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Keding Conversation
Source - http://killdevilhill.com/z/yintellectuald/CottonMatherhall/shakespeare1.html
FIFO
Posted by Richard Keding on March 03, 19101 at 16:18:26:
Thanks for your recent message. Of course I remember you from the Fellowship. Do you have an ema il address so we can correspond?
Where exactly are you located now? Best to reply directly to this: address ([email protected]) rather than leave messages on the on the website...
Posted by Douglas... on March 05, 19101 at 09:52:36:
In Reply to:Richard Keding on March 03, 19101 at 16:18:26:
Thanks for your message. I have no way to send from the Public Library in Mobile, Alabama so I do not know how I can use your [email protected] address. I do not have a computer at home. I only have the Post Office Box I gave previously. We can discuss my site selection project, and the principles of organic architecture here on this site or the "Global Architecture" Forum.
I am glad to see you are doing well. I saw Richard Green's web site, too - we have a lot in common before and during our stay at Taliesin I see from his biographical sketch. I would appreciate your comments and questions regarding my site selection service. I am having a hard time getting this across but it is really very simple as solutions to complex problems always are. I am sure FLLW would appreciate it.
After leaving Taliesin I continued my training until I was qualified to take the State Architectural Board exam in Texas. This was fifteen years after entering Texas A&M as an Architectural student. A&M was Wright-friendly until 1957 when Ernest Langford retired and a Harvard (Gropius) man took over the department. I withdrew as soon as I felt the hostility to Wright and by the end of the year I was admitted to Taliesin after a 15-minute walk-in interview with FLLW who just happened to be on his way into the office. I was working for an architect in Phoenix at the time. It was most timely for me but some of the older apprentices as well as Olgivanna came to resent it. However, I now realize that I "found myself" and my destiny beginning at Taliesin.
I never registered since I became too involved in researching the problems of City and Regional Planning. An article in Life Magazine on December 24, 1965 reminded me of and made it imperative that I devote all my energy to solving that problem. That I have done, I am sure even if no one else is, yet. It remains a problem of salesmanship, I guess. I am glad to have your input.
Posted by Richard Keding on March 25, 19101 at 22:36:20:
Douglas...
First of all, its good to hear from someone from the winter of 1959. Taliesin was different then and has changed irrevocably since.
Posted by Douglas... on March 26, 19101 at 10:07:50:
I have been by West twice and East once since then. It looked "embalmed" to me.
Posted by Richard Keding
As to your comments:
"Do I see in your design traces in the plan view of the Llewellyn Wright House in Bethesda, MD"?
I hope not! If one is engaged in art or design, one should not be seen as using someone else's material. Definitely not the thing.
Having said all this I am the first to acknowledge its reliance on forms which certainly are found in Mr Wright's work. I am trying and hoping to find an expression of my own; it is an ongoing preoccupation.
Posted by Richard Keding on March 25, 19101 at 22:36:20:
In Reply to: No email. posted by Douglas... on March 05, 19101 at 09:52:36:
Douglas... First of all, its good to hear from someone from the winter of 1959. Taliesin was different then and has changed irrevocably since. As to your comments: Do I see in your design traces in the plan view of the "Llewellen Wright House" in Bethesda, MD? I hope not! If one is engaged in art or design, one should not be seen as using someone else's material. Definitely not the thing. That was always one of my favorites. Mine too. This house curves around the knoll, but the topography demanded that. Having said all this I am the first to acknowledge its reliance on forms which certainly are found in Mr Wright's work. I am trying and hoping to find an expression of my own; it is an ongoing preoccupation. Where exactly are you located now? Best to reply directly to this address ([email protected]) rather than leave messages on the website since I look at that about once a week. Hope this gets thru to you. Sent this about a week ago & it was returned.
Posted by Douglas...
Yes, I know what you mean. It is difficult to avoid copying something so perfect in design. I notice one of your guests requested a replica of a Wright design. I suppose that would be permissible as long as it is acknowledged as such. It is only when we copy something without giving credit that we plagiarize. It seems FLW had a problem with Gropius, et al over that. However, for instance I see traces of the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul in Wright�s design for the Milwaukee Greek Orthodox Church. When I met FLLW in Dec. 1958 he said, "do you want to be an Architect?" I said, "I want to learn the principles." He said, "of building?" I said, "yes." That is what we must do if we are to be original. But if we are true to the laws that regulate the distribution of form in nature there will always be an organic character that distinguishes all of our work. Thus the similarity. I have yet to find a contemporary architect who can compare to the excellence of a Wright design.
Posted by Richard Keding on March 25, 19101 at 23:13:51:
In Reply to: No email. posted by Douglas... on March 05, 19101 at 09:52:36:
Douglas...
You appear to be in Mobile Alabama? I missed that before. Hope you find these messages. I am not accustomed to this posting business. But will cope.
rak 3.25.01
Posted by Richard Keding on March 27, 19101 at 10:57:24:
In Reply to: Re: Favorite Things posted by Douglas... on March 26, 19101 at 10:07:50:
Douglas... Read your comments here on 3.27.01 and will return soon. I seem to be catching on to this message board routine. rak
Posted by Richard Keding on April 01, 19101 at 13:30:24:
Douglas....
I have not responded in depth because I find myself getting jammed for time - this month especially. Be assured I will look at your project in detail. There is never enough time.
Posted by Douglas...
I look forward to your comments and questions regarding the KYMAK proposal. This is the results of my research based on a thorough and detailed study of FLW's thesis, "The Living City" c. 1958, a new edition of "When Democracy Builds" c. 1945 and "The Disappearing City" c. 1932 which were about the Broadacre City Concept - Wright's ingenious expression of principles of Urban Design and Planning for this our New Republic which we now so lovingly call. "American Democracy". Has anyone else you know of concentrated on this problem?
Posted by Douglas... on April 09, 19101 at 09:03:15:
In Reply to: Quick Note posted by Richard Keding on April 01, 19101 at 13:30:24:
I am in Independence, Missouri, now - the point of beginning for the lay-out of the entire project. Here at the URL is a map and aerial survey of the area.
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=10&T=1&X=1 883&Y=21639&Z=15&W=0 Posted by Douglas...
Taliesin West link
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=16&T=2&X=32&Y=290&Z=12&W=2
Belated response: Posted by Richard Keding on June 11, 19101 at 14:02:36:
Douglas....
I did not completely understand your recent message. I think I did delete one of your postings on my guestbook. Probably because it included some comment about the resemblances between the house on my website and a FLlW house. This is a sensitive issue for me; I hear quite a lot of this. And I try to discourage it. Nothing personal I assure you.
I have not been able to access your web page. Let me know when
you pick up this message.
Richard
I see.:
Posted by Douglas... on June 19, 19101 at 12:25:38:
In Reply to: Belated response posted by Richard Keding on June 11, 19101 at 14:02:36:
You will find a link to my webpage listed in the index on this site or I will try to give you a link below. The URL is:
http://www.geocities.com/douglas36601/KYMAK.html
I have had people call my designs Wrightian. We see architects copy Greek and Roman and many other cultures and are taught to do that in school. I see no reason to fear copying Wright. As much as FLW despised the plagerism of the International School (Gropius, et al) who tried to fake his ideas while ignoring and violating his principals to "work as I think as I am, no work in fashion for sham ... nor serve vile gods of trade... etc." We all wear the same clothing designs, buy cars of the same design, etc. so I wonder why we could not reproduce some of the great designs of FLW for those who might want to enjoy the pleasure they afforded the original clients. I do not quite understand why you are so sensitive to this issue but I appreciate your raising the issue for discussion and thought.
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Index to posts
� Belated response - Richard Keding 14:02:36 6/11/101
o I see. - Douglas... 12:25:38 6/19/101
? Re:"work as I think as I am, no work in fashion for sham
... nor serve vile gods of trade... - Ralston Jones 09:55:14 4/08/102
? FLLW - Douglas... 13:05:36 4/15/102
? Re:"work as I think as I am, no work in fashion for sham
... nor serve vile gods of trade... - Douglas... 12:23:18 4/15/102
? Re:Work Song - KYMAK 13:29:22 10/22/103
� Introduction - KYMAK agent. 09:40:29 4/09/101
o Web page - KYMAK 14:16:17 4/26/101
? Re: Web page - KYMAK agent 14:22:10 5/04/101
? note - K 14:18:01 4/30/101
� QuickNote for Douglas Boyd - Richard Keding 13:30:24
4/01/101
o Hurry back. - KYMAK 09:37:53 4/26/101
o No hurry - Douglas... 09:03:15 4/09/101
� THEOPOLIS AMERICANA - KYMAK 10:51:31 3/27/101
o Original Post - KYMAK agent 09:37:44 4/09/101
� For Douglas Boyd - Richard Keding 16:18:26 3/03/101
o No email. - Douglas... 09:52:36 3/05/101
? Re: No email. - Richard Keding 23:13:51 3/25/101
? Favorite Things - Richard Keding 22:36:20 3/25/101
? Re: Favorite Things - Douglas... 10:07:50 3/26/101
? Catching on - Richard Keding 10:57:24 3/27/101
? Click on dot below. - Douglas... 13:19:26 4/10/101
? . - . 12:23:44 3/28/101
Posted by Douglas Boyd 12/3/2004 9:31:23 AM
If we copy natural objects it violates the maxim, �The only legitimate form of Art is the Abstract� so often quoted by FLW. This relates to one of the Ten Commandments of the Creator, Yahweh which proscribes making or using images of natural objects. Likewise the Propositions of Owen Jones in his Grammar of Ornament. If that is the basis of your reasoning you have a point, but then to be consistent we should extend that to every manmade thing we have or use.
"Let me admonish you, first of all, to go alone; to refuse the good mo dels, even those which are sacred in the imagination of men, and dare to love God without mediator or veil. Friends enough you shall find who will hold up to your emulation Wesleys and Oberlins, Saints and Prophets. Thank God for these good men, but say, `I also am a man.' Imitation cannot go above its mo del. The imitator dooms himself to hopeless mediocrity. The inventor did it, because it was natural to him, and so in him it has a charm. In the imitator, something else is natural, and he bereaves himself of his own beauty, to come short of another man's." Ralph Waldo Emerson 1838
But I am only advocating careful and honest reproductions such as is seen in other works of art; this is an opportunity for craftsmanship that was not fully realized in the originals. I think this would be far better than the mediocre designs of the imitators. It seems Wright intended that from the illustrations of his Broadacre City concept.
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