Sing the Sorrow Theories: From the AFI Message Boards!
Sickness Undefined Said:
OK, here is some long reading....
....and this isn't even all of it.
Ok, before this album came out, they released a 10" disk, and called it "336". No one could figure out why, and it was a bit of a secret. All they would really tell us was that when Sing the Sorrow came out, it would all be made clear. Well, they dropped some hints in the meantime. One time while upgrading the messageboard, they left links to astrology, numerology, and the ummm.... I think the chinese zodiac? Another time, a hint was dropped... they said that "336" wasn't really important.. it was just "what comes before." It came before Sing the Sorrow. Meaning that STS was "337." And we really had to figure out what 337 meant.
Also, there were the rabbits. They had posters and stuff with rabbits on them. And other weird mentions of rabbits. In the liner notes from STS, it says, "Rabbits are roadkill."
So Sing the Sorrow came out, and no one could figure it out. Then their short film, "Clandestine" came out. It had the cd, the dvd short film, and a 60 page little hardcover book, which was like a big colored version of the cd booklet. Thw whole style is of faded, worn pages. The pages are old and stained... brownish stains.. But as you flip through the book, you begin to realize that some of the stains and smudges are actually red. All of the stains are actually blood, and dried blood.
(I haven't seen the film in a long time, so I might have a few details wrong.) Now, in the film, it starts with Hunter holding a box with the Sing the Sorrow logo on it, running through the forest. He looks at a paper, and keeps running. The paper gets dropped, and you see that it says Room 37 at 3:33. He runs into a classroom full of kids. The board says, "nothing from nowhere." Then you see Adam playing cards. The box is on the table (in the pot), along with a watch, keys, a magnifying glass, a bottle of dark fluid, a white chrysanthemum, and a live rabbit. Adam has 336 in his hand. He wins, takes the box, and goes to leave, but the box falls apart in his hands. You see that two of the guys at the table have actually smuggled away the real box. It flashes to Dave in a cafe. He is writing in a book (the book that comes with Clandestine... it's like the cd booklet, but better), with the box on the table. A strange woman comes up and kisses him, stealing the box. She leaves, and he goes back to writing. He notices the box is gone, and leaves. It flashes to Jade walking into the classroom, (the board says "I am no one at all.") and through another door in the class, which leads him into a house. You see him snooping through the house. Going upstairs, going through drawers, looking behind dressers, etc. He goes into the bathroom, and the tub is filled with a black fluid. He reaches in, and pulls out the box. You see a hand at the door of the bathroom (maybe the hand of the woman from the cafe?), trying to open it. They unlock the door (with the keys from the card table?) Jade jumps into the tub, going down, down into the water. He comes walking out of the water on a beach. He walks across the sand to a small table where all the members sit waiting. He places the box on the table, and they open it. End of film. You never see what is or isn't inside. Throughout the movie, it flashes the clock, which, for every person's scene, is on 3:33, and at the very end, I believe it's 3:37.
Now, I have friends that spent forever figuring this out, and I helped some. They looked up esoteric astrology, chinese astrolgy, and numerolgy, among other things. Clandestine means something secret or hidden. Esoteric also means hidden.
"Miseria Cantare" is Latin for "Sing the Sorrow."
3 x 37 = 111. I'm not positive, but I hear that 777 represents god, or perfection. In Transference, Dave wrote, "I'm 111 less than perfection." 777 - 111 = 666. Dun dun DUUUUNNN. (P.S., NO, they are in no way devil worshippers. Just for your info.) Also, Three denotes divine perfection; Seven denotes spiritual perfection.
In esoteric astrology, 336 represents physical death, and the events leading up to it. There were only 2 songs on the 336 disk. Some of the lyrics of one of the songs say, "We're all now in dying days.... I gave up fighting. I've come to be these halos."
337 represents the act of reincarnation.
This is important: In chinese astrology, Dave is a RABBIT. He was born the year of the rabbit. RABBITS CANNOT BE REINCARNATED. Rabbits are on their last life in this world, and do not have another chance.
In numerology, Dave's life path number is 3. In some middle eastern philosophy, they say that there are 37 deeds you must do before you can reach nirvana, or peace/heaven, and be done on the wheel of life.
The whole cd goes in a circle. The sounds at the end are backwards. They end in the same beat and same key as the beginning of the cd. It's one continuous loop. The music before This Time Imperfect is the same played forward as it is played backward.
The front of the album has the symbol of falling leaves. Falling leaves represent death, and returning to the earth. The back of the album has a symbol of water. Water represents rebirth. All of the art for this album has been circles. Another symbol of something repeating, of reincarnation. Also, at the beginning of the film, Hunter is running through the forest (leaves), and at the end, they're on the beach (water). The black fluid in the bathtub relates to "Bleed Black." The chrysanthemum on the card table relates to "The Great Disappointment." It's all crazy.
Basically, the whole theme is death and reincarnation, and the fact that he CANNOT reincarnate again.
Look at the song lyrics. Although each song as a whole isn't about this, there are specific lines that corroborate this theory. Example: "Discarnate." "Nothing from nowhere, I'm no one at all." Discarnate means being bodiless. Like floating in time and space. Essentially, being... nowhere. Nothing.
There are other questions as well, like why are the leaving songs out of order? Well, since the cd is one big circle, we don't believe that it actually begins with Misera Cantare. At the end of Clandestine, there is breathing. Just like at the beginning of Bleed Black. I believe that the album BEGINS with Bleed Black. That would put the song as beginning after Clandestine. There was a theory that the box at the end was just empty. (I forget why.) Well, the first words are, "I am exploring the inside. I find it desolate."
So, if it starts with Bleed Black, the breathing at the beginning could represent life. (Being born, perhaps?) That would put the song whose lyrics say, "recreate me," and more importantly, "I know I died that night, and I'll never be brough back to life once again." So, playing that as the first song, and going full circle around the cd, that puts the leaving songs into order, and ends the cd with The Leaving Song Pt II.
Now, some people think that Dave "dies" over the course of this cd. Some say that the "death" (if there is one) occurs during This Time Imperfect. That would make sense that Miseria Cantare would be the beginning... from nowhere. Bodiless... Then comes The Leaving Song Pt II, whose very first lyrics say, "Don't waste your touch, you won't feel anything." The spanish in the song says, ""Yo he estado aqu� muchas veces antes y regreso" ("I have been here many times before and I return"); "Y regreso aqu� otra vez y comenzo" ("So I return here once again and I begin"). Like being reborn. The circle of birth and death and rebirth. "I saw its birth. I watched it grow...."
Also the fact that the poem is read as in the 3 stages of life. Like he is aging through it.
So yeah, it's pretty creepy.
That's most of it. There are other small things, like, "Rabbits are roadkill," and then there's the sound of a vehicle accelerating through the rain at the beginning of Silver and Cold. There is also a very small, very blacked out picture of what looks to be a truck or something (maybe the vehicle?) in the book. All sorts of details.
This is only ONE theory, and I probably missed some of it. Some people say that the cd starts at Silver and Cold.
There are many more details, observations, and theories. If someone would care to spend the time to look up all of the details, and post some of those, to make this much shorter than 65 pages, that'd be awesome.
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In Sickness Undefined's 2nd part of his/her theory it states this:
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Here's one by mrdrs filigree:
A Concept Album...possibly
Outline of thoughts~~
Bleed Black:
"If you listen, listen close...beat by beat, you can hear when the heart stops."
Strangely the word "you" in the last line of the lyrics is in cursive.
also "i saved the pieces when it broke "and" ground them all to dust"
"and" is also in cursive.....
.....let's skip to but home is nowhere
"Every day another small piece can't be found. I lay strewn accross the floor, can't solve this puzzle. The pieces are lost, these pieces don't fit. Pieced together incomplete and empty."
So, someone along the lines, the lead or "killer" get's lost, confused, and breaks down. In but home is nowhere, it seems he is trying to put himself back together, trying to figure out what he did wrong, regretting previous actions. Then in Bleed black, he speaks of how he didn't "lose" the pieces, he destroyed them, he destroyed himself, he commited "suicide(not exactly literal)"
Now, from the leaving song pt.II:
"I left it to die. I took the life. "
then...in bleed black:
"I died that night and i'll never be brought back to life. "
Is it possible that The Leaving Song and Bleed black are sung by two different people...figuritevly speaking.
One the killer, the other the killed. COuld this apply to the whole album?
WHEN REFERING TO THE "KILLER" AND THE "KILLED", I am just sepaking of two different voices, not necessarily an actual murderor or victim in the regular sense, but possibly of a higher train of thought...ya know....it could be about running over a rabbit.
Silver and Cold
As I stated in another thread it seems that it is about someone, who is obsessed, letting go, because they have been hurt, and undertand it is better to let them go out of love. If you love someone enough, you would rather lose them so they can be happy. Could the "voice" in silver and cold be the killer, obsessed of losing his love.
Next, we come to dancing through sunday:
The pain that follows the loss of a loved one ensues, and the "killer" takes the deep end. "swooning, i am swept away, swept off my feet" It seems as if the voice in this song, in a dilerious furry, is somehow harming the love he lost, possibly he is so obsessed that he cannot let go of his love and would kill her rather than let her go. "no chance in this horrid misery"
Silver and Cold and Dance in misery could be two opposite ends of one spectrum...one, is being able to let go for the happiness of a loved one, the other is obsession.
And onwards!!! to girls not grey:
Possibly the "killed" and what is becoming of her. Going to heaven maybe "whitest lace just begs to be imbrued" heaven is drawing the "killed".
"what follows has lead me to this place where I belong, with all erased."
Then a line possibly Refering to the next track, Death Of Seasons, "what follows has lead me to this place where I belong, with all erased." obviously a lead into DOS.
Death Of Seasons:
The "killer" feels remorse for what he has done "of late, it's harder just to go outside......." or the "killed" is expressing it's hatred of the killer. In Girls not Grey its emphazises the Stars fading..."watch the stars go out tonite" then in death of sesons "just watch the stars tonite as they fade away" more possible however, is that the SCREAMED lyrics are the "killer" and the CALM lyrics are the "killed" or vice versa. most likely the screamed are the "killed"
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!! listen to the first second or two of the next track.
the beating stops......you hear breaths, and then no more.....death has hit.
The Great Dissapointment
the "killer" remembers the past, all that had once been, but when he tries to return to it, it is not there. "i can remember"
the "killer" would try so hard to bring back his love but can not "i'd shut my eyes to see........I knew they would appear....SAW NOT A SINGLE ONE"
tHE "KILLER REGREETED HIS ACTIONS, HIS HOPE WAS NOW GONE, HIS FAITH DILUDED."I NEVER, NEVER WANTED THIS" "inside a crumbling effigy." his memories are fading...his expectations gone.
(sorry 'bout the caps...must of hit caps lock)
PAPER AIRPLANES:
THE "KILLED"'s emotions are explained.
while in a higher plain of existence"gaza, lie and smirk in time"
"YOUR ARROGANCE WILL SUIT YOU " reffering to the "killer"'s remorse.
laughing at the "killer''s predicament "you'll never find a soul inside.....no life, but nothing's died....no light, BUT QUITE THE SHOW!!"
the "killed" haunts the "killer" "dancing on your grave" "i'll see you falling, I'd stop it. Had you a heart"
This Celluloid Dream
the "killed" begins to regret her actions in "silver and cold"
"you're so exquisite....oh if i could remain, but it's just a visit."
BEGS TO RETURN!"i begged'may i cut in' but they never stopped playing"
and...to prepare for the Leaving song
"all the colors upon LEAVING will turn grey"
Leaving Song:
The "killer" realizes he must give up, so walks away from it all.
"poison hearts will never change. Walk away again"
"heard them say" the "killer" is speaking to himself
"all the cracks will lead right to me" relaizes everything he has done will catch up to him..."all the cracks will crawl right though me..."no matter what he does, he cannot escape his past.
His remorse of what he has done, his inner torment...leads him o suicide.
"turned away in disgrace. Felt the chill upon my face cooling from within.
Death.
...BUT HOME IS NOWHERE:
sTORY OF THE "KILER'S LIFE"
TO ADD TO THE SUICIDE IDEA......."i lay strewn accross the floor pieced up in sorrow.
I HAVE ANOTHER IDEA FOR ...BUT HOME IS NOWHERE, BUT IT WOULDN'T TIE INTO MY THEME...SO NEVER MIND!
anywho...
the "spoken" track, is the meeting of the two in the afterlife
adding onto the idea of "silver and cold", when i stated that the "killed" tries to escape the "killers" grasp...........
"i asked if you would accompany me, but you made me realize that my ticket wasn't good for too.
Miseria Cantare
"Nothing from nowhere. I'm no one at all"
Being dead. You are nothing...you are no where...just consciousness...for awhile anyway....
"recognise one silent call as we all form one darkflame"
a single consciousness. Which is derived from the gaia theory, that when we die we return to the earth, and form one being.
The Leaving SOng Part II:
The "killed" speaks
"Don't waste your touch, you won't feel anything."
"were you sent to save me?"
The "killed" is in pain and hates for what has happened to her, she doen't find herself worthy any longer.
"I've thought too much, you won't find anything worth redeeming"
Refer to Paper Airplanes; "i'D STOP IT. Had you a heart"
The "killed" offers herself "reach out and you may take my heart away."
The "killed" is delighted to have helped out the "killer"
"Look what I've built. It shines so beautifully."
But then, remembers the past...........the pain......
"Now watch as it destroys me."
THE "KILLED" SPEAKING: "I saw it's birth. I watched it grow. I felt it change me. I took the life. I ate it slow. Now it consumes me."
to quote ice-everlasting 'equals love and the affects on those therein'. Exactly.
Is it possible that the bitterness of it all will start again. The great empathy that the "killed" and "killer" have for eachother brings them back down...but begins the cycle all over again.
now quoting Rolling Stones "It's all about to begin again for the poor guy."
anyone with any thoughts on Davey's referance to C.S. Lewis in Death Of Seasons?
"Post-human existence excels unrecognized"
an idea from C.S. Lewis' Humanistic Theory.
Refering to C.S. Lewis's Humanistic theory....
Belief that we will become more or less than human without ever knowing, but upon discovery, will be too late.
also from the humanistic theory:
We are not just a bunch of impulses and insticts, we are not just a tangle of influences and environment. We are not what our surroundings make us. We are living, breathing, hurting, loving, thinking, and most importantly CHOOSING beings, with individualaty and morality. To take away these things would be to deny humanity...would de-personalize what being a person is. we ALL make the choice of right and wrong, good and bad, yes and no. We CHOOSE our actions, and we cannot blame them on our racial, ethnic, or family backround. we cannot blame our choices on our past, present or future, nor poverty or luxery, nor ability or un. we are who we choose to be, and nothing more.
That is what AFi means to me. Afi is the Humanistic Theory in lyrical form.
Then FaII ChiIdren said this:
In Leaving Song Pt 2 when davey sings:
"Look what I've built. It shines so beautifully."
But then, remembers the past...........the pain......
"Now watch as it destroys me."
You said this would be the killer remembering the past, but mixed in with it would be the killed because after "Look what I've built" and "It shines so beautifully" are female vocals. I can't make out what they are after "Look what I've built" but after "It shines so beautifully" it sounds like she says something along the lines of "Why won't you look at me?"
Everyone has read the Mark6to8 Compilation theories, and most have a somewhat "understanding" of it all. AFI left us a message, and I think it has a very literal meaning.
Verse 337 in the Dhammapada states:
"This is what I say to you - Good luck be with you, gathered here. Dig up the root of craving, as one does a weed for its fragrant root. Don't let Mara destroy you again and again, like a stream does its reeds. "
Now this verse, by itself doesn't really get us any further than we were before. We have to take a step beyond scholarly examination and seek to make an application of this message to ourselves in our present condition. To do this requires that we use our intelligence, imagination and intuition to see THROUGH the limiting cultural contexts out of which we were born, and to see INTO those universal features of the human condition to which the inner human being was formed.
So what does the 337th verse mean...well.
Instead of expressing a wish that the listeners of AFI, or possibly AFI themselves, meet with wealth, fame, status, or other worldly forms of good fortune, this verse describes the highest good fortune, which can be accomplished only through one's own skill: the uprooting of craving and the resulting state of total freedom from the round of death and rebirth.
Basically, I believe that AFI is saying to us, that this is our only chance with life........our one chance, so concentrate on the "true" things, not materials.
Also important to note is verse 339, which explain's Gavin's statement of how 36 comes before 37.
"When the thirty six pleasure-bound streams of craving are strong in a man, then numerous desire-based thoughts pull the deluded man along"
So, if the man is pulled too much, and into the 37th craving...he is lost, and forced to do it over again. Now, whithin the Dhamma, it states that there are three forms of desire for each of the internal and external sense spheres it is hard to explain what these are...so look it up if you want)
3 x 2 x 6 = 36. So, the three forms of desire are desires focused on the present, past, and future. They are craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, and craving for no-becoming.
No-becoming!!!... I am nothing from nowhere....I am nothing at all.
Also very important are verse 352
"Rid of craving and without clinging, an expert in the study of texts, and understanding the right sequence of the words, he may indeed be called "In his last body", "Great in wisdom" and a "Great man". "
What does this mean?...Astute in expression, knowing the combination of sounds -- which comes first & which after?
I believe this refers to total mastery of linguistic expression, and in the actual text the word "arahant" is used. In the verse "in his last body" Because an arahant will not be reborn, this present body is his/her last.
THIS TIME IMPERFECT(very important)
Now, the secret track...this time imperfect. The main goal in Life is to achieve perfection, in the Dhamma, perfection is total freedom, and you last life on earth. This Time Imperfect is telling us that maybe, just maybe, this wasn't the perfect album, or that the band isn't perfect or that "if their is actually a storyline in the album" that the main characters life is not yet perfected...and so...will be forced to do it all over again.
Okay...now for the mysterious symbols....
I have taken ideas from the Chapter of craving.
Disintegrating
The world has created super-human beings, celebrities, movie stars, sports heroes, scientists and artists. It has also embarked on an age of communication super-highways. Yet we are surrounded by a culture of violence. The concept of family, the fabric of any society, is gradually disintegrating. This may well be regarded as a western phenomenon. As if to counter one ill-effect with another, East is gathering momentum around religious fundamentalism. Among all these, we have a classic juxtaposition of evil affecting across the board while the good is swept under the carpet. Disentigrating.
Flowing
Once again, 339 and 330
"He whose 36 streams,
flowing to what is appealing, are strong:
the currents -- resolves based on passion --
carry him, of base views, away.
They flow every which way, the streams,
but the sprouted creeper stays
in place.
Now, seeing that the creeper's arisen,
cut through its root
with discernment. "
Perfecting(according to the dhamma)
Think of good human qualities . By perfecting them, one crosses the ocean of misery, and craving and reaches the stage of full liberation, full enlightment.
Misery...oh we dance in misery...misery...?....crossing the ocean of misery?
Protecting
Regarding the subject of protection, the Dhamma states: "I shall protect myself and I shall protect others: Protecting oneself one protects others; Protecting others one protects oneself".
A quotation from the Dhammapada states:
"By self alone is evil done.
By self one is defiled;
By self evil is left undone,
By self alone is one purified."
If a being is in pain we should develop the understanding of compassion or friendliness.
Reaping
When the unexpected happens, and we meet with difficulties, failures, and misfortune, we must realise that we are reaping what we have sown, and we are wiping off a past debt. Instead of resigning ourselves, leaving everything to "fate", we must make a strenuous effort to pull the weeds and sow useful seeds in their place, for the future is in our own hands.
Singing
Verse 146
"Why is there laughter? Why is there joy although (the world) is always burning? Shrouded in darkness why not seek the light?"
Now, in the story that goes along with this, 500 women were tricked into singing sins, and so Budha said verse 146.
Soaring
According to the Dhamma, reincarnation, the trials and hardships of achieving perfection are like climbing a mountain by going round and round, slowly, laboriously, step by step, for hundreds of years(AFI's long, long, career), and then realizing, all you have to do is spread your invisible wings and soar straight to the summit.
So, in conclusion.....this has nothing to do with Daveys last life, the whole album, the 336/337 mystery, it is all a signal that this is not over, that they are not perfect, and they will continue until perfection is achieved.....when they can be complete.
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And More
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The Great Disapointment deals allot with searching for flowers...the amaranth...the flower that is not really their. Here is what the dhamm says about flowers...
Who shall conquer this world
And the world of death with all its gods?
Who shall discover
The shining way of dharma?
You shall, even as the man
Who seeks flowers
Finds the most beautiful,
The rarest.
Understand that the body
Is merely the foam of a wave,
The shadow of a shadow.
Snap the flower arrows of desire
And then, unseen,
Escape the king of death.
And travel on.
Death overtakes the man
Who gathers flowers
When with distracted mind and thirsty senses
He searches vainly for happiness
In the pleasures of the world.
Death fetches him away
As a flood carries off a sleeping village.
Death overcomes him
When with distracted mind and thirsty senses
He gathers flowers.
He will never have his fill
Of the pleasures of the world.
Until next he travels.
Also, in THis Time Imperfect, There will be no flowers gracing the lines.....HAHA...ya...think about it.
Silver and Cold, unquestionably one of the best songs on the album. The Dhamma's theoies on Imperfection deal with silver, and use it as a metephor for purification
You are as the yellow leaf.
The messengers of death are at hand.
You will not be born
And you will not die.
As a silversmith sifts dust from silver,
Remove your own impurities
Little by little.
Or as iron is corroded by rust
Your own mischief will consume you.
As a tree, even though it has been cut down, is firm so long as its root is safe, and grows again, thus, unless the feeders of thirst are destroyed, the pain (of life) will return again and again.
I find this text rather interesting. It is on the The 37 Practices of a Bodhisattva, and how to properly attain perfection.
http://www.simhas.org/teaching30.html
My favourite verses:
11. All suffering comes from the wish for your own happiness.
Perfect Buddhas are born from the thought to help others.
Therefore exchange your own happiness
For the suffering of others -- This is the practice of Bodhisattvas.
12. Even if someone out of strong desire
Steals all of your wealth or has it stolen,
Dedicate to him your body, your possessions
And your virtue, past, present and future -- This is the practice of Bodhisattvas.
13. Even if someone tries to cut off your head
When you have not done the slightest thing wrong,
Out of compassion take all his misdeeds
Upon yourself -- This is the practice of Bodhisattvas.
Sounds as if from silver and cold..."Your sins Into me".....
Oh ya..../ "How Many?" "Seven" "Seven out with the gypsiness"
We are now in the second week of the second Moon of Challenge of the Seventh Year of Prophecy. This is the year of climax
of the World Thirteen Moon Calendar Change Peace Movement. It is the year during which the Second Christian Millennium
reaches its denouement, officially baptized as the Y2K crisis. When it was first revealed to me that this cycle was the Seven
Years of Prophecy, all I had in hand was the Dreamspell and the Thirteen Moon Calendar, as well as a few texts, Thirteen
Moons in Motion and The Treatise on Time Viewed from its own Dimension (The Call of Pacal Votan). Then came the
Telektonon, the Earth Spirit Speaking Tube. The voice and vision of Pacal Votan was now using me as its instrument, and along
with my companion, Bolon Ik, we initiated the first of the Seven Years of Prophecy by becoming galactic gypsies and returning
to the seat of the prophecy, Palenque. That was almost exactly six years ago in the early Moons of the Magnetic Seed Year,
Kin 144.
That is from the Volum Volta, probably not any significance...just interesting is all.
I've had some extra time on my hands, and so, was able to go to the public library and look over some dhammapada analytical papers. I checked one of them out, as it is VERY important to this theory. Here is the main stories, in italics are my thoughts.
The Raven: Bringer of Lightraven, this may explain the upside down-raven skecth on the bleed black page of the sts le, and the raven backdrop used at some concerts
Raven came to the world, which was filled with cold and darkness. The people living there knew nothing but blackness and cold. Raven took pity on the people and told them he would search for the light. He flew far and wide over the earth, but everywhere he saw only darkness. One day he caught sight of a flicker of light in the distance. He flew quickly, following the dim glow. The light became brighter and brighter until he saw it shining forth from the door of a house by a large lake: the home of Sky Chief and his young daughter. This chief had a great treasure: a box "which contained an infinite number of boxes each nestled in a box slightly larger than itself until finally there was a box so small all it could contain was all the light in the universe." clandestine box?
Raven hid in a large hemlock tree nearbyafter a search of hemlock trees on google, i found this picture of a poison hemlock bulb http://www.holoweb.com/cannon/images/Conium.gif ..look familiar?, and waited and watched. One day Sky Chief's daughter walked down to the edge of the water for a drink. Raven changed himself into a hemlock needle and floated into the water near the girl's feet. When she drank again, she swallowed the needle.
A few months later she gave birth to a baby boy, with dark black hair and small black eyes. Raven had been reborn.reincaration...cyclical? Sky Chief was entranced by the child. He would often invite the village elders to watch the child play and crawl around his house. But Raven wasn't just playing: he was looking for the source of the light. searching for the box in clandestine
One day the baby found a large, colorfully painted box in a corner. When he cried for it, his grandfather gave it to him. When he still cried, his grandfather removed its lid. Day after day he kept removing lids until finally light flooded the room. The source of the light was a small, blazing ball.the fire inside
After much begging, Sky Chief finally let the boy hold the ball. To his amazement, the boy changed into a raven, took the shining ball in his beak, and flew out of the smokehole at the top of the lodge. Raven was overjoyed! But Eagle saw him in the light and gave chase. In a panic Raven "swerved to escape the savage outstretched claws, and in doing so he dropped a good half of the light he was carrying. It fell to the rocky ground below and there broke into piecesmany lyrics refer to breaking pieces-- one large piece and too many small ones to count. They bounced back into the sky and remain there even today as the moon and the stars that glorify the night.the use of stars within the lyrics would suggest that the narrator searching for the pieces...that he broke...the stars
----> So, the raven had to be "reborn, reincarnated" before he could unleash the fire inside the box. The box was filled boxes, each inside the other, and each had to be opened before the next, could this refer to AFI's constant change in style and sound or refering to all of the albums that have led up to sts...could this be a sign that AFI's fire inside is just now, with the creation of sts and recreation of their sound, finally released.
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AND MORE!
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Some more stuff:
The lotus, it is a very symbolic image. It's flower was used on the cover of the Girls Not Grey Single, and is on the Silver and Cold Page of the STS LE. The 336 Picture disk contained the track, Now The World...okee!
Verse 336 of the Dhammapada
But whosoever overcomes in this world, this shameful craving, which is difficult to suppress, finds his sorrows fall from him, as drops of water from a lotus leaf.
Yep....
Now, what else does a Lotus refer too? Alchemy of course! You may wonder what in the world could Alchemy hae to with sts?..well, look at this. Remind you of any 337 icon?...it should.
also, the upsidedown octopus mystery...........The octopus moves by the means of central propulsion, with the limbs following. This pulsation from the center out through the limbs and back again symbolizes the many in the one, and the one in the many. think...
I beleive my mentioning of Daveys last life was due to the fact that at the time this thread was started, the basis of most STS theories was that he was a Rabbit, and it was his last life. But in fact, the whole dragon/rabbit/ox/rat thing based on years is more of a cultural thing in the eastern world, kindof like how we celebrate the zodiac, it has no real basis. So I was disqualifying that theory.
However, the reason why a Rabbit is said to be in his.her last life is because their is a connection between Rabbits and verses explaining how to pertain perfection. And perfection IS the only way to live ones last live, and to live ones last life is a GOOD thing, because only then will you escape the sorrow and misery that is life.
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In refrence to the DVD
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Prelude:
Clandestine is about the story of AFI band. Clandestine means: "Doing in secret". AFI was a long time underground music...They were larva (From Dork until Proud of ya). Something bulk (The inside was composing only with Adam and Davey), breathing only to learn how to survive. In fact, in this period they had nothing to do...only to wait the metamorphose (the chrysalides). The chrysalis�s period became when Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Eyes arrived. From this time they knew that something great will happen. The larva start changing it self. Now he got two wings in formation (Hunter and Jade). With the time, they turn in something beautiful. Black sail on the sunset...Halloween EP...Art of drowning. They build them self a new kind never saw before. All this in a closed area (Nitro record that cover in fact only North America). The hatching became when they change label. The butterfly was now open to the world. Looking like a perfect kind this time. "Now the world" has two significations for me:
- The song of this boy who died on a night summer (This song became a f**king great drug for me after O2 :] )
And the primal meaning:
- AFI will infest the world...
Well that was a bulk explanation. I didn't tell about AFI left school for music (Kids do not try to do this at home...until you got a guitar ;]),etc...
The movie:
Let's try to see it in chronologic order:
- First the opening:
(0:00-0:28) Woods moving by it self for the presentation. In fact at the 24 second you can see woods going one on another. The meaning is:
- Building the box (AFI band construction). The movie it's about the AFI formation until today.
- Part 1 (Hunter story)
(0:29-0:49) A class room with 18 student and 1 teacher...nothing happening (what means the nothing on the board in the 43's second). It's boring, no one have is word, and no one has a style. The box is on the table. Meaning that AFI form it self in college. They were looking for something different and searching for a style. The classroom, the students and the teacher are all in white and uniform. AFI was a blackbox on the outside where everybody can see and boiling to be something on the inside
(0:50-0:52) The clock. 3:31...That need an explanation:
3:31 it's a code. The better way it's to put it like this 331 (remember Now the world vinyl? 336)
331: Answer That and Stay Fashionable
332: Very Proud of Ya
333: Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Eyes
334: Black Sails in the Sunset
335: The Art of Drowning
336: Now the world
337: Sing The Sorrow
In fact, at this time (college) they was doing answer that and stay fashionable
(0:53-0:57) The box...AFI still stay close to they ideology. No changing...as the world (class)
(0:58-1:14) Hunter running into the wood with a sheet. Hunter get lots of troubles on is way (Getting out of "The Force" band?)
(1:15) The classroom...nothing has changed. AFI still close although everybody pression (The teacher and the students fix them and waiting for something)
(1:16-1:22) Hunter still running
(1:23) The class. Still nothing changed
(1:24-1:27) Looking through Hunter eyes
(1:28-1:29) Still the pression from the students
(1:30-1:31) Looking through Hunter eyes again
(1:32-1:34) All most 3:33. They finished "Very proud of ya". But almost started "Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Eyes".
(1:35-1:38) Hunter running and suddenly stopped
(1:39) Students...and still pression
(1:40-1:44) Hunter looking his watch and run again. He lost the paper. But he cannot return to take it back. He knows it by heart. On the paper he has an appointment. 3:33pm - Room 37 - Today.
Meanings:
333 "Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Eyes"
Room 37 that's my 1% of not sure. 2 suggestions: Hunter live 37 miles from AFI or 3-7= -4. For a band with 4 persons (The minus is for "not conform". It won't be a boy band or s**t like this. A different thing and not use to it.). Well maybe I'm going too far and it only means Room 37 :]
Today...well means what it means. :] Hunter was called in the last minute for conclude the "Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Eyes" album because there where no more bassist in the band (Some of you know the story...so post it for those who doesn't. It will be too long to tell it here).
(1:45-1:48) Hunter running and going into the bushes
(1:49) The box it still here
(1:50-1:53) Hunter exit the bushes and arrive in front of the room 37.
(1:54-2:08) Hunter is in the classroom. Everybody turn to him. Hunter don't say a word (everybody neither) and run direction the table take the AFI box with him and run away with it.
(2:09-2:14) Clouds in the sky running...end of part 1 (Hunter Story)
Part 2 (Davey story)
(2:15-2:24) A waiter in a kitchen restaurant putting coffee in a mug and take it away.
(2:25-2:35) The waiter exits the kitchen and enters the restaurant. He goes forward a table with a man in black writing down. He serves the coffee to the man. The man doesn't move his head...he's writing something important.
(2:36-2:39) Zoom on the man in black. It's Davey. He writes in a little book with a lot of motivation. He got the same box that Hunter took from the class.
(2:40-3:03) Zoom on the box. Davey stop writing and drink some coffee. Then he turns back to work. Suddenly a girl in a grey man suit sits next to him. She fixes him.
(3:04-3:06) She approaches Davey. Davey look at her.
(Warning: Some of the people will be shocked [the girls in fact] from what I will tell after that...so if your fragile...don't read further...pass to the next chapter ;]).
The girl kiss Davey
(3:07-3:11) Zoom on the kiss...and she stopped.
(3:12-3:13) View on the clock. Almost 3:33
(3:14-3:23) She make him a smile. Than left off. Davey don't know what's happened...He think some seconds...than go back to work.
(3:24-3:35) Davey look at the box. It was gone...The girl took it away. Davey run after her.
Meaning: Almost 3:33 means that scene is during the building of "Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Eyes". Davey wrote a lot and he wanted this AFI to be. But someone (Who he trust well), maybe not a girl cause she was wearing a suit, set him up (Maybe he has something to do with the bassist and hunter story [have a look on the "Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Eyes" cover, you will know what I mean]). So that story happened before the Hunter story.
(3:36-3:38) clouds
End of Part 2
Part 3 (Adam story)
(3:39-4:19) 5 men around a table playing poker (Adam is playing also). There are all very serious. They bet keys, a rabbit, an onion clock, a white rose, a foil (bottle), a lens and the AFI box in the middle of the table. Adam bet a kind of Tackimeter. Everybody look the table and the men are showing the cards. One doesn't because he's down. When the other finished. Adam shows his cards
(4:20-4:22) Zoom on Adam's cards: 3, 3, 3, 7 (not entirely) and 6 (cutes by the camera) Meaning
333: "Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Eyes"
(4:23-4:33) Everybody look down and at Adam. Finally Adam left off the chair.
(4:34-4:50) Adam move everypiece that cover the box and took it leaving everything. Except the box of course. Everybody was washing they self...Look like a conspiracy.
(4:51-4:56) Adam look at the box. He was breaking by it self.
(4:57-5:00) The 4 men left the table and go away. One of him kept the real AFI box with him.
Meaning: Adam was maybe in conflict with 4 people who want his place or not him to leave the group. But Adam wins. By jealousy, those people brake up his dream.
Morality: You want to be f**ked up by someone? Get your self some friends...there are there for this (AFI member a more than a friends but unfortunately there isn't any true word for this...so we call this a kind of family)
(5:01-5:03) Clouds
End of Part 3
Part 4 (Jade Story)
(5:04-5:12) The classroom (same as the beginning). Students are bored but still there. At 5:08 you can see the teacher waiting. The message on board change. "I'm no one at all" you can read. Means that AFI move...but school people are still in the sheep movement. And nothing has change...Still at school...and still nothing in they life.
(5:13-5:24) Jade enter the class the same way as Hunter...But no one make attention. He pass over the class like a ghost and open a door next to the board. Means maybe that for Jade...School was just a waist of time.
(5:25-5:39) He's now in a room and he's looking for something. At the same moment a person is going up stairs, where jade is find. Jade go faster.
(5:40-6:06) Clouds (Clouds means the time is running in fact). Then Jade searching. The person show key in his hand. Arrive at the door of the room where Jade is but the door is locked. He try the keys that he got in hand
(6:07- 6:38) Jade go to the bathroom. The bath is full of black water. Jade put his heads in find the AFI Box. But att this moment the door open. The stranger enters the room. Jade look at bath and jump in. Next you can see that the bath look like a pool when you are in the water. The enter the bathroom...and see the bath full of water. Jade is in the water and look at the box. Clouds are running. The bath begin to empty it self. The stranger waits beside. But there were no more water as Jade evanescence.
Meaning: Jade like to do something else than school wish was boring and monotone. He look everywhere to do something else. But nothing. But he took the risk.
He when to a last resort (the bath) wish was obscure future (AFI Box is an obscure project)...But he took the risk. The stranger maybe another stuff...But I don't know what. Army? School?...
End of part 4
Part 5 and final (AFI reborn from his ashes)
(6:39-6:48) The beach. The sea. Wave of the water...
(6:49-6:53) A man with the AFI box is walking on the beach...We don't see his head for the moment.
(6:54-6:55) The classroom. All the students stand up...But still bored and no sound...no action...They are nothing at all...and they still student after all that time...a box with something in it is on the teacher table.
(6:56-6:57) A table on the beach with 3 peoples on a chair around...It's AFI. Jade arrive with the AFI Box
(6:58) The classroom...still nothing...
(6:59-7:02) Jade put the box on the table and the others stand up.
(7:03) You see the sheet of Hunter floating on the water.
(7:04) Jade sit down. The other up...In another plan.
(7:05) The clock on 3:33...Wish is the point of departure of the Phoenix AFI.
(7:06-7:12) Jade open the box. Everybody look in it. He open the box and then...The End
Meaning: The beach means nature. AFI moved a lot. The students still stay in they classroom. Mechanical...AFI get's an ambition to be different and to make they dream come true (The whole movie is in fact a dream!). It was hard but they became what they want...and that the moral of the story...
If you got an ambition...don't f**k up everything for the other...Because it's not the other who will pay the broken glass...
And don't leave school without ambition...it's not because AFI did it that you will be like them...They had a plan...and they took the risk...
For the containing of the box...well...If you didn't understand it...We are in that box...because it's simply the present and AFI era that we are living now...
The box symbolizes afi's progress as they form one dark flame, in terms of a band...
When hunter grabs the box, the box is just...there...overlooked by everyone else, this is the start, this is afi in their early stages...
Then the box is stolen from davey...AFI is being exposed...suddenly afi is getting some exposure in the underground, and davey chases to make sure that its the right kind of publicity they want...
Then the box falls apart, AFI breaks up, and geoff and mark leave permanently...the box INCINERATES...so to speak...
Then the band is salvaged again, as its long and lost, it is dug back up and revived, and saved so no one can prevent the world from seeing what afi has become...
Then, when the box is opened, the screen is blackened out...the dark flame has enveloped all, so dark we cant see anything, basically, AFI has reached a great size from what they formerly were, and their exposed fully to the public...
i could be wrong, but this is what i think is the only logical explanation...the box just sits there, no one cares, like when afi was just starting... then its stolen, afi gets some of their first MAJOR fanbase, then it falls apart, the members go to college and put afi on hold, then its rejoined, the members quit college to work on afi full time, then mark and geoff leave... then its opened..., afi is exposed to the world
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Note's from Dan: I think we all must say that this album is more complicated than what we first though, these theories prove it!
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I cannot be held responsible for misspellings, incorrect grammar, etc. in this document. All I did was put it into HTML form.
