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] SamHarris.org Reader Forum Index /  #4  /
] Specific Comments on The End of Faith / 4 April 07 /
] Thread title > relativism, realism, and pragmatism /
] Post subject > Re: moral relativism and stuff /
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> On 24March07 CanZen wrote: [snip]
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 tx say: Hey, cz, good post. I tend to agree with all that you say
... with one notable exception:
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> ...  if everyone gets to decide by his/her own tastes [snip]
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 Well that's just what makes ethics and morality and spirituality so darn
interesting: everyone DOES get to decide by his/her own tastes, understanding,
and reason. This is why there's just no escaping the fact that every single mature
individual must take responsibility for his/her own actions. THAT is the heart and
soul of all ethics and morality and spirituality. And also the one thing that moral
relativism can never do away with.
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 As for myself, I'm part naive-realist (of the common-sense faction), part
existentialist, part textual-critic, and (large) part historian. Now that's a lot
of hats to wear all at the same time, but it has one great advantage: Whereas the
vast majority of philosophers (as also scientists) are 'experts', which is to say
'specialists' in just one particular area or field, my multi-tasking approach to
philosophy allows me to be something of an "expert generalist". If you don't know
quite what to make of that, think of it as the ability to see the big-picture where
others get entangled by the details. I'm a high-powered telescope surrounded by
thousands of puny little microscopes!
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 :D
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 As for the idea that pacifism is flagrantly immoral, I don't know. I understand and
accept Sam's thinking as to why this so, and therefore agree that absolute pacifism
is indeed immoral, or rather, can be immoral; but I see nothing wrong with pacifism
as a general social norm for the majority of citizens living within a civilized
society and culture. After all, we have police-forces and armies to do the "dirty
work" of subduing criminals and invaders for us. And don't forget that social-
diversification also allows for the presence and activities of philosophers.
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                     - the almost diversified one - textman ;;>
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] SamHarris.org Reader Forum Index ->  #5 /
] Specific Comments on The End of Faith / 4 April 07 /
] Thread title > relativism, realism, and pragmatism /
] Post subject > Re: the morality of extreme wealth /
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> On 4Apr SaulOhio wrote: [snip] One example I have heard of is that of some-
> one who is shipwrecked and washes ashore on a privately owned island. To an
> Objectivist, property rights are  absolute, but they do not apply to this case.
> It would be absurd to expect them to try to swim to the mainland just to avoid
> trespassing on someone else's island. Fortunately, of course, nobody, no
> matter how rich and eccentric, would expect them to. The right to life, in this
> emergency situation, trumps private property
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 tx say: Interesting argument, SaulOhio. I like your notion of 'absolute within
context'. Nor am I opposed to the institution of private property, as such. How-
ever, this thing about privately owned islands bothers me. Frankly, I think that
the whole idea of people owing large tracks of land is basically and fundamentally
immoral. The Earth can't be bought by the rich. It belongs to the race as a whole,
as a trust to keep and honor so that future generations may have the possibility
of a good and healthy life in a clean and healthy environment.
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 Sadly, the rich do not care about either humanity or the future. Protecting their
"rights" therefore is not only also immoral, but ultimately self-destructive, not
to mention suicidal (ie. in the long run).
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 Reason is indeed a moral absolute, but so is the welfare of the human race, AND
the planet itself, AND the future of both! And all of these things "trumps" the
needs and desires of the rich. I guess what I'm trying to say is just that there
are no rights without responsibilities.
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] wwwSite > SamHarris.org Reader Forum Index ->  #6 /
] Forum > Specific Comments on The End of Faith /
] Thread title > relativism, realism, and pragmatism /
] Post subject > Re: High-powered telescope / 5 April 07 /
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>> On 4Apr Joad wrote: [snip] You are quite correct to
>> address the paradox of absolutes in conflict
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 tx say: "the paradox of absolutes in conflict"? ... Could you maybe expand
on that a bit? ... the paradox of 'absolutes-in-context' in conflict within
a larger conflict of ideologies and interpretive schemes ?!?! ... Yowsers!
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> On 4Apr CanZen wrote: [snip] On another subject textman, you are certainly
> going against the grain with your emphasis on being an "expert generalist" -
> what you are trying to achieve is wisdom,
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 tx say: An astute observation, CanZen. That is exactly right. Wisdom is indeed a
large part of what 'real-philosophy' is all about; hence the name of the goddess:
Lady Sophia. Now philosophy is not the abject slave of the goddess (that is to
say: wisdom is not the sum total of the philosophical enterprise), for it both does
and does not serve Her interests. In fact you might even say that Philosophy has
four more-or-less equal partners: Religion, Science, History, and Wisdom/Sophia.
Accordingly, a very tight relationship with all these aspects of Mind-in-Action
could only be to everyone's mutual benefit. Alas, this is not possible under the
current scheme of excessive specialization. Wisdom can't even be easily found
under such appalling conditions, let alone analyzed and quantified. This is, and
indeed must be, a major problem all around; and especially so for History. But
Science and Philosophy are generally not interested in History, or its problems
and "issues". Yet only philosophy is situated so as to see the problem, and thus
raise the alarm.
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> and the way academia is structured today you are supposed to be either a
> specialist or you are nothing.
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Right. They suppose that they've got every little thing covered. But they suppose
falsely. Where is the specialist whose expertise is to investigate the question that
asks whether the current interpretive and scientific paradigm does in fact cover
every-little-thing, or not? And if they are overlooking *that* key question (or
worse, deliberately ignoring it), what else, one wonders, are they ignoring and /
or overlooking?
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> What an excellent place from where to start your high-powered telescopic
> synopsis: part naive-realist, part existentialist, part textual critic, and part
> historian! I think many of us on this forum share exactly that same sort of
> foundational perspective and you will find much agreement among most of us.
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 Hahaha, thx for the kind thoughts, CanZen. On the other hand, I'm sure I'll be
able to insult the atheist and skeptic types sooner or later. And I dare say that
I can even come up with something that almost anybody can disagree with. :D
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                  - the almost disagreeable one - textman ;>
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P.S. Ah, yes. If only, if only! ... If only there was *some* rational and objective
means by which to get a handle on these strange and slippery critters called
'wisdom' and 'spirit'. Then *maybe* something could be done ...
'Impossible', you say? 'Never happen', you say? ... Oh ye of little faith!
Never say: "It will never happen!" ... It might happen sooner than you think.
The question is not 'When will it happen?', the question is: Will you be ready
for it? Will you be strong enough to take those all-important first few steps?
If you are ...
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textman
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