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SF_Goldabar
SF Level Designer
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 138
Exclamation I'm leaving SF IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Old Post 08-25-2001 05:45 PM

Let's see......how do I begin.

Ok. I'm leaving SF. Over the past few weeks I've been thinking about this a lot, it's been a pretty hard decision to make really in some ways, but now I've finally made it.

I'd love to say that I was leaving because of "family issues" or " lack of spare time to spend on SF". These two issues have a little to do with me leaving, but not much. There are many more reasons, and at the risk of making myself look like a total idiot, I feel that I need to say these things out loud so that my leaving doesn't just turn into a "he left because he needed to spend more time with his family" thing.

Lately I feel, Opti, that you care less and less about the hard work and effort that goes into this game, and the people that put that effort in. I've been getting this feeling from you for a while, and you've made your attitude clear to me in your handling of the head mapper issue, and your stance on the completion time of maps.

Firstly, the head mapper issue. I know that there is very little chance of me becoming head mapper. In fact, the main reason I wanted to be head mapper was so that I'd get a little more inspired to get more involved with SF. A few weeks ago I came sooooo close to leaving SF. So close. As in I was already in the process of going elsewhere to work. But no, I turned down the offer to go somewhere else at the last second (I was about 10 minutes away from ICQ messaging you to tell you I was leaving in fact) because I thought that maybe if I had the chance to be head mapper I'd get a bit more "excited" about SF again, like I was about a year ago, or when I first joined this team. But in a chat with you the other night, those hopes were squashed VERY quickly. You basically gave me the message that "you=booss. me= tiny, unimportant mouse". You did this inderectly mind you, you didn't just kinda say this straight out. This is where my other reason for leaving comes in. You also basically told me that I don't put in enough effort (you seem to have come to this decision based on the number of maps that I have done for SF so far). Now I know, and I've said this before, I have only done 4 maps for SF. The problem is that you don't seem to be able to understand that making a good map takes a whole lot of time and effort. Its almost as if you expect us mappers to be able to make a good map every week, finished, tested and handed in.
The thing with this attitude is that it shows that you really have no respect for me and the mapping team, and I can't work with someone who has no respect for me, simple as that. Also, even after 2 years of hard work, you STILL basically would not even consider me for head mapper. It doesn't worry me that I have no chance, because really it was just a last ditch effort to try to stay with SF, almost like a "test" set to choose for me wether I should leave or not, but what it does show is what you think of me. It shows that you don't care about me at all, you really couldn't give a stuff if I was here or not, and really, if thats the way you feel, why should I be here? I think I'll feel a lot better about myself if I go somewhere where I at least have a good chance of earning some respect.

A couple of incidents also come to mind that help to back up this point. A while ago there was a SF team chat (that everyone was invited to) to discuss some deals with Epic about using the U2 engine, or something like that. I really wouldn't know because I wasn't told about it. But I DID get to read the transcript and I DID see people in that chat room saying "Um.....what about Goldabar" and you know what reply they got? None. None from you at all. Thanks a lot.

And then, another incident (this incident is kinda petty but it still shows how I've kinda be distanced form the team, even though when this incident happened I think Opti knew that I was working on a new map, so it's not like I wasn't doing anything for SF at the time). The entire team had interviews with MGON, and I was never told about it or asked if I wanted one. Again, I don't care that I didn't get an interview, but I do care that I had to go throught the feeling of being left out. That hurt.

My thread about who should get lead mapper also highlighted a few other things about you Opti. That you really don't give a crap what we think, because you should get to make all the decisions. When you're working on a game, you work in a team. If you don't work as a team, things can start to fall apart. Now I know that every team needs a leader, but shouldn't every team be able to help with the decision making every now and then? Especially when it comes to decisions that affect everyone, not just the leader? You should try to make things more diplomatic around here, instead of just playing the boss man. People might be more happy that way, and they may feel more inclined to contribute their ideas and feelings, without fear of being put down before they even have a chance to begin.

My last point is that I'm sick of the secrecy that goes on around here. Well not so much secrecy, but just the general "hiding" of bad things. Such as when Desperado left. I think a lot of people know that he didn't just leave to go to College, you had a lot to do with it too Opti. Maybe for once you should try fixing your bad points instead of just allowing the people who point them out to leave.

I've heard another rumour as well Opti, and if its true you could be in a lot of trouble. I'm not going to say what I've heard about it, because it really could be just a rumour (even though I have seen a few things that point to it being true) but if it's true, then my God, it's terrible. All I'll say is that it has to do with money (a fair amount of it as far as I can tell). But again, I just kinda heard this about an hour ago, I have no idea if its true, and it really has nothing to do with me leaving. It's just really, really bad. Makes me feel sick to the stomach to be honest
Um, I guess everyone should disregard this point, because really if it turns out that I am completely wrong, I'll be the first to apologise.

Ok, well thats it for the bad stuff I guess. I just want to say that for the most part it has been a fun ride, I've really enjoyed myself at times, and it sucks that it has to end like this. I apologise if I've changed anyone's opinion of me with this post, its just that I felt that you all needed to know why I'm leaving, I didn't just want to kind of disappear forever without anyone knowing where I went.

We've had some really talented people go throught this MOD throughout it's existance, and we still have an absolute ton here. This really is a talented team. And apart from the talent on this team, there's also a lot of nice people on this team. We all get along really well, and if it was allowed I think we'd function as more of a team really well. I think there needs to be some work done before this can happen. In any case, I wish the best of luck to you all in the future, however things turn out. You're a great group of people to work with, I'll miss you all

One last thing. Opti, I have a feeling that this post will be gone in a matter of seconds when you see it. You do that, and you'll only be showing me even more that you like to hide stuff like this from the team. Be a man for once, leave this thread here, let people make their own choice for once, their own decision. Take it on the chin mate, like a man.

I'll see you all later, thanks for the ride.


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.aga.
SF Model and Animation Expert
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: LINZ - Austria
Posts: 46
not too much to add to this... IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Old Post 08-25-2001 05:58 PM

there´s so much truth in what goldie writes...
not too much to add to it.

all i can say that i really understand his decition.

respect is something that everyone should get especially if he´s
spending his time for a project like that (did i meantion that we
are not getting paid?).

so this is the only thing to ask for:
respect and fame. we´re not able to post. that´s optis job. and thus we have to wait for his mercy to meantion us.
sometimes he does his job really good... on other occations he
did really bad (that´s my opinion - maybe i don´t know anything
about PR but if i read something i usually think about it).

farewell friend, i hope the next project you´ll work on will make you happy. you´d deserve it.

g,
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SF_Goldabar
SF Level Designer
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 138
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Old Post 08-25-2001 06:01 PM

Thankyou very much Aga, I appreciate it mate

Good luck to you too mate, in the future


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Lord Heisher
SF Level Designer/Guru
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Hail Britannia
Posts: 593
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Old Post 08-25-2001 06:08 PM

at long last someone's spoken their mind. have to say, a lot of it was pretty much on the mark.

hell, something is seriously wrong with the SF setup if another mapper is leaving. We've already lost loads a while back, although that is irrelavent now.

Desperado leaving was a serious blow IMO, he was a nice guy. friendly. good at mapping and from what i know, and ive known him a long time before SF, he's a honest and friendly lad.

So why did he leave? loads of different stories. the problem is that no one bar the mappers know why he left. Cause he didnt want to stir sh|t. and so rumours flew about him, and no one apart from a few knew the real reasons...

With Goldabar gone, this isnt the case, as he's told us why. and its saddening really.

He is a bloody nice guy, a damn good mapper and if he's gotten on his bike too, then we gotta address some serious flaws somewhere in SF. And him making this post and being honest about it is exactly the way to go and fix these flaws. Come on, he's one of the best RL mappers in UT, being realistic, and he's so annoyed that he left cos he felt alienated. cant be good. he's spent a frikking age making sf maps, constantly for 2 years, high quality maps too, no crappy ones. devoting his time to SF only to get ignored is shItty.

these 'rumours' are pretty rude, I know of them, and it is pretty damn sickening if its true, thats all i can say...




mate, you and i have had some great chats in the past, we're gonna continue to, and i wish you all the best with future projects cos, as aga said: you 'deserve it.'

cheers, rich


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Lord Heisher
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Old Post 08-25-2001 06:09 PM

my msg very severely condensed is that:

we've lost a bloody nice guy, a brilliant mapper and a great friend and I'm sure as hell annoyed at that fact.


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Stu_Man
SF Level Designer
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Englishman in Rockford, illinios
Posts: 582
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Old Post 08-25-2001 07:13 PM

u guys seemed to have hit it on the mark..so i wont add to it too much

just that i agree with heishs above statement....
we've lost a great guy and im very annoyed about it too

and also....the mapping situation seems to be getting just better and better......now we down to heish/me/ben/matt.....Things seem to be needed to be fixed around here

oh and this "rumour".....i just hope its not true (who knows with all the rumours that have and do fly around here), cause if it is.....it is very sickening indeed


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a.l.p.h.a.
SF Weapon Models
Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
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Old Post 08-25-2001 11:16 PM

bye.
too bad you have to leave, dunno if we've ever talked but your maps were damn nice
havent heard about any rumors or nothing so I cant say if the things you say are true but why would you lie?(hmm I should be more around the SF community)
awell goodbye and you got the best of my luck


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SF_Optimizer
SF Producer - Forum Moderator
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: NC
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Old Post 08-25-2001 11:39 PM

Good luck to you, see you Gold.

Finally I have this to say. many of you guys seem upset with me and want to leave. I would suggest you take this time to reflect and do what you feel is best.

I appreciate all of you but I dont have time to baby you. There are plenty of people out there that will join up and replace you. Many have come and just as many have left. I started out all this by myself and I may end it the same way. So be it...

Many of you think I am a heartless, cold blooded bastard. Well maybe I am, thing is this is business. I'm not a 14 year old kid living with my mommy and daddy. I'm a 30 year old man with 2 kids of my own.

To be honest I did not even read your entire post Gold, I simply don't have the time. I need people to come on board, work with others, have fun and stick around until I get a deal.

Oh and BTW, Gruff emailed me today and wants to come back and help. So like I said, you guys stop the -----ing I am VERY tired of it. Get over it or leave, it's up to you. I appreciate all of you guys and you should appreciate being able to work on something like SF. If not you can carry yourself and work to TO, INF, CS or anywhere else. I don't own you and thats just the way it is.

Sorry for being so harsh, but thats how I am. Good luck Gold

Oh and BTW, you guys and your rumors make me sick. If you hear something then ask me. I will be 100% honest and tell you, because I have nothing to hide. But instead of being scared to ask and trying to start crap why don't ya get it out in the open?

Also I have had this BAD ATTITUDE feeling from Desperado, Gold, Stu and Hesiher for a while now. Instead of you guys getting pissed just leave if your that mad. To be honest with you guys I really can do without the hassle and BS.

Right now my number one job is to get a deal, find some cash and put it into the hands of the coders. Without them we can't do anything. But seeing we are being honest I will be honest. Map designers are a dime a dozen. Newbies to join SF are excited and if I clean house of all the bad vibes and rumors I can start with a clean slate.

Right now the people that seem to work with me and give me no problem AT ALL are Sonic, Gruff, Threaders, Recon, Cereal Killer, Alpha and Teen.


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SF_Teen_Angst
SF Writer, PR, Editor
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: In Opti's basement, chained to a desk with a maglite, a pack of Saltines, a copy of SF and an Internet connection...
Posts: 255
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Old Post 08-26-2001 01:28 AM

OK, well I see tempers flaring, you know I can't leave well enough alone.

First off I want to say that I am sorry to see Goldie go. I think he is doing the right thing by acknowledging that he wasn't getting what he needed out of SF and seeking greener pastures. I wish him all the luck in the world and look forward to seeing his new work in the future.

Right now I think everyone should take a deep breath. I think, despite Opti's efforts to keep us appraised of the situation (thank you Opti...much appriciated), history still has an effect on our relationship as a team. As far as I could possibly say - and I am one of those guys who hears nearly everything going round on this team - there ARE no secrets to be afraid of. This 'secrecy' thing seems to be an afteraffect of the Tribes 2 deal - which we didnt get. As I said before when we were going round about secrecy, it was and is more trouble than it is worth to know something that might or might not ever happen. Opti is keeping us appraised about the things that we can and should want to know about and for me, that's fine. I don't want to know the dirty details. I think we all need to cut one another a bit of slack here instead of getting into a "he said, he said situation," so to speak.

Some of the gossip going around IMO is a bit silly, and what's worse, damaging. I agree that you should ask Opti personally (ICQ or email) rather than slapping it up here in the forum and making a mountain out of a molehill before even checking up. I think it is sad that some ppl don't think they can trust the 'higher ups' to tell them the truth - and people end up being guilty until proven innocent, or even worse never given a chance to talk about it at all. That is...counterproductive, to put it nicely.

I think we are all big boys, and we should treat each other as such. IMO, a little bit more trust needs to be extended - from both sides here. We all need to cool off instead of jumping to this side or that side.

On the other hand, I would hate to see some words spoken in anger tear us up. I know that there are a lot of mappers out there, but ours certainly are NOT a dime a dozen - otherwise, all the other mods would have maps as good as ours! We have a great team and it is for the good of our great team that I want us all to cool it and focus on what's at hand - the future of SF and, if we are lucky, careers in the game industry. And that in the end is what it is all about, no?


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SF_Goldabar
SF Level Designer
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 138
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Old Post 08-26-2001 03:38 AM

Ok fine, even if I was wrong about that, who cares? I've still made a lot of other points here that you guys should all stand up and take notice of.

Ok that's all I can say I guess because Opti is about to cut off my access to this forum. Cya everyone.


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SF_Goldabar
SF Level Designer
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Old Post 08-26-2001 03:48 AM

And BTW, the person who said this stuff to me didn't say that the money actually came from the caps, tshirts and CD's. I just assumed that myself, so maybe that isn't where it came from. Maybe it's not true. I have no idea, oh well.

Again, bye everyone.


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.aga.
SF Model and Animation Expert
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: LINZ - Austria
Posts: 46
oh well. that´s what i meant. IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Old Post 08-26-2001 12:20 PM

looks like there´s not too much respect for mappers. from your side opti!

that´s really not the way to treat people. especially as these ppl took SF to what it is now... where would you stand opti if these ppl wouldn´t help out? think about it. sure you could let new people join every 2 mounths. whatfor? do you really think SF would get any better then? these newbies would be happy to join - they would be scared to tell a thing if they start to be pissed off. would take some time till they dare to stand up and scream if they feel themselfs treated bad. if that´s your way to handle things... phew.

i´m really not happy how you say goodbye to them... didn´t read your whole post... just got no time - that´s bullshit. stop playing urban terror for 5min and read his whole post; after all he spent more than 5min to take SF further.

but i think you don´t even care.

makes me more than sad.
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Lord Heisher
SF Level Designer/Guru
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Hail Britannia
Posts: 593
dont kill me but... IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Old Post 08-26-2001 12:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SF_Optimizer
Also I have had this BAD ATTITUDE feeling from Desperado, Gold, Stu and Hesiher for a while now. Instead of you guys getting pissed just leave if your that mad. To be honest with you guys I really can do without the hassle and BS.

Right now the people that seem to work with me and give me no problem AT ALL are Sonic, Gruff, Threaders, Recon, Cereal Killer, Alpha and Teen.



sorry, but some mappers are annoyed due reason maybe. just cos people dont try and lick ass doesnt mean they are out to cause trouble in the team mike. Im not gonna take the place of your toilet roll if that is the only way you will respect my mapping ability.

What TeenAngst has said is all pretty much on the ball, all of it, and he's a clever chap so I suggest we do what he says...

although if you cannot even be bothered to spend two minutes reading goldabar's post, that is just sad... he has spent 2 years on SF, and you won't give him 5 frikking minutes.

my 'bad attitude' seems to have flared again eh opti? ah well. as i said, i'm going to speak my mind, because that is a damn sight more useful for you as a leader than if we all nodded like 4 year olds at playschool. i just hope you actually read my post, and hope it helps.


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Stu_Man
SF Level Designer
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Englishman in Rockford, illinios
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Old Post 08-26-2001 01:30 PM

well......this just gets better and better dont it.........

to start off with...

quote:
To be honest I did not even read your entire post Gold, I simply don't have the time.


What a bunch of BullSh.it, what kinda leader are you? u dont even giive it 5 minutes to read his post, how long do you think it took him to build all them maps, how long do you think it took him become pissed anough to post that hes leaving huh?

*tries to keep a calm head*

quote:
Also I have had this BAD ATTITUDE feeling from Desperado, Gold, Stu and Hesiher for a while now. Instead of you guys getting pissed just leave if your that mad. To be honest with you guys I really can do without the hassle and BS.

Right now my number one job is to get a deal, find some cash and put it into the hands of the coders. Without them we can't do anything. But seeing we are being honest I will be honest. Map designers are a dime a dozen. Newbies to join SF are excited and if I clean house of all the bad vibes and rumors I can start with a clean slate.


hmm, wonders me how u heat all this up and say shi.t like that.
tells me you dont wont us around cause u want ur f.ucking clean slate.......and that we have a "bad attitude". Well if this is having a BAD ATTITUDE, then i have one BIG TIME.

I would love to see you get a team of newbie mappers together...no really i would, i wasnt a great mapper at all when i joined BUT because we had some really great mappers i could learn from then.....who will the newbies learn from....and how do u expect to get a deal to do professional work with a bunch of newbies..what u gonna do, use them till you get a deal and then employ some professional ones???? give me a break

and from what teen said:
quote:
the future of SF and, if we are lucky, careers in the game industry. And that in the end is what it is all about, no?

actually no.......I dont think about it much at all, frankly there is MUCH more i can do besides level designing, if the opportunity arrived then maybee i would take it...But at the moment i do this for FUN.....yes a three letter word called FUN!!

now this is my reaction after a few hours of thinking about it....you can imagine how pissed i was to wake up to this....but oh well, i guess id best have a nice think about what i should do and wether to stay since i feel there is little point staying where were not respected.........


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SF_Optimizer
SF Producer - Forum Moderator
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Old Post 08-26-2001 01:32 PM

Right now I am in the process of getting a new map team. I have not talked to Phat_Matt or Ben but I think they will be the only two I keep around for the future of SF and work on UW.

Stu_Man you have been an awesome guy but you need to work more on school like you said. Heisher you did ONE nice map for SF and your opinion gets around more than any work. So good luck to both of you guys. If you need to talk to me on ICQ you know where to find me.

As for 1.65, I will be using some various maps from Plutonic, Spooger, etc. Plus three new ones from AngelHeart.

Good luck guys.......


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Stu_Man
SF Level Designer
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New Post 08-26-2001 02:15 PM

i guess that makes my mind up for me.......


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SF_Omega
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Registered: Jan 2001
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New Post 08-26-2001 04:49 PM

I didn't know I was amongst those that gave trouble?

Please explain.

cheers,
Omega.


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Lord Heisher
SF Level Designer/Guru
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New Post 08-26-2001 05:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SF_Optimizer
Right now I am in the process of getting a new map team


see this is why we (mappers) have all left SF mike. You tell us to trust you, but people arnt blind. Why should any of us, no matter what our ability, be treated like sh|t and look up to you when you have been planning to clean the mapping cupboard out?

you cant just run from issues like this. yeah, it'll die down in a month, its not caused a huge stir probably, but once again you have been the main reason for 4 people to leave StrikeForce.

Thats 4 hugely talented mappers. you try and get commercial quality maps now from 4 new SF mappers. no way.

Mike, you couldnt even be arsed to read Goldabars post. you do actually make me sick because that is so soooo sad.

When Desp left a while ago, all the mappers knew why. It did niggle at the back of my mind, but I kept thinking that SF has the coolest bunch of guys i could EVER hope to work with. You guys have all been the best, ALL OF YOU, but sadly someone has through their own continued actions left no real choice bar leaving SF. its sad, i did actually love SF, but I just cant sit there working for months on a map, moderating a mapping forum for an hour a day and the SF internal mapping one too only to be treated like sh|t.

So thanks to all you guys on the team, you were all bloody brilliant, but the time has come to move on, and the reasons to move on are certainly here too...

cheers, your mate,
Rich 'Lord Heisher' Black


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Stu_Man
SF Level Designer
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Englishman in Rockford, illinios
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New Post 08-26-2001 05:32 PM

not much to say besides......im with heish on this one

you all have been great to me but as heish said, the time seems to have come..........

Stu


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