> Hello,

>

> I was reading your point of view on RTs, and I agree

> and disagree.

> I have been playing Links for a short time, I came

> over from Golden Tee Golf where I was in the Top 20

> on Cases regularly. Gtg is all Rts.

>

> I don't use an edge to hit the ball, but after

> playing a few games, I learned to hit the ball dead

> straight every shot. Wasn't to hard, and not much

> different from Gtg. Because one can stop their

> backswing in Rts. I found that if you paused your

> backswing at whatever power need for the particular

> shot, you could slide the mouse(In my case, I use a

> TrackBall), from the right to the left and align

> those little swing arrows.

> Then simply push the mouse/ball straight and viola!

> a perfect hit.

>

> Now after 5 weeks of playing, I managed to beat half

> the Gig's I played, and some cocky guy named

> Black_Bones. And all have accused me of straight

> edging.

> At first I didn't have a clue what they were talking

> about, then when someone was kind enough to

> enlighten me. I asked them how does a guy Straight

> Edge with a Trackball? I use a 175 dollar Happs 4"

> trackball mounted right in the Top of my Desk.

> They always seemed to get quiet after that, but the

> fact is I resented their accusation.

> If someone is cheating, then that is on them and if

> they win, they have to live with the fact that they

> got to where ever they are w/ zero talent.

That's fine if the person who's cheating actually gives a damn, but most don't have a guilty conscience... More importantly, you are not considering the person being cheated against. My biggest gripe about playing against someone who cheats is that it's a waste of my time. When the window mode cheat was discovered in 2k1, I got into an argument with a tour director about suspending the tour until M$ came out with a patch, which they did shortly afterwards. They refused to suspend play because of fear people wouldn't come back. I thought that if I was gonna spend my time competing on the tours, I wouldn't want to waste it by spending it playing someone who might be cheating... There is just no fun in that, especially when there is no way of knowing if they are cheating or not.

 > But when honest players get put in that category

> with absolutely no proof, then it's just wrong.

There is no way to know when someone is being honest or edging. That's why I don't suggest anyone get into confrontations about it. If you think someone is cheating, say "gg" at the end of the match and then decide on your own if you want to play him or her again... I have NEVER called anyone a cheater but have been called a cheater many times. And you can ask around, my snap leaves MUCH to be desired... When my snap is on, I'm in cheater territory, when it's off, I'm on par with most people in the zone.

> I met a very nice guy who plays Elite. He lives real

> close to me and has come over and witnessed my

> cheating first hand. He too, thought he could tell

> if someone was Straight Edging, but when he watched

> my play sitting beside me, he was amazed. He

> admitted that had he not watched me play, he would

> have thought that I did too.

>

> My little brother's friend just started playing

> Links, he hit everything crooked w/ Rts. I gave him

> 5 minutes instruction on how to properly use Rts and

> he went from +29 on 9 holes of Rivendell to +4 in

> one game.

>

> I have found in just 5 short weeks of playing Links

> in a Club, that no Clicker will ever change their

> opinions on Rts. Because how can someone beat them

> after a few short weeks when they have been playing

> for years? They have to be cheating!

I wouldn't generalize it this much. I have seen people progress to being very good RTSers and PSers for that matter. But you have to consider the fact that there are people in the zone that freely admit that they RTEdge. So when someone plays an RTSer for the first time, how are they supposed to distinguish between the people who evolved their RTS swings and the RTEdgers. They can't...

> So, after getting accused on just about every game I

> played with Clickers(my resentment peeking). I was

> curious on how some people could hit a perfect snap

> every single shot. So then I find out about

> something called a "Swing Macro". And then suddenly

> it all came together. Wouldn't it be "Ironic" if the

> loudest whiners that Clicked, used this to cheat?

> How would you know if they did or didn't? If you

> asked them, would they not Deny it?

I've never heard of a "Swing Macro" but I don't doubt that something like this exists. I'm, a computer programmer and I know that if someone is motivated enough, they can crack anything. My gutt feeling is that it doesn't exist because I've seen people post in forums about M$ altering the timing on the swing meter slightly to foil attempts by people to automatically time the mouse clicks. I'm assuming this is what you are referring to as a "Swing Macro". This is all hearsay though and as far as I remember, these "fixes" have been in versions dating prior to 2k1, when I started playing. Maybe some of the old timers can shed some more light on this. If this "Swing Macro" is something new and it really does exist, not just something your angry mind pulled out of your ass to give RTSers some weight when then try to argue their side, then maybe you'll understand what my point is after all and actually learn something in the process. If you suspect someone use some "Swing Macro", DON'T PLAY THEM!! It's still a free country, isn't it?? 

> Suppose a guy that was accused so much of cheating,

> when he never did, made this information available

> to all. I'm talking about "Exactly How to Cheat

> 'Classic' using a Macro to control the Snap!". Then

> it seems to me that suddenly all the Clickers that

> are biased like you would feel what we feel when you

> play and someone accuses you of cheating when you

> don't.

>

> It seems like this 'IS' the only alternative to this

> War on Rtsers. So the next time Some Clicker gets

> his arse beat by an Rtser, and Calls him an RTEdger,

> he can Call the Clicker a MacroLoZer(My own name for

> it).

You should get it trademarked. So your idea to make clickers feel how RTSers feel when they are suspected of edging (even thought people admit to edging and there is no way to tell is they are edging or not) is to come up with a theory about some "Swing Macro". This way RTEdgers can accuse clickers of an offense of which they can't prove. Hmm, dude you're mind isn't only very angry, it's completed twisted. Seek help now because I know your type and arguing with people like me only drives you more towards total insanity.

But if you're serious about promoting this "Swing Macro" thing of yours to help you sleep better at night, do it. WTF do I care what you do???  You do what you do and I do what I do and so long as you don't rub me the wrong way again, you'll be fine..

> So then the Validity of both swing types will have

> just as much doubt as the other.

>

> Then maybe people like you will just learn to STFU

> and play the game without all the Whining and name

> calling when your losing. What do you think?

I really think you have a lot of misguided anger and should watch what you accuse people of. "people like you will just learn to STFU and play the game without all the Whining"??? Do I know you?? Do you know me?? Like I said before, maybe you've had some bad experience with clickers but don't lump all clickers in one group. I don't refuse to play RTSers and I don’t confront them. If I suspect someone is cheating, I probably wont play them again if I can. The same goes with clickers that used to do the window mode cheat in 2k1. It's no different. Did you actually read what I have on my site or did somebody bully you around too much in the zone and you need a place to vent?? I'm not interested in your anger management problems so next time have something interesting to say..

 > Stay tuned for the Website to be posted in the Zone

> on "How to become a MacroLoZer". I bet it will be a

> Big Hit!!

> If you take an honest Clicker and an Honest Rtser,

> both proficient in their game. The Clicker has a

> Huge advantage over Rts, because if the clicker

> Using a "Swing Chart" clicks a fairly good snap, his

> club hits that exact distance ever single time. But

> if you take the same shot with Rts, and your tempo

> isn't precise, it can be short or long + or - 30

> yards.

If you take an honest RTSer and an honest Clicker, both proficient in their game the RTSer has a huge advantage over clicking because if the RTSer knows his club distances and has good tempo, he hits the same exact distance every single time. But if you take the same shot in clicking, and your snap is off, it can be short or long + or - 30 yards.

 Hmmm, seems to me you're statement and mine can both be correct so what was the point you were trying to make again???

 > Isn't a "Swing Chart" a Cheat? It seems this

> 'Cheating' thing is OK when it's in your favor,

> don't it?

Again you're assuming I use a chart. You don't know me and have never played me so please don't generalize like you do. I'll let you in on a little secret; there are only 13 club distance that you have to remember to be a good clicker. These are for standard loft. For LW-8i the loft changes alter the distances + or - 5 yards per click. For 7i-6i it + or - 4 yards per click and for 5i-3i it's + or - 3 yards per click. For woods it's + or - 2 yards with a 5w and + or - 1 with a 3w. If you learn this and keep it in the fairway you can usually get it inside of 15 ft of the pin if you factor the shape of the green (using the green cam), the speed of the green and the wind. Each of these 3 factors affects the amount of loft in a +1 or -1 click way as well. What I have just let you in on is the secret of links clicking. Funny though because it's exactly how I play real golf too. I know how far I hit each club when I get a good strike and then I might choke down a bit to get less distance or if the wind is behind me, etc.... If this is cheating then someone better tell that to the PGA because those guys on TV that play almost every Thursday through Sunday are doing the same sort of calculations...

 Now I'm not saying people don't use charts, they certainly do. A chart just puts on paper what I’ve described to you above. Now I've seen some wacky charts out there that take the lie into account to the pixel level and also factor in the direction of the wind to the nth degree and count the number of ridges of the green, but I can't see how someone can use all this without taking 10 minutes between shots. There, add that to you web site. How to sniff out charters - they take forever between shots. No matter what though, that's still not cheating because they still have to execute a good swing… That’s the difference that you seem to be missing. When an edger misjudges, the shot still goes where they aimed. If a clicker misses a snap, the ball is usually in the woods and you have a 50% chance on saving par. With edging, you're usually still on the fairway and it a lot easier to save par from the short stuff. I should be charging you by the hour for the lesson but I'm actually enjoying myself;-)

 > It's time to put an end to this bias. and if it

> takes a guy like me to show the World How to Cheat

> at 'Classic' to do it, just so I can play a Video

> Game and have fun without being called a Cheater,

> then So Be It!

I am biased towards "suspecting" someone MIGHT be RTEdging because it's considered cheating by everyone, even by RTSers and even yourself. Look above at your line that says "But when honest players get put in that category with absolutely no proof, then it's just wrong". If you think charts are cheating (which I don’t), I suggest you buy some tickets to a PGA event near you and go see the interaction between a player and their caddy. You'll hear them talk about the lie, how the ball will come out, the elevation difference and how to handle being "in-between" clubs. Try to get a hold of a yardage book that the PGA gives the pros. It's incredible how much detail is in there. Even with all that information and discussion, the hardest part is execution, which if they do well with, they make some money. With RTEdging, the hard part, i.e. the execution, is eliminated from the equation hence the bias towards "suspecting" someone MIGHT be RTEdging if all their shots are perfect. If I’m putting time and effort into playing online then I want my opponents to be putting a little effort as well. If I wanted to play a mechanical device or a ruler, I’d just play against the computer offline. Besides, what makes you think you’re so special and I HAVE to play you? There are people I choose not to play because I just don't get along with. And judging buy the attitude problem you have, you just made my list.

>

> Cya Soon MacroLoZer!!

You started you email with “ I was reading your point of view on RTs, and I agree and disagree” and I thought I was finally gonna have an RTSer make an interesting argument but I can see that the first line is the only line you actually put some thought in. It’s the only one that has any suggestion of intellect. All down hill from there because you never actually made a single comment that what was in agreement with any of my views on RTEdgers… If you actually read my site and let your mind absorb it and put some thought into it(I know you can do it, it just takes some practice), then you should have no problem with my opinions because you wouldn't be considered an RTEdger my me. You scores are so low that you kick all the clickers arses so bad that surely your short game must be very good so you would fail me "RTEdge litmus test" of having a pathetic short game and a great long game. I guess the Ritelin must have worn off after reading all those big sentences leading up to it. 

You need to watch you tone with me because not only am I smarter than you and can articulate an argument with my big head, not the little one like you do, but I can also squash you like a bug on the virtual fairways as well. I get a kick out of dissecting and ripping apart arguments that people like YOU make. It’s a hobby of mine so next time put some more thoughts into your arguments if you wanna mix it up or be prepared to be embarrassed. Ask the RTSers over on the Links Corner Forums. The moderator had to lock the thread because I was making a mockery of all the RTSers with similar arguments like yours… It was very entertaining though, I must admit. I hardly play much anymore but maybe something like this might spurn my interest again.

Sincerely,

Meat