Guitar World 1997 Interview

By Jeff Kitts
�1997 Guitar World

It was just over three years ago that Ace Frehley found himself on the receiving end of a vicious slap in the face. But it wasn't the sting of the blow that hurt the guitarist so much as who delivered it: Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, his former Kiss bandmates. It was May, 1993, and Kiss had been invited to commemorate the band's 20th anniversary by immortalizing their handprints in wet cement, along Hollywood's Rock Walk of Fame. Taking part in the ceremony were Simmons, Stanley and longtime Kiss guitarist Bruce Kulick-but not Ace or original drummer Peter Criss. Frehley was back in New York City, at Guitar World's executive offices, speculating to a rapt audience as to why he was so pointedly snubbed by his old bandmates.

"It doesn't surprise me that they don't want me there," Frehley said that afternoon [Guitar World, Aug. '93]. "But they're only hurting themselves. I have fans constantly telling me that they've lost all respect for Paul and Gene because of the way they've been treating me lately. It only makes me realize how much I made the right choice when I left the band 10 years ago." What a difference a few years makes.

After years of public feuding, Ace and original drummer Peter Criss finally reunited with Paul and Gene last August for a taping of MTV's Unplugged, which led to a full-fledged reunion. Beginning with an explosive concert before 35,000 emotionally charged Kiss fanatics last June 28 at Detroit's Tiger Stadium, the four original members of Kiss have hit the road for the first time in 17 years. Their massive world tour comes complete with all the makeup, smoke bombs, flashpots and confetti storms that were signatures of their Seventies heyday.

"We're doing this now because everybody is of like mind, heart and spirit-and ready mentally and physically to do it," says Gene Simmons. "The time when we really thought that this was an interesting possibility was when I was able to look into Peter's and Ace's eyes at around the time of Unplugged and think, 'Wow! Everybody really seems reborn.' "

GUITAR WORLD: (To Gene and Paul) When did the possibility of a reunion with Ace and Peter first enter your minds?

PAUL STANLEY: Ten or 15 years ago, a reunion was absolutely out of the question. But with the passage of time, what was once "absolutely out of the question" became, "Well, you never can tell."

GENE SIMMONS: The time is right to do something like this when you're mentally and physically ready. There's no such thing as the "right time" for the champion to step into the ring. The time for the champ to step into the ring and regain his title is when he is ready in mind and body. A lot of people think that we're doing this for the money, but-even though everyone will be paid very well-we don't need the money.

GW: Up until fairly recently, quite a war of words went on in the press between Ace, and Gene and Paul. Looking back, did that help clear the air between you?

STANLEY: No. That whole thing was people being privy to a family fight.

GW: Arguing, however, can be therapeutic.

STANLEY: During the rehearsals before the tour, at least once a week, we'd clear the room of all the guys who worked for us and talk about whatever was bothering us about each other. It's much healthier than letting that stuff fester and start to build. And a week didn't go by that the shit didn't hit the fan.

ACE FREHLEY: We used to make a practice of that in the early days, but once everyone became millionaires and bought mansions and fancy cars, those meetings got further and further apart. After a while, the only time I'd see the guys was on stage. Everybody deals with money and fame differently; for me, it might have been too much, too soon. I might have been too young, too immature.

PETER CRISS: I've made a lot of mistakes over the years, and I think that if you don't learn from your mistakes, you'll never get better with yourself and the people around you. I'm glad I did a lot of the things I did; otherwise I wouldn't have been able to reach both the highs and the lows in my life. I did hit a lot of lows, and I sure appreciate the highs now.

FREHLEY: When I first got to the rehearsals, I came in wanting to play these old songs relatively note-for-note. I'd been playing these songs for years, and I was playing them maybe 60 or 70% correct. And Gene and Paul had to tell me, "C'mon-either shit or get off the pot, Ace. Let's get these right."

SIMMONS: Let's be honest. Ace Frehley has influenced more guitar players than almost anybody around. That's fact. So when we first got together again, we told Ace, "You've got to be great. But you've got to be better than great. You've got to be as good as you were, and better." Because Ace owes something to every one of those guys who picked up a guitar because of him and whose lives were directly changed by his. Ace owes it to them to be every bit as good as they expect him to be. Imagine him stepping up on stage and his fans being disappointed in the man who changed their lives. That's unacceptable.

STANLEY: Our concern early on was that our past cast this huge shadow, and we had the capability of living up to it because that shadow is us. But if we were going to go out there and tarnish or desecrate the road that we paved or the legend that we left, then we should just stay home. If this was going to end up something that either we or our fans would later regret, then the past should be left alone.

GW: Do you think the success of this tour in any way implies that there is an element of showmanship or entertainment that's missing in rock today?

STANLEY: I think that when people start to believe that showmanship is the antithesis of integrity, it's absolute bullshit. An audience wants both. I think the vast majority of the people who come to see us want to hear our songs and, on top of it, want to see the greatest show on earth. We know that the songs stand up on their own-we proved that with Unplugged. But this is different. This is about spectacle. It's about sensory assault. Once again, people are saying, "I've seen what's out there, I'm bored and I'm ready for Kiss."

SIMMONS: You can dazzle them with bullshit, but if you don't have the content, it's just style, and style without content is nothing. The truth is, right now live shows are in the pits. You pay more for the price of one ticket than you do for a CD, which will last you hundreds of hours. And I think people are finally getting up and saying, "Okay, give me something for the money I spent on this ticket." Kiss was born to be the band that we never saw on stage-we said that a long time ago, and it holds true today. People want to believe that there's more to life than the guy with the wrinkled shirt running around on stage screaming, "I'm miserable. I'm miserable. I'm gonna kill myself-now excuse me while I get off stage and hop into my Rolls-Royce."

STANLEY: Being miserable might work for your first album, but once you get your royalties, what are you gonna sing about on your second album? Then all you can do is blow your head off and become a legend.

SIMMONS: Once you become a millionaire, the wrinkled shirt you wear on stage is every bit as much a costume as the costumes we wear-except that we're clear about it and ours look much better. Hey, I understand-you're a garage band, you don't have a penny in your pocket and you dress like a bum because you can't afford better. Fine. But once you can afford better, I don't believe it. "I'm suicidal-I wanna kill myself." I don't buy it. Anyone out there who has a conscience about having too much money or too much fame, let me answer your prayers: Number one, move to Tibet because nobody will know who the fuck you are, and number two, if you feel you have too much money and can't live with it, write a personal check to Gene Simmons and I'll help you out. It'll make me happier and it'll make you happier because you won't have to deal with your conscience.

GW: Unlike other notable arena-rock bands, like, say, Rush, Pink Floyd and Yes, there almost seems to be a contradiction between Kiss' bombastic, over-the-top stage show and its somewhat simple music.

SIMMONS: That's an interesting point, but I don't agree. The perfect music for a July 4th fireworks show-and we like to think that Kiss has some of the same elements-would be something by John Phillip Sousa. No one would want to hear some kind of modern jazz or techno thing going on during a fireworks show. It would be too nervous, like someone tapping his foot to circus music. In a case like that, you'd want to hear something grand and big, yet simple and to the point.

GW: Paul, do you and Ace have specific roles in the band as guitarists?

STANLEY: I think my job is to hold down the fort. I consider myself a rhythm guitar player who holds his ground and keeps the groove in place. The old Kiss adage is "one big guitar"-except for the solos, there should be two people playing inversions that sound like one guitar. To me, rhythm is the heart and soul of rock and roll.

FREHLEY: When we play live, Paul usually handles the main rhythm and a lot of times I play an inverted part that's an octave above Paul. Even in the early days, I never wanted to play exactly what Paul was playing or in the same register-that's not the Kiss sound.
GW: Ace, did you ever record rhythm tracks?

FREHLEY: On some songs. We all did whatever we had to do for the good of the song. Paul would sometimes play lead or help me come up with a melody if I couldn't get it. Sometimes, if I wasn't there, somebody else would come in and play for me. [laughs] We got through it, no matter what we had to do.

SIMMONS: Ace sometimes played bass, too. He played bass on "2000 Man" and "Torpedo Girl." And I didn't always play bass. I played guitar on "Almost Human" and a few other songs. The idea here is that, even though it says Gene Simmons, bass; Paul Stanley, guitar; Ace Frehley, guitar and Peter Criss, drums, everybody does whatever has to be done because it's still called Kiss. We don't play the game of giving credit to every tambourine player and background vocalist. That's nonsense.

GW: Gene, you told me in a previous interview that "technical ability can be the enemy of rock and roll."

SIMMONS: Absolutely. It's like the comedian who stands up at a party and starts telling jokes and becomes a pain in the butt, or the guitar player who can really play well but isn't interested in melody, and would rather show people how many notes he can play in a second. It becomes as valid as the bee that's buzzing around your head that you just want to smack. Eric Clapton once said, "The hardest part is not to figure out what to put into a solo, but what to leave out."

STANLEY: Technical proficiency, when it's bought or studied at one of those guitar institutes, replaces the balls and heart of rock and roll with an intellectual perspective that neuters the essence of what rock and roll is.

FREHLEY: I play guitar in such an unorthodox way. I've never taken a guitar lesson. One of our assistants brought it to my attention a few months ago that sometimes, when I play chords, my thumb is on the fretted side of the neck. I have no idea why or how I do it, but I do.

SIMMONS: But we're not the only band in this category. Certainly there's the Stones, who are a living, breathing example of a band that isn't technically very proficient. But their songs have stood the test of time. A lot of studio guys can play circles around Keith [Richards], but who cares?