Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 03:45:03 -0600
From: demipagan@(domain name removed)
Subject: hello...

-> no, I was invited by a couple, one who is Wiccan, the spouse Catholic.

Oops. Sorry, I should have read that more carefully.

As for the age thing ... heh, heh ... obviously you saw the new version of the page very early in its existence, before it was proofread. Of course, that would be younger pagans born AFTER 1956. My parents hadn't even met before 1956. I'd be ineligible for membership in my own group.

Yes, it is exclusively a group for younger pagans right now, just like a Dianic coven would be exclusively for female pagans. And, for the same reason, perhaps - to provide a safe place, where certain widespread, and extremely oppressive attitudes can be escaped. For all of the talk of how we view each others as equals in the community, I've encountered more than a little ageism, to the point of encountering a few full blown cases of the "Constance Horner Syndrome" referred to on the page. (Ms. Horner was a member of the Bush administration who announced that the institutions in our society "should take control of the lives of our young people" in order to prevent "rampant individualism").

But, as is pointed out, membership in the Shrine is not intended to exclude membership in other groups. Far from it, overlapping memberships are encouraged, in the interest of promoting community building. This policy no more constitutes an isolation of the membership from older generations, than does the existance of an African-American student's association on campus imply a return to segregation.

There are other reasons, but there is no reason to do a rehash, here. Plus, there is the issue of having one's own opportunity to engage in a little youthful rebellion, a right that your generation was not especially hesitant to exercise itself. It's only fair that our turn should come as well. Sometimes, it is time to let go and let the kids be themselves. Don't you agree?

________________________________________

Note: In part, she responded

"as a priestess with a dianic degree, a point here: dianic temples are not exclusively female...what is exclusive is the deity they call down-the feminine principle is the only aspect of divinity addressed."

Let us now go to p.121 of the 1986 edition of Drawing Down The Moon", by Margot Adler (ISBN 0-8070-3523-0), where we are told

"There are at least two primary streams of Dianic worship in the United States ... In the 1970s the most famous coven in this tradition was Z Budapest's Susan B. Anthony coven of Los Angeles ... This Dianic stream conceives of Wicca as "womin's religion". Men are excluded."

In all fairness, a second stream where men are not excluded is mentioned. But to flatly state that Dianic temples do not exclude men is wrong. Given that Z Budapest was fairly well known, even outside of the Dianic tradition, we have great difficulty believing that this mistake was an honest one. Our guess is that someone thought that we were callow young high school students, too young to remember the early 90s, and the hostile separatist feminism craze of that time, with its affected New Age trappings. On the contrary, how could we ever forget?

(Addendum, August 26, 2003: The priestess in question would later be found in possession of a Dianic coven which did, indeed, exclude men on whose homepage could be found her comments that this didn't make them "manhating lesbians". So much for sincerity on this issue, in her earlier remarks).

Let's continue.