At 01:41  2003-12-13 +1300, I wrote {at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LessIsMore/message/12960 after signing-in }:

· This is about ownership-and-control compared to negotiation.

At 12:32  2003-12-12 -0000, Gary wrote:
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Diane: "so far our rules have held, with the clear understanding that 
once our daughter turns 18 she can make these choices herself."

Just curious, but when she turns 18 and is still living under your own roof, does she still have to follow **some** set of rules regarding what you consider appropriate behavior?  If so, what would be considered inappropriate dress or behavior AFTER 18 given that she were living at home? ...
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· Having had three offspring grow into their twenties (and now thirties, for two), staying under the same roof with me for at least 5 years after age 18, I have a comment.

· For some years _before_ 18, I think parental control should have been being relaxed, until at 17.5 (girls) to 19 (boys), there's little left; usually a form-of-words acceptable to both, spoken when the young-adult leaves to be away for evening hours, which comes down to:
  "If you're not back by X hour (e.g. 1.30 a.m.), we'll start worrying, and if you're not back 1.5 hours later, we'll start phoning hospitals and police about accidents".

· The whole process in parenting is to produce a person with good judgement
(this usually requires graduated experience), with the social skills and emotional ability to live _their_own_life_ with reasonable success. (Their _own_ criterion of success.)

· All other parental comments, e.g. about clothing, should be made in the frame-of-mind that one would use with a similar-aged friend (like: "Isn't that a bit daring?"). And leaving it at that, since you're now talking to a near-equal to yourself.

· These phrases: "still living under your own roof" "given that she was living at home" imply that the person _owning_ the accommodation _controls_
what all do there. At 10:15 2003-12-12 -0600, Diane wrote: "Our general rule
is that our control over our daughter is directly related to the percentage of our financial support she requires."
  This is more realistic IMO; the less she uses that you have to pay to supply, the less the control. Not: "If you want to keep living here, you'll do what I say!"

· For example, we now have more than one bedroom that isn't used by either of us in the older generation. We feel quite free to offer this accommodation, at _zero_ cost to them, to any friend we wish. With the consequent _zero_ control of them by us.
  There a few other _small_ costs; this morning, for example, my wife spent time buying some nice fruit and vegetables; she _likes_ providing good food
for her friend - no matter that this particular friend is her daughter. And
she'll be enabled to continue doing this after she's retired, since we in NZ provide for our oldsters (like myself) with a Universal Superannuation (taxed, so the rich get less of it).

· Anyway; gradually changing from a dependent relationship to one of equality is IMO the goal.

David.