Here are some of the letters. Keep in mind, as you look this over, that Antistoicus was carrying this on as a private e-mail conversation. It wasn't until briefly later that he found out that Ellen was announcing to the world (or, at least to one of the mailing lists in it) the deep, dark secret that he didn't like her.

Some people really have too much time on their hands.








From: Ellen ... Number: 325367
To: Antistoicus ... Date: 2/19/01 10:41 PM
Subject: Would you agree to meet me face to face so that I may talk to you?
Reference: None
Read: 2/20/01 12:41 AM Private: Yes


In a message dated 2/19/01 2:00:30 AM Central Standard Time,


<<The answer is that it will be mostly a prose night, but they do allow people to bring poetry up as well. On rare occasions we've seen musical accompaniments to pieces people have read. There was even one performance piece at "Red Light Night" on Valentine's Day.

Please, though, if anybody has any questions about the event, please send them directly to me at

(Antistoicus' e-mail address)


instead of to the lists. (I have a web subscription to this list, so I am not going to be checking in too often, and would probably miss your question).>>

I was wondering If I might meet you, or Mike Daley at this "Storytime". Are you willing to sit with me at a table and talk to me face to face.

Ellen











From: Antistoicus ... Number: 325709
To: Ellen ... Date: 2/20/01 12:57 AM
Subject: Would you agree to meet me face to face so that I may talk to you?
Reference: None
Read: 2/20/01 12:58 AM ... Private: Yes

You AND Mike on the same evening. My cup runneth over.

What do you want to talk about? Trolls' Night Out is a bad night for anything serious. I've promised folks a few laughs, and I'd like to try to deliver on that.











From: Ellen ... Number: 325859
To: Antistoicus ... Date: 2/20/01 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: Would you agree to meet me face to face so that I may talk to you?
Reference: None
Read: 2/20/01 10:01 AM ... Private: Yes

In a message dated 2/20/01 12:57:50 AM Central Standard Time, Antistoicus writes:

<< You AND Mike on the same evening. My cup runneth over.

What do you want to talk about? Trolls' Night Out is a bad night for anything serious. I've promised folks a few laughs, and I'd like to try to deliver on that.>>

Well, heres the deal. I dont wanna mess up your night. I actually thought that i would really enjoy going to the event you are hosting. But I can appreciate the fact that you might find my presence irritating. So tell me if you would rather I not attend that event, please. Also, if having Mike along for this talk is a dumb idea, then lets not be dumb.

I have heard many rumors of reasons why you are angry with me, but as I havent heard them from you, I have no idea as to their accuracy. I wanted to discus this fact-to-face with you, so there will be NO reason for any mis-communication between us. Let me know if you would prefer to do this, where and when.

Ellen











From: Antistoicus ... Number: 327266
To: Ellen ... Date: 2/20/01 11:21 AM
Subject: Mike, Anger, etc.
Reference: None
Read: 2/20/01 11:21 AM ... Private: Yes


Mike is a little too indiscreet for my taste. Besides which, I'm sure he wouldn't agree, anyway. Members of underground groups do not come topside to greet people they don't trust. What do you think, Ellen? Do you think Mike is likely to trust you?

Why am I angry with you? You're kidding me, right? Were you under the impression, when you started spreading innuendo at my expense on the Il-Pagans "Free to Speak" list, that word would not get back to me? As it happened, one of my relatives was lurking on that list when you started making references to my "making trouble" on lists where I had never even posted.

I could recount the events involving Prima Nocturne's visit to the shrine mailing list, but why? You were there and the whole incident was exhaustively documented at

(url ommitted)

with your own role in that outrage being discussed in a narrative assembled out of my correspondence with Pat about the matter, at

(url ommitted)

There is nothing vague about those accounts, and the urls for them went up on most of the local Pagan lists. Let me sum it up. You lied to me and tried to manipulate me on behalf of an utterly worthless group (Sally's Prima Nocturne) which had rewarded our hospitality with a hostile takeover attempt, and by spreading disinformation at our expense when that effort proved futile. You dealt without honor and showed yourself to be one that I'd best not turn my back on.









(Having run out of space on the e-mail form he was using, Antistoicus then finished his comments in the next letter).








From: Antistoicus ... Number: 327327
To: Ellen ... Date: 2/20/01 11:39 AM
Subject: The present
Reference: None
Read: 2/20/01 11:40 AM ... Private: Yes

Would I like you to stay away from Trolls' Night Out? If you were me, and somebody and her group had that kind of history with a previous group you had started, how would you feel about that person showing up? Yes, I would like you to stay away from the event. The same goes for Sally.

You know, I might be a little more prepared to take your apparent effort to make peace seriously, if I hadn't heard from (ommitted) this morning. It seems that you have one of your allies, (ommitted), fighting a rear guard action on your behalf over on Nekkid_Heathens. Responding to somebody telling the truth (and to another saying that one should apologize for having done wrong) with character assassination and comparisons to Sen. McCarthy is dishonorable behavior under any reasonable standard.

So I hope you will understand if, as you hold out an olive branch, I look for the dagger underneath. Recent events have not given me cause to trust you.


...................................................................................... Antistoicus









Let's move on.