Creative Loafing Interview

Creative Loafing Online
An Interview with Ace Frehley

Your parents hated them, your friend's asshole older brother made fun of them, mainstream magazines didn't take them seriously and you didn't hear them on the radio too much, but Kiss connected with millions of fans with their simple, classic songs and their over-the-top blood and fire concerts.

Then, after Peter Criss left in 1980, and Ace Frehley two years later, the makeup came off and a lot of us just grew up. Although some people stuck with Kiss through the '80s and early '90s, for many the magic was simply gone. Fifteen years later, as original members Ace, Gene, Paul and Peter re-create those monumental shows and remind you just why you dedicated way too much of your free time listening to, reading about, dressing like and trying to be Kiss, the Kiss Army will rejoice and cynics will continue to bash.

Here's Kiss' story as told by Ace:

CL: How were you approached by the other guys to do this? Was it out of the blue or had it been discussed before?

AF: After the [MTV] "Unplugged" thing went so well, I guess Paul and Gene started thinking about it and they approached my manager.

CL: Were you at all hesitant about hitting the road again on such a big scale?

AF: I had a gut feeling that it was going to happen at some point. But putting off my album was the only drawback. I was glad it happened, over all. You know, what's more important, an Ace Frehley solo album or a Kiss reunion? [laughs]

CL: When you guys first got back together, did you all agree not to do any material past 1978?

AF: We basically decided that if we were going to do a reunion and we were going to wear the makeup, we should do the best of the classic stuff, 'cause that's what we played when we wore the makeup. We'll do stuff from the first six or seven albums, except we'll do "Back In The New York Groove" [from Ace's first solo album].

CL: Have you been writing a lot? You were always like the George Harrison of Kiss: You only got one song on each record but they were always great.

AF: Yeah, two toward the end.

CL: Are there still some open wounds between you and the guys or has time healed everything?

AF: We have group encounter sessions. We let it all hang out and everyone says what's on their mind. We went past all the bullshit. We decided that it was childish, we had all grown up and changed. All that other stuff was ancient history. There are no grudges at this point; we're all four out there putting in a hundred and ten percent. We're all doing interviews -- I never used to do interviews, I always had a hangover in the morning! [laughs] Things change.

CL: When did tensions start to build in the group?

AF: I think after we all became millionaires is when we started going our own ways. Gene started thinking about a movie career. I think the more money me and Peter got, the wilder we got and the faster cars we got and crazy things started happening. We all dealt with our demons in our own ways the best we could. In some ways it was too much too soon, and I'm really thankful that I got a second chance to do it all over again. You know, do it sober and enjoy it more and also get vicarious pleasure out of seeing my daughter watch the show.

CL: So was there a last straw that made you decide to bow out?

AF: I was unhappy with a lot of different things. But I think The Elder [1981] was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I remember getting a cassette copy of it and listening to it and smashing it against the wall because a lot of my solos had been edited out and I wasn't really happy overall with the album. I mean, I don't think it's a bad album musically, I just don't think it's a good Kiss album.

CL: So how did you feel about Kiss carrying on after you left? The guys they replaced you with played very differently than you.

AF: I didn't really know Vinnie Vincent; I only met him once. Mark St. John I never met. Me and Bruce [Kulick], there's no animosity there.

CL: Can you describe the stage show? I saw you in 1979 and it was pretty incredible then.

AF: It's basically a similar show, but bigger and better. There's video now -- four or five video screens, which we never had. The lighting show is so much more intense, because back in the '70s they didn't have computerized lighting or those big spotlights that move around and change color.

CL: How did it feel at the first show in Detroit when you walked out on stage?

AF: There were some butterflies! But I was very confident. We had rehearsed for a good four or five months. At one point we were rehearsing seven days a week on top of working out with trainers to get in physical shape. This is a very physically taxing tour. We went to the gym five, six days a week with a trainer. I've dropped some weight; I'm probably in better physical shape than I was in the late '70s. I'm down to about 168 pounds at 6 foot 2. I'm thinner now than I was when I was wearing the costume that I'm wearing!

CL: How did you feel when you first heard the roar of people who have waited for that moment for 15 years?

AF: I've got to tell you, Kiss fans are the most dedicated fans I've ever experienced. I think it's because we're such an extreme group in what we do, you either love us or hate us. If you love us it's intense!

CL: O.K., let's go back to the beginning. Had you known Gene and Paul long, before you joined the band?

AF: No, basically I was the last one to join. I was playing with ... I can't remember what band I was playing with before Kiss. ... I glanced at an ad in the Village Voice, went and auditioned and, ironically, when I walked in to audition, Bob Kulick, who's Bruce's brother [and guitarist in the new Kiss lineup], had just finished auditioning, which is kind of crazy! Obviously I beat him out, but we've become friends over the years.

CL: Did the others have the concept down or is that something that you all came up with?

AF: We all developed the concept together. The only concept that we all agreed on in the beginning is that we wanted to be a theatrical rock group and wear makeup. We didn't know how we were going to look and we all drew from within ourselves, our alter egos. I was always into astronomy and science fiction, so I developed the spaceman character. Gene has always been fascinated with horror films and stuff like that, so he became a ... vampire or whatever you want to call it!

CL: How were the special effects with the early shows? Did you start doing that stuff right away when you were playing clubs?

AF: Yeah, obviously not to the point we are now because we couldn't afford it. We always used flashpots, even when we were playing bars.

CL: How did crowds react? There were some precedents, like Alice Cooper, but were your crowds pretty friendly in the first year or so?

AF: There were times when we walked and people just looked at us like, "What the fuck are these guys?" By the end of the night we always won them over.

CL: It seemed that you guys went from playing clubs to huge places fairly fast, like a matter of two or three years. When did you notice that a phenomenon was developing, a culture was springing up around the band?

AF: It really seemed to kick in after the first live album [Kiss Alive, 1975]. Until then we had three albums out and none of them went gold. The live album, our fourth, was the one that really did it for us. We were still in debt up to Dressed To Kill. When the live album was such a big success, we booked an arena tour, and things really started to move for us at that point.

CL: How do you feel about the way a lot of critics have handled Kiss?

AF: It's ironic. A lot of critics hated us in the '70s; now it's a little more accepted.

CL: We all grew up! Some of the fans that defended you then are critics now!

AF: We still get some shitty press. I guess there are some Deadhead reviewers who still despise Kiss and what we stand for. But, you know, you're never going to get one hundred percent.

CL: Looking back on the time when you were in Kiss, what is your favorite album?

AF: The first album [Kiss, 1974] is still my favorite. That one and maybe Alive .

CL: What is your favorite Kiss song?

AF: "Deuce." I like the driving rhythm and the riff, and it's special to me because it's the first Kiss song I ever heard. When I went to audition, that was the first song they ever played for me. They said, "Here's a song we wrote, try to play along with it. We'll play it for you once and you jump in." I just started riffing away. ... The songs have definitely stood the test of time. Paul and Gene have written a lot of classic songs; I've written a couple. ... Good rock and roll is good rock and roll, be it the Beatles, the Stones, early Kiss, whatever.

CL: How long is this tour expected to go? I've heard that there are plans to go for like another year.

AF: I would say yeah, at least another year. We've gotta cover the whole world, and we're coming back to the States 'cause we're in such high demand. Some of the shows sold out so quickly that we decided to come back to some of the markets we've already played.

CL: Do you find that you're technically a better player now than you were, and are you having to ... play down, for lack of a better term?

AF: I think I'm a technically better player now than I was. But I play the solos note for note. I think that's what the fans want to hear. In my opinion, changing a guitar solo is like changing a lyric. Once in a while, yeah, you can change a little thing here or there, but I try to hold true to the solos I wrote. They're classic and that's what the kids wanna hear. When I listen back to some of the solos I wrote years ago, I'm surprised! Like the solo in "100,000 Years," I would have never written a solo like that today, it's pretty out there, and it's not the easiest solo to play either, I'll tell ya!

CL: Are you doing a long solo somewhere in the set?

AF: Yeah, I do a pretty long guitar solo with smoke, my guitar flies, I shoot rockets and blow things up. It's pretty flipped out! It's at the end of "Shock Me."

CL: What kind of music do you listen to? Do you have a box of CDs or tapes that you take with you?

AF: To be honest with you, I don't listen to much music off the stage. During my spare time, I pull out my lap top and start screwing around with animation and morphing. I even did some morphing for the tour. At the end of "Black Diamond," there's a morphing of our four faces that I did on my Macintosh.

CL: I guess if the rock thing ever runs dry you could be a graphic artist.

AF: Well, I am a graphic artist. I studied art in school. Paul's a graphic artist too, and Gene's also a good artist. Art and music kind of go hand in hand, and you'll find that a lot of musicians can also draw or paint. It's that part of the brain, at least that's what I've found.

CL: You mentioned earlier that you're doing this tour totally sober. How long has it been?

AF: It's been a few years.

CL: Is it a big switch when you think back to the last tours with Kiss?

AF: Yeah, but a lot of that was fun. I used to drink a couple of bottles of champagne a day or a case of beer. I was a wild and crazy kid, and luckily I got that out of my system. I don't really regret a lot of the things I've done. I think you've got to get it out of your system and sow your wild oats, so basically that's what I did. Now I've got a different agenda in life -- I have a daughter to raise, I have to be a role model and I'm involved with other things. I'm a computer junkie. [My] laptop will record stereo-CD quality sounds, so if I've got a song idea, I can just throw it directly on the hard drive. Plus with the advent of the format of DVD, digital video disc, you'll have movies coming out on a disc the size of a CD.
CL: You guys can put out Kiss Meets The Phantom!

AF: Damn straight!