Re: [DE] What is SUSTAINABLE? clarification

**  First, putting the phrase back into context.
**  Second, my specific comment/justification.
**  Third, my general comment, about broad knowledge, and humour.

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First:

[At 13:25 13/06/99 +1200, David wrote: ]
>> ..There's an assumption, by adherents to most beliefs, that you
>>just have to present 'the benighted' with reasons to believe, in a
>>sufficiently persuasive manner, and they will naturally come around to your
>>way of thinking.
>>
>>**  ... I think Deep Ecologists should face up to the unlikelihood that 
>>the 'ordinary man in the street' will see deep ecology, or 
>>voluntary simplicity, or islam or christianity or whatever, as ...
>>
After Eric Storm's comment at 10:17 13/06/99 -0700, 
David reacted:
>2) Persuasion itself would _not_ get me to change my mind on some things.
>Some of us are very resistant to advertising and other psychology-based
>'persuasions'. And 'us' includes skeptical savages in darkest Africa.
>3) So the 'assumption' by the belief-adherents is incorrect. 
And Eric correctly responded, at 22:29 13/06/99 -0700:
I didn't assume that the goal was to convince _everybody_.  I agree that it
is highly unlikely.  It may still be worth the effort if a sufficient
number of people could be convinced, sufficient to make large scale change
a reality. 

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Second:

**  I was referring to the missionary-like view of belief-adherents, and
with the phrase: "just have to present 'the benighted' with reasons to
believe" was putting the reference-time as the first half of this century,
when missionaries did have the view of Africans I quoted. I know: I was
living then, and listening to returned missionaries.
**  My friends in the Physics Departments of the universities in Accra,
Ghana, and Zaria, Nigeria (where I was a lecturer for two years altogether)
would smile at my reminding them of the stupid opinions of missionaries
coming out from European-based countries, in the past.
**  I was standing alongside the more admirable people anywhere in the
world, with my: "Some of us are very resistant to advertising and other
psychology-based 'persuasions'. And 'us' includes skeptical ...", the
remainder of the phrase intended to be humorous. As you can see, I accept
that trying for humour by e-mail in this way doesn't work.

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Third:

**  I recognise that Bruce's reaction is not only respectable, but also
represents the opinions of the majority of people, in trying to foster the
use of inclusive language. On this list that includes not only humans. I
agree, and recognise that more and more people (with the possible exception
of those focussed on "the bottom line" - as narrow-minded as missionaries)
are becoming aware of the situation and what living is like in other parts
of the world.

**  Part of the reason I used the objected-to phrase is that I was trying
to point out that laughing at the so-limited opinions of the past is common
around the world, including in Africa.

**  As someone who has spent some of the more effective and valued (by
others) parts of his life in third-world countries (including India), I see
myself as bringing a breath of real life into the 'drawing-room
discussions' common on earnest lists like this. An attempt to open the
gates of the ghetto, a little.

**  However, (i) I've pushed too hard, (ii) I could have been wrong, and
(iii) I know I have a swelled head.


David.
(David MacClement) mailto:d1v9d@bigfoot.com 
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/3142/Pg1-AD11.html#top
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