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Meeting between AW & Gor 5/2/2001
Immigration Officer: Welcome to Untitled, Crystal Wind SophiA Deer: Hello and Tal Rena lysandra VL: Greetings, Mistresses lysandra VL: greetings, slaves Flagg: To try to keep it from getting to confusing I will answer one question at a time so if we start on a topic please save your new questions for once the discussion is complete. Xandar: May I make a suggestion? Timojin: whisper greetings please VaLence: *puts a finger to His lips, indicating to His girl to hush for now* Crystal Wind: Greetings all Timojin: let him speak uninterrupted Flagg: Hi Crystal Wind Crystal Wind: =)` Flagg Timojin: ? Flagg: Crystal we just started so I'm not sure if you had anything to say before I started answering questions? fiery KNfg: Greetings Mistress Crystal Wind *hugs* Crystal Wind: Not really Flagg .. she like many has questions though .. are we waiting for people to arrive or using the cue system ~came late so lost~ Flagg: Well like I said I will try my best to answer all of your questions and concerns and if there are questions that I can not answer I will get back to the person asking the question in e-mail or telegram. Xandar: <thinks using the queue system is a good idea> Crystal Wind: thank you Flagg <end> Flagg: So who would like to start? Timojin: me Timojin: a question? Timojin: ive heard of events on AWbingo concerning disrespect of Goreans Timojin: Daphne megan SJH: Greetings, Masters, Mistresses, slaves Timojin: She seems to not like us Timojin: on AWBingo Timojin: any responce Flagg? Flagg: yes Timojin: listens Flagg: First let me clear up a misunderstanding Flagg: Daphne does not work for Activeworlds... She is a community volenteer and runs the CitBingo world as such. Flagg: Her opinions regarding Gor are not a real secret Sarishia: hi :) Sierra Bryce: :: grins :: Xandar: ! Sin Jin Hawk: Tal Flagg: However, the orginal issue regarding her not letting people who partake in Gor to participate in donating prizes Flagg: I believe was a misunderstanding ayana SssS: ! megan SJH: ! Sarishia: ! Sierra Bryce: ! Xandar: <chuckles> Flagg: let me finish and I'll take comments :-) VaLence: lol Serpent: *Grin* Karten: ( will watch the queue for Flagg) Flagg: I don't want to get into the specifics of the issue, but if the people involved want to discuss it that is fine... And that is only in regards to her not excepting prizes Flagg: As for comments she has made while running the world Flagg: We have spoken to her about that and do not believe that will be a issue again VaLence: *whew* Sierra Bryce: good news Serpent: Indeed Timojin: agreed Flagg: her personal opinions expressed to freinds while not running CitBingo, however, will not be held against her. Xandar: <nods to opinions> Flagg: unless they are direct attack on a specific user and then the Conduct Guidelines at http://www.activeworlds.com/conduct.html will be enforced Karten: *nods agreement to that* Flagg: ummm... <end> Karten: ayann a comment Karten: ayana even Ubar Luther: We will be using the que system here VaLence: *chuckles* ayana SssS: thank you Timojin: nods Ubar Luther: I shall moderate that for Flagg at his request ayana SssS: i have at the BINGO games was next in lime to receive a prize and was publically announced that a "gorean would not get this prize" Daphne was openly rude, hostile and sacrastic she came outright and stated she "would not let any gorean win a nice Flagg: Thank you Ubar :) Ubar Luther: Xandar was first in the que Karten: i missed him then sorry Xandar: ty Luther,,, ayana SssS: oops megan SJH: hmms ayana SssS: ~whites outs~ Sainte Who: heh heh Serpent: *chuckle* ayana SssS: sorry :( Ubar Luther: NP Ubar Luther: Xandar? Xandar: Flagg,,,,the only issue I have with your comment on that particular incident is that she clearly (and I do mean very clearly) stated she would refuse prizes by Goreans and hated the very thought of them,,,,even tho she is a volunteer, is this someone Xandar: AW wants to stand in a ROLE of being their representative? Xandar: end Flagg: That is a good point... raised by others as well... Flagg: Daphne has been a member of the community for a very long time and has done many wonderful things. I also consider her to be a friend. Flagg: However, I do not agree with her views on the subject Xandar: ! Timojin: ! Crystal Wind: !? Flagg: Because this is the first time this issue has been raised Skyla: ? Flagg: We felt a warning and explanation of how we feel things should be run to Daphne was enough. And as I said I don't think it will be a issue again Flagg: We did not feel that removing her as host of CitBingo without warning was a fair resolution... Flagg: end Ubar Luther: ayana? ayana SssS: Thank you Ubar : ) ayana SssS: i have at the BINGO games was next in lime to receive a prize and was publically announced that a "gorean would not get this prize" Daphne was openly rude, hostile and sacrastic she came outright and stated she ayana SssS: "would not let any gorean win a nice object as this" ayana SssS: i do not go to BINGO due to her attitude and rudeness. she refused to answer ANY of my questions when i first came to BINGO since i did not kow that game and how it worked. ayana SssS: i repeatedly asked her and she lol and answered ALL but mine and then went into "gor bashing" she also stated openly she was tracking ISP and cit #s to keep track of them if ayana SssS: they entered as a new name to prevent them from winning prizes. How can someone like this please run and facilitate a community event? show that AW welcomes all and is open to everyone? ayana SssS: If you are made to feel like an outsider, being discrimated against and being "tracked" ? ayana SssS: end thank you : ) Flagg: ok... well let me start by saying that Daphne can not track IP's in the CitBingo world. BodhiTah: <snickers> ayana SssS: she announced it in BINGO Flagg: All the complaints we recieved were at the same time and thus handled as one issue. I do not believe you will have this type of problem again... Serpent: ? Flagg: And I do not recal seeing your complaint at that time Flagg: do not get me wrong. We will not tolerate someone discriminating against our customers when running one of our own worlds Flagg: but that does not mean we won't give them a second chance. ayana SssS: i di dnot know who to comaplin to and was told when i approached a person AW di dnot want goreans ayana SssS: i didnot knwo who to voice my concerns to ... ayana SssS: and please take this as my public voicing of concerns about Daphne ayana SssS: end Flagg: Her personal views do not concern us, as long they do not interfer with the intended atmosphere of game. ayana SssS: question Flagg: end Ubar Luther: megan? ayana SssS: if she can eject from AW BINGO she can get teh ISP ayana SssS: ? megan SJH: waits for ayana to finish ayana SssS: thank you megan :) Flagg: she can not eject from AWBingo Karten: *nods* TaziA: he will not come around much but if you eject he will sned his voldiers in Flagg: but you do raise a good point I may have missed Flagg: 2 things Flagg: 1 she did host AWbingo once or twice, but that was all. Flagg: 2nd. I may have made I mistatement Flagg: In CitBingo I do believe she has eject rights and if so she can see IP's Flagg: As for concerns regarding these issues Flagg: If they continue we would not be able to continue letter her host CitBingo Flagg: end ayana SssS: thank you for answering my questions ............. Ubar Luther: megan? megan SJH: smlies megan SJH: megan has a few things she would like to say actually while shes up here then she will be quiet, first off, she was donating prizes to citbingo at the time most of this stuff happened with Master Von Shrike, she is aka pretense that was mentioned megan SJH: in the newsgroups, now megan doesn't have any bitching, complaining, moaning, groaning ect to do, but she would like to say that if someone had told her they wanted the addy on the texture moved she would more or less moved it to a nother server she megan SJH: but she never was told, so had no clue, megan stopped donating there when SoS quit, but has resumed the donation of prizes, megan thinks that perhaps Daphne made a mistake, everyones entitled, if she has ill feelings then she does, nothing anyone can megan SJH: do to change that, but its just like the rifts between the Goreans, before anyone goes complaining she has a feeling some of us are guilty of being discriminating against someone in our lives, cause no one is perfect megan SJH: basically megan has no ill wills towards Daphne and hasn't had any problems with her, she's found sevearl of the hosts accepting at cit bingo and does enjoy them, they know she 's Gorean and they don't hold it against her, it just takes a while to megan SJH: get to know others megan SJH: she would however ask that that nasty lil thread be removed from the newsgroups megan SJH: END megan SJH: just after thought actually.. for anyone that didn't understand as was pointed out to her, megan does play bingo as pretense Rena from Ar: i must go Flagg: WEll I believe that part of the orginal prize issue was a misunderstanding and mostly directed at one person and not your community as whole. megan SJH: its a name that people knows she uses and she has nothing to hide, shrugs, she just choose not to force her gorean existance on anyone else and has permission to use that name megan SJH: yes but Flagg my name was mentioned in that whole thread Sin Jin Hawk: ~nods~ megan SJH: and megan would appreciate it being deleted Flagg: I'm not aware of the thread you refer to... what is the location? megan SJH: its on the newsgroup megan SJH: she would have to go back and look at it Flagg: Activeworlds newsgroup? megan SJH: nods megan SJH: the one where alot of this exploded megan SJH: about a month and half back Flagg: please e-mail me a copy of the thread to [email protected] and I will look into it for you. Xandar: <thinks he should read it and will see she attacked ALL Goreans, not just one> megan SJH: okie dokie =) Flagg: thank you Flagg: end Ubar Luther: Sarishia? Sarishia: speaking from experience, i stopped playing CitBingo when twice i was refused the prize i won, due to being gorean....altho in daphne's defense she did help me at one point with correcting a card error, i still dont believe i would have recieved the megan SJH: smiles Sarishia: prize.... Dranak: ! Sarishia: from what i was told, it is up to the donator of the prize to send it....and if you are gorean they can withhold the prize if they choose from anyone kristianna Xan: ! Sarishia: it is not necessarily Daphne's fault, but i believe AW should have some enforcement on the issue...as a side note, this was over a year ago since i played Bingo Dranak: retracts ! Sarishia: also...as a former PK i can attest to the fact that when a problem arose with a gorean, if it was not on a PK patrolled world, we could do nothing to help Sarishia: that includes the Bingo worlds Sarishia: also...im sure any slave with a collar who ventures onto PK patrolled worlds...can attest to harrassment by tourists and cits alike as far as being a slave Crystal Wind: ~nods~ Sarishia: i got my fair share of it....maybe even more when you add being a PK on top of it amaraUTfg: ! Karten: that could apply to submissives of other cultures too Sarishia: AW needs to either admit to being not willing to do anything about these subjects... Sarishia: or finally, after all this time....do something... Sarishia: AW has known of public harrassment of goreans for ages... Sarishia: this Bingo thing is just a nothing issue on top of the old ones Sarishia: another* Sarishia: end Flagg: Well as far as Daphne not giving or taking prizes when a member of Gor was involved, I think I addressed that earlier and all I can say is that if it happens again we won't be able to let her host CitBingo. Flagg: As for users taking there prizes back because they didn't like who won Flagg: That is not acceptable. if I prize is donated then whoever wins it... wins it... If the donating person does not provide there prize then they will not be able to donate prizes any more Flagg: As for people harrasing you in public worlds Sarishia: how about collecting the prize from them beforehand Crystal Wind: ~refrains from applause~ Sarishia: to avoid the issue Flagg: That is a good suggestion and I will recomend that for when it is possible Flagg: On the other topic Flagg: When in a public chatting area it is recomended that if someone is saying something you do not like then you mute them Flagg: If they are not following the content guidelines you can request a PK to remove them Flagg: when in most of our public worlds Sarishia: Flagg, i have been ejected because of someone bringing up the gorean issue even tho i said nothing, when asked why the GK said "to solve the problem i removed the gorean" Karten: *looks at Flagg for this answer* Serpent: *Brow raised* VaLence: *raises an eyebrow* Flagg: The GK was wrong, but if you don't send a e-mail to the top GK's or Activeworlds then how can you expect anyone to do anything Flagg: It is very important Sarishia: if you think for a second i would go to a GK or a PK for being harrassed as a gorean, youre crazy.....ive seen first hand the ejection finger of some Sarishia: i did Flagg Flagg: that if you are not happy with something you let us know Sarishia: and thee supervisor approved the action Sarishia: the supervisor was there the whole time i was harrassed Flagg: In that case you should complain to [email protected] or directly to me Sarishia: i sent an email to abuse Flagg: [email protected] Sarishia: and got no response Sarishia: but im sure we will all remember to send to you from now on and expect some sort of response Flagg: Well... we try to answer every e-mail... Though it may not always be the fastest Karten: i would point out to all that Flagg is giving us a direct contact for such complaints now Sarishia: ok ive waited a year Flagg....can i expect a response within the next year Flagg? Flagg: With mail that comes to abuse we will usually research it before replaying Flagg: If we missed your mail I apologize Flagg: end Seanchan: ! to this issue Ubar Luther: Xandar? Sarishia: sorry Flagg, im not jumping you ...this is just a long standing sore spot Xandar: Flagg, her views and opinions are of no consequence to me,,,we are all entitled to those,,,,it is her *actions* that are disturbing. I hate to say this, and I mean no further disrespect to any here,,,,but what if it had been a racial remark? What if Flagg: If it had been a racial remark it would have been handled the exact same way. Flagg: end Ubar Luther: Crystal? Xandar: her remarks had been about an African American, or a Jewish person, or any other race? would we have still gotten the response from you that "she's been around a long time, and she's a personal friend?",,,,furthermore,,,, Crystal Wind: ~waits for Master to finish~ Xandar: I saw the logs of the conversation between her and the other person,,,it was not just an attack on him, it was on ALL Goreans,,,,I have not seen the other incidents that have been described here,,,,,but if they are factual, I am more than upset Flagg: I am just being honest with you as far as her relationship with Activeworlds is concernd, but that does not effect are decisions in any way. Flagg: People make mistakes... She made mistakes... We have told her what those mistakes are and I have told you that I don't think she will make those mistakes again... Xandar: I don't know anything about these other complaints here tonight,,,,but then I don't travel much,,,,but it would seem that protocol has been followed in reporting abuses, and nothing is being done Flagg: I don't know what more I can say, but my choices on this matter will not change. Flagg: Well I would disagree with you. Xandar: Oh yes, "emails take time to answer", I understand that,,,,but a year? Xandar: <end> Flagg: We may have missed her e-mail we do not take a year to answer e-mails Xandar: yes, I know for a fact AW seems to miss quite a few emails Xandar: LOL Flagg: if you send us a e-mail and don't get a responcse within 3 days please send it again. Flagg: end Ubar Luther: Crystal? Crystal Wind: thank you Ubar Crystal Wind: I know AW does answer mail sent to [email protected] but I would give it 5 days personally before resending and I also know they are loosing some mails as I have had to resend <cont> Crystal Wind: I think it important that everyone copy this url down and read what is on that page (it is hard to find this page) however this page does tell how to file a complaint and we need to start doing that instead of complaining to one another. Crystal Wind: http://www.activeworlds.com/conduct.html Crystal Wind: and the emails Flagg has given tonight .. I *KNOW* they work and this is how I know Crystal Wind: When I filed a complaint, I found that Tom did not even know most of this stuff as no one has complained. Crystal Wind: I personally know you have gone out of your way to involve Goreans in more of AW worlds and 2 people from the community now run the Sunday bingo. Crystal Wind: I also see your efforts to come to us when it is past 9pm where you are and address concerns as a very positive step toward trying to resolve some of these issues and respect the Gorean community as a part of the greater AW Community. VaLence: *nods* Sarishia: ::agrees:: Crystal Wind: I believe this is a good *START* to trying to finally resolve these issues and recoginze the Gorean community is strong here in numbers as well as the investment they are making and I personally feel very hopeful in everything Im hearing here tonight Karten: *nods* Sierra Bryce: :: nods :: Sainte Who: ::ywans:: yup Serpent: *nodding* Sainte Who: er yawns, past 9 here too Crystal Wind: I know Tom does not have to be here and if he *were* ignoring these issues he would simply continue to .. what can you do?? leave aw? Sierra Bryce: We appreciate the meeting Tom. Crystal Wind: Re Daphne and you have spoken to her and it will not be a problem is good news, however Crystal Wind: I do have a couple questions -->> Crystal Wind: 1) Does AW need help answering complaints at [email protected]? I have heard many say they dont get response to that. Xandar: <past 4am here> Crystal Wind: 2) Many non-Gorean citizens have been involved in the establishment, building and growth of AW worlds such as Objects and WildAW. How does one become involved in this sort of voluteer activity? Who would they need to speak to if they wished to be m Crystal Wind: more active in the greater AW community (like Daphne is)? Crystal Wind: <end> Flagg: OK :-) Xandar: <there are other universes> Flagg: 1. Activeworlds is not a large company and yes we could use more people eventually to help in some things like handling complaints sent to [email protected] Crystal Wind: where do I send my application ~smiles~ Flagg: but, i think you can understand that we could not, for legal reasons, allow I community member to handle emails sent to us by our customers Crystal Wind: ~listens~ Flagg: many of those e-mails contain personal information about the customers Crystal Wind: yes Flagg Flagg: 2. As for volunteering Flagg: we do not have a good system in place for picking volunteers Flagg: General as staff is in Activeworlds we meet many people and when something like that comes up we usually we go to the people we know Flagg: on occasion people will recomend to us ideas that we may want to sponcer Flagg: In those cases the people with the ideas are usually picked to head up the project Flagg: I'm personally working, in my spare time, to set up a better system for the volenteers I work with so that we can more productivly get things done Flagg: If you have a idea or want just want to help. You can let me know via e-mail and if something comes up we will contact you. Flagg: [email protected] Flagg: end Ubar Luther: Skyla? Skyla: I had all this other wrote down but basically you need to understand Daphne has Been harassing ppl for along time Goreans,PKs,GK's and Tom you know that!!!..so it's nice it took a lawsuit for you to try to calm alot of ppl.. Crystal Wind: I cant speak for the Gorean Community but I have a feeling they would like to be involved more Flagg and I thank you for giving us the means to do that <end> Skyla: There maybe a lot of old timers here and I also know as a former PK you nor AW would accept this behavior from us Skyla: I have seen her in Juno warning newbies that AW is allowing BD/SM and slavery and she represents AW? Skyla: <END> Crystal Wind: ! Sarishia: :blinks:: Flagg: Ok... well I feel I have addressed the Daphne issue as much as I can and don't think I have to much more to add on that. Skyla: Hmmm So much for harassment... ayana SssS: ? Flagg: I disagree with your feelings that "AW would accept this behavior from us". Skyla: you have many people in here that have felt her Wrath Xandar: <actions speak louder than words> Sarishia: she said AW would NOT accept Flagg: The PK's and GK's are not with-out there own issues from time to time and they get warnings as well Skyla: Any other cit would have faced lock down Flagg: And we request the PK's give warnings before ejected somebody unless they are a regular trouble person Xandar: how many? <can see lawsuits have a way of getting emails answered> Xandar: ooops, sorry Luther Xandar: <hushing> Flagg: No actually any other cit would not face lock down for that. And as far as law suites go they had nothing to do with any of this Flagg: end Ubar Luther: Serpent? Serpent: *Smile*... I am sure many of us here appreciate you taking the time to speak with Daphne on this matter. I understand you feel this won't happen again, but as some have suggested this is not an isolated event Serpent: What I have heard tonight is alot of pain at the hands of an individual.... but I am not clear on what actions can be expected Serpent: What happens if and when it does? Perhaps another representative of AW who has personal dislikes and expresses them openly in a world meant to be enjoyed by All/all. Specifically what action will be taken by AW? Serpent: And what if heaven forbid... Daphne forgets your discussion with her.. and chooses to slam Goreans again?.. what can we expect? Serpent: End TaziA: no Flagg: Well like I said if Daphne's opinions continue to effect the intended atmosphere of CitBingo then we would not be able to continue having her host and would not continue to have her host Flagg: As for anyone else in the same sitution... We would let them know what they are doing wrong and if it didn't change then same thing. Flagg: We feel it is good policy to allow someone to know what they are doing is wrong and how to fix it Serpent: *Grin*.. I would agree with that tactic... I just don't want it to take hitting a brick wall with my head to be heard Flagg: We apply this in many situations including ones with members of Gor. Flagg: If you do have problems (from today forth :-) please do not hesitate to e-mail me and let me know. Flagg: We will respond Flagg: end Ubar Luther: kristianna? kristianna Xan: thank you for coming Flagg. this girls issues have been with GK's but she has not taken steps to deal with it as you have stated here today. she will do that from now on with logs. it seems a dead Bosk is being beaten here. We shall see if it works Serpent: *nodding*.. trust me friend... I'll not hesitate.. *Toothy Grin* Sarishia: ::grins at Serpent;: Karten: *chuckles over the dead Bosk* Xandar: <chuckles at Serpent> kristianna Xan: the reason that many do not use the avenue that yu state is due to the dislike being so vast and open kristianna Xan: it has appeared to be an acceptable behavior for the GK kristianna Xan: but this girl is willing to start making a fuss and keeping logs Sarishia: <~~is VERY good at making a fuss, just ask Seanchan LOL kristianna Xan: these people are representitives of AW kristianna Xan: but she will do it your way.. thank you for opening up your email to us for this.. but how do we know when the warnings are not piling up and nothing is being done as nothing in the past has been done? kristianna Xan: <END> Xandar: ? Flagg: Well to say nothing in the past has been done is not really true Sarishia: take his word for it for the moment Kristianna kristianna Xan: NODS Flagg: We do handle all request though we may have missed one a year ago :-) Flagg: There are 3 particular groups at issue Flagg: PK's, GK's and CitBingo Karten: all volunteer groups at that? Flagg: Everyone of the people in these groups are volunteers Flagg: There are bound to be mistakes Seanchan: ! still waiting patiently concerning PK's...... Flagg: The only way to stop it is to loose all volunteers and go to a bot system Flagg: And even that would have flaws Flagg: So as a hole for all the specific issues regarding these groups when they make a mistake we will let them know. We will expect them to change and if they don't we will do something about it kristianna Xan: agreed Flagg: We will not ignor it kristianna Xan: <smiles> thank yu .. good luck Flagg: It doesn't mean you will like our resolve, but you will know what it is Flagg: And that we did something Katreena: ! Crystal Wind: =)` Flagg: Mistakes will be made all we can do is try to make sure they don't happen again... And we do and will continue to do that Flagg: end Ubar Luther: Seanchan? Seanchan: <nods toward Luther> Seanchan: First of all, I acknowledge that AWCom must get a lot of email from a lot of people, given the size of the AW population... even I have missed replying to emails before and my volume of email is probably a fraction of what AW receives.. Seanchan: The PK's, GK's, and CitBingo are indeed made up of volunteers... Seanchan: I am an active PK and have been for nearly a year... Seanchan: because our groups are made up of volunteers, there are many people, with many feelings and emotions involved... Seanchan: I experience prejudice when I first applied to be a PK, I had to fight like hell to get accepted in training and was watched closely all through that... Seanchan: I was not and am still not allowed to use my normal email address for PK business since it is a gorworld.org domain.... Sarishia: ::knows that feeling well:: Seanchan: but there are people in the organizations who are good people with every good intention... Seanchan: all they want to do is help, and they are paid nothing for their labors except what satisfaction they get out of the endeavor... Seanchan: in the PK's, there are more and more Goreans being accepted into training and becoming full PK's... Seanchan: some have complained of this, mostly Xavarella and her group of malcontents.... Crystal Wind: =)` Karten: *chuckles* Seanchan: but there is progress being made... Seanchan: I can't speak for the GK's, but I sense there is a higher degree of prejudice there.... Seanchan: and of course we already know about the situation with CitBingo... Seanchan: Tom, I appreciate your hearing us tonight and standing here while you get a few darts tossed your way... kristianna Xan: <giggles> Karten: agreed there Seanchan: I know you don't have to take it, but you do because you to care about AW and where it is heading... Seanchan: I recommend that we continue keeping the dialogue open between Gor and AWCom, because through open communication, we can begin to alleviate prejudice... Seanchan: in reference to having trouble tracking complaints and for customers not knowing if there is any action on their problems, I have developed a database/web program that those who submit needs can track the progress.... Seanchan: I would be more than happy to share what I've developed, perhaps it could be adopted by AW and used on their website... Ubar Luther: It is hard online to find people you can truly trust Ubar Luther: The anonymity of the computer makes it far too easy Seanchan: meanwhile, I know the PK are working very hard at keeping things fair, whether you are Gorean, Amazon, Goth, are just plain strange.... Serpent: *chuckle* Seanchan: we do give people ample warnings before they are ejected and we must fill out very detailed eject reports for every eject (and we hate to do that paperwork) ... Seanchan: so there is a checks and balances system in place for the PK... Seanchan: if there are any abuses, simply contact the leadership of the organization in question first.... Seanchan: in the case of the PK, you can contact m0e, he is a fair man who will give every complaint the attention it deserves... Seanchan: now to one last point... Seanchan: I believe it is very important that we as Goreans also do our part, also show responsibility... Seanchan: in public worlds, it is inappropriate for any of us to be explicit in front of non Goreans... Seanchan: we should curtail the normal language between Master and slave, save that for the myriad of Gorean worlds in AW... Xandar: !!!!!! Xandar: n/m I'm already in the queue, sorry forgot Seanchan: because we must likewise be respectful of others who do not want to take part in our practices... Seanchan: through mutual respect, we can eventually overcome prejudice Crystal Wind: =)` Seanchan: and with that statement... Seanchan: <end> Jarl Mongo: Thank ye Jesus Flagg: Thank you Seanchan :) Sarishia: jesus aint got nothing to do with it Mongo Flagg: I would be interested in seeing your software and hearing more about it Sarishia: altho i hear the devil moved in next door Seanchan: I'll call you tomorrow Tom Xandar: <LOL @ Mongo Flagg: ok sounds good. :-) Flagg: end Ubar Luther: Crystal? Seanchan: it is all off the shelf software with some adaptations Crystal Wind: thank you Ubar Crystal Wind: On the lawsuit ~sighs~ Tom really has no way of even knowing for sure if I was not bluffing as the complaint was never filed (while I was involved).. I have reason to believe that depositions and contacts were made because I found myself outside the Crystal Wind: lawsuit and not in charge of it and I dropped it at expense to myself. I dont think any of us want to see AW destroyed--It was simply something I did not believe in anymore. Crystal Wind: However, Tom has not seen anything (that I know of) which would indicate my complaint was backed by a lawsuit. AW has been sued in the past however and Im sure they are not afraid of such threats. Crystal Wind: I truely believe that AW has come to see the value of our community and by Tom's very presence here tonight under such close *Gorean scruitany* others would wilt and he stands here with assurances .. I think we need to give it a chance. Crystal Wind: He did not have to come here and it is also believed by *many* the lawsuit was a bluff ~shrugs~ I also understand the frustration over what seems the past inaction of AW and have come myself to believe that because AW is a new upstart they may have Crystal Wind: had some problems in the past .. I like to think that is in the past and AW is now dealing more effectively with these issues. Crystal Wind: That said I prefer to leave the Daphne issue which seems at a stale mate *for now* and bring another concern the Gorean community has. We are an adult community. Crystal Wind: One of the problems the Gorean community faces is that they are an adult community and minors are hard to monitor as they can easily use fake ages. AW has the 'ratings' for each world, but putting a world 'x' rated seems to actually attract minors ( Crystal Wind: (not disuade them). Is AW ever going to do something to better enforce its own rating system and ensure that the underage are not permitted on 'x' rated worlds? Crystal Wind: <end> Jarl Mongo: ! Flagg: We have discussed better parental systems to protect minors from adult content. Flagg: However, implementing something the minors can not get around is difficult... They are very clever these days :-) Karten: *chuckles* the better hackers are usually undrage Crystal Wind: most minors dont have credit cards Crystal Wind: just a suggestion <end> Flagg: There are also many legal considerationsto take in effect. Flagg: If we decided to create a better parental system. VaLence: (or in the military) Flagg: Until we have a better system it is up to the world owner to ensure that he knows who is in there world Flagg: And they are ultimately responsible for that. Xandar: <nods> Karten: true VaLence: lol k VaLence: :-| Flagg: You can get more info on our world polocies by going to the Content Guidelines page located at http://www.activeworlds.com/terms.html Flagg: This is different from the conduct guidelines page Flagg: end Crystal Wind: thank you Flagg Ubar Luther: ayana? ayana SssS: thank you Ubar : ) ayana SssS: Other than the codes of conduct listed on the web site<for all ppl who come to AW> are the "volunteers" held to any other standards like the Gks and PKs <theirs are stricter> ayana SssS: and is there a monitoring component of the volunteer? Do they have a TL<team leader>? ayana SssS: ETL? Etc… who follows and mentors/assists with them? If there is a code of conduct or hierarchy of TLs and ETLs may we have a copy of it? Thank you end Flagg: Ok... well each team has it's leaders... some more than others Flagg: m0e is incharge of the PK group and he has many core members below him. The GK are run by MountainMyst and she has Team Leaders to help her. And as you all already know Daphne is incharge of CitBingo on Fridays ayana SssS: i am sorry perhaps i was not clear :) i mean for non Pks and GKs ... ppl like Daphne and other volunteers in AW Flagg: These volunteers are responsible for the people under them in there groups and are the ones we go to, usually, when there is a problem Flagg: I am usually the direct contact for both the PK's and CitBingo. I also handle some aspects of working with the GK's, but that is mostly done by Lucrezia ayana SssS: thank you :) i appreciate your sharing :) Crystal Wind: ? Flagg: Any problems you have with one of those groups can be handled by the lead volunteers or you can contact AWCOM via abuse or me directly. Flagg: Did that answer your ? ayana? ayana SssS: yes it does thank you :) Ubar Luther: Xandar? Flagg: end :-) Xandar: ty Luther,,,, Xandar: I'd like to just step back for a moment about reporting abuses,,,,I think the problem is that because it is people that volunteer for AW (thusly being deemed "representatives of AW", wrong or right), that those being discriminated against feel their Xandar: complaints will just be ignored,,,,for that reason, many do not report abuses/discrimination,,,, Xandar: I am thrilled to hear there are PK's such as Seanchan, and hope there truely are more like him,,,,but from what we've heard tonight, there are those that will turn their heads when it's a "Gorean Issue",,,, Immigration Officer: Truth would like to join you. Type 'y' to accept this request, or 'n' to reject it. Xandar: I wonder if there isn't some way that we can be assured our voices will also be heard Xandar: <end> Flagg: Well the issue was raised earlier about us not answering e-mail. Flagg: And Seanchan was very correct that with the amount that comes in that some do get lost. avatara BTH: ! Flagg: Also do to technically issues (Some just this weekend) we may not recieve a e-mail that was sent to us Xandar: it's not just about email's Flagg,,,,it's about the team leaders of GK's not listening to complaints about people "under" them either Flagg: I'm getting to that :) Xandar: that puts out a very strong message that AW just doesn't care (whether that is intended or not) Flagg: The fact is that we do care and if you don't e-mail AWCOM for yourself you won't know VaLence: ? Xandar: so we should surpass the PK's and GK's completely? Xandar: what's the point in having them then? Flagg: If you find they are not helping you absolutly Truth: ? Xandar: and one more question,,,, Flagg: It is very rare that someone does not get the help they need from the PK's or GK's Xandar: how many times must a PK or GK be complained about before something is done? (just out of curiousity) Flagg: They both do a great job, but when they fall short AWCOM is the one to come to Flagg: once Flagg: If I get a complaint via e-mail the first thing I do is send it to m0e or whoever and ask for the all the info they have on it. Xandar: <smiles> let me rephrase that,,,,before they are removed for going against the very conduct guidelines they are supposed to uphold? Flagg: Then once we have all the info we make a determination if something was done wrong and what needs to be done about it Flagg: And in some cases the PK's have done nothing wrong and we express our support for them to the user or we go to the PK's and explain to them what was wrong with the situaion Xandar: yes I'm sure there are plenty of instances when they have NOT been at fault, and I didn't mean to imply they always were Flagg: If a PK does something wrong then they get a warning if it continues they don't get to be a PK anymore Flagg: there are small exceptions, but not many Flagg: end Xandar: so two strikes, they're out? LOL Karten: (taking over for Luther) Katreena? Flagg: pretty much Karten: ack Xandar: I would like a little more positive response, Flagg Katreena: Seems I'm a bit confused (go figure) Xandar: how many times may a PK or GK discrimate (clearly) against a Gorean,,,,or ANY other human being, and get sent out the door? Katreena: *holds* Flagg: Ok... well I hope you understand, but this we be last time I will answer this type of quesiton sense it is getting late. Xandar: I'm sorry, but I don't accept "if it continues" or "pretty much" as definative answers Flagg: Activeworlds does not discrimate. If are volenteers are found to be discrimintating then we will warn them. Crystal Wind: We seem to have lost Ubar .. Does anyone have the cue? Karten: i am Crystal Wind: =)` Flagg: If they don't stop after there warning then they can not be allowed to vollenteer in that capacity any more. VaLence: *understood* Flagg: end Xandar: okay, that is a more definite answer, and I appreciate it Xandar: <end> Karten: Katreena? Katreena: ya'll saw that confused looke up there yes? Katreena: just would like to say that Gor gives as good as it gets….. not a personal fan of bingo myself (check back with me tho' in about 10 years or so) Xandar: LOL Truth: *smiles quietly* Katreena: … but I will tell you this…… any that I met there would find me pleasant *G *….. and those that did not soon would….. it's all a matter of perception folks….. and the way you present yourself Katreena: those most outspoken here tonight are usually the ones that cause turmoil "inworlds" as well (with the exception of the toothy grinned one and my own dear First Sword) Katreena: …… why do you suppose that happens? Serpent: *Chuckle* Xandar: <hmmm> Katreena: I guess this should have been a question afterall Katreena: Seems this is a question about getting answers….. so perhaps this is finally solved Katreena: end Xandar: <doesn't go to the other worlds> Crystal Wind: She is prolly talking about me Master Xandar =)` Katreena: comments for on the last.... perhaps you should VaLence: lol Karten: Mongo? Crystal Wind: ~giggles~ Karten: gone Crystal? Crystal Wind: hmm? VaLence: no that lol was for Katreena Crystal Wind: not yet Im in cue somewhere Karten: your turn now Crystal Crystal Wind: oh ok thanks Karten Crystal Wind: You called Mongo? Karten: *smiles and nods* Karten: he is not here Crystal Wind: On what Master Xandar said, I think its true many are not reporting abuse because they feel it will do no good .. I also just wanted to remind people to volunteer to help too as has been said aw is trying to do more in this area and involve more peop Crystal Wind: people .. you have to send an email and resend it if you get no response. I have not got help from PK Flagg but again that is chain of command and I personally think we should use it and if it doesnt work report it to AW .. only way to get the heat Crystal Wind: on them (the PK or core) so to speak Crystal Wind: What is wild aw rating -- Another problem the Gorean community faces is that when we wish to meet as a group, we have difficulty finding a world large enough to accomodate such a meeting and opt for out of the way places on AW. Crystal Wind: However, the coords of our meetings could come into the hands of those who are hostile to us or even minors. Has AW ever considered opening an 'x' rated or adult world of its own where adult activities/subjects would be permitted Crystal Wind: and enforce age restrictions and its policies against the harassment of people of our community? Crystal Wind: <end> Flagg: No we have not really Truth: *listens* Flagg: Our software is available for someone who wants to start one of there own, but we do have intenions of creating a adult only community at this time Crystal Wind: you do? Crystal Wind: ~verifying~ Flagg: whoops Karten: *grins* Flagg: Do = DO NOT Crystal Wind: ~hopes dashed~ Crystal Wind: thank you Flagg Flagg: Thank you for caching that :-) Crystal Wind: np Flagg: As for WildAW Flagg: I am not sure if the rating is R or X, but you could have your meetings there if you wanted too Crystal Wind: =)` Xandar: <am about 99.9% sure it's rated R> Truth: ??? Flagg: The intent of that world is create a unmoderated enviroment where people can go to talk and not feel we are restricting there right to free speach Sarishia: WildAw is not a good world, simply because too many kids go there.... Sarishia: we dont need to expose them to anything gorean kristianna Xan: <agreed> Flagg: I would recommend for your own privacy that you use one of the world in your communtity but that is entirely up to you Xandar: <shakes head> Flagg: end Karten: (three more in queue, to end this meeting) avatara? avatara BTH: There is another issue that hasn't been raised here, but is probably causing more damage and prejudice against Goreans than anything else. There are some citizens in AW who spend their time going from world to world talking about how horrible the Crystal Wind: will you give us one large enough Flagg ~serious look~ Crystal Wind: sorry avatara avatara BTH: Goreans are, spreading rumors about world show accept children and interact with them. One in particular has been active as recently as this last week. In the case of this person, he has a site on AW where he posts signs regarding supposed Gorean be Flagg: probably not at this time Crystal Wind: ;) avatara BTH: behavior. I understand he has been warned in the past to stop opening harrassing in that way, but now he is going into worlds where he knows Goreans are disliked and inciting anger against us. What is the recourse we can take when this kind of thing avatara BTH: happens? do we follow the same complaint procedure? Flagg: There is not much you can do unless this person is harrasing you directly. Going world to world expressing there opinions even if they are wrong is not a breech in the guidelings avatara BTH: its not a matter of expressing opinions Flagg: And if it is a public world it is up to the world owner wheather or not they want to hear this persons opinions avatara BTH: this person told people that his younger brother accessed his computer and was taken in by a male Master avatara BTH: he was maliciously lying avatara BTH: it was found that he was lying..but it didn't stop the anger of the group he spoke with against us avatara BTH: opinions are one thing...this kidn of behavior is downright wrong and intentionally malicious Xandar: <thinks that is more a "Gorean" issue, than an AW one,,,,they can't control that> avatara BTH: he is an AW citizen avatara BTH: not a Gorean Xandar: may I please respond? avatara BTH: <listens> Flagg: Well just like people who like Gor can talk about it in groups Karten: yes Xandar Flagg: People who don't can do the same Xandar: ty Karten Flagg: There is nothing we can do about that unless they are harrassing you directly Flagg: end avatara BTH: hmm..okay so we have to deal with the wildfires everyone else sets as well. Thank you <end Xandar: avatara,,,,it is a problem, and it is bound to happen,,,,,but it is our duty as Goreans to deal with such matters,,,,ie, pass the lil buggars cit# around and disallow his entry into our communities, etc,,,,but really AW can do nothing about a person Xandar: voicing his opinion, right or wrong avatara BTH: oh we passed it alright Xandar: as Crystal said earlier, Goreans have a responsibility here too Xandar: I have not gotten it avatara BTH: avatara will see that you do Master <smiles>< BodhiTah: wrong Xandar they can lock him out Karten: two left in the queue lets please finish up Seanchan: ! (adds a quickie) Xandar: yes, and soon as I have his cit# he will be locked out of my world bodhiTah Xandar: BodhiTah Flagg: one quick note on this Xandar: as I do all KNOWN minors VaLence: ? retracted Karten: *nods* Xandar: sorry <end> Flagg: As you travel Activeworlds you find many people have poor opinions about AW as well and most of what they say is not true Flagg: end Karten: Truth is last August Bear: <smile> Karten: Truth? Truth: *smiles quietly* First, Flagg, I'd like to thankyou, for holding this question answer thing for us Truth: next, in reference to Wild Aw Truth: We spent alot of time, trying to keep the coords to a part of a Fair we had there a secret Truth: had they been found out Seanchan: let's not forget my ! too Truth: the harassment would have happened Truth: My question then is Truth: how , can an unmoderated world such as Wild Aw be a safe place for us to hold Large affairs? Truth: End. Flagg: It is not a safe place Flagg: No public world is Katreena: *smiles* Truth: *nods* Flagg: But, it is a public world where you can discuss adult issues Xandar: <nods> Flagg: end Karten: final comment from Seanchan Seanchan: thank you Seanchan: I just wanted to speak briefly concerning a Gorean world large enough to hold large events... GorWorld is a CX4 world, capable of holding up to 80 people at one time... since most Gorean events do not exceed 80 people at once.... VaLence: *sighs* Xandar: <wows> Truth: *nods quietly in agreement* Seanchan: it can host most large events and as world owner, I welcome anyone asking to host events there Seanchan: end Karten: Flagg any final from you? Flagg: I just want to thank everyone for taking the time out to express there concerns to better the growing community. Flagg: And remind you that you can contact me at [email protected] Flagg: Thanks again and Good Night! :-) Karten: thank you Tom/Flagg for hearing us and thanks to everyone for coming and speaking and/or listening Crystal Wind: thank you Tom muchly =)` Xandar: ty Flagg kristianna Xan: Flagg this girl wishes you well and thanks you for your time.. very glad that you wore such strong armor tonight and were so understanding! <grins> Seanchan: Good night :) SophiA Deer: Thank you Flagg... Xandar: mostly for putting up with me Xandar: LOL Truth: *smiles her thanks* Seether: Thankyou Flagg VaLence: Goodnight, Flagg. Thank you for your time. SophiA Deer: are you the same Flagg from The Stand? lysandra VL: thank You Flagg ~smiles~ SophiA Deer: lol Sarishia: thank you Flagg :) Truth: *thinks the stand was a fantastic movie* SophiA Deer: Thank you again for your time kristianna Xan: <grins> from the david eddings series SophiA Deer: Randall Flagg was the Devil I thinnk in there Seanchan: yes, the walkin dude Truth: Crystal Wind...Thankyou, for what you have helped to accomplish here Seanchan: I have The Stand on VHS and DVD Truth: I know, it caused you alot of grief in grams and such. VaLence: oh no.. Sophia *shakes head* geeeez SophiA Deer: lol VaLence: lol SophiA Deer: well I am going to go play Bingo..but I use a non Gorean account LOL Crystal Wind: You are welcome Truth .. could not have done it without Ubar though .. He deserves most the kadoos .. I have been thanking him all night in grams SophiA Deer: Hugs and be well all SophiA Deer: waves Karten: *waves to all and departs* Crystal Wind: ~has to run to duties~ I wish all well Seether: Safe Journeys Goreans ~s~ fiery KNfg: fiery wishes All Masters, Mistresses and slave well Seether: "You may judge and scorn Goreans if you wish. Know as well, however, that they will judge and scorn you. They fulfill themselves as you do not. Hate them for their pride and power. They will pity you for your shame and weakness." Beasts pg11 Truth: Be well Crystal
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