Blackthorne Software Discussion Forum: Seller's Assistant Release: Open Letter to John and eBay

By Jim Roberts (downmeltd) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 01:20 pm:

Can you possibly explain to me just what is the exact purpose of this new system? I seem to be lost. When we bought this software back in 1999, even I seem to remember that we were going to be able to continue upgrading and updating the program as needed. I have been using Beta versions as they are released, giving comments when asked by others, recommending your program to others, etc. And now youo want to charge me the same amount that I initially paid for this program EVERY YEAR just to keep using it? And let’s look at some of the new geatures that are supposed to make this system worth our money:

“Unlimited use of the products at a set monthly fee. There are no additional Seller’s Assistant fees – no matter how many listings you create and manage. Please note that normal eBay fees will still apply, however.”
OK, so basically I get the same thing I have been getting, but now I have to pay a monthly fee?

“Free email customer support through Blackthorne and eBay.”
Once again, haven’t I been getting this anyway? Sure, eBay’s supporting AAPro is new, but we all know how good eBay support is in the first place. Gotta love canned responses and 7 day waits for answers.

“Free upgrades to the latest versions available, including regular major upgrades.”
Define major upgrades, because up until now, this again is exactly what I’ve been getting. I thought 1.27 was a major upgrade over 1.26, but I didn’t have to pay for THAT. Do you mean to tell me that you have something that is going to revolutionize AAPro, compared to what has already been done? And it’s going to revolutionize it EVERY MONTH? Because at $15.99 a month, which comes to $191.88 a year, there had better be a WHOLE new world of improvements.

“A new spreadsheet view called "Multiview" has been added. This allows you to see information on all your auctions at once. In the Multiview, you can sort or rearrange the columns of data so they display anyway you'd like. You can also print or export from the Multiview.”
And this is new HOW? This is worth an extra $200 a year HOW?

“Using the Multiview, you can select multiple listings to do batch submissions, batch deletions, or batch upload of images. With batch submissions, you no longer need to use Mister Lister. Simply select all the listings you want to submit, click the "Submit Listings" button, scroll through the previews if desired and click "Submit All". All your listings will be started, and you will see all the new eBay Listing numbers filled in.”
At the risk of repeating myself, I must ask HOW this is worth an extra $200 a year, when we have it NOW?

“A new Filter Studio makes it possible for you to create custom views of your data.”
Obviously repeat ad nauseum.

“An improved email studio allows you to pick and choose sales records from the Sales Multiview and send mail in batches. Single buyers with multiple wins will get combined into a single email.”
Am I to take it this is all written here to suck in the newbies?

“We've added support for the new eBay features including Buy It Now, List in 2 categories, Highlight and eBay Picture Services.”
Something we were promised BEFORE any of this was ever revealed.

“We've also added an Automaton Studio to allow you to group batches of operations together. Imagine clicking a single button to send emails, change the sales status, and leave feedbacks on a batch of sales all at the same time.”
Finally, something worth talking about, but definitely not worth an extra $200 a year.

Obviously it appears that we’re not getting too much bang for our $191.88. And for a program that is buggy and has a strong tendency to crash, and eat system resources. For a program that, when we purchased it, was supposed to be implemented on other auction sites (a strong selling point for us in the first place). We even picked up the megasets when we bought the program (what a waste of cash THOSE were). We have problems with this program blanking out buyer email addresses when we Refresh Current Auction Data, the FTP image uploader is unstable as hell, frequently timing out, whereas WS_FTP and CuteFTP have no trouble at all (so it ain’t our server or host). We can’t post Negative or Neutral feedback from the program. We can’t file NPB’s from the program, or file for FVF’s from the program. Something that we were told was coming was adding comments in the Sale Memo field to the packing lists. This was never done.

I understand charging for upgrades, IF they are sufficient enough to be practically a whole new version. That isn’t what this appears to be. This reeks of eBay grabbing for more cash. They have raised our listing fees, without any apparent benefit to us. Add to this the increase in USPS shipping rates, UPS shipping rates, and now this? How are we supposed to be making money? I don’t feel like lining YOUR pockets with the money I work hard for.

We spend between $900 and $1500 a month on eBay fees. We spent over $200 on AAPro. We’ll be damned if we spend another dime on this program for eBay. They get enough of our money. Sure, we can continue to just use 1.27 Beta 39 uninterrupted, but how long will it be before eBay institues another change to their site that renders it useless? 2 months? 3?

So, we get a free year of use of this new system, and free upgrades for a year. That’s exactly how long we will be doing business with eBay and Blackthorne then. We aren’t going to be nickel and dimed to death. Unless eBay and Blackthorne get their acts together, and cease their quest to take as much money from me as possible before I bleed to death, then I will no longer support these ventures, and will recommend to anyone that they not use either.

By John Slocum (jslocum) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 01:55 pm:

For the record, AA Pro Version 1.26 is the current released version. That is the version that you have all paid for. Version 1.27 is currently in beta and is downloadable by anyone who has paid for Version 1.26.

The new version when released will be the latest beta of the 1.27. So the major upgrade does not simply constitute the differences between 1.27 Beta and the released version, it constitutes the differences between 1.26 and the new version. The 1.26 version does not include the multiview, scheduled listings, batch listings, unattended listings, the Filter Studio, the improved email studio and many other new features.

I see a lot of people mentioning that the program never came out of beta, and that is incorrect. Version 1.26 was a full release that was out of beta. There will always be a released version and a beta version of the software. Those of you using 1.27 are using the current beta version.

John

By Rita Gallion (reet) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 05:15 pm:

ok Version 1.26 is what we have paid for. So is this BETA version 1.27 build 39 that you have supplied, freely on your website, is this what we will be paying Ebay $15.99 a month for?

By Jim Roberts (downmeltd) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 06:51 pm:

John, you've completely missed my point. Or ignored it. Whichever. My point is that I PAID for 1.26, and have upgraded through all of the 1.27 Betas. And 1.27 seemed to me to be a MAJOR upgrade over 1.26, implementing a lot of cool new features. yet we didn't have to pay for that.

My point is that the features you're advertising as being available in this new fee-based service of yours are ALREADY available to us, and why the hell should we PAY for what we already HAVE paid for, since 1.27 was a free upgrade to our purchased product, beta or not?

By John Slocum (jslocum) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 07:01 pm:

Jim,

You are missing my point. Beta 1.27 was not given to you for free. You were allowed to participate in the beta of that version. Microsoft gives away Windows versions to its beta testers until it is ready for release. Then they require beta testers to pay for the released version.

You are one of the users who had the advantage of trying the beta before it was released but that in no way implied any sort of ownership of it.

The alternative would be for me to develop code and not let anyone use it until it is finished. If that were the case all users would still be on version 1.26 and would not be able to try out the new unattended listings etc.

The upgrade is from 1.26 to 1.27 (Now numbered 2.0)

John

By Jim Roberts (downmeltd) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 07:13 pm:

Then why was 1.27 freely available to all, directly from the AAPro download page? If it was exclusive, to only beta testers, why could anyone who wanted it have it?

By John Slocum (jslocum) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 07:21 pm:

I tried not to discriminate over who received the beta (a practice which I will be forced to re-evaluate). I allowed any user who wanted to use it do so.

John

By Lee Berkovits (leesantiques) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 07:38 pm:

Jim Roberts,

You say that your Ebay fees are $900 - 1500 per month. I take it then that your income is $15,000 to $20,000 - maybe more on a good month.

You can't possibly be doing those numbers without AApro, or something like it. I've seen the others - they are not as good.

So you want to trash your income over $15.99 a month?? We are supposed to believe this? How do you intend to do maintain those numbers? I am asking out of curiosity, since I would like to make more while spending less myself.

I am not in favor of paying more - I never am (greedy, ain't I?) But somebody has to pay for the updates. It is going to be (one way or the other) the users.

I just hope that this means that Blackthorne gets to keep up with Ebay's changes and new features.

Lee

By Jim Roberts (downmeltd) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 07:48 pm:

I'm not going to quote what our income is here , but suffice it to say that when everything adds up, we make a living. But we're tired of eBay finding ways to take more and more from us. No, we couldn't be listing the quantity we are without AAPro. We love the program. But in NO way will be pay $200 more a year to use it, every year. There are other programs. There are other auction sites. We did very well using just mail order before there was an eBay. We're prepared to go back to that if necessary.

We would happily pay a nominal fee for a major upgrade. This isn't one. Look at the FAQ. See what's "new" here. You'll find it's practically nothing that hasn't been available in Beta for a while. And for this, they want another $200 a year? I don't think so.

Leaving Blackthorne and eBay won't trash our income. Hell, sales have been so far off since last summer anyway, it couldn't hurt much. And mail order has always been profitable.

You make it sound like $15.99 a month isn't much. But it adds up. And when people don't want to stick up for themselves, and let places like eBay jack fees, charge more and more, and generally dig as deeply into a person's pocket as possible.... well, if no one stands against them, by dfenying the money they so greedily want, then what are we but sheep? It's a matter of principle. They've already raised listing fees. They don't return listing fees when you get a deadbeat. They charge for reserves, for bold text, the list goes on. And now they want another $15.99 a month for those of us who use AAPro? I don't think so.

By Carole Reed (harmonycarol) on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 09:29 pm:

John,I just wanted you to know there are still some of us who are so happy with your software that we will gladly pay $4.95 per month for it. Before I started using Auction Assistant it took me so long to list an auction I was just about to give up. You know that is just about 17 cents per day. I have never had any problems with AA and I've been using it for about 18 months.---You know anything that is good is going to go up in price.Look at the price of gas--postal stamps--groceries--drugs-houses--Cars--You name it and sooner or later it will go up--ITS CALLED THE COST OF LIVING PRICE INCREASE--I am so thankful to live in a country like ours where we have the right to CHOOSE what we want to use. Some of these people who are foaming at the mouth should be grateful there are guys like you who can develop this great software and that we have the right to CHOOSE. oR BETTER STILL THEY SHOULD GO TO THE PHILLIPINES OR OTHER 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES AND SEE HOW THE AVERAGE PERRSON HAS TO LIVE. THAT MIGHT MAKE THEM GET THEIR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT. I am not an eBay power seller but I still make more profit than I did when I was renting 6 booths in an antique mall and when I owned my own shop for two years. No I don't mind the little charges by ebay because I can choose yes or no. eBay is the best thing to come along in a long time. In my opinion the people who are foaming at the mouth are not really mad about the cost. I think they are mad because they can't CONTROL the increase. Some people are control freaks--they can't stand not being in control of a situation. I think if any one of them were approached by ebay offering a large sum of money for something they had developed they would jump at the chance and never look back. I want to end this by saying Congratulations on your great software and your merge-or whatever--with ebay. I am looking forward to a long happy future with you both.Carole Reed

By Jim Roberts (downmeltd) on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 10:02 pm:

Carole,

The problem here isn't control. I think the software is great as well. The problem here is something you pointed out yourself. Our right to choose.

This is not simply a choice between using SA or not. If we choose not to use SA, our current versions of AA or AAPro will soon cease to function. This isn't what we paid for! We should be given the choice to upgrade or not, WITHOUT being faced with not being able to use what we paid for already.

By Carole Reed (harmonycarol) on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 10:48 pm:

Jim, I think you're wrong. There are certain things we can control and certain things we can't. We can't tell the U.S, Postal Service what to charge but we can choose whether we want to pay it or not. When you bought your computer did you get a guarentee that you would never have to spend any more money on it?--maybe update it or buy a new pc.---I don't think so. I think when this software was developed John and his crew had no idea that ebay was going to grow so fast. You know they have had to work very hard to keep it updated. But they have done that. Thank Goodness!! But you still have a choice. You can grow with ebay and blackthorn or you can choose not to update and try to find other software. Frankly I've been so pleased that I can't imagine being without it. It's like the icing on the cake for me. But I will have to admit that I feel the 14.98 monthly charge for AA Pro users is a little steep. I would think 8 or 9 dollars would be sufficent. I hope they will reconsider that charge. Carole Reed

By Jim Roberts (downmeltd) on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 11:15 pm:

Carole,

I understand your point, but do you realize that I still have a fully functional 486 system? It needed updating, yes, but I wasn't REQUIRED to update it or it would stop working! It still works as it is. AAPro won't. Yet I paid a lot of money for it with the assurance that it always would. I'm not asking for this "major upgrade" for free, but I expect the version I have to keep working, as I paid for and was assured it would.

By Kevin Hanit (barfan) on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 02:18 am:

Jim,

AA Pro will work even after your free year is up.

Kevin

By Jim Roberts (downmeltd) on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 12:53 pm:

Kevin,

Can that be guaranteed? John himself has already stated that it won't be updated, so as parts of eBay change, parts of our current versions will cease to work. This is what I'm referring to.

Jim