Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:50:59 EDT From: JAFount@aol.com Subject: [uuc] Re: Traffic Stop Tips Hello all. Well, I also read Bill Howard's article and found many of the "tips" to be rather comical. Let me first offer this caveat to all who read it: officers are people. People with all the same problems as any of you may have. Although personal issues SHOULDN'T be a factor in how job functions are carried out the fact is, it can and does happen. Additionally, the views expressed are MY OPINIONS and how I CHOOSE to handle given situations. Therefore they are not universally applicable. OK. That said, here I go. I will address each tip as written by Mr. Howard and offer my opinion to its value. 1) Don't give them a reason to stop you. Duh! Things like "inspection stickers" or "registration tags" are a given. I believe that most BMW owners keep their respective vehicles in tiptop shape, so equipment violations should be a non-issue. Seatbelts are for your own protection. The only time I use the no seatbelt law to stop a car, is if it obviously a "dirtmobile" operated by a "dirtbag." Now I know you shouldn't judge a book by the cover, but the fact is that 95% of the time, this nets an unlicensed/uninsured driver who could easily slam into you or your family. I believe stopping these kinds of violators is what the hardworking taxpayers are paying for. It's true, that I can always find a reason to stop you, but why? I would never make up the "weaving in the lane" lie, because my experience has taught me that sooner or later, a violation occurs. Therefore, it is inexcusable to lie just to stop a car. 2) Pull over right away. Yes, pull over but do so safely. Don't make a wild turn/stop movement. That pisses us off. Don't bother to go for the license/registration right away. This could get my Glock screwed in your ear. Turning on the four ways, doesn't really make a difference. After all, I have a patrol car behind you with emergency lights or four-ways on, yours don't matter. I appreciate it when a driver turns on the dome light. I also like it when both front windows are open (both because I don't necessarily approach on the driver side of the vehicle). People who have the windows open and the interior lights on have nothing to hide. This makes for a smoother less stressful contact. I prefer a driver leave their hands on the steering wheel until asked to retrieve license/registration info. 3) Be polite. Say sir/maam a lot. It's true, I make notes on my copy of a ticket. I usually write whether the person was an A-hole, but that's about it (aside from fact surrounding the contact). Judges don't see my copy of a citation, so they don't know about attitude problems unless I testify to it in court. The real reason I note my copy "A/H" (which if anyone asked would mean aggressive and hostile) is to remind me how badly I would like to see this person convicted. If there are no A/H notes on my cite, and the court date falls on my day off...well...I call the court and ask that the cite be dismissed. My family is waaaay more important than convicting a citizen for an infraction. Remember, signing the ticket and including things like "under protest" with the sig, doesn't sit well with officers OR judges. A citation is essentially an arrest, but you are released by signing the "promise to appear" in lieu of the arrest. 4) Admit nothing This is where I take exception to the advice provided. If I am undecided on whether I issue a citation and the driver refuses to acknowledge the errant driving, they WILL earn the ticket. 95% of the time, if a driver admits they knew why I stopped them, they drive away with no ticket in hand. I appreciate the honesty. Otherwise, it's either an insult to my intelligence, or the driver is so incompetent they deserve the cite for sheer stupidity. Then I will also "stack" whatever other violation, like no current registration card, no change of address, or any other errant driving. You know when you are speeding. ESPECIALLY on surface streets. If you don't know, then you deserve the ticket. 5) Take the breathalyzer What the hell is he talking about?!?! First of all, understand that a "PAS" or preliminary Alcohol Screening device is NOT a breathalyzer. A breathalyzer, is administered AFTER you are arrested for drunk driving. Taking a PAS at the scene can often times prevent you from being arrested in the first place, because it is reliable and may show your Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) less than the legal limit. If you refuse a PAS and force me into arresting you, even id the breathalyzer shows your BAC less than the legal limit, I will arrest you for "driving while impaired due to alcohol" rather than "driving with BAC greater than .08%". This is another one of those "you reap what you sew" things. If you are honest and cooperative, I will cut lots of slack. If you are uncooperative and a jerk, I will do everything I can to inconvenience you, this includes towing your car. Understand, the breathalyzer is pretty much idiot-proof these days. To get out of an arrest, you would have to show that the machine was not reading correctly. 6) Take mental notes Yes, there are always variables. Yes, the radar could have had a phantom reading. Is it likely that these excuses will get you off in traffic court? No. That's not to say it NEVER works, but it is not likely. If you are taking mental notes about the scene during your field sobriety tests, you have got much bigger problems. You don't need tips on a traffic stop. You need an attorney because you just got arrested for drunk driving. Also, I do sobriety tests at the jail, in a well lighted, warm weather free environment. Remember, its not just your test performance that determines whether you are arrested. The physiological effects of alcohol do things that you are incapable of practicing or hiding, these are considered "objective signs of intoxication." That's what gets you arrested. 7) Don't consent to a search of your vehicle Don't be an asshole. If you don't have anything in your car, say "go ahead and search." I don't search unless there is some extenuating circumstance anyway, so chances are I wouldn't ask for consent anyway. I take offense to the attorney comment that I would lie about what I see in plain view. I would also assume that any BMW driver wouldn't have 52 McDonalds bags in their car anyway! There may not be a breathalyzer for cocaine, but HELLO...implied consent laws say you MUST submit to an applicable test. Therefore, if you were arrested for influence of controlled substance while driving, you would be required to take a blood or urine screen. Therefore, cops are UNABLE to "cut themselves slack" for such an arrest. 8) Don't annoy the cop Once again, DUH! You reap what you sew! Don't nestle anything under your driver license. If you can manage to engage the office in idle chat and get out "my son/daughter/dad/uncle is an officer too" you might get a break. You hand me your uncles business card, and you will get cited. If you have a stack of unpaid parking tickets, you are an idiot and chances are, your car will be impounded. I couldn't care less if you tape the exchange. It is a)not legal, b) not admissible c) doesn't matter because I don't do improper things on traffic stops anyway. 9) ask for a break If I want to give you a break, I will. If you ask for a break, I will cite you. Why? I guess it's just a peeve of mine. I want to make the decision myself. I just hate it when someone says give me a break. I give a crap if you have a radar detector. I have one too! 10) lawyers In California, you aren't entitled to a jury trial for an infraction. If you show up to court with an attorney, you will just annoy the judge. If you haven't had a ticket in a while, your insurance rates aren't going to jump. Go to court, hope for the best and take your lumps. It's not a big deal, no matter how you feel at the time. After all the average person has a police contact about once every 18 months, usually on a traffic stop, so if you stick to the average, you can take the Internet driver school and avoid the points! Don't know if this helps, but I hope it does. Feel free to e-mail me with individual questions should you have any. JF Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:02:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Leung Subject: [uuc] Traffic Stops John Fountaine, a cop in Kalifornia (not CHP) says: (btw remember Dri Wash'n'Guard from the Welty list anyone?) >10) lawyers > >In California, you aren't entitled to a jury trial for an infraction. If you >show up to court with an attorney, you will just annoy the judge. If you >haven't had a ticket in a while, your insurance rates aren't going to jump. >Go to court, hope for the best and take your lumps. It's not a big deal, no >matter how you feel at the time. After all the average person has a police >contact about once every 18 months, usually on a traffic stop, so if you >stick to the average, you can take the Internet driver school and avoid the >points! I highly disagree with this statement. The system is about revenue collection; the city wants the money. The city doesn't care how it gets the money. Thus, if you get a ticket, go to court and GET A LAWYER. Don't worry, the city will still get its money through court costs, judge taking his cut, etc... but GET A LAWYER. 99% of the time there will be no conviction, no points, no record, no nothing. Who cares what the judge thinks about your lawyer, the judge is part of the system and knows how it works. What will happen in court is this: Judge: Mr. xyz ! Judge: *mumbles something uninteligble to lawyer* Lawyer: *mumbles something unintelligble to judge>* Judge: Mr xyz, your supervision is served. No conviction, no points, no fine. please pay your court costs at the cashier. Elapsed time : less than one minute. I mean, let's see....we already wasted our time in court, and time = money. Why would we want to waste more time and money with traffic school?!?! Just pay the lawyer (usually like $100 or so) and you're done with it! Establish a good rapport with your traffic attorney and he'll probably slide his costs for you once every few tickets. Face it, speeding tickets = revenue collection. You're gonna be out the money anyways so give the money to your attorney and avoid all the points, traffic school, etc that results from you give the $$$ to the city. Jason Leung not an attorney hails from Chicago, vote *early* and vote *often* ;-) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:25:47 -0700 From: delorlst@gte.net Subject: Re: [uuc] Traffic Stops Jason Leung (from Chicago) wrote: > but GET A LAWYER. 99% of the time there will be no conviction, no points, > no record, no nothing. Who cares what the judge thinks about your Hmmmm, I have friends in Illinois and from what they tell me, things are different there than in California. I agree that you should get a lawyer, especially if the infraction is for 2 points and not just 1. But here in California (the Great State of Government by General Proposition and Moral Priciple) you are less likely to be able to bargain with the Judge on terms of protocol. The judicial system seems little more severe here... On the other hand, the enforcement end of things seems a little more relaxed. Traffic regularly flows at 80-90mph, that is of course if it's moving at all... Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:31:10 -0400 From: "Chris Brown" Subject: [uuc] Re: Traffic Stop Tips Thanks JF, that was good commentary. While I certainly admit that I go over the limit all the time on the freeways and back roads (empty rural ones, that is) I don't have any points, and haven't for a long time. Why? I'm always perfectly honest when I am, ahem, "asked to stop and have a chat"! - ----- ------ ------- ------- ------ Usually goes something like this: Officer: Good , License, Registration, Insurance card please: Me: Certainly, one moment.... Officer: Do you know why I stopped you? Me: Yes, I was speeding. I think it was 68 when you pulled me over. This is a 55 zone, I know! Officer: OK, that is what I thought as well! Radar had you at 67. Me: Yup, sounds about right officer. I was just cruising along, not much traffic today, for a change! Officer: Do you have any points? Me: Nope, haven't had any for a long time. Officer: OK, I'm going to . Just try and slow down a bit here! Me: Thanks very much Officer, that is very kind of you - have a good day. Can I buy you a drink? (just kidding about that last statement!) - --- ---- --- --- --- Do I ever mention that my brother is a law enforcement officer? No. Do I provide an FOP membership card (I have had a membership for 11 years). No. I just tell the truth and treat a person doing their job with respect. Not very difficult and no matter what happens, you can feel good about the way you handled it. Will this work for everybody? Maybe not, but in most cases this is your best chance to avoid points. If you did something stupid, like run a stop sign, red light, etc. Well then you better suck it up and take your medicine! But for the typical speeding infraction, you have a decent chance to avoid points. Now, if you are 40 over the limit on a crowded road, passing on the right... Well, maybe the officer is a car nut too! You better hope so! YMMV - Chris Brown ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:54:58 -0700 From: Scott Catlin Subject: Re: [uuc] Traffic Stops Just an anecdote: A friend of mine has a Concealed Weapon Permit and carries his sidearm with him nearly where ever he goes. Every time he is stopped he keeps his hands on the wheel until the officer asks him for his license, then he hands him both the license and his CWP. The cop asks him where the gun is, he tells him, and the officer usually lets him go, thanking him for his honesty and consideration. Not always, but usually. YMMV.