[pf] some discussion of young people's access to alcohol and cannabis.

**  Here's a recent post in a discussion of young people's access to
alcohol and cannabis, which backs up my opinion that we now can look
favourably at and perhaps should try to emulate some aspects of the 1950s
in New Zealand (& elsewhere). We haven't _necessarily_ been progressing as
the years go by, in the way "You're telling us we should go backwards!"
strongly implies. 
**  In 1959 and later in Ontario, the law said you're not allowed to have
beer with your picnic in the park (i.e. drinking in a public place).

**  I'm not saying it was uniformly better then, I /am/ saying we did some
things right then that we have not been doing right in recent decades.

**  PF list people: please ask me to send you your personal copy of earlier
e-mails if you're interested.  D.

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Subject: [GV]cannabis comment

At 16:23 16/7/2000 +1200, Bruce Thorpe wrote:
> I am sure the liberalisation resulted in an increase in the amount of
> >underage drinking, the level of late night violence and drunkenness, 
> >and the social division of rich and poor in this country. 
> 
At 09:52 17/7/2000 +1200, Oliver Hoffmann wrote:
> Evidence please?  Data!

At 14:09 17/7/2000 +1200, Bruce Thorpe wrote:
Sorry Oliver, I have no studies and the general policing and social
attitudes toward public  drunkenness and domestic violence have so changed
over the  subsequent 45 years that the statistics would not give a clear
picture. I do have personal experience of life in inner-city Auckland
during the 60s and up to the mid 70s. Major social changes, including the
greater use of private transport and cycles of urban migration, would
distort any simple reference to figures, but I do know that access to
alcohol in the six-o'clock-closing days was much more limited and
definitely young people did not have regular, habitual access to alcohol.
For example I have clear memories of being asked to leave a public bar on a
Saturday afternoon when I was quietly listening to a rugby match in the
company of adults at the age of 19 years and 6 months on the grounds that I
was underage. 
I also know that the behaviour of drunks was strongly modified by the
presence of all ages and social groups being out on the public streets at 6
p.m. on a Friday night, as compared to the horrific booze barn brawls and
police confrontations which were definitely the norm in the '70s. 

> [B.T.]
> >But we also lost those wonderful cross-cultural impromptu parties which
> >marked the social and intellectual life of urban New Zealand at that
> >time. The eruption onto the streets clutching half dozens of quart beer
> >bottles, searching for a Chinese takeaway and the rumour of parties.
>
>[O.H.]
> I can only hope you're joking.
> 
[B.T.]
Just being light-hearted and giving some credit to a much, much more
egalitarian and classless society.
Bruce T.

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sent to the Pos Fut list by David.

(David MacClement) davd@ihug.co.nz 
http://www.emucities.com.au/member/davd/index.html#top
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