CLD on... Bathing, Water and Stress Coat®

Message 255

From: CRABLOVER DON <[email protected]>

Date: Mon Nov 1, 1999 6:58pm

Subject: EASY WATER...and answers for Julianne....and a note to Bruce

Hello All and Welcome Julianne:

Now to answer the question about EASY WATER! This product is being touted as a 'good thing' for hermit crabs... After doing some research and investigating I would NEVER use it! In my own opinion, it would do more harm than good. Hermit Crabs need dechlorinated water of the same standard as one would use in a fish tank. Due to their delicate respiratory system and gill function the dechlorinized water (free of minerals) is what is required for bathing and as a water source. The artificial source may retain moisture, but it cannot replace the need of the actual water. Crabs need to be able to get into their water source to drink and to bathe... this does not mean that misting and weekly baths are not necessary... but only that they need these elements for good health to stay hydrated.

As for the loss of Hermes... the loss of claw and legs as you described.... sounds very much like the classic symthoms of stress. This stress can be caused by bacterial growth brought on by the substrate being left to wet or damp. Usually caused by misting inside of a tank or the water dish being turned over and not attented to... Do you have a thermometer at substrate level to gauge the tank temp? What do you consider as the tank being too warm? Where do you have the tank placed in conjuction to windows, heater vents, etc?

Message 370

From: CRABLOVER DON <[email protected]>

Date: Sat Nov 13, 1999 9:07am

Subject: [Fwd: hi i have a hermit crab question...

Vanessa and others:

I believe I may have an answer to the question that you 'posed' about the 'mysterious film' in the water dish. It is probably the residue from the (traces of) oil that is used in many of the commercial crab foods. This oil is used since our guys need a bit of it in their diet...This DOES NOT mean to feed them extra oil....THAT could kill them! The oil also enhances the flavor of these foods. FMR, I know, does use/add some oil (soybean and coconut) in/to their Food, but not their Treat. Another 'culprit' could well be the 'oils' from the natural foods such as the coconut, etc. you feed your crabs.

This is why it is most/very important to clean out those water dishes and change out the old "drinking" water for fresh, clean water on a daily basis. Those little legs can 'pick up' lots of stuff from that food dish... then, they 'wade' through the water... get the pix? Just another good reason why a good, vigorous 'swimming' bath once or twice a week is very important!

These bathes can dislodge food and wastes often lodged within your little buddies shell. A minute or so of a good 'leg kickin' bath usually 'dislodges' any 'gunk'... traces of sand, bits of food, bodily wastes... making your little guys happy and well cleansed 'campers'! While it may seem LIKE a great idea to bathe your guys each dayor two, this is not necessary and can be harmful to their health. Too much bathing can strip away the natural'slime coating' that is necessary for the healthy gill functioning of your crab. Hope this helps and Happy Crabbing! CLD

Message 565

From: CRABLOVER DON <[email protected]>

Date: Wed Dec 1, 1999 8:01pm

Subject: Re: Noodle

Too much salt works against the stresscoat baths that HELP the Ecuadorian crabs. It can cause blisters around their ("E's") gills and cause major respiratory problems... from ulcerated gills... it is usually a slow and not too pleasant death from suffocation. Please ASK if you have questions BEFORE doing something like the baths.... for the health and well-being of your crabs. Hopefully, little or no harm has taken place, but please re-read all the posts about caring for the Ecuadorians. About one third of my guys are "E's" and are doing quite well... these guys are great, but they do require extra attention for good health and survival. CLD

--- CRABLOVER DON kritterlandusa@y... wrote:

Hi Melissa Ecuadorians DO NOT need salt baths at all. What you need to do is add a 'tad' of saline to their drinking water.... But do not bathe them... The Australian group requires the salt baths, but not our "E's"... I use approx. an eighth of a teaspoon of Instant Ocean (marine salt) to a quart of dechlorinized water to make the saline solution...then add about a teaspoon of this 'solution' to some dechlorinized water for their 'drinking' water. They don't know that they are different... so we don't let on that they may be. But they do require an extra trace of salt and a little more calcium intake. I use the cuttlebone for their extra calcium...pretzels, saltine snacks can supply the salt requirement.... interesting note: when a fresh water source and a source with a trace of ('sea salt... diluted aquarium... water') is offered, my E's almost always head for the 'saline traced water! I have read that their keen sense of 'smell' is responsible... Sad thing is there is next to nothing written about them. I offer plain dechlorinized water to the others.... but the trace of salt water won't harm them. You would be surprised how acute the sense of smell the "E's" have toward the saline tainted water! All the guys seem to benefit from a good bath and 'mist' in the Stresscoat dechlorinized water.... but it has been very beneficial to my "E's" healthwise. Over a third of my guys are "E's" and are doing pretty well with the little extra attention. They LOVE fresh fruit as a special snack.... they are feed commercial food daily with a 'fruit bonanza' of several varieties of fresh fruit on bath days. They go wild for kiwi, mango and papaya... almost any fruit... You mentioned that Noodle was around the water dish .... I have found that the Ecuadorians do tend to hover over the water dishes more than my others... While that is a secondary sign of a possible molt the other factors of less activity, 'dull look' in the eyes (like cataracts), slowly moving antennae... Kritterland is my personal group of guys.... I got 'hooked' on these little fella and am a real softy when it comes to adopting them. Several pet stores will call me and say that they have a few guys missing legs or claws and need some special attention...Soooo, off I go to adopt these precious fellas... Try not to spoil them TOO much, but that is easier said than done! The guys range in size from teeny blackeyed pea size up to a fist size jumbos... housed in several tanks... Hope this helps some... if you have anymore questions feel free to get back in touch with me! Happy Crabbing!

Don

--- "Melissa A. Britton" mab43@p... wrote:

Hi CLD,

It's Melissa with the Ecuadorian again. I bought Noodle a couple more friends, and I was just wondering if/how often I should give him a salt water bath. I bought some marine salt from the pet store, and I was wondering if it was all right to also give the other guys these salt water baths too. :) Noodle's been hanging around the water bowl a lot, but he's still active... Might he be getting reaedy for molt?

Thanks so much for your help... You said you have 250+ crabbies - I take it you own a pet store or soemthing? :)

Yours, Melissa

Message 575

From: CRABLOVER DON <[email protected]>

Date: Fri Dec 3, 1999 1:30am

Subject: Fwd: Molt/Moult.... REPOST FROM 11/26 on STRESS COAT

Misty:

Vanessa posted the following last Friday (11/26).

It is in the daily digests and was sent to the group as a whole. Hope it will help. You can always check back and read other posts for other information you may have missed. They are in the 'digest' area of our community. Hope this helps...it is pretty much self explanatory but it you have further questions mail me direct. Happy Crabbing! CLD

<<I have a question if anyone can tell me. What is stress <<coat, is it absolutely necessary, and is it really safe?

Hi Cindy,

Before I met Don and CrabMania I didn't know what stress coat was. In Australia we are told to bathe our crabs once a fortnight (two weeks) in a weak solution of water and rock salt crystals. This is mainly due to the fact that aussie hermies are closer to the water than their US relatives. On my webpage I had some instructions on how to give hermit crabs a salt bath.

CrabMania found my page while shopping for online hermie products and was a little distressed because she thought that the salt baths would harm hermit crabs that were not of the Australian variety. She owned an Ecuadorian hermit crab which she adds "a little pinch in one of my water bowls for my Ecuadorian crabs. That's it."

Crab Mania also stated that "Once a week I bathe my crabs in a formula called stress coat. I put 3 drops in per gallon of water. Stress coat has been proven by FMR (Florida Marine Research- I can give you their number if you'd like) to help keep up the production of the natural oils in their gills. Essential to their health. It also doesn't dehydrate them like salt does. In fact, if keeps them moist, making the molt process easier."

Pretty soon after I received that email from CM I made a note on my website that salt baths should only be given to Australian hermit crabs.

CrabMania then emailed her friend CrabLoverDon (which I have been eternally grateful for - I have learnt so much from CLD!) and he wrote to me about Stress Coat with Aloe. I will share part of a long email here for you (hope you don't mind, CLD?)

"Hi Vanessa:

My name is... Crablover Don. Cerissa (CrabMania) shared your letter with me about the salt baths and your interest in my research and interest in using the DECHLORINIZER With the Stress Coat (Aloe Vera) properties. I have around two hundred and forty little guys here at Kritterlandusa... We have PP's, Reds and about a third of my guys are Ecuadorians. I have been 'Crabbin' since February '97.

The reason for my interest in trying this particular dechlorinizer was because of the new water guidelines put forth from FMR. and the fact that I was unable to stabilize my "E's" for longer than a month or two... I believe these guys are very similar to the fellas you are accustomed to in Australian. Most water conditions here in the US have so many minerals and chemicals that I have used dechlorinizers for some time to to prevent blisters and other maladies related to using regular tap water... Since FMR believes that water suitable to fish life is suitable to use with hermit crabs, I sought out a way to 'help' my little fellas...

Vanessa, to clarify the situation, I have often stated that hermit crabs do not REQUIRE the stress coat formula but it does aid in the healthy maintenance of the gill function necessary for their breathing. It is true that the crabs do not have the exact 'slime coat' as fish, but they do have a protectant factor similar to the 'slime factor' in fish. This 'factor' is necessary to keep the hermit crabs gills moist and functioning well. As noted in the posts..."E's" require a trace of 'seasalt' in their drinking water and the saline is known to 'strip' away some of this protectant.... I checked with FMR and other fish and crab experts to verify my thought that aloe vera would not harm my guys. This was verified.

Noting FMR's statement about water conditioning,( as noted on the care sheet that any water good enough for fish is good for your hermit crabs.) I asked several aquatic experts around here to see what products they used for their fish care. Each used stress coat formulas... only differing by brand names sold by their store! We tried and researched several of these products before I even thought about posting about them! I wanted and needed help in seeing my"E's" could survive. I personally feel prevention is better than sitting back and doing nothing to help them stay healthier. Before I even started using this formula I discussed it with Kathy at FMR. In fact she posted a follow up on the HWO board concerning it.(It is under Water Questions... around April 3 or 4th...)

Vanessa, I have a personal commitment to myself to never recommend or suggest anything that I really don't believe in or that I have not researched/used myself. The opinion, of course is mine, but the option is that of anyone who wishes to try its use. From my experiences, the stress coat formula has been very beneficial in seeing my Ecuadorians successfully molt...in the past, my "E's" (Until my use of the aloe vera base, I never had a successful "E" molt... we now have the 14th guy ready to rumble!) Many of us have have had a history of our larger reds and pp's not making it through molts...along with myself, several others have used the s.c. and had successful molts of our larger guys.. I have had a jumbo complete a successful molt without incident and to date several other larger guys have molted without problems. I stick by the results that I have had with my own experience. "

So.. I hope that answers your question!

Thanks CLD and Crabmania :)

Vanessa.

Message 699

From: CRABLOVER DON <[email protected]>

Date: Mon Dec 20, 1999 5:10pm

Subject: Re: hey...with some answers...

Hi Misty:

Yes, you can find the 'stress coat' in the fish department of most pet stores. It is actually a water conditioner (dechlorinizer with aloe vera properties).

There are many brand names... I happen to like:

"Stress Coat" by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals... they also made a great water conditioner called: "Tap Water Conditioner" it is a good product to use for their drinking water.

Yes, you can make up smaller 'batches' of it... a drop or two per quart of water works fine... I don't 'save' the leftover amounts for more than a day or so... so a drop of stress coat per a pint of water... a couple drops per quart, will work too! While I don't recommend it for drinking water..."too much of a good thing can be bad"... it works great for bathing and misting.

I bathe my guys once a week... a couple of times per week doesn't hurt... with misting in between if you like. But that at least once a week vigorous bath is really a necessary thing for their 'good health'...

The 'baths' not only hydrate them... Note: they also store additional 'water' in their shells (to aid in their molting). Particles of food, sand, wastes and etc. can 'lodge' with the shells and reach that 'soft' underbelly more directly. This could cause them some 'irritation' and make them uncomfortable... until it can be washed away... Through a good 'swim like' bath...the more they move those little legs the better the chance of dislodging wastes and those 'foreign' particles... (not to mention the exercise and getting that 'extra' moisture to their gills.)

The 'dish' or bowl you bathe them in should be at least twice as deep as your largest guy. Many times my guys act recalcitrant and don't want to 'come out' when first put in the bath water... (others clamor to get out!)... but a good minute or preferably two minutes is best for a good 'swimming bath'... Then a little time to air dry a little before returning them to the crabitat. We set up a 'playroom' with toys and climbing items for this purpose. We use a terry cloth towel washed without detergents and fabric softner... inside of their Rubbermaid storage box/exercise room...

Misty, some folks use a 'fish net', spoon, strainer, etc. to 'pooper scoop' their sand every day or so... Some scoop it out... Then some choose to just discard the sand when they clean out the tank. I have used gravel, sand and now tiny river rock... I tried the recycling the sand by using a sifter/strainer to 'catch' the wastes, etc... rinsed it well with running water, then I boiled it for a while...then baked it... a real pain! I finally decided to discard it and replace it each time. Now the gravel and riverrock I do recycle.. I, personally, use a colander to do this... but you can get the same results by putting smaller amounts of the 'gravel' in a pan/bowl, etc. and run water over it until the water flows clear... I let it drain some in a colander or spread some out on a bath towel to soak up some of the water then I put it in/on a couple of older 'jellyroll pans' lined with newspaper and paper towels and 'bake' it in a 'warm' oven (about 200 degrees) to finish drying it out before returning it to the tank....It is time consuming... but the riverrock that my guys seem to love so much is unavailable at this time, so it is a 'labor' of love thing for me... I did find a good product to help cut some time... it is called "Gravel Wash" and is put out by Jungle Labs... I 'soak' the substrate in a few drops of it over night and it seems to loosen the 'gunk' on the gravel... making it easier to "rinse"...it is 'pricey', but it doesn't take too much to work...also, found that some baking soda and white vinegar works well too.... Just make sure no detergents are used in the cleaning and that it is rinsed extremely well.

Hope this helped answer your questions... if not, 'mail me'...

Good Luck and Happy Crabbing!

Don

Message 732

From: CRABLOVER DON <[email protected]>

Date: Mon Dec 27, 1999 2:23pm

Subject: Re: drinking the bath water // BATHING

Bathing is necessary. It hydrates the guys and helps keep their shells cleaner and free of possible irritants. The small amount of water they may consume during a bath is fine. What was said about the drinking of the stress coat treated water water is that it is not recommended for their daily water source. Too much of a 'good thing' can result in problems down the line. If you would chose no baths over the possible consumption of a minuscule amount of bath water then a greater injustice to the health and well-being of your little ones. You may wish to review the statements in the archived messages at the community site for additional information on stress coat use. It was never stated that the guys shouldn't drink stress coat treated water... at all.... Just that it was not a good idea to make it a daily source of drinking water... So no 'danger' there! Continue with the baths! Happy Crabbing.... CLD

--- "Jad B. Johnson" Jad@a... wrote:

while giving my guys a bath, i noticed that they drink the water. it has already been stated that crabs shouldn't drink stress coat water, so is drinking the bath water just as dangerous? If so, is it more dangerous to give them baths or not to paraphrase sheakespeare: to bathe or not to bathe jad

Message 760

From: CRABLOVER DON <[email protected]>

Date: Sat Jan 1, 2000 5:54pm

Subject: Re: gill blisters

Jimmy:

What Trena was referring to is the blistering around the 'gills' of a crab... It would be quite difficult to actual 'see' this situation or problem considering the location of this tiny organs. Chlorine in regular tap water can cause these gills to ulcerate and eventually cause your crabs respiratory system to shut down when they can no longer function properly.

This is one reason that it is recommended to make sure that you always want to use water that is dechlorinized and or free of other minerals... As an EXTRA precaution it is highly recommended to bathe your guys in a dechlorinizer with Stress Coat... The stress coat is good for maintaining good health and works to help with proper gill functioning.

The spots that you mention sound very much like the normal tiny little white specks/bumps that many of our crabs tend to have... it is just part of their exoskeleton.... Don't think you need to worry at all!

Good Luck and Happy Crabbing in 2000!

CLD

--- Jimmy Steimel nymets90@h... wrote:

> Trena,

> What color are the blisters? My crabs have gotten white, little spots on them. They seem to be okay. But I'm just a little worried now.

> Jim

Message 912

From: CRABLOVER DON <[email protected]>

Date: Thu Feb 3, 2000 3:21pm

Subject: Re: spring vs. tap

Trena:

This statement on water quality comes directly from the FMR care sheet:

*******************************************************

"Water quality is a must. Our rule of thumb is, if the available water supply is acceptable for keeping aquarium fish, it is acceptable for hermit crabs. If you must treat the water for fish, treat the water for hermit crabs. Hard water with high iron content can do the most damage to your hermit crabs."

**************************************************************************

Trena, each and every person really needs to determine as you did about the safety of the water in the area in which you live. "Spring water" and 'bottled water' is fine to use... as long as it is free of chlorine and other minerals... There are several water conditioners that will detox water... eliminating other minerals just as the Stress Coat products dechlorinize and condition for the bath water.

One called TAP WATER CONDITIONER by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. This is one that I like. It is relatively inexpensive but a good water conditioner that removes chlorine and other minerals from tap water. Of course a good water filter would do the same thing. "Jungle" also has several products that can detox. IN previous posts, I have always suggested or recommended that a person check with their local water boards or their pet stores (if in their community) Hope this helps!

Happy Crabbing! Don

--- almo 2nd email tbean@a... wrote:

Hello all,

What is the general feeling in this group regarding drinking water for the crabs? I use spring water as Iowa has really disgusting water (I don't think the only contaminants are chlorine). It also has a very high iron content, making it very hard water. I really don't feel comfortable giving my crabs tap water treated with dechlorinizer b/c of the other problems with the water around here. Just wondering what others thought...

Trena

Message 948

From: CRABLOVER DON <[email protected]>

Date: Wed Feb 16, 2000 9:12am

Subject: Re: Ecuadorians and Salt

Rus:

You've got it! What you read is my recommendation for the Ecuadorians 'drinking' water.... I 'save' the water only for a week at the most...and make up a 'fresh' batch.

Just make sure you use dechlorinized water/treated water from the start. (NO Stresscoat treated water for drinking) Happy Crabbing! CLD

--- Rus Wilson ruswilson@h... wrote:

From: "Rus Wilson" ruswilson@h...

Hi all you crablovers out there...I pose a question to you...

On Vanessa's care page, I am informed that Ecuadorians require salt, and that the best way to administer it is as follows:

*Drinking water: about 1/8th of a teaspoon of aquarium salt (Instant Ocean or Doc Fishwell are the best) to a quart of dechloronized water. Then add a teaspoon of this solution to their drinking water.

That's pretty clear. But how long will this quart of water keep? Should I keep it in the refrigerator? Am I being stupid (perhaps it keeps indefinitely?) I just don't want to give them stagnant or stale water.

Also, I assume that I add 1 teaspoon of this solution to fresh drinking water EVERY DAY. Am I correct in assuming this?

Thanks!

Rus

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