[pf] Fw. hydrogen for energy storage

· These three letters point towards part of a positive future, IMO. _Very_
closely related is {methane) Natural Gas stored (at high pressure): CNG.   D.

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/awea-wind-home/message/6689
  is:
Message 6689 of 6703
 From:  Kevin Bedell 
 Date:  Thu Jan 10, 2002  3:47 pm
 Subject:  Hydrogen

 I know this is a wind-oriented list, but there has been some discussion of
hydrogen given the recent announcement, and the issue of excess-energy
storage.

 Here's a link to a long-range study by Shell that goes into some detail
about prospects for a hydrogen-based economy. The study looks out 50 years. 

 Interestingly (given that we were just discussing it), the study
identifies storage of wind (and solar) energy as one of the primary
critical factors that must be addressed. They felt that the ability (or
inability) to efficiently store energy generated by wind may become a
limiting factor in its success. IMO, this should be a primary area of
research right now...

 In the long-run, they posit that utilization of a variety of energy
sources (including wind) to generate hydrogen (which can then be stored or
transported) may become the primary way the world creates fuel.

 Here's the link:

http://www.shell.com/files/media-en/scenarios.pdf {323 kB}

 Kevin

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/awea-wind-home/message/6697
  is:
Message 6697 of 6703
 From:  Ken Lawton 
 Date:  Fri Jan 11, 2002  3:32 am
 Subject:  Re: [a-w-h] Hydrogen

 Just wondering about the useable energy yield comaparing the following:

 Using windmill generated electricity, be it excess or not,

 - to heat building space by resistive coil element.

 VS

 - using the electricity to produce hydrogen by electrolysis and then
burning it in a furnace of reasonable efficiency to heat space.

 Does anybody have the numbers handy to calculate the above?

 I realize a modern fuel cell may be more efficient than electrolysis but
also more costly.
 Burning it as produced or soon after may negate or reduce storage costs.

 Ken

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/awea-wind-home/message/6700
  is:
Message 6700 of 6703
 From:  Michael Klemen http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/klemen 
 Date:  Fri Jan 11, 2002  5:20 am
 Subject:  Re: [a-w-h] Hydrogen

 Ken,

 I found a hydrogen generator via a web search that actually had electrical
specs. It seems most of them are lab quality > 99.999% hydrogen. I'm not
sure that quality would be necessary for heating a house or driving a car.
The unit I looked at cost $5700. Given 4 amps at 110V, it produces
330cc/min. That's 440 Watts of input. The energy in the hydrogen it
produces would be about 65 watts.
  I imagine that the 4 amp input may be a peak input and maybe not
continuous input, but I don't know for sure. They had several models all
rated with 4 amp input, with different outputs. Perhaps the power supply is
just a 4 amp supply. It is also possible that the AC supply is converted
into DC and there may be significant losses there that we might be able to
get around in small RE [Renewable Energy] systems.

 Personally, I wouldn't care if I lost energy putting it into hydrogen. It
would be stored energy, and I could use it when and where I want it. Spring
and fall are the best wind seasons. All spring and summer and fall, I could
electrolyze the water with wind and PV and burn it to heat the house all
winter long. That would be great. The biggest obstacle for me is the
storage system. I don't know how to pull that one off.

 I know that's not much, but maybe it's a start. It is certainly not a lost
cause. They could probably be made more efficient today if electrical
efficiency mattered.
 In a lab, what matters most is the convenience of not having bottled H2. I
don't think they care how much energy it uses.

 Give me 5 years or a bunch of money. :) I would have done it already if I
had the money. It makes perfect sense to me, though.

 Sincerely,
 Mike Klemen

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