, saying that he didn’t want to go if it would mean losing our friendship. Naturally I said no that he should take the chance and maybe I could catch up later.

            Kevin was another story however. Relayer was playing at the Gin Mill when Mike came in to tell everybody that he was going to Atlanta to audition for Kansas. Kevin was livid. He was furious. He accused Mike of abandoning us and the opportunity that we all had. He called him a quitter and a cheat.

            We heard about an occasion that Kevin said he was offered a chance to play with Chicago while in college. He said that an agent that said he was looking for a replacement for the guitarist that had died in the rock group Chicago approached him. He explanation was that he was committed to completing his education and that quitting that would cheat himself and his school.

            I never really believed this story. I couldn’t imagine having the opportunity to play with one of the greatest touring rock groups in history and refusingjust to finish a college degree. From that point on the tension in the band was apparent.

            We finished our scheduled gigs from that time. I wish I could remember where we played and when we preformed for the last time. It was very probably in the Tennessee Gin Mill, but I don’t recall. Mike completed his obligation to Relayer and began his process of going to Atlanta to audition.

            After that Kevin was determined to prove to the work that Mike was not the focal point of the band and that Relayer could continue on without him. I think that we played just a couple of gigs as a 3 piece with marginal success. It wasn’t just that Mike was gone, but we did lose a significant part of our repertoire without the keyboard.

            I seem to recall Kevin asking people everywhere we went about the sound of the band. He wanted to hear people say that Relayer was just as good without Mike was it had been with him. The facts were that we weren’t the same and certainly not as powerful. The band folded shortly there after.

            Kevin and I did try a couple of other avenues to keep playing but I suppose that my devotion to Mike was showing and Kevin couldn’t get around it.

            We practiced briefly with some guys that we had played with before to try and get a new group together. The guys were horn players that were very good. I think that they were 2 trumpets and a trombone and they were looking to play more. Ron Barnhart was one of the trumpeters and he was quite good. Unfortunately, for Kevin and I, they and their cohorts were really into the Little River Band and that was the core of their interest. It never really gelled and Kevin and I parted ways.

            This was in 1981 or 1982.

 

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