Date: Sat Sep 21 10:38:57 MDT 2002
Antistoicus, your feeble attempts to fudge the issue are pathetic.
Nobody is looking for any 'war' with the Xtians or anyone else
although YOU would love to create such a situation. It is 'you' that
is full of hate towards paganism as your own words prove so well. Why
else would you welcome the Vatican 'blood libel' against pagans? You
are nothing but an evangelical, wiccan-hating troublemaker seeking to
divide pagans! Oh yeah - most Nazis were 'Christian' folk, born and
Re: Lord Alton. Antistoicus may not regard this person as important
yet his anti-pagan actions may effect thousands of pagans in the UK
and abroard, via new SRAM cases. You should know that the fundie
machine crosses ALL national barriers. The SRAM came from the States
to the UK in the first place. You are so very ignorant of these
matters (or of course pretend to be 'Rev.') Interesting that you love
to vilify CHU and CCLF for simply warning people about what fundies in
high places are up to!
Antistoicus, consider the following : the late Geoffrey Dickens MP
stated - 'We must outlaw witchcraft in this country. No child is safe
We have to go in with hobnail boots. I want all cults of this nature
outlawed. I want them closed down and made totally illegal" (24 April
1988) - just weeks later SRAM started. CCLF opposed him and turned the
situation for the good of ALL pagans. Should they have simply ignored
the danger and hoped that it would blow over like many others did?
Date: Sat Sep 21 11:30:54 MDT 2002
Rev. A, Your heart is 100% Xtian/monotheistic as your own words prove
so clearly. Not only do you hate wiccans you also hate pagans and
think that Vatican supression is "Good". "Church-goer" (as you call
yourself) why don't you quit before you make a bigger fool of
yourself now! 'Christo/ Pagan' - oh hum - grow up & give us a break!
Crusading missionary Xtians like you are so easy to spot!
Date: Sat Sep 21 15:46:34 MDT 2002
Tobias - history is what it is, whether it suits your political
purposes or not. To acknowledge the real thing with all of its warts
doesn't make me a covert "Xtian" missionary, it makes me honest. What
I am in favor of is a Pagan community that, unlike you and Gertrude, is
mature enough to take those lumps that a truthful recounting of
history will leave it with, and learn from its past mistakes, not
resort to Historical Revisionism, as you and Gertrude have right here.
Now, Toby, another question (and I notice that you're still trying to
sidestep my earlier question of what positive good you hope to
accomplish for Pagans by whipping up hatred like this). If being in
favor of intolerance toward Pagans was the normative Christian
position, instead of an abberation practiced by a few hatemongers,
then how do explain the presence of religious freedom for Pagans in
all of these overwhelmingly Christian Western countries?
Realistically, Pagans could never have won these freedoms for
themselves through force. As you yourself seem to admit, such a war
would be over before it started, were Pagandom ever foolish enough to
start it. Nor can the West have been forced to embrace these reforms by
outsiders, because by the time these freedoms were given, the West
clearly dominated the globe both militarily and economically.
The only rational conclusion is that Pagans in the West are free to
worship as they please because, by and large with but a few
loud-mouthed exceptions, Western Christians want them to be. What you
are doing here is scapegoating a decent majority in response to the
actions of a few. If that is a legitimate thing to do, then, as much
as you have tried to dodge the point, one is left with that hateful
minority of Pagans who did so much to make the Holocaust happen.
I am amused by your attempt to evade this point by saying that most
Nazis were Christian born and bred - as if most present-day Pagans
were not. Using your own logic, where you scapegoat the majority
because of the actions of a few, one would be left with the conclusion
that Jews should hate Pagans, Jews who don't hate Pagans, and
Judeo-Pagans, I suppose. If, being a Pagan, you find yourself
rejecting that conclusion, then reason must compel you to reject the
argument that produced it.
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