Frequently Asked Questions
1)  Why did children of Elrond get to choose whether to be counted among Elves or Men, while children of Elros did not?

2)  What were the physical differences between the three Elven races?

3)  Why didn't Elrond force Isildur to destroy the Ring?


4)  What are Eight Great Reasons to Love Caranthir, or why is Caranthir one of Hellga's favorite Elves?

5)  Why is it wrong to have the Elves of L�rien speak Quenya?
Why did children of Elrond get to choose whether to be counted among Elves or Men, while children of Elros did not?

When E�rendil came to Valinor, Valar didn't know how to judge him - as a Noldo (who were forbidden to return to Valinor) or as a Man (who were also forbidden to enter Valinor). Eventually they decided not to punish him, but in the process of deliberations they made a decision that every child of Elven/Human marriage will be human (that's why Lords of Dol Amroth were merely human, all of them, including son of Imraz�r (a man of Numenor) and Mithrellas (an Elf of L�rien)). The mixed children that were in existence at the time of the ruling (Earendil, Elwing, Elrond, Elros) were given a choice. Earendil, Elwing and Elrond chose to be Elves. Elros chose to be human.

To quote the relevant passage from
The Lost Road:

                  Now the Gods took counsel concerning E�rendel, and they summoned Ulmo from
                  the deeps; and when they were gathered together Mandos spoke, saying: 'Now he
                  shall surely die, for he has trodden the forbidden shores.'  But Ulmo said: 'For this
                  he was born into the world.   And say unto me: whether is he E�rendel Tuor's son
                  of the line of Hador, or Idril's son Turgon's daughter of the Elven-house of Finw�?
                  Or being half of either kindred, which half shall die?'  And Mandos answered:
                  'Equally was it forbidden to the Noldor that went willfully into exile to return hither."

                  Then Manw� gave judgement and he said: 'To E�rendel I remit the ban, and the peril
                   that he took upon himself out of love for the Two Kindreds shall not fall on him;
                   neither shall it fall upon Elwing who entered into peril for love of E�rendel: save only
                   this: they shall not ever walk again among Elves or Men in the Outer Lands.
Now all
                   those who have the blood of mortal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are
                   mortal, unless other doom be granted to them
; but in this matter the power of
                   doom is given to me.  This is my decree:  to E�rendel and to Elwing and to their sons
                   shall be given leave each to chose freely under which kindred they shall be judged.'

That was background. Now let's discuss the two branches of the family.

Elros chose to be human, his wife too, and all of his descendants were merely mortals - mortal dad, mortal mom - simple.

The problem was with children of Elrond. He was legally an Elf, but had Mortal blood. He married Celebrian, who was fully and completely an Elf. Their children, thus, were legally 100% Elves, but technically had human blood. Being born after the decree of the Valar, they had to be considered as humans. Hence the conflict - mom and dad are Elves, but human blood present. The Valar solved the problem by letting Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen make their own choice. Arwen chose to be human, and her children with Aragorn were all fully and inescapably human. The choices of Elladan and Elrohir are unknown - they stayed in Middle-earth delaying their choice. If they were to become mortals and marry mortal women - their descendants would be mortal; if they were to become Elves, their descendants would be Elves and have to make their own choice.

Sources: The Lost Road, History of Middle-earth V
                Letter #153, to Peter Hastings, The Letters
Back to the top
What were the physical differences between the three Elven races?

1. Vanyar. "Vanyar" means "beautiful ones." They are the most beautiful of the Elves, and smallest in number. They are of average build, all golden haired and blue eyed (though there are hundreds of shades of blue and golden possible, as we are all aware). Also, have tendency to look dreamy, because they have less to do with this material world than others. They do not create material things, they create poetry, philosophy. Of practical things, they like gardening. They are the least affected by the Dissonance in the Third Theme, they all went to Valinor precisely because they felt the marring of Arda most acutely. They do not worry about time or power, or the like.

2. Noldor. More numerous than Vanyar. The most human-like of the Elves. They are the tallest and physically of heavier build and greater strength. While they are all grey-eyed (though many shades are possible, and Vanyarin blood allows for greyish-blue colors), human-likeness results in greater diversity of haircolor: while the majority are dark-brown or black haired, some have reddish-brown hair (Mahtan & many of his descendants) and silver (Miriel mother of Feanor, who was pure blooded Nolde of the Firstborn). From what we know, Finwe and Caranthir had exceptionally black hair. Mahtan, Nerdhanel, Maedhros, Amrod and Amras had reddish-brown hair. Miriel is the only known silver-haired one. House of Finarfin had golden hair due to Vanyarin blood from Indis. House of Fingolfin were black haired (Idril had golden hair from her Vanyarin mother Elenwe). Noldor delighted in working with metals and stones, they liked material things and inventing and science. "Noldor" means "wise ones."

3. Teleri
By far the most numerous of Elves. Usually of slender build and shorter than other Quendi (especially Moriquendi, those who did not go to Aman). Vast majority dark-haired (though jet-black hair which occured often among Noldor was rarer among them), but Elwe and his close relatives had silver hair, while Thranduil had golden hair (and he was kin of Elwe too). They were grey eyed also. Teleri liked working with wood, silver, and being around water. While others called them Teleri, they preferred name "Lindar" - "singing ones".

These are the three races of the Elves. The Teleri later became separated into many different groups. Vanyar all stuck together, and only very small number of Noldor chose to be among Avari.

Also, Elves of Aman tended to have whiter, paler complexion than Sindar or Nandor, while Avari were no different from regular humans of European descent. The notable exception would be ruddy complexion of Mahtan, Nerdanel and Caranthir.

Sources
: The Silmarillion
               The History of Middle-earth
Back to the top
Why didn't Elrond force Isildur to destroy the Ring?

There are plenty of versions.  Here are some I can think of right now.

1) Elrond and Cirdan did not really know the power of the Ring and the link between Sauron and the Ring. The Istari were not in Middle Earth yet, so no one would advise them. Nor did they know of its corrupting power - there has been no precedent. Yet. It is easy to judge for you, now that you know everything that happened later. You forget they did not know any of that back then.  Elrond just got his own ring from Gil-galad, moments before Isildur cut off the One Ring from Sauron's hand, and probably couldn't feel anything at the moment.

2) Elrond and Cirdan wanted to keep the spirit of the ages past, which would be impossible without the power of the rings. After all, Sauron and Elves were quite similar - they wanted to keep everything in order, jsut they couldn't agree on what they understood as that desired order and who should be in charge.

3) Elves are innately good creatures. They will NOT kill just to save their hides. Besides, Elrond knew that Isildur will understand the power of the Ring and bring it to him - Isildur was going to Imladris to ask for Elrond's help when he was ambushed in Gladden Fields - no one could have expected that victorious Numenorean soldiers will be defeated by filthy orcs - and they did not expect that so many of the Orcs survived.

4) Imagine yourself in Elrond's place. Here you have the last survivor of the line of you dearly beloved twin brother who chose the way of Mortal Men. Will you be able to kill him, especially considering that Elves are good creatures?

5) What would Cirdan and Elrond tell victorious and numerous Numenorean army about suspicious sudden disappearance of their King? I doubt they were eager to start the war between Men and Elves..

6) Don't forget that taking Isildur to the Cracks of Doom is Mr. Jackson's invention. Isildur refused to go with Elrond in the books, staying near his dead father's body. That made the task nearly impossible - see punkt 5.
Back to the top
What are Eight Great Reasons to Love Caranthir?

1) Made alliance with the Dwarves
2) Became very rich
3) Was the first to notice the use of Men in combat
4) Saved Haleth's people from a hopeless situation
5) He was faithful - he never strayed from the Oath he swore, seeking out the Silmarils until his untimely death
6) Granted People of Haleth passage and staying time in Thargelion
7) Fortified Amon Ereb and kept watch, and so guarded Ossiriand
8) (Bonus) - Rosy complexion
Back to the top
Why is it wrong to have the Elves of L�rien speak Quenya?

1) Languages grew apart during the years of separations. Nandorin & Quenya were different (especially Quenya Vanyarinva)

2) Noldor returning to Middle Earth found out that it was a lot easier for them to learn Sindarin that it was for SIndar to learn Quenya. Besides, Sindar were majority. So Sindarin, not Quenya became the dominant language

3) No Noldor crossed the Ered Luin before the War of Wrath (except for Galadriel according to one of contradicting versions in UT)

4) Quenya Noldorinva was outlawed by Elu Thingol, King of Doritath after he has learned about the Kinslaying of Alqualonde. Celeborn was a close kin of Thingol (grandson of Elmo, Elu's younger brother) - we would not go to versions describing him as a Teler from Alqualonde (though that would explain his dislike for Quenya Noldorinva too - Telerin was a separate language). There would be no reason for him to teach Nandor of Lorien Quenya.

5) Books say explicitly that in Third Age Quenya was basically a dead language in Middle Earth, and Sindarin was the spoken langauge.

Sources: The Lord of the Rings
                The Unfinished Tales
                The History of Middle-earth

For more information on languages, see the essay
"Use of Elven Languages in Fanfiction"
Back to the top
Do you have a question about anything Tolkien that you always wanted to ask?
Reply within three days guaranteeed (I will e-mail it to you and post it here)
Your name:
Your e-mail:
Return to Hellga's Essays
Return to Hellga's Homepage
Page last updated on Tuesday, 01-Jun-04 20:08:05 PDT
Hosted by www.Geocities.ws

1