Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:34:15 PMHi Justin
Justin Circelli10/31/20018:34:22 PMHey, How you doing ?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:34:37 PMI am fine.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:34:43 PMHow abou t yourself?
Justin Circelli10/31/20018:35:16 PMVery good. So what time is our meeting tonight ? I thought it was at 8
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:35:41 PM9
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:35:50 PMabout half an hour later
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:36:08 PMdidnt you get the email?
Justin Circelli10/31/20018:36:24 PMNo. I haven't received any email in a while.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:38:09 PMDo you check your students email?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:38:24 PMThere is a distrimon alias which Rahul has created.
Justin Circelli10/31/20018:38:36 PMNo. Perhaps I should. I haven't logged in this semester.
Justin Circelli10/31/20018:38:57 PMThe web site has my hotmail address as a main contact.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:40:53 PMI see.
sadaf mumtaz10/31/20018:40:57 PMhi Naveed && Justin
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:41:01 PMYou should ask Rahul to change it.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:41:04 PMHi Sadaf.
Justin Circelli10/31/20018:41:13 PMHello
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20018:41:14 PMWe are waiting for people to join in .
sadaf mumtaz10/31/20018:41:37 PMok
Justin Circelli10/31/20018:59:30 PMwhat machine to we log into to check our uiuc mail ?
sadaf mumtaz10/31/20019:01:34 PMu can use webmail.uiuc.edu
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:03:07 PMthanks.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:04:52 PMHi Chandra.
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:05:08 PMHi Naveed.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:05:11 PMWe will wait for a few minutes and start discussing how to proceed with the project.
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:05:33 PMSounds good.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:06:18 PMhey guys
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:06:23 PMDo you think we can talk over the net.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:06:51 PMi think that will be difficult.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:07:09 PMalso we cant save the stuff we speak
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:07:32 PMso are you all happy with the roles you have?
sadaf mumtaz10/31/20019:08:21 PMI am not happy with my role
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:08:27 PMhay Rahul were you able to meet the TA this Sunday?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:08:32 PMsadaf i chaged yours
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:08:37 PMchanged i mean
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:08:43 PMyes naveed
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:08:45 PMI am happy with mine.
sadaf mumtaz10/31/20019:08:58 PMoh great ! so wat do I have now
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:09:17 PMsystem analyst / use case designer
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:09:25 PMmore design oriented role
sadaf mumtaz10/31/20019:09:47 PMthanks
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:09:52 PMso our aims for the project are twofold
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:10:01 PMI would like to know what you guys except from the Architecture role?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:10:11 PMfirst we have to decide architecture
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:10:25 PMchandra as the architect you are the technical lead on the project
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:10:37 PMwhich means you do the high level design
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:11:32 PMonce we decide the architecture we have code the basic infrastructure, finish the critical/high risk use cases
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:12:26 PMchandra does that sound reasonable?
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:12:52 PMsound reasonable.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:12:59 PMhi justin
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:13:07 PMHello, I must have got disconnected
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:13:13 PMDid you guys see the use case diagram & high level infrastucture diagrams?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:13:29 PMi will post the chat i had with chris (our TA) later tonight
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:13:42 PMchandra saw the use case diagram
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:14:00 PMdid u put up an infrastructure diagram as well?
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:14:21 PMYes, very very high level.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:14:50 PMok just saw it
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:15:14 PMHay Rahul what was the feedback from the TA
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:15:16 PMI saw it as well
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:15:16 PMIt's under Elaboration, Usecase diagram is with all use cases.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:15:17 PMAr we on track
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:15:19 PMwhat we need is a clear translation between the conceptual diagram we had before and this infrastructure document
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:15:26 PMbehind schedule?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:15:37 PMnaveed yes. he said that we should e-mail him once a week just top keep in touch
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:15:41 PMnot really
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:15:54 PMYes I am working on the conceptual diagram.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:16:08 PMas i said before we need an architecture and some basic framework code
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:16:14 PMthats it for this semester
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:16:26 PMall the associated artifacts of course
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:16:43 PMdid you guys get my e-mail from this afternoon about the use cases?
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:16:56 PMI didn't
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:17:12 PMsorry justin i sent it 5-ish so u may not have gotten it
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:17:15 PMcan you please clarify about the arifacts. And got the mail.
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:17:50 PMI've had a huge mix up with all mail the past month, I should recieve any new incoming email.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:18:00 PMok basically we will have to produce some artifacts for each phase. if you look at the link on our website it gives some examples
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:18:18 PMi will put up a list tonight as part of the project plan
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:18:38 PMjustin go to our Yahoo Groups website all opur e-mail is archived there
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:20:11 PMso as i said in the e-mail the use cases look good in general. we will have to formalize the actors a bit and polish the use cases up.
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:20:13 PMIn my understanding conceptual diagram could be a high level class or a component diagram. Do you guys agree?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:20:27 PMi agree
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:21:00 PMchandra u should take a look at the use cases and figure out how each of them would fit into your proposed architecture
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:21:19 PMestablishing that link is the key for the current phase
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:21:28 PMwhat does the architecture include?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:21:39 PMsomethings like platform
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:21:50 PMtechnologies invovled etc?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:21:52 PMarchitecture has a copuple of different levels
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:22:05 PMfirst a conceptual idea of what modules will make up the system
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:22:25 PMthen we can decide on specific technologies to implement that conceptual design
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:22:49 PMthe next iteration we can actually do some coding and implement some parts of the system
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:22:57 PMI will try to take a cut at it by Friday and send you a note.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:23:16 PMsounds good chandra
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:23:24 PMWhat should I work on ?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:24:15 PMjustin (and all others who submitted use cases), you guys will have to both clean them up a bit and then elaborate on them
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:24:31 PMin inception, we just have a very vague idea of what each action performed is
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:24:33 PMSuggestion on use cases: Can we refine use cases so that login in not repeated in all the uses cases, instead mentioned under precondition.
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:24:38 PMOnce we do this, will they be considered finished ?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:24:57 PMyes
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:25:28 PMonce the use cases are detailed enough that each action roughly corresponds to a particular software function, we are done
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:25:40 PMSo should we keep the existing ones, and created new versions of them, so we can show progress ? Or just updated the existing ones and retain one copy of each ?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:25:59 PMWhat are the things to be done in the elaboration fase?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:26:06 PMwe now have a directory for inception
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:26:21 PMany new work will go ina new directory called elaboration I
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:26:31 PMUse case elaboration, architecture, Object model ?
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:26:34 PMHigh Architecture model
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:26:48 PMnaveed the first two at least
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:26:58 PMonbject model can wait until the next phase
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:27:06 PMnext iteration i mean
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:27:10 PMI see.
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:27:22 PMAnd elaboration on use cases using the architecture.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:27:32 PMthis iteration ends on next friday according to the schedule
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:27:40 PMok
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:27:56 PMwe then have three weeks for the next iteration (elaboration II)
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:28:03 PMCan you give a rough idea what the architecture document mifght have.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:28:07 PMi left one week at the end for clean up
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:28:12 PMI am a little vague about it.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:28:29 PMwe start wuth the vision diagram
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:28:48 PMthen we try to map each part of the diagram to specific software modules
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:29:06 PMat this point they are still conceptual
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:29:09 PMi.e. database. web server, browser etc ?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:29:15 PMwe then decide how to implement them
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:29:20 PMArchitecture model will have high level components partioned across different layers with appopriate technology/platform picked.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:29:39 PMvision -> coneptual -> implementation -> technology
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:29:58 PMimplmentation means database, web server, etc
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:30:26 PMdoes that make sense?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:30:37 PMthen what are high level compnents?
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:30:43 PMQuestion is are we following the UML style modeling?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:30:58 PMchandra YES. its a requirement for this course
sadaf mumtaz10/31/20019:31:31 PMI think component diagram should be part of Architecture document
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:31:41 PMnaveed high-level components are a "logical" breakup into modules of the system
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:31:45 PMHigh level components can one or more classes.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:32:16 PMeach component might performa single function, e.g. security
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:32:38 PManother example would be "communication with employer application/website"
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:32:53 PMwhich might be an interface
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:33:35 PMAt a high level we could have UI, Business logic, and Data components, including security.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:33:43 PMexactly
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:34:13 PMonce we have the components identified, we can discuss how to "make" them
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:34:41 PMthe finished architecture/design document is essentially a recipe for building the system
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:34:58 PMthe use cases link that recipe to the initial requirements
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:35:31 PMI am planning to use microsoft technolgies like XML, ASP, IIS, SQL . Does this sound good?
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:36:01 PMsounds good to me
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:36:08 PMi won't be doing much development
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:36:12 PMyou guys decide
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:36:40 PMnaveed look at the rational example for a sample architecture diocument
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:36:54 PMPlatform assumption: work stations targeted NT/95, Broser assumptions: IE 5.x or above?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:37:38 PMi am looking at that
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:37:47 PMi think we should keep things simple, and not depend on IE exclusive stuff
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:37:57 PMin the beginning its all the high level stuff
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:37:58 PMagreed.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:38:21 PMbut when you go down it goes into discussing some detailed stuff
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:38:31 PMby the way, i would be very careful about taking a completely microsoft centric approach
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:38:55 PMnaveed, thats because that is the finished document at the end of all elaboartion
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:39:14 PMas i was saying, we are doing this for an academic audience
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:39:30 PMgenerally not very microsoft-friendly
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:39:43 PMI know it is high level stuff, however, if we know need to make some assumption what platforms and browser are we targetting at some point.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:40:07 PMthey are talking about some design patterns etc.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:40:23 PMwe can use MS technology, but our software should be generally cross-playform, and certainly cross-browser
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:40:27 PMWe could put in stuff about MVC in our web architecture.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:41:02 PMchandra, people from all over the world will use the system (or so we hope). we cannot target IE/Windows alone
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:41:35 PMI agree that the design shoud be language/technology neutral. However, implementation would be specific.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:42:32 PMchandra, i actually meant implementation. all the code we write should be viewable in netscape. you would be surprised how many large corporations still use netscape 4.7x
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:42:44 PMat least i was
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:43:23 PMbut we can get naveed to decide that since he is the customer :)
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:43:25 PMhay guys, if we are to implement this for next semester, at least i want to, we should target it for java
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:43:45 PMso we might have some hosting service avaible at a chepa price.
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:43:46 PMThe back end will be specific, but the front end will have to work with ie/netscape.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:44:02 PMjustin thats what i meant
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:44:20 PMnaveed, hoiw much java?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:44:34 PMmeaning?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:44:36 PMJ2EE or just JSP/servlets?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:44:42 PMjsp/servlets.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:44:48 PMok sounds good
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:45:10 PMThen part of the requirements we have specify what are the targetted platforms ( IE & Netscape ).
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:45:57 PManyway, i don't think we need to worry about that just yet guys. get the high level design first, we may have requirements that limit us to a certain technology
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:46:17 PMchandra i think that is a given
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:46:54 PMas far as possible, we should use straight up HTML, which may be dynamically generated by ASP/JSP or whatever else
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:47:29 PMi kind of have a different view to this
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:47:46 PMyes naveed?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:47:47 PMbecause deciding on platform might well be in the earlier stages.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:47:54 PMin risk analysis etc.
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:48:31 PMFYI, I am not a pro-microsoft, just coming from the microsoft PDC, XML is really getting a big boost.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:48:34 PMwell we can identify technological risks early
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:48:58 PMbut decisions are best left till after high level design
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:49:16 PMchandra i hope to use XML, just not with .NET :)
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:49:38 PMI agree with rahul. we can look at this later.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:49:48 PMWhat I understand from elaboration is that after this we are ready for development.
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:50:03 PMThese issues need to be ready before the construction phase.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:50:08 PMnaveed correct. after the second iteration.
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:50:09 PMGiven the time frame we really need to decide how many usecases we could fully elaborate?.
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:50:17 PMCan we confirm our assignments before the deadline so everyone is clear on what they are supposed to work on ?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:50:31 PMchandra we have to elaborate all the use cases, even if we do not code anything
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:50:51 PMthe Nov 10th deadline that is
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:51:22 PMjustin i think chandra will work on architecture, while the rest of us clean up our use cases
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:51:49 PMcan you guys wait until tomorrow, i'll update the web page with specific assignments?
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:51:52 PMOk. Rahul, I did not see a link on our site for archived email.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:52:14 PMjustin, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/distrimon/
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:52:51 PMRahul, I meant architecture, components, class/object diagram, as part of elaboration phase.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:52:57 PMsorry that is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/distrimon/
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:53:12 PMone more try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/distrimon/
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:53:23 PMchandra that is correct
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:53:46 PMarchitecture and components in this iteration, class diagram and technological decisions in the next one
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:53:52 PMThanks.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:54:06 PMthe next iteration is 3 weeks and the longest one
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:54:49 PMchandra is that okay with you?
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:55:11 PMSounds ok.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:55:13 PMu have 5 weeks for the whole architecture dosument, and i expect that you will be discussing design with the use case designers
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:55:37 PMthat would be sadaf and rob, if i remember correctly
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:56:34 PMokay guys anything else?
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:56:55 PMDoes anyone still need a partner for HW 5 ?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:57:00 PMplease check the website tomorrow, i will update the management stream documents
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:57:22 PMchandra u still want to work together on homeworks?
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:57:22 PMsounds good guys
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:57:28 PMgot to go know
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:57:34 PMbye naveed
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:57:42 PMYes I do need a partner, Rahul
Naveed Ahmad10/31/20019:57:44 PMby
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:57:54 PMok chandra, we can do this one together
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:58:10 PMSounds good. Bye guys.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:58:20 PMnaveed u still there?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:58:32 PMcould you save the chat for us? thanks!
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:58:33 PMRahul, can we do the 3 of us in hw ?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:59:21 PMjustin can u confirm with the TA? i think they allow it if we have an odd number of people
Justin Circelli10/31/20019:59:30 PMWe do have 7 correct ?
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:59:50 PMyes i just checked the page. one group of 3 is allowed
Chandra Shekara10/31/20019:59:55 PMSound good to me guys.
Rahul Karnik10/31/20019:59:55 PMchandra u ok with that?
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:00:00 PMcool
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:00:09 PMwhen can we meet to talk about homework
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:00:21 PMis the weekend too late?
sadaf mumtaz10/31/200110:00:34 PMgot to go now
Chandra Shekara10/31/200110:00:35 PMlet's try Sunday night at 8CST?
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:00:36 PMHow about saturday moring/early afternoon ?
sadaf mumtaz10/31/200110:00:44 PMbye
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:00:47 PMSunday night is fine here.
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:00:49 PMbye sadaf
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:00:52 PMbye sadaf
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:00:56 PMsunday night it is
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:01:00 PM9 EST
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:01:10 PM"affirmative" :)
Chandra Shekara10/31/200110:01:19 PMSounds good.
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:01:22 PMWhere will we connect if Naveeds machine is not up ?
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:01:23 PMc u guys then
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:01:32 PMdo you guys have ICQ/AIM?
Chandra Shekara10/31/200110:01:41 PMI don't
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:01:42 PMor yahoo or MSN?
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:01:48 PMMSN and ICQ here
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:01:55 PMcan also get AIM easily
Chandra Shekara10/31/200110:02:09 PMCan we do 3-way call instead.
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:02:45 PMare you there chandra ?
Chandra Shekara10/31/200110:02:52 PMUnless we have a way to connect.
Chandra Shekara10/31/200110:03:16 PMyes!
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:03:21 PMDo have the option of using any of the apps that rahul mentioned ?
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:03:29 PMok i'm back
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:03:36 PMchandra?
Chandra Shekara10/31/200110:03:47 PMI am here!
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:03:51 PMMSN is ok?
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:03:57 PMFine here.
Chandra Shekara10/31/200110:04:19 PMMSN is ok with me aswell.
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:04:31 PMok i'll e-mail you guys my nickname or whateva later this week
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:04:38 PMsee you guys then?
Justin Circelli10/31/200110:04:44 PMsame here, Bye
Chandra Shekara10/31/200110:04:50 PMBye !
Rahul Karnik10/31/200110:04:50 PMbye
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