Who am I? And whats this large muscle flapping around in my mouth?

When did Irish people forget how to talk... hmm? Was it when those evil English people sailed across the water and polluted out beautiful tongue with "Hello" instead of "Dia Dhuit!" I don't know, personally I do not care. I think that English and Irish are simply modes of communication.

There are many modes of communication of course. Speaking is one, body language consists of most of our personal communication. We all know that a person may well say one thing but you know by their body language that they really mean another. So how come then people are so uptight about spoken language?

Is it because of the argument that our spoken language is our identity? Come on! If you wanna stand out then have some new thoughts, don't wear jeans, do something that says who you are. Then again, while i really do believe that people should be judged by their actions, i am fully aware that some people consider the spoken word a very strong action. Again, an argument comes around and bites itself in the ass... Oh well...

However...

There is one things that really makes me mad. In the job that i have i do alot of phone answering to both English people and Irish people. Now when you ask a typical English person over the phone simple for "their name" they will say something like Mr. Spring, or Mrs. Nightly or something. In other words they give their surname and in most cases you have to ask specifically for their actual first name or ask for their initial. And you know what, while i would prefer that they would give their First name followed by there Surname i do respect that that is just they way they do stuff across the water...

However, make way for the dim witted Irish person...

"Can I have your name please..."

"Murphy"

"!"

"?"

"So Murphy, can i have your surname please?"

"Murphy"

"Ok Murphy Murphy... how can i help you?"

"Peter!"

"Sorry?"

"My name is Peter Murphy"

"Ok, so... PETER, how can i help you?"

Whereas in fact, the way that i want to help him is to tell him that he does infact reside in Ireland, and might as well stick to our customs and traditions, namely, being able to get his own name correct!

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Barry Wrote in reply

Hi D, Only a small point on your latest rant, surely if you ask an ambiguous question like "whats your Name?" you are not asking for a specific name. Where i work we have to input customers details on the PC when they make a purchase over a certain amount. The system has a space for title, first initial, and surname, (take a male customer as an example) so i fill Mr in the title field,i then ask "what is the initial of your first name please, and then "what is your surname". I find that by asking very specific closed questions in this situation without leaving any room for error makes the whole process very simple. I could ask "whats your name" but have found (like you did) that it leads to more questions when the person does not give the info you want in the order that you want it. it works the same when questioning peoples needs for buying a PC. "What do you want a PC for?" tends to be too open and could lead to a life story where as a few more closed questions will give you the answers you need, "will it be used for the Internet?", or "will it be used for gaming?" following by a qualifying question like "so its for basic office use, is that right?" Means you give the person a chance to correct you if needs be. There are 2 types of question, closed and open, closed are used when you need a very specific answer such as yes or no, open means that the person must give more info, "how" is an open question for example. That's enough from me on that subject there is loads more on communication that i could go into but won't.

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Finbar Murray wrote in reply to me:

Right, here we go. You seem to be complaining about the way people tell you their name, but when you want a specific answer the best thing to do is give a specific question.

If you want their name for a specicfic purpose, & you wanr their first & last name, you could say "blah blah blah could I have your name please, surname then first name(s)" We all live in a multicultural society, & you must remember that in some countries (especially Asian) it is customary to give your surname first, then first names.

If you want to start a discussion about whether the English pretty much wiped out Irish or we would have done it ourselves, thats another story entirely. Its a little bit sad, but as Irish people its impossible to define our national identity without referring to how much it was sculpted by centuries of oppression & hardship.

Getting back to your Murphy example, I think he is sticking to Irish customs & traditions & that you are the one enforcing outside naming conventions on him. Traditionally we Irish have been named after our paternal ancestors, often tending to use 'Mc' or 'Mac' to denote son-of, much like our Scottish neighbours. As an O'Donnell (O' being an anglicisation of ua, grandson-of), you should already be familiar with this. The title 'Mr.' is very British, a derivation of the title 'Master', used to describe men of high rank (thanks Wikipedia!). So I say good on Murphy, more power to his elbow.

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Shane (The Shakespearian Ranter) Cowley wrote in reply to me

Esteemed Colleague,

I have read thrice your arguement to makesure I dont fly off on a rant only to end up agreeing with the point I'm arguing against. I thouroughly agree with your gripe against the use of language here. Of late my main irk is the neagative question. As I work at a lot of social events I end up in a lot of meaningless chit chatty conversations. Picture this:

Shane walks into function room with camera, scopes the scene spots his contact. As per usual the paper has been misinformed of the time of the event so Shane must wait by organiser as he rubs his hands together nervously making conversation so as Shane doesnt say screw this I've another job to get to later dude.

Mr.Committee Man "The Committee will be here soon in five minutes bear with me here blah blah"

Shane after politely nodding and checking his watch "Ok"

25 mins lapse Mr.Committee Man "Have you much on tonight no? Shanes blood temperature rises.

Mr Committee Man "You making much money no?", "You busy this weather no?"

Shane pulls out his stanley knife and decapitates this oaf who asks a question and answers it in the one go.

People who are worse for this are parents. Could someone please tell anyone who speaks like this that the word no is not a pronounced question mark its a negative, and typically bloody Irish.

Something else that of late has made my blood boil is the "You know what you should do?" As someone who recently started a business you should be all too aware of the you know what you should do line. Scene 2 involves Shane at a family get together

Shane "Howya doing yeah grand yourself blah"

Uncle/Aunt "Hows business?"

Shane "Alright improving not making the millions yet"

Uncle/Aunt "I saw this guy before making a fortune do know what you should do, get an ad into a local paper, you should get into those schools you could make a fortune, you should be doing weddings, you should bring along a set of props for a wedding photo, you should join the networking group etc etc"

Shane "You should set up your own fucking business seeing as you know the key to success know fuck off"

Particularly when things arent going well in the early days and youre struggling to meet loan repayments you dont need to be told about everything youre not doing or dont plan on doing. The situation could be so much different if these know it alls politely said

Know it all"Hows business? Have you ever considered doing the whole family photography I hear theres good money in it?"

It makes all the difference.

Finally my other hang up with our beautiful way with words is the friends factor. Half of dublin, and the midlands know speaks with a beverly hills bimbo accent or a mid nineties friends way of talking. Worse yet is the emphasising of the most irrelevant part of the sentence.

American Wannabe " Where is he, could he BE any later, HELLOO?"

TV has a lot to answer for, MTV has most of the younger generation slumping around with jeans hanging on their Knees. There is nothing worse than being in the middle of Drogheda, Castlebar, Galway or anywhere and seeing a young white geeky Irish kid saying "Whassup dawg" or "Dude where are ya Dude this or Dudette that"

To those I would politely say fuck off and move to the states youre sad and pathetic trying youre best to culture a mall rat skater kid culture . At least in the states the skaters and the stoners can actually pull of skateboard stunts rather than doing a half jump and falling off the kerb.

As you mentioned Donal Johnny Foreigner from England gave us a language which helps us enjoy movies without sub titles. Another irksome trait that her majestys loyal servants left on us is the D4 accent. Irish people that should have a plain accent ending sounding like someone doing a poor llyod grossman impersonation.

Anyone that fills any of the above criteria in my mind should be simply shot in public every sunday after mass. I could imagine coming out of mass and a friend of the parents saying "Howya Shane making money no?" Before I answer a Garda taps him on the shoulder and asks him to step aside where he receives a shot of lead in the head. The priest standing at the door shakes his head thinking " let that be a lesson to the rest of you".

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On the 13th March 06 Donal wrote in Reply to Barry, Finbar and Shane... guys that is brilliant. Barry with the manners, Finbar with the big picture, and Shane with the verbel ass kicking....

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