Ramessu
(veteran poster)
05/24/01 00:47 AM
Re: Religion and empowerment [re: Antistoicus]
Hra-Ku Antistoicus,
I never once stated or implied that the Divine is not present. (1) I stated that the divine has better things to do than babysit the entire world's population individually. The Divine gives each person the tools necessary to go about and succeed in life. (2) If the individual sees fit not to make use of these tools, then why should the Divine bother when the person themself will not? (3)
A little respect sir? (4) You could do some with yourself. I never once stated these things you accuse me of, and make slandeous comments in my name that I did not state. If what you state is how you translated my statements then these are your own observations, and certainly not what I said. (5)
Baraka,
Ramessu
He who would learn to fly must first learn to stand and walk.
~Nietzsche
Click here to return to "Setting the tone"
(1) Let us shed a little light, where Ramessu has seen fit to generate heat, and take a look at what has actually been written, so far. First of all, here is the remark of mine, which he claims to be a misrepresentation of his earlier remarks.
Compare this claim, to what he actually said earlier, and the context in which he said it. "The time of the Neters walking the earth is long over". That's a direct quote. So is this: "Why do you think any Neter would bother with anybody of this earth?". In other words, the Divine no longer walks the earth, nor does it choose to act upon the earth. And yet, here he claims to have been misrepresented, when he is credited with saying that the Divine presence is no longer among us, a simple, straightfoward paraphrase of what he has just said.
Rather than respond honestly to a counter-argument, he chooses to bluff, and hope that the reader's memory will be faulty enough for this attempt to mislead the reader to succeed.
(2) See my response, in the next post.
(3) Let's take a look at what those "tools" are, in an earlier post by Ramessu. What we see here, is the old online game, especially beloved of our Occultist friends, of evading rebuttal by quoting oneself out of context, rendering one's own meanings hazy.
Read in context, Ramessu clearly did not speak of secular knowledge or skills. He speaks of entering the "higher strata of beings", attaining the "knowledge and understanding of the Neters" (ie. gods), and becoming a power, for "knowledge is power". In secular matters, yes, but only in an indirect sense. Knowledge, by itself, doesn't give one power, as any scholar or researcher who has even fallen victim to a thug knows all too well. At most, some areas of expertise can be used to gain access to power, if those knowledgeable in them have the time and opportunity to put their knowledge to full use. To speak of Knowledge that directly becomes power is to speak of magic, by definition. It is to speak of the Occult, as this talk of entering the higher strata of beings would suggest.
(4) Very little, if we take events here at face value, and show Ramessu as much respect as he seemed to be showing Ankhesenamun, on first glance. (See the italicized portion of this passage).
(5) Transcending Chutzpah, Ramessu commits an act of slander, through a wrongful accusation of slander. (The truth in these matters, can be found merely by following the earlier footnotes, especially the first). Irony without humor.