Discussions on the Sabrang/FOIL attack on the India Development and Relief Fund - IDRF

This is a summary of discussions on the recent attack on the India Development and Relief Fund (IDRF). The discussion started a few hours after the Times of India published an article citing a report presented by Biju Mathew on behalf of an organization called "The Campaign to Stop Funding Hatred". The discussion was conducted at the Bharat-Rakshak Forum, http://www.bharat-rakshak.com

The following is re-published by kind permission of BHARAT RAKSHAK. All opinions expressed below are those of the individuals posting those opinions.

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This is the topic Is IDRF supporting hate organizations or development of India? in forum General History & Current Affairs Forum at Bharat Rakshak Forum.

(The first few posts were actually posted in another thread, and then transferred to a dedicated thread on this issue. )

Posted by Natarajan on 20 November 2002, 12:13 PM
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Anyway, can some knowledgeable BRite address this report in Times of Islamabad - why are they claiming IDRF is used to fuuund non-developmental activity?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?artid=28895575
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SSridhar 20 November 2002 12:41 PM
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This was just now also carried by Star News with a discussion between Prof.George and Mr.Dalmiya of VHP. Seems like a concerted media attack.
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narayanan 20 November 2002 01:05 PM
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Well.. The Times of Islamabad Editors are living proof that "education" can't be classified as being related to "development". Or even to Evolution, come to think of it.

I looked with deep interest for the "facts" given in the article:

1. "IDRF claims to be a non-sectarian, non-political charity that funds development and relief work in India",

2. "IDRF filed a tax document (at its inception in 1989) with the Internal Revenue Service of the US Federal government, identifying nine organisations as a representative sample of organisations it would support. All nine were Sangh organisations."

So were the people who pulled dead bodies, on a non-sectarian basis, out of the rubble of the Gujarat earthquake.

What prevents other organizations from applying to be on the IDRF list? Anyone tried?

3. "82 per cent of IDRF's funds go to Sangh organisations." Oh! What about the other 18 percent? So there's something beyond the statement that "all nine are Sangh organizations", heh??

4. "70 per cent of the monies are used for "hinduisation/tribal/education" work,"
Oh! What exactly is "hinduisation" and is it banned by the Constitution of India?

"...largely with the view to spreading the Hindutva idealogy among tribals."

What does "largely" mean? And what does "with a view to.." mean? See anything illegal here?

5. "However, certain projects run by RSS-affiliated organisations do get money from NRIs for specific projects such as the Ekal Vidyalaya scheme (one-teacher schools run in tribal areas). "

Obviously criminal activity. I mean, how can anyone DREAM of giving money to teachers who run one-teacher schools??? All the TOI Editors must have gone to places like Dun(ce) School, Hyderabad Public School, Bombay Don Bosco School etc.

5. "Less than 20 per cent is used in "development and relief" activities, but the report concludes that since there is a sectarian slant to how the relief money is disbursed, these are sectarian funds, too."

OK, interesting argument to "disqualify" funds for development. So .. any money given by the International Development Bank to any country where anyone has ANY religion is illegal, because it goes to humans who have a "sectarian slant".
Shouldn't CISCO fire every employee who goes to Church? I guess only the PRC and Cuba qualify for IDB funds, since they are Communist.

"The Report" BTW, is " 91-page report by The Campaign to Stop Funding Hate (TCTSFH), a coalition of professionals, students, workers, artists and intellectuals." Certainly devoid of any sectarian or religious agenda, and certainly free of hate. Credibility is enhanced by the fact that "Biju Mathew, a spokesman for the TCTSFH said" it.

OK, I think this deserves a thread of its own. I am NOT going to respond to the TOI article myself, but would be very interested to see any comments posted on it - please do send questions to the TOI for some more justification for their statements.

The Web page of idrf is

http://www.idrf.org/

You can see the reports of what they do, right there. Among other things, they collected a LOT of money for the Kargil cause - was this also handed out on strictly "sectarian" basis? I'd rather have someone else do the careful analysis.

More to the point, could someone please e-mail Biju Mathew and ask him for his report, so that we can all be better informed? And please ask him for his affiliations, and for a list of all his donations and the sources of funding for the report for the past 5 years, as well as those of the other Executives of this fine organization, while you are about it??

Serious request. There are strong reasons why we need to know and act. These people are trying to destroy about the ONE organization of which I know in the US, which DOES collect money on a "claimed" non-sectarian basis, for relief and development in India. Clearly, the intended effect of these guys' accusations is to shut down that channel. We'll not jump to any conclusions about their motives, but we will keep an open mind...

As for the TOI... no further comment, I guess.
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Anoop 20 November 2002 01:33 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by narayanan:
More to the point, could someone please e-mail Biju Mathew and ask him for his report, so that we can all be better informed?

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Done. I'll let you know if I receive it. Rather than take up this matter with ToI now, I think you're right in asking to see the report first. Btw, the website that carries the 'Saffron Dollar' phenomenon the ToI report refers to, does not mention IDRF.
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narayanan 20 November 2002 01:37 PM
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From http://www.fisiusa.org/fisi_News_items/Godhra/godhra0143.htm

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....The unstated goal of Rajesh Chakrabarti and his ilk is to first shut down IDRF. But do we know how much money IDRF has raised and for what purpose? See their website for details (http://www.idrf.org ), and find out for yourself if those monies have gone to train gun-toting, throat-slitting Hindu jihadis . I contribute to IDRF every month, and I would not if there was even the slightest suspicion that the monies were being used to raise and fund a Hindu vigilante group. Chakrabarti and his cohorts have no evidence too. What they have is this fact: that the IDRF is a successful volunteer group that has raised millions for Indian causes, and that most of the money has gone to support Hindu institutions. I said, see for yourself. You don't want to? Ok, here is the IDRF 2000-2001 report:

Total money distributed: $1,858,335. Developmental Projects Total Grants = $1,203,935 of which major recipients were: Sewa Bharati Madhyakshetra, Bhopal, MP -- $105,665; Yog Satsang Samiti, Allahabad, U.P. -- $88,000; VAK Trust, Pondicherry, TN (for Auroville land) -- $72,470; Educate the Children-India, Mumbai -- $49,050; Sri Ram Gram Vikas Samiti Nagauri, District Meerut, UP (for the High School) -- $48,515; Akhil Bharatiya Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram, Jashpurnagar, District Jashpur, Chhattisgarh -- $40,270; Om Prakash Soni Charitable Truuust, Jagraon, District Ludhiana, Punjab -- $34,950; Jeevan Dhara Rakt Foundation, Meerut, UP -- $32,930; Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar Vaidyakiya Pratishthan, Aurangabhad, MS -- $32,320; Bharath Cultural Trust, Trichirappalli, TN -- $30,880; Hindu Society of Ottawa-Carleton Inc, Kanata, Canada -- $29,200; Sewa International Bharat, New Delhi (for rehab; Kargil and Bihar floods) -- $28,330; Vikas Bharati Bishnupur, District Gumla, Chhattisgarh -- $34,885; Jnana Prabodhini-Solapur, Mahaaarashtra $22,935; Sewa-in-Action, Bangalore, Karnataka -- $21,930; Vanavasi Kalyan Kendra, Mumbai (for Talasari Project, District Thane) -- $21,780; Uttaranchal Daivi Apada Peedit Sahayata Samiti, Uttarkashi, Uttaranchal -- $21,420; Birsa Seva Prakalp Bihar, Hazaribag, Jhharkhand -- $16,140; Sanjeevani Sharda Kendra, Bohri, Jammu , J&K -- $14,440; Bharatiya Kushta Niwarak Sangh, Champa, Distrtict Janjgir, MP -- $14,240 ; Shiksha Bharati, Hapur, UP -- $13,040; Swami Vivekananda Medical Mission, Nagpur, Maharashtra -- $11,550; Bharatiya Cattle Research and Development Foundation, New Delhi -- $11,345; Samskrit Bharati, New Delhi -- $11,335; Bhaurao Deoras Rashtriya Seva Nyas, New Delhi -- $11,180; Bharat Kalyan Pratishthan,New Delhi (for Uttar Purbanchal Samiti, Haflong, Assam) -- $10,870; Bhartiya Jan Sewa Pratishan, Raati Taali, District Banswara, Rajasthan -- $10,870; Grama Bharathi, Hyderabad, AP -- $9,080; Dr. Ghasi Ram Verma Samaj Seva Samiti, Chirawa, District Jhunjhunu, Rajasthan -- $9,005; Jan Kalyan Nyas, Dharamsala, HP -- $8,090; Vivekananda Kendra, Kanyakumari, TN (for Arun Jyoti Project in Arunachal Pradesh) -- $8,040; Sri Chennakeshava Trikutachala, Bangalore, Karnataka -- $7,730; Medi-Send International, Dallas TX, USA -- $7,500.

IDRF raised $ 510,375 for Gujarat Earthquake Relief and Rehabilitation, and the major recipients were Sewa Bharati Gujarat, Ahmedabad (for two villages and several schools) -- $360,000; Shree 5 Navtanpuri Dham, Jamnagar, Gujarat (for reconstruction of schools) -- $31,580; Anoopam Mission, Morgi, Dist. Anand, Gujarat (for rehabilitation of orphans and widows) -- $25,530; Sadhu Vaswani Mission, Pune (for reconstruction of houses) -- $25,265; Saath Charitable Trust, Ahmedabad -- $10,000; BAPS Swaminarayan Gujarat -- $10,000; JanPath/JanVikas, Ahmedabad -- $10,000; Shri Ramakrishna Ashrama, Rajkot, Gujarat -- $10,000; Sheth Vakhtawarmal Deopural Charitable Trust, Gujarat -- $10,000.

IDRF also raised money to help the Orissa cyclone victims. Their total grants amounted to $144,025. The major recipients were: SOOKRUTI, Bhubaneswar -- $72,750; Shri Shri Abhiram Anandashram Seva Sangh, Bhubaneswar -- $18,640; Kasturba Gandhi National Memorial Trust, Satyabhamapur, District Cuttack -- $13,950; Sri Aurobindo Progress Trust, Bhubaneshwar -- $8,460; Vanavasi Seva Prakalpa, Kalahandi -- $7,025; ANANYA, Rourkela -- $6,900; Uchabali High School, Bhubanaswar -- $5,000.

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narayanan 20 November 2002 01:40 PM
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I also suggest that someone start a new thread and take this issue head-on:

"IS IDRF REALLY A FRONT ORGANIZATION FOR HATE GROUPS?"

Finding out and letting people know and decide the truth is the best course. Its essential to separate the hype from the facts.

Could start by copying the above 4 posts.
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frakas
posted 20 November 2002 01:40 PM
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"The tv news channels especially had this relentless stream of violence being projected into millions of houeseholds in the country. " : Aditi Parikh

One thing I can say for sure is that if the media hadn't arrived in Gujarat on time, the riots would have gone on with the same intensity for another 2 weeks. Something like what happened in the same city in 1969.

As for people cribbing about DDM, most of these complaints started just after Godhra. The cribbing was started by the hindutva orgs, who seemed to telling us that what you are watching is in any case not what is happening or even if it is what is happening, don't believe it etc etc - a successful plot (maligning the media) in the sense that it created such cacaphony that it consused the general public who was aghast at the violence but now couldn't figure out as to where the blame lay.

Aditi, you are entitled to whatever view or sympathies you have, but for god's sake don't be over possessive about people of certain state.
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bala 20 November 2002 01:41 PM
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For far too long Indian English media, controlled by left leaning and western interest, has portrayed a picture of news by insinuation, disdain for any genuine expression of "Indian" aspirations. The caliber of most Indian journalist and their training is also suspect. When well-meaning Indians question the tawdry reports, a big hue and cry is made. All kinds of other irrelevant ideology, like fascism, are dragged into the picture and the logic of wrong reporting is given a short shrift. An opinion is different than news and rightly belongs in editorial columns. What we witness today in Indian reporting is standard news templates that push opinions rather than news. For example, the tussle between Hindu/Muslim is shown as the majority shoving down a Hinduatva agenda, when indeed the actual situation is quite different. The real causes could be anything, but true to form, the Indian journalist, with no penchant for deep study, reports the usual template - a cut and paste from previous articles. Besides this style, some journalists introduce wild fanged accusations that are unverifiable but nevertheless create the required negative spin on the story. I am yet to see an in-depth report on topics that affect the common man. Very few journalists, for example, Arun Shourie, try to study the topic and report their findings in detail. Most of them miss the entire original cause or never bother to question the right folks. A crime committed in Bihar, usually is reduced to some blathering about Laloo Prasad Yadav, or high caste versus low caste, hindu/muslim problem. The police officer of the scene is never questioned, nor is the district IAS collector. Ultimately, the proper functioning of any society boils down to everyone doing the assigned jobs. Problems arise when someone does not do their job.
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Natarajan 20 November 2002 01:41 PM
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Thanks N^3 and others. I have contributed in the past to IDRF and will do so in the future too. It is with some disdain and disappointment (may be I shouldn't be surprised as Aditi says) that I read this hateful article. These DDMs are spewing hate on any and every organization that receives funding from NRIs. Why all this negativity? Whereas every article denounces the lack of NRI investment in India's development they come up with dorky articles that denounce any NRI involvement!
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shyam_s_p 20 November 2002 01:42 PM
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I know how much money IDRF collected in Cisco and what causes money went. It's bull-**** report with malicious intent. I don't think they can provide proof.

What is this group anyway. This is another example, attack groups that media want to pick on to get into fame.

There was one filmmaker recently used the same tactic. But it back-fired for him though.
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narayanan November 2002 01:42 PM
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It is a time-honored tradition in India to find those who try to do anything good and kick them in the teeth. The TOI is just following tradition.
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John Umrao 20 November 2002 01:48 PM
here is cosy joseph in rediff
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/nov/20josy.htm.

Also who is this Biju Mathew character?

COuld this the work of Christain Missionaries propaganda from US?

This thread is based on suggestion from N^3 to collect and collate any info collected about this organization of Mr. Biju Mathew.

Posted by Anoop on 20 November 2002, 02:01 PM:

Please continue on this thread. The duplicate thread I started can be closed.

Posted by Anoop on 20 November 2002, 02:21 PM:

1. Cross-post from the DDM thread originally posted by jarugn:

The report on IDRF

2. IDRF's clarification from their web site, originally posted by jarugn:

Response to recent malicious media reports
Dear IDRF supporters and friends,

Perhaps you are aware of the recent malicious propaganda against IDRF in the news media and e-mail circulation. Many of you have come out overwhelmingly in support of IDRF at various platforms. We thank you for expressing your concern about it and requesting us to come up with a formal response to the same.

Let us reiterate that IDRF is a non-political, non-profit, public charity in USA and is governed by the US laws. It is managed by volunteers who are professionals devoting considerable time and resources to run this organization which is devoted to serving humanity.

On a lighter note, we must be doing something right to attract this much attention from our adversaries! So we take this opportunity to thank them as well.

Our friends and supporters know our work. We keep our donors posted of how their donations are used. For instance, we raised over $590,000 for victims of the Orissa Super Cyclone and provided donors and the public with detailed information of the NGOs that received the funds. Not many organizations give such complete information to donors and well-wishers. In addition, many of you have visited IDRF-supported projects and have provided us with your valuable insight and feedback. We continue to encourage our donors and well-wishers alike to visit IDRF-supported projects.

Our motto is "Nar Seva is Narayan Seva" (Service to humanity is service to God). IDRF does not shun any humanitarian service organization (NGO) because of its philosophy. It does require the NGO to use the funds provided by IDRF for the intended purpose(s), such as integral development and self-empowerment of the poor and needy, relief and rehabilitation in areas devastated by natural disasters. IDRF also expects that the NGO does not discriminate on the basis of caste, creed, region or religion. We make sure that NGOs that are recipient of our grants are legally established and tax-exempt (in India), and are eligible to receive funding from abroad for humanitarian work. These NGOs are also required to submit their audited annual financial statements to the government. Further, all our grants are made only through checks. Moreover, a significant part of donations to IDRF is designated by the donors themselves.

With your trust and generous donations, IDRF is growing and is continually looking for organizations engaged in genuine service to humanity. If you know of or come across good NGOs, please get in touch with us. We will provide help to raise money for NGOs of your choice. One of our aims is to increase the awareness of 'giving' in our community that will help the needy and poor to become self-reliant in India or elsewhere.

Finally, we at IDRF assure you that IDRF is an autonomous and independent tax-exempt charitable organization with a focus on serving humanity through developing self-reliance and self-empowerment. It is not affiliated to any group, 'ism', ideology or political party. We work with hundreds of service organizations run by different individuals and groups in different regions in India.

We thank you for your trust in IDRF's selfless volunteers. We are sure you will support IDRF even more vigorously through your donations and fundraising efforts. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any questions or comments.

Sincerely,
The IDRF Volunteer Team

Posted by Arun_Gupta on 20 November 2002, 02:29 PM:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/nov/20josy.htm

quote:

A study released in New Delhi on Wednesday says many American corporations and non-resident Indians are duped into funding rightwing fundamentalist groups that are spreading communal violence and hatred in India, a charge that the Sangh Parivar denies.

The report accuses the India Development and Relief Fund, a Maryland-based charity, of being a frontal organisation for the Sangh Parivar and its numerous outfits for funnelling millions of dollars every year to be used by "violent, sectarian Hindu supremacist organisations".

quote:
Biju Mathew, a New York-based professor who released the report in New Delhi, says they will also kick off a signature campaign on a petition to be submitted to leading US corporate houses such as CISCO, asking them to stop "funding hate".

The first phase of the campaign, he says, will be undertaken during Thanksgiving season when donations peak in the US.

The report says that over the past seven years, the IDRF has disbursed more than $5 million for 'development and relief work' in India.

"Many large US corporations such as CISCO, Sun, Oracle, and H-P [Hewlett-Packard] 'match' employee contributions to US-based non-profit organisations. Unsuspecting corporations end up giving large amounts of money as matching funds to IDRF as employees of these firms direct funds to IDRF," he says.

Posted by narayanan on 20 November 2002, 02:35 PM:

Signature campaign, eh? Interesting idea..

Posted by Natarajan on 20 November 2002, 02:39 PM:

The Sabrang site is completely filled with hate for India in general and Hindus in particular - talks about lack of religious freedom in India almost reads like State Department (GOTUS) (mis)report on Human Rights in the rest of the world (or rather the o(ne)ther world!).

Posted by Aditi Parikh on 20 November 2002, 02:47 PM:

Here is an article which the duo authored in the HIMAL magazine in 1999.

Deceit of the Right

http://www.himalmag.com/99Dec/deceit.htm

This article finds a mention in the following V. Bhosle article on rediff.

quote:
In December 1999, Thomson and Thomson (ie, Prashad and Biju Mathew) penned an "exposé" in Himal about saffron
dollars. In it, they claimed to have begun a "study of the Hindu Right in the US several years ago." They vilified the Indian Development and Relief Fund, they slammed the Vanvasi Kalyan Kendra, the Keshava Seva Samithi and the Hindu Heritage Endowment, all with the typical polemics against Hindutva. Point is, after the "several years" plus two years, they still can't offer
a shred of evidence on monies funding Hindu terrorism...

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/aug/12varsha.htm

Posted by jarugn on 20 November 2002, 02:52 PM:

Here is a link to the so called report and the related outfits

http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/2002/FEH/

http://www.sabrang.com/

http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/i_aii/pag_b.html

http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/

Biju Matthew

Posted by Rudra Singha on 20 November 2002, 03:10 PM:

I believe shyam_s_p or his namesake has internally posted very graphic photos of parivar linked volunteers burying decomposed dead bodies in Orissa when the Govt workers had run away.

all of them are wearing white shirts and khaki shorts.

people should be ashamed of throwing mud at folks who come from 5 states away to give a decent burial to the dead.

Hopefully GOI will take up matter and make sure damage is not done.

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 03:21 PM:

I have contributed in the past to the IDRF as well as the MNIF. I have done so based on trust and faith on members of the forum who have promoted it. Hence, one report like this is not going to change my overall trust and faith, simply because I have seen in the past that good efforts are attempted to be run down, often based on questionable 'evidence'.

Having said that, the immediate reaction of denouncing the authors and of rejecting the message totally, without even reading the report or seeing what the points are, is an unhealthy attitude, if one is truly concerned about India first and not just a particular organization (e.g. Sangh parivar in this case), that is.

IDRF Rebuttal

I don't think anybody is questioning the right of the donor to know about where his/her money is going. What is causing heartburn is that this may be a special interest group that wants to destroy any good work being done while doing nothing constructive. And that is a legitimate concern. However, that is how the world functions. There are always special interest groups - the hope is that they are balanced on both sides. And that the truth eventually triumphs.

The media is almost never unbiased (unbiasedness itself is a relative concept). However, the hope is that there are enough viewpoints reaching the reader so that he/she is able to make a considered judgement (of course based on his own biases). And on this thread and hopefully on the media as well, we will see the other side of this story. Eventually, it would be useful to the donors. If the IDRF is not in the wrong, it should be possible to demonstrate that it is not, since it has all the data it needs. A legitimate point may be that this will unnecessarily waste the organization's time and money, but these things have to be built into costs. If the organization is in the right, this will only help in the long run.

The rebuttals on this thread disappoint me. The report clearly says that the 'nine Sangh' organizations were in a statement filed by the IDRF to the IRS. The 82% of funding to Sangh-affiliated organizations is based on the annual report of the organization. These two are not contradictory as is being pointed out.

Similarly, the objection to the Ekal Vidyalaya is not that there is only one teacher in those schools. The usual objection is that these schools teach their students versions of history and civics that may not be accepted by others except those believing in the Sangh ideology. A rebuttal would be to show that the Ekal Vidyalayas are in line with IDRF's stated objective of supporting secular organizations. Similarly, for other organizations like the Vanvasi Kalyan Parishad - a legitimate defense would be to say that it has no religious objective (like Shuddhi which is referred to in the report). To say that they 'also do good things' is not a legitimate defence since it goes against the stated objective of IDRF.

An analogy would make this point clear. Would it be ok for the IDRF to support a madrassa since it is also involved in education (specially if the madrassa teaches modern subjects)? Probably not since its stated objective is to support organizations only involved in secular activities.

In sum, the report raises some points whose legitimacy is unclear. They are not yet proved to be illegitimate as some members are suggesting. Hopefully, in the next few days, things would become clearer.

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 03:33 PM:

I just checked the Sabrang site linked by Jarugn. There are enough commie names there for me to conclude that it has some kind of political agenda. However, one needs to look at the message (just as we look at the reports of those with the Sangh's agenda) and then evaluate for oneself what seems plausible in it. It is desirble for us on the whole that the Commies or whoever else exposes the wrongs of the Sangh just as it is desirable for the RSS and its organizations or anybody else to expose the commies. India will benefit in the process.

Meanwhile, there are organizations which truly do not have a political agenda and that have done good work at the grassroots level. IDRF needs to find as many of those as possible and fund them. I don't really care if they have any religious affiliation as long as they don't have a political agenda - be it of the Congress or the Sangh Parivar or the commies or whoever else. As long as they have an 'India and Indians' agenda. And now, for its own good, IDRF needs to come clear on this.

Campaign to stop funding hate

Posted by ramana on 20 November 2002, 03:49 PM:

Biju Matthew was a active member of the usenet group soc.culture.indian in the old days. What I remember is he had a leftist bent and was kindered spirits to Rohan Oberoi. Didnt know he has become Wendy's child!

Posted by Anoop on 20 November 2002, 03:54 PM:

Sridhar, spot on. We have to read that report carefully and pick the holes that need to be picked in its argument.

AFAIK, IDRF has mainly functioned as a fund collection agency. Despite IDRF's best efforts to stick to their brief, some beneficiaries of their disbursal MAY have been misusing funds. For that, IDRF shouldn't be tarred with a communal brush. Our effort in this thread would be better spent on checking what proof the accusers have offered to substantiate their allegations. It is enough to prove that IDRF has not willingly misrepresented itself while soliciting funds.

Posted by Aditya_C on 20 November 2002, 04:27 PM:

First, IDRF has to be defended from this vicious and politically-motivated Marxist hate-campaign.

THEN an internal investigation should determine if there is any kind of sectional bias or irregularities in the manner in which funds have been disbursed. IDRF is after all a pan-Indian relief organisation and should not be playing favourites among Indians who have suffered.

The issue is not one of misuse of funds but possible lop-sided use of funds.

However, before going into all that, the Marxist propaganda lies about the supposed funding of "violent, sectarian Hindu supremacist organisations" has to be nailed.

Posted by narayanan on 20 November 2002, 04:30 PM:

Sridhar:

The rebuttal is that despite the fact that ALL NINE of the example organizations that IDRF used in their intial filing are characterized as "Sangh outfits", within a few years, over 18% of their actual disbursements went to other organizations.

Funding going to tribal schools where Hindu principles are taught, does not in any way mean that these were hate-teaching organizations.

Actually, to use your analogy, there is absolutely nothing wrong with funding going to a "madarsa" in the sense that madarsas are "religious schools". Come to think of it, I studied for six years in an Islamic School - it was called the Zahira College. Prayer every morning. Islam classes every Friday - all afternoon. I was actually a very attentive student.

I also studied one year in a Catholic Convent, and much later, 2 years in a Catholic College - St. Thomas' College. Lots of religion classes, and the Principal was Father ........ Went around dressed in a priest's costume. I spent maybe too much of my time thinking about people in St. Mary's College, next door, and I certainly had tremendous sympathy, etc. for the "terrorists" enrolled there...

All these institutions received funds meant for education and development from non-profit organizations, plenty of those from non-profit organizations in the US. OK, so what kind of religious terrorist should I be assumed to be, according to the logic used by the TOI and Professors Mathew and Sen? Catholic or Islamic?

In between, I studied in a government school. They gave me holidays for Id-ul-Fitr, Ramadan, Onam, Vishu, Christmas. My classmates came to class wearing crucifix pendants, carrying crucifixion pictures, wearing Islamic headdress, or wearing "gopis" ... and for sure, we prayed for all we were worth when those exam papers came at us, or when the Headmaster came by to determine who was fighting (or who had bleeding injuries from said battle [Eek!]

), to have been creating all that noise. Should this school not be disqualified for receipt of any government funds because lots of the students and faculty had "sectarian leanings"?

Most certainly, we were NOT asked to spend our time training with AK-47s and bayonets. Or to hate others - not even Pakistan.

At the IIT in Madras, there were two temples inside the complex. I don't know how many Churches or Mosques there were - didn't care and didn't mind. The Physics lecturer

came to class dressed like C.V. Raman, with a caste-mark to complete the terror of his outfit. Sure I prayed...

Sridhar, when you donated money to IDRF, were you under the impression that it would only go to people who had NO religion? Or only to people so broad-minded that they worshipped according to ALL religions? Or did you, like me, just want it to go to Indian kids, and didn't give a hoot what religion they professed, because it was irrelevant? What do you see in the accusations in TOI that really bother you? Is it wrong for "One-Teacher Schools" in tribal areas to teach religion? Do you think its practical for a one-teacher school in a tribal area in India, with a huge percentage of illiteracy, to teach kids WITHOUT any reference to religion? Would be nice.. but I would doubt it.

I can see that there's some sort of competition for "hearts and minds" of the "tribals" between the fundoo Xtian organizations from the US, and the VHP, and as far as I can see, that's what's behind these accusations.

The teaching of religious principles in school is by no means illegal in India - India is NOT an atheist nation. Seculariiism in India, as I understand it, is that ALL relgions are welcomed.

The question is whether these schools are schools teaching violence, hatred and terrorism. There is not a shred of evidence to say so. And without that, the accusations are sheer hot air and slander with one objective - that people quit donating money to IDRF either out of fear or ignorance.

That's why its very important to lay out the truth. The funny thing is that if IDRF were to DECLARE itself as a totally fundoo hindoo organizations, chances are that donations would multiply by a factor of a hundred.

Let India Develop

Posted by Rudra Singha on 20 November 2002, 04:41 PM:

the intent of the report is to scare donors (NRI) by establishing a similarity with terror supporting charities. Petitions will be made in coming days to Dept of Homeland Security backed up by leftist orgs, shadowy baptist orgs et al to 'investigate' the org.

its also to embarass and prevent donor orgs like cisco and sun. cisco for example has a 1-for-1 match in donations upto some limit. so every dollar given by csco employee is effectively doubled.

it might yet succeed if a vigorous defence is not mounted.

there is a lot of anger among people I know...might drive a lot of them into the welcoming arms of VHP et al soon.

Posted by JackMP on 20 November 2002, 04:49 PM:

Narayanan,

Could'nt resist asking this question... The colleges you referred to .St. Thomas, St. Marys. Are they in Thrissur by any chance.

Sorry for the diversion..

Jack

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 04:59 PM:

N^3:

While this thread is not about me or what I look for when donating to organizations like the IDRF, let me repeat what I said in my last post

quote:
I don't really care if they have any religious affiliation as long as they don't have a political agenda - be it of the Congress or the Sangh Parivar or the commies or whoever else.

Thus, if there is a humanitarian relief organization that has a religious inclination, I personally have absolutely no problems with it. I do have problems with political organizations and their front organizations however. And I expect that my money does not go to any of them, across the political spectrum. I am not convinced after reading this report that the IDRF knowingly supports some political cause and I am willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. But I do believe that the IDRF will do itself good in the long run by clarifying this doubt.

However, the issue is about what the IDRF states as its objective. Let me quote from their clarification posted above in this thread

quote:
It does require the NGO to use the funds provided by IDRF for the intended purpose(s), such as integral development and self-empowerment of the poor and needy, relief and rehabilitation in areas devastated by natural disasters. IDRF also expects that the NGO does not discriminate on the basis of caste, creed, region or religion

The test for whether it is in the right or the wrong is whether the organization discriminates on the basis of caste, creed, region or religion. And the madrassa fails that test since all students necessarily have to study the Quran. An Islamic school like the one you went to does not fail this test since I presume it accepts students of all religions and does not force those of other religions to study the Quran or its principles, even if it gives that option. Similarly Catholic schools.

Thus, I come back to my point. Whether the Ekal Vidyalaya is affiliated to the Sangh or not is of no consequence w.r.t. the stated objective of the IDRF. The test will be whether these Vidyalayas discriminate against any religion explicitly or implicitly. And this test needs to be conducted by the IDRF for the projects it is supporting - just saying that the projects are doing good is not sufficient.

One point - the report alludes to the 'fact' that IDRF's stated objective is to not donate to any religious cause. I did not find that on the IDRF website itself, where they claim only to not support projects that 'discriminate on the basis of religion'. This is one twist of words in the report that changes the objective of IDRF quite substantially. This point can probably be used in a rebuttal.

Posted by narayanan on 20 November 2002, 05:28 PM:

Sridhar, I agree. I read the summary of the report and its main logic. The accusations are in that

1. Students who were "followers" of some Swami participated in attacks on minorities.

2. Some VHP-type "leaders" who are said to have incited hatred had earlier been MENTIONED in reports of IDRF as those coordinating development activities in their neighborhood.

.. and that seems to be it. Based on these, the report reaches a "single and final conclusion: IDRF funds hate".

By this criterion, every Christian organization in America that has ever sent a dollar abroad also "funds hate". Come to think of it, Prof. Mathew's employer also "funds hate" because he sure as heck hates Hindus, Hinduism and anyone who dares to believe in Hindu culture. .

Now I will add that in a village where the local schoolmaster and 90% of the population are of religion "X", any kids of religion "Y" will feel some sort of loneliness. Trust me, I've been there. I was the ONLY Hindu student in the Islamic school. Maybe there was a Chinese girl who was Christian for part of the time, and that's about it. If I were to complain about every time someone told me that Islam was great, that Muslims were "superior"... or similar things about the Christian feelings of my teachers at St.Thomas' College, well....but we learned early that life is too short for that sort of garbage - and for the rest, the Islamic school had set out strict rules that I was not to be bullied on account of religion or nationality.

Will things work equally smoothly in every school, no matter how "secular"? Care to ask an Indian kid studying in a State school in Metro Atlanta in the great US of A?

BTW, the town where St. Thomas' College is located, is over 60% Christian. That made me a MINORITY! And can you believe it - they displayed religious symbols of the MAJORITY religion OPENLY in FRONT OF ME??? I guess I was too stupid, unlike Prof. Mathew, to realize that I was being terrorized!

When we carried the cricket mat back to the room under the pavilion at the stadium, the local kids walked behind us singing Xtian funeral songs to irritate us. Terrorists!! [Whine ]

Have alumni of St. Thomas' College ever participated in violence? Like the periodic stabbings and gang assaults, or the attacks with the bicycle chains? Maybe JackMP can comment on that?? [Smile]

Remember something called the "Palli-pada" ("Church-Army"?) Doesn't that make the Rev. Father, the Principal, a hate-mongering terrorist?

JackMP: Brother, how many places do you know where colleges with said two names are within 1-wall proximity? [Smile]

Bias of Sabrang

Posted by Arun_Gupta on 20 November 2002, 05:35 PM:

The full report is at

http://www.outlookindia.com/specialfeature.asp?fodname=20021120&fname=irdf&sid=1

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 05:53 PM:

N^3:

I am not disagreeing with the points you are making since they are legitimate. I would only like to point out that there is a difference between 'religious' organizations and 'political' organizations (whether cloaked in religion or communism or whatever). Most objections are to the latter, not to the former. And many organizations of the religio-political kind try to show any opposition to their politics as opposition to their religion as such. We should not fall for this trap.

In the former class, there are innumerable organizations that are doing good service and to which people donate money without a second thought. Ramakrishna Mission, Tirupati Devasthanam are some organizations that come to mind that are openly religious but have no political agenda. They are not opposed to other religions. Mother Teresa was another example, even though there are people who would object to her order's stand on conversions etc. I am sure there are Muslim organizations also of that kind too.

The objection is to organizations that genuinely promote violence and hatred, even amongst children. In my three years of work in Jharkhand, Gujarat & MP , where I often travelled into interior areas and interacted with people, though mostly on a work level, I have often come across these organizations. And there were organizations of this kind across religions. As well-wishers of India, we should be concerned that our money does not go to them, that is all.

Many organizations that spread hatred also do some good work at the ground level for the purpose of garnering support and to cloak their real agendas. The Al-Rashid trust is a prime example, though at a much different plane altogether compared to any organization in India. We should not forget the harm they are causing just because of the 'good work' that they also do. Nor should a fund like the IDRF in line with its stated objective.

Posted by mohankk on 20 November 2002, 06:47 PM:

I watched this gentleman Biju Mathews on Star News this morning and I could'nt believe the way he was going about. His main complaint was about companies like HP,Cisco,Sun donating money on behalf of their employees to Earth Quake victims of Gujrat and the tribals of Orissa - while they are not donating to the Gujrat riot victims.
I belive the said companies match dollar for dollar for their employee contributions to any charitable fund helping Indians struck by some natural disaster. Now the question may be asked to Indian employees of such companies - why did,nt they raise the fund for Gujarat riot victims ?? It is not fair to name and blame the said companies. Maybe they have a different agenda behind the whole issue. Who knows??

Posted by acharya on 20 November 2002, 07:07 PM:

quote:
Here is a link to the so called report and the related outfits

http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/2002/FEH/

http://www.sabrang.com/

http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/i_aii/pag_b.html

http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/

These websites were being quoted by Narayan_L in BR for quite sometime.
Anybody heard of the France base SOuth Asia Watch Group. Biju Matthew has been one of the first Indian from 1990 to monitor the Sangh activity in USA.

His articles in Rediff ( early edition) used to raise controversy and he targetted his attention on Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram when they started their drive for money in early 90s.

His main grouse is that corporate money is also going through these organization and hence started targetting the corporation to create controversey and show dirt on their hands.

Now in corporation(MNCs) there is always lot of drives for various humanitarian needs and some corporation actually uses only christian NGO to give money( I have personal experienec). But with increase in Indian employees worldwide any relief fund for India is being handled by Indians and lot of money is given by Indians themselves( Other nationalities have reduced their contribution). Now this has hit people like Biju who are front for other orgs and reduced their collection. This is basically a competition for the aid money which now is being increasingly directed by Indians themselves. Those dependent on international organization are seeing that they are slowly lower in the priority list.

Posted by narayanan on 20 November 2002, 07:14 PM:

Sridhar: the report does not base its accusations on politics, but on religion. The entire theme of the report is that organizations which IDRF entrusts to do the "relief" work are comprised of Hindus, and who seem to equate "Indian culture" with "Hindu culture".

1. The unthinking, blatant assumption made in the entire report is that such organizations cannot qualify to do "development" or "relief" but are by nature set up to impose a regressive, "revisionist", "Nazi-type" religious dictatorship in India.

They then show one or two examples where "followers" of local leaders of some of these organizations have been accused of being part of violent mobs.

Without presenting any evidence that these organizations or even the leaders actually incited violence or hatred, they thus associate the violent behavior entirely to "brainwashing" of the locals by these organizations.

The logic is that due to item 1, any organization which provides any funds to such organizations is thus "funding hatred". Hence their "single, simple conclusion" - that IDRF is funding hate.

Note: the conclusion is NOT that IDRF is funding the BJP - or the Congress. It is that IDRF is funding "hate".

The very obvious flaw in this reasoning is that the hate is primarily in the minds of the authors of the report.

For centuries now, Christian missionaries have been setting up educational institutions, hospitals, building roads etc. all over the world. Those who dedicated their lives to this, like Mother Teresa, most definitely had visions of developing societies which would be acceptable to their religious views.

And, most certainly, so-called Christians have been participants in violent mobs.

But the authors of this report, presumably surrounded by equally myopic and prejudiced types, assume that no Hindu organization can possibly tolerate a secular society where all religions are respected.

They completely ignore the reality of India's existence for the past 55 years while advancing this presumption of guilt.

Maybe it IS time to examine the motives of the authors carefully. I note that one of them is described as a Professor from New York. Did he write in this capacity? Or did he advertise it? The other one who has been writing such stuff is a Professor in the University of California. It may be time to examine who sponsored these works, and ask why those institutions are sponsoring hate.

A signature campaign might be most appropriate here.

Posted by Muppalla on 20 November 2002, 08:41 PM:

BTW, when did RSS became political Organisation? Last I heard it is still a non-political organisation.

Posted by GGanesh on 20 November 2002, 08:44 PM:

quote:
An Islamic school like the one you went to does not fail this test since I presume it accepts students of all religions and does not force those of other religions to study the Quran or its principles, even if it gives that option. Similarly Catholic schools.

Sridhar:
You are probably incorrect in your assumption here. I went to a Catholic school in good 'ol Mumbai and reciting "Our Father in Heaven......." was not optional. Nor is it, to my knowledge optional in any Catholic school. Note that my knowledge is primarily restricted to Mumbai. However, I would wager a healthy sum that extending that observation to the rest of India would not be far-fetched.

N^3 mentioned that he did attend the religious classes at the Zahaira School. Although he did not elaborate if those classes were compulsory or voluntary .

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 08:46 PM:

This is not a thread about RSS and hence it is best not to start discussing it. Suffice to say that people are not fooled by claims of such organizations of being cultural etc. If you wish, please open a thread and I shall be happy to discuss exactly why the RSS, Shahi Imam etc. are political. The same is never said about the Ramakrishna mission. Worth wondering why.

Posted by Anoop on 20 November 2002, 08:50 PM:

N^3,

Due to the fact that this report is receiving a good deal of publicity, it might be worth our while to systematically rebut as many of their accusations as possible.

For instance, the purpoted favoritism to Hindu as opposed to minority or secular organizations as beneficiaries (Fig. 2, Sec. 4). Is it possible to determine how many organizations of different faiths approached IDRF to be funded and how many of the minority faiths were turned down? If any such records exist, it may be worthwile pursuing that angle to show that IDRF does not discriminate on the basis of religious affiliation of the organization seeking funds.

Re. the idea of funding hate. The organization Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram comes in for particular mention for preaching hate. But in Appendix H, the money disbursed by IDRF doesn't mention anything given to this particular organization. The other organization mentioned was Sewa Bharathi, which according to Appendix H cumulatively got $751,020 or about 21% of IDRF designated funds. But the accusation against Sewa Bharathi is not that it is violent, but that it pursues a 'Hindu-consolidation' agenda. So, on a closer look, many of their conclusions are not validated, even if we choose not to challenge their characterization of these organizations.

In summary, my interest is in seeing that MNIF, which is a part of IDRF is not affected by this propaganda. Basically, I think our constituency should be large scale and corporate donors who may be scared off by this vilification campaign. In this regard, what purpose does a signature campaign serve? What claims would it endorse?

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 08:59 PM:

By the same token, in Kendriya Vidyalayas (erstwhile Central Schools, run by the Central Govt. and to which children of armed forces and other Govt. service personnel go to), we sang the prayer - 'Daya Kar Daan' - every morning, which started with a verse from an Upanishad (Asato Maa Sad Gamaya....) and ended with the Shanti Path from the Rg Veda. That was not optional. However, the fundamental difference is that a child who did not join those prayers would not be turned out of the school - the child in the Madarsa would be. Also, besides the morning assembly, I don't think secular schools (minority or otherwise) force students to go through relgious education. If they do, they should fail IDRF's test.

I don't want to comment on the policies of the schools run by RSS organizations towards religious education since the sample on which I will base any conclusions is very small (actually only two schools that I saw when I lived in a village in Central UP for 6 weeks). Will be grateful to anybody who clarifies this point since it is relevant to this discussion.

In sum, IDRF should remain within its stated objectives, irrespective of whether the institution being funded is Hindu or Muslim or Christian run - no organization that discriminates on the basis of religion or region or caste etc. should be funded.

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 09:04 PM:

Anoop:

If I understand right, the MNIF will directly support victims of terrorism in India and will not go through organizations. The easiest way to insulate MNIF from any troubles IDRF goes through is to point out this fact.

Posted by narayanan on 20 November 2002, 09:12 PM:

Ganesh: They were VERY careful never to compel me, but of course when you're in the 5-10 age group, and N-1 out of the N people in your class are occupied in something where you can't go pick a fight with them, you don't have many options. These days I would welcome the peace and quiet and go sleep under a tree, but in those days I just soaked up the knowledge.

Sridhar: These news reports speak of innocent NRIs being "duped". Here's the logic I used in 1998, when I imposed counter-sanctions and redirected investments, import-purchases and charitable contributions to India:

1. Anyone doing grassroots work (in India as anywhere else) does so for one or more of 5 motivations:
a. To cheat & enrich themselves, like Swamis RollsRoyce-anandas or General Musharraf
b. To win elections & political power (CPI-M in Kerala)
c. To run a drug trade or other smuggling/terrorist activity
d. As a business (e.g., United Way or CARE)
e. Out of religious beliefs

(e) is the best bet here.

Which gives me a choice of religions. I go with the one into which I was born, but look for an organization that advertises national rather than purely religious perspectives, and has a low overhead.

The choice holds firm today. There's nothing in the papers and reports that I read today which suggests any other course of action.

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 09:18 PM:

N^3:

I understand what you are saying though I do not agree with all your points. I don't see a fundamental difference of purpose in what you are saying and what I believe.

I shall not take up any more bandwidth of this thread since it serves no purpose and has the risk of derailing the thread. Meanwhile, I shall do a more thorough research of the IDRF in whatever time I get and not presuppose anything. Shall share anything I think is worth sharing, but only if it has basis, whether on the positive or negative side.

BTW, there are some, however rare they may be, that have a sixth motivation - of truly making a difference in people's lives without much personal gain to themselves, except a job with a reasonable salary (it is hard to find those who don't even want that). Hard to believe that they exist, but they do. Also, the question really before IDRF is whether those who claim to have the objective (e) actually have (b) as an objective.

Posted by narayanan on 20 November 2002, 09:23 PM:

Sridhar: Correction. There is a good reason why MNIF will also have to deal with organizations in India. IDRF HAS to deal with tax-exempt organizations in India to do the disbursement. IOW, IDRF or MNIF can only give money to legitimate, tax-exempt organizations approved to receive such funds by the GOI. In India anyone who receives funds from abroad has to have permission, unless its a close relative, and even then, the tax people will demand a letter.

This, ultimately, is why IDRF ends up dealing mostly with "Sewa International" or some such outfit - they know them, have worked with them, and they are set up to handle the funds effectively. My plan is to get military / police veterans' organizations / families organizations to hook up with the IDRF's local friends, and ensure that the $$ get spent wisely and fairly.

The religious missions that you mention, like the R.K. Mission, are no doubt honest, etc., but I think they have far less capability and efficiency. And there, except for R.K. Mission, I don't trust anyone at all.

Added later: Agree completely that Motivation 6 is the best of all, and I actually believe that the boss of IDRF is driven by exactly that -I've spent quite some time picking his brain. But that is a matter of having faith, and a personal judgement. The rest provides the "objective" backup reasoning.

Posted by Anoop on 20 November 2002, 09:26 PM:

Sridhar, I worry about the negative publicity that IDRF and by association, the MNIF is getting. Things shouldn't be allowed to come to such a pass that MNIF has to disassociate itself from IDRF in order to continue to attract funds. I say this because it seems reasonable that MNIF associated with IDRF in the first place in order to benefit in some way. Btw, MNIF also finds a place in Sabrang's despatches!

Even though MNIF is closest to my heart now, IDRF itself has been making it's presence felt among other India-specific NGOs. For instance, at the Serve India Forum 2002 held in Sept., IDRF was one of the participants. Prominent among others were Asha for Education, ICA, IDS and such 'kosher' organizations (according to this report). Will we see these organizations soon being branded fundamentalist too?

It seems worthwhile to take a fine tooth comb through this report.

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 09:31 PM:

Anoop:

I agree. There is a case for going over the report carefully and refuting lies and half-truths. Internally, those running these funds need to see how MNIF and IDRF can be insulated from accusations of political bias (since that is what the accusation is in essense - the authors of the report also have a political objective). It is important if IDRF is to meet its objectives of development and relief in India.

Posted by narayanan on 20 November 2002, 09:43 PM:

Before we get all excited etc., please consider this: I found it on another forum:

quote:
Please visit Sabrang's website @ www.sabrang.com/aman/index.htm Those maps of India are a caricature and should tell you whose side Sabrang is on - not on India's side but on Pakistan's.

I think this is from a letter sent to Rediff re: the Josy Joseph story. Maybe MNIF IS the primary target???

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 09:57 PM:

N^3:

The correct URL is
http://www.sabrang.com/aman/index.htm

Posted by John Umrao on 20 November 2002, 09:58 PM:

remove the period from N guru's quote you get the url mentioned. also I am amazed to see two girls from AP E. Godavari District mentioned in the letters.

Posted by Sahastra (Member # 2196) on 20 November 2002, 10:06 PM:

Dismembered India

courtesy: http://www.sabrang.com/aman

Did anyone notice the size and dimension of Pakistan with respect to India! And this is an Indian site, Eh! And these are the people talking about "Aman".

I had like to see their heads chopped off the way they have tried to chop off the head of my country.

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 10:08 PM:

I just sent them an email expressing my disgust. If you look at the map on the page, Ladakh is completely missing - presumably part of China in their view. This organization needs to be exposed.

Posted by Muppalla on 20 November 2002, 10:17 PM:

Read the articles from the following web site:
http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/

Mostly written by Candle walaas.

Posted by rknshah on 20 November 2002, 10:55 PM:

Hi,

At sabrang even the flag of India is wrong.The color , the spokes of the chakra and it is shown half and is merged with other half of Pakistan flag.

Guys, please send feedback to them on the map and the flag issues. have done so but more the merrier.

Best regards

Rakesh

Posted by Muppalla on 20 November 2002, 11:24 PM:

Okay here is what I have got from the search:

Sabrang Communications and Publishing Pvt Ltd(who don't like the shape of Indian map) is owned by some activist(may be like Arundathy Roy) couple called Javed Anand and Teesta Setalwad.

Eventhough they sometimes call themselves as non-political, their interview here proves otherwise.

They launched as Ad campaign during 1999 election campaign with the help of money from Congress and CPM.

http://www.humanscapeindia.net/humanscape/hs1199/hs11997t.htm

salient features of the interview:

The ad campaign is reported to have cost approximately 1.5 crores. Who funded it?
The Congress, CPI, CPM and about ten prominent individuals.

Do you see this as the beginning of a crackdown on NGOs opposed to Hindutva ideology?
Yes. It's the beginning of a larger crackdown on secular NGOs, a sign of things to come. It's a parallel of what's happening in Pakistan. There also the government is saying all money should come to the government which will then decide where the money will go.

The good thing is that all the organisations are veering to the position that this has to be fought unitedly. We are making it quite clear that we're all in it together and we refuse to get intimidated.

Till this notice happened there was fear. Under the previous home ministry over 100 permissions under FCRA to Christian organisations were been cancelled in the last 13 months. The United Christian Forum and others have been collecting data. We heard that in Tamil Nadu some FCRA registration numbers cancelled from Christian NGOs have been allotted to VHP organisations.

Posted by Sridhar on 20 November 2002, 11:30 PM:

The point about the Congress funding an organization that prominently displays Jammu and Kashmir valley to be a part of TSP and Ladakh as a presumably a part of China must be spread far and wide. (As I notice now, even the north-east is not part of the country in that map.) That will make the Congress think twice about giving the Rajiv Gandhi award to the Teesta Setalwads of the world or of funding them. How can this best be done in an apolitical manner?

Posted by Muppalla on 21 November 2002, 12:02 AM:

This will be useful to decipher the information and activities of these people and their agendas.

List of IDRF's bashers(Individuals and organizations)

Girish Agrawal
Angana Chatterji
Shalini Gera
Biju Mathew
Ali Mir
S. Ravi Rajan
A.K.Sen of The Asian Age

The Alliance for a Secular and Democratic South Asia

Sabrang Communications and Publishing Pvt Ltd

http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/hate.html

http://www.aiccindia.org/edit/edit21.html
(Lots of mud slinging here again quoting the famous Teesta Setalwad)

The Pakistani Terrorist Connection

I don't understand why most of the Pinkos give interviews and write articles for Pakistani websites/newspapers or the so called "South Asian" websites/newspapers when there are lots of news papers available to write their pulp readily in India.

Posted by jkarthik on 21 November 2002, 12:22 AM:

Teesta Setalwad is the same person who was quoted during the post-Godhra events by all the DDM.

Marxist Violence

Posted by Muppalla on 21 November 2002, 12:35 AM:

Most of the desis in US who are opposing IDRF belongs to FOIL(Forum of Indian Leftists)

Based on their activities and the pulp literature they are generating they can be easily called as "NRI Candle holders at Wagah"

Posted by Anirban on 21 November 2002, 01:08 AM:

Narayanan,

As I know you're actively associated with IDRF and I don't doubt your secular credentials, I have few questions to ask you sitting here in India.

1. I've gone through IDRF site many times in the past, and I have no doubt it supports the RSS backed Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram and Saraswati Shishu Mandir. Well, one can differ with the methodologies and the curriculum followed there, but as they're NOT illegal according to the law of the land, I don't see any problem if funds come in for this purpose. Afterall, the missionaries also do the same and we don't see any brouhaha over it. But the question remains is the role of Sangh Parivar in Gujarat carnage is well established. Can any one of you (as a fund raiser of IDRF) guarantee that the fund raised by IDRF will not be siphoned off here in India toi stage a few Naroda Patiyas?

2. IDRF site says It is not affiliated to any group, 'ism', ideology or political party. We work with hundreds of service organizations run by different individuals and groups in different regions in India.

May we know what help IDRF has extened to the minorities in India eg, those who bore the brunt of Gujarat carnage? We'd also like to know whether any penny has been disbursed to modernise the madrassah education.

http://www.idrf.org/frontpage/annual_report.html

The report clearly indicates that RSS backed organizations are its main beneficiaries.
So if IDRF clearly states its objectives rather than hiding under a non-partisan mask, then this kind of controversy will not arise.

Posted by Kaushik on 21 November 2002, 01:35 AM:

******** Off the topic *************

Hey Anirban, How about another Kolkata meet in December? Would like to meet you.

Also "modernise the madrassah education" ... interesting juxtapostion of words. Several oxymorons there IMO.

Kaushik

Posted by Anirban on 21 November 2002, 03:15 AM:

Hi Kaushik,

How are you? Long time no contact. Yes, I'd love to have another Kolkata meet. Sujitda was here in July, we had a great time in his house over a bottle of beer.

Let's keep the madrassah part at bay till you come here. [Wink]

Posted by narayanan on 21 November 2002, 07:14 AM:

Anirban: I can speak about MNIF. Please address all concerns about IDRF to [email protected]

I know as much about the rest of IDRF as you know - from the web. I've also met the person who started IDRF and I believe him when he says that his agenda is to help Indians. Period.

Data such as how many people of what religious affiliation (I guess that's what you meant by "minority communities") received IDRF help, and how many people from same communities CONTRIBUTED to IDRF, and how many specified to what projects their money should go, are certainly not known to me - they may be in those reports.

Someone here also suggested finding out how many "minority organizations" TRIED to obtain funding from IDRF. Valid question to ask [email protected]

Speaking of the same, of course, AFAIK, "tribals" are "minorities" in India. So you may consider starting your count of minorities right there. In Gujarat and Orissa, the families of victims belonging to "minorities" who were pulled out of the rubble were also certainly "beneficiaries" of IDRF.

The money sent to the Army Central Welfare Fund BY IDRF (I haven't checked how much that was, but I know how much I sent IDRF for the Kargil war effort) can also be considered to have gone at least in part to "minorities".

As you can see, the list is getting long, right off the top of my head. So I suggest you check, and let me know the answer. Thanks

Posted by Vikram on 21 November 2002, 07:52 AM:

IDRF facing flak (and possible closure).

US firms, NRIs being duped into 'funding hatred': Study
[URL=http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/nov/20josy.htm ]http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/nov/20josy.htm [/URL]

"The IDRF has funded numerous relief efforts in response to natural disasters, communal violence, and other social crises," the report says. "However, the distributive mechanisms utilised by the IDRF have consistently discriminated against Muslims and other minorities in India. The IDRF's relief efforts are frequently divisive and have supported the further communalisation of Indian society."

Mathew says IDRF did not raise any funds for the victims of the recent Gujarat riots, where most of those affected were Muslims. In recent times, the organisation has raised funds for Bangladeshi Hindu victims of communal violence, Kashmiri Hindu victims of terrorism, and relief efforts following the September 11 attacks in the US.

"In all three cases, the people responsible for perpetrating the disaster were Muslims, and the victims largely non-Muslim. In contrast, to date, IDRF has not announced any relief for the victims of communal riots in Gujarat in February and March 2002," the report points out.

Note the complaint here. The study report does acknowledge that IDRF disburses funds for social relief but since no funds were disbursed exclusively for minorties, lo behold ! IDRF is communal.

The report does acknowldege that IDRF has disbursed funds during natural calamities. Minorities may have been among the benefeciaries. But that doesn't count. Since no minority institution got funds exclusively, then IDRF is communal !

Sabana Azmi went around raising funds for Bosnian moslems. She is not communal ? The hapless victims of Gujrat violence (my heart sincerely does go out for them) may have recv'd funds from Islamic orgs (from within and outside the country). But IDRF didn't fund them. So that makes them communal ?

Who is to fund the relief works of Kashmiri Pandits if every such charitable org is branded communal ?

This has to be countered else IDRF will be equated with Al-Rashid trust.

Posted by Arun_Gupta on 21 November 2002, 08:07 AM:

The Christan Connection

Well, this is a challenge and an opportunity.

Of course, if the charges Sabrang makes have any substance (namely, money is mostly going to fund hate in India), then there is not much further to be said.

Otherwise, there is nothing more or less wrong about teaching Hindu exclusivism, as compared to teaching that one can be saved only by the Christian Gospel. And there is nothing wrong in supporting sectarian organizations. Since Christian charities are "OK" in degree of sectarianism, we can take that to be our standard, and ask if these standards are being met.

In that case, this is an opportunity for the organizations funded by IDRF to make use of the spotlight that is being shined on them, and to present to the public the work that they are doing, and the results they have achieved.

-Arun Gupta

Posted by Arun A on 21 November 2002, 08:32 AM:

I think IDRF and BRiites are dignifying this cr@p by discussing it.

Find a person who has admitted to killing abortion doctors. I am sure there is a way to link this person to the Christian coalition or any other Christian group by using innuendo like our Wagah candle brigade is doing.

The only way to fight this is by making another donation to IDRF.

Posted by narayanan on 21 November 2002, 08:33 AM:

Arun, yes, and what they do seems to be right out there in the open. Note that donors can specify what projects they want to support - and is there ANY credible allegation, even, that those specific requests BY DONORS are ignored???

Could it be that many of the donors (don't count me in that category) actually insist that their money goes to the work done by those specific groups that have received the money to do that work?

One of the many things that bothers me about the allegations is that they are basically the equivalent of the old trick of calling someone a "Thespian" in an accusatory tone. Those who do not understand either what they do, and don't take the trouble to find out if there's anything really wrong with it, walk away saying: "Wow! That's bad!!"

So far in my reading of the "report" in question, I've seen absolutely nothing which can't be said equally, if not much more, about other "Development & Relief" organizations which are of course carrying out their activities in India, or anywhere else. So I have to wonder about the motivation.

Consider an example of the logic used in this report. Supreme HQ every year sends money to the Atlanta Union Mission, which feeds homeless people at Thanksgiving and Christmas, and hopefully at other times as well. Definitely a Christian organization. United Way includes AUM as a valid recipient of United Way donations.

OK, I can be quite sure that at least a few of the recipients of food from the AUM (read "followers of Atlana Union Mission Leader Rev. XYZ" by the standards used in the "Report")
have been found guilty of crimes of many sorts.

Ergo!! Did you know that your United Way donations are being channeled to organizations involved in atrocities against innocents? If you read the Atlanta paper, trust me, the crimes reported here include some PRETTY atrocious ones. So - Ban United Way!!!

This is exactly the logic used there. Sounds so horrible as long as you don't think.

And then I see that the people behind the accusations are people who feel the need to explain, in clubbing MNIF under "sister organizations" in ominous tones, that "the terrorist war being referred to is being waged partly in Kashmir, and on the India-Pakistan border". That sounds criminal right there, doesn't it, to support Indians hurt in that war?

So I look further at the mindset of these people, and discover why supporting victims of a terrorist war in "Kashmir" would be bad from their point of view. And lo and behold! I see their "maps" of this "secular democratic South Asia" which they dream of. With ALL of Jammu and Kashmir, including those parts where 50+ percent of citizens went out to vote in Indian elections despite Pakistani terrorist threats, is included as PART OF PAKISTAN, where the status of "secular democracy" is known to all of us.

Is this a time to "explain what IDRF does" or is it time to "shine the light" under the stones where these accusers hide? How open are they about THEIR agendas? Where does that funding come, in FRANCE and US, to do their studies? Surely not from "Congress" in France??

Who in France or the US is interested in propagating those maps of "secular democractic South Asia"? Even CNN, which posted a somewhat similar map, withdrew it in haste in less than 18 hours after some of us demanded to know why they were putting up such terrorist garbage.

So there you have it. Yes, we need to bring the whole game out into the open, and have an explanation of the real agenda of these accusers.

Posted by Sai on 21 November 2002, 08:41 AM:

IDRF is tax-exempt per IRC 501(c)(3), and let's see what it says:

Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.

Posted by Arun_Gupta on 21 November 2002, 08:42 AM:

Yes, Arun A, my protest donation to IDRF is in the mail as of 8:00 AM this morning.

Posted by Sridhar on 21 November 2002, 08:48 AM:

While I don't have the luxury of sending a check today, my next check will go as per schedule. However, I think it is right for the IDRF to clarify things, not for showing its credentials to Biju Mathew and gang and not even to fulfil my right to know, but for its own benefit. It must lay down better procedures that allows it to keep to its objectives. If that is not possible, it should clarify its objectives and donors can decide for themselves whether they want to give their money to it or not.

Meanwhile, Sabrang and gang can go to hell.

Posted by Arun A on 21 November 2002, 09:08 AM:

I give money to the united way through payroll deductions. The united way supports some catholics organizations and churches in the DC area. I am sure i can find at least one church group funded by the united way that has faced accusations of pedophilia.

Ergo...my money is funding Pedophilia.

Narayan..

The people running IDRF should seriously consider legal action for libel. It is one thing to accuse the IDRF using innuendo, it is another thing to do so in a court of law.

Posted by Natarajan on 21 November 2002, 09:20 AM:

Why can't anyone in the esteemed newspapers of India (like say Varsha B or Rajeev S) write a detailed column rebutting these wild accusations of commie stooges? We need to press for the voice of sanity to be heard. While it is appropriate to expose corruption and biases in organizations why don't the newspapers cover in their ambit the so called secular (such as the Biju Matthew society) organizations?

Posted by Venkat R on 21 November 2002, 09:21 AM:

And how come these newspapers are throwing crap at these organisations?

In my opinion the news of "Congress supporting an organisation which believes kashmir belongs to Pakistan" would have been a better heading, rather than this. Especially because I am at a loss as to where the hatred was conceived? Who ever has started this, has really some motives behind, and the news papers picking it up is the most pathetic thing i have ever seen.

Posted by Aditi Parikh on 21 November 2002, 09:47 AM:

I had sent an e-mail yesterday to Mr. Mathew requesting a copy of the report (I didn’t know then that it was available on the web) and mentioning that I wasn’t happy with his attack on the IDRF and was dissatisfied with the evidence presented in the TOI news report.

I got back this reply.

quote:
Aditi:

The report is actually published by South Asia Citizens Web. You can
find the full report at: http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/2002/FEH/ The Campaign to Stop Funding Hate has started a campaign to stop funds to IDRF based on the report. I am entirely convinced based on the contents of the report that the IDRF is and always has been an RSS front. The report itself is detailed and provides enuf evidence. Please read it and communicate ur opinions after that....

Biju

So his basic point is this – IDRF funds the RSS which in turn is instrumental in spreading hate in the country and therefore this channel of funding must be blocked. Further, the report accuses IDRF of partisanship and not funding other smaller groups. Fine. But what of the partisanship of this specific group – this campaign which aims to stop spreading hate? Hate is not just a manifestation of distorted Hindu teachings, it is also a manifestation of distorted Islamic teachings, of distorted Christian teachings, of distorted XYZ religion/ideology teachings. We have enough of each of these in India. Then why this partisanship in fighting hate – why not make it a fight to stop ALL kinds of hate?

Here is the website of the The Campaign To Stop Funding Hate. http://stopfundinghate.org/

They have started a signature campaign to block IDRF’s funding….

http://stopfundinghate.org/cgi-bin/WhyStopIt.pl

There is absolutely NO other project in which they are involved in currently or in the past to stop “funding hate” except “Project Saffron Dollar”. This is clearly a “highly partisan” organization with an agenda of its own. And so, even though I am no fan of the RSS, I refuse to impart any credibility to their report.

Check out the links on their Mirror Sites – It makes me sick to see that almost each of them has articles reporting on the worst of India (true / false / distorted – I don’t know and don’t feel like checking them out). What kind of people have the energy to be so overwhelmingly negative and deliberately present to the world the ugly and ONLY the ugly side of their native home?

And I hate this – they have put a photo of Mahatma Gandhi on their site to represent to the world that their behavior would have garnered his support and is in line with his teachings. Such misuse and misattribution of motives!

Posted by narayanan on 21 November 2002, 10:01 AM:

Aditi: There is something quite eye-opening about the purported signors (Jaspreet: note correct terminology here [Smile]

) "signature campaign" other than that the authors of the report have not signed it.

BTW, I saw a report which mentioned that "11 professors" were the ones who unveiled the "Report" (and the webpage with the fine "south asia" map, I presume). Anyone have the names and affiliations? I was quite surprised to find what "university" "Professor" Mathew is affiliated with, but maybe the others are from better-known places? It would be interesting to see what in their backgrounds (or funding sources) drives them to this effort.

Also, Aditi, you may not be quite right in saying:

quote:
There is absolutely NO other project in which they are involved in

It could be that their previous enterprises had to be closed down in a hurry and they had to leave town with box cutters and hair color... For instance, please see the description of the "Anti-Communalism" effort so prominently featured on "Professor" Mathew's web page at the Computer Systems Institute .. That story seems not to have been updated since 1995, when they were in the process of sending an "SOS" to beg for funding to ------ and here's the kicker --- fund THEM at a measly Rs. 25,000 per month. In Mumbai. For the mammoth enterprise of publishing a newsletter, of course. They explained that their time was being wasted in turning down the hundreds of job offers they were getting at much more than that - didn't specify what for, though.

The instruction was to kindly send $$ to "The Singh Foundation". Anyone know more about the philanthropy of The Singh Foundation?

Perhaps they quit publishing that fine Journal and went into Democratic SouthAsian Cartography ?? [Confused]

Posted by Arun A on 21 November 2002, 10:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Venkat R:

In my opinion the news of "Congress supporting an organisation which believes kashmir belongs to Pakistan" would have been a better heading, rather than this.

The key to good propaganda is the appearance of moderation/non partisanship accompanied by enough hints to put your point across. The headline you suggest reveal your bias.

The right way to do this would be with a new article titled "Doubts cast on NRI group report". Within the news item, put across the point that "the authors are supported by groups that think..."..hint hint..wink wink.

Have you ever read the editorial pages of the New York times. They are very very good at this.

Posted by Arun A on 21 November 2002, 10:12 AM:

26% FDI in print may soon be a reality

Why is this posted here? Because FDI could make Indian media more market driven. Today, Indian media is run by a bunch of commie/leftists elites who think they rule the country. With a market oriented news media outlet catering to the views held by the majority, we may have a chance at a little less dorkiness..

Fox news caters to the non-liberal section of the US population. An Indian media outlet that doesnt regard CPI press releases as the gospel truth has a good chance of getting a large audience.

Posted by Sai on 21 November 2002, 10:23 AM:

Essentially, this is a slime attack.

The authors of the "report" know pretty well that legally they do not have a leg to stand on; that their "report" is worth its weight in pig-$hit.

Though on the face of it, the gameplan appears to be to intimidate donors into stop contributing to IDRF, their might be other motives as well. During the run-up to the last loksabha elections, Communalism Combat (hint: Teesta Setalvad) ran a series of "anti-communalism" campaign ads in the media. It emerged later that this Rs 2-crore crusade was funded by the Congress. HRW timed the release of its gujarat riots report to coincide with a crucial vote on Gujarat in Lok Sabha. The report quotes Setalvad very favourably.

Consider the backdrop to the release of the IDRF "report". Gujarat is going to polls in 3 weeks; and the Parliament is in session. What does that tell? Any thoughts?

Posted by Sai on 21 November 2002, 10:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Arun A:
26% FDI in print may soon be a reality

Why is this posted here? Because FDI could make Indian media more market driven. Today, Indian media is run by a bunch of commie/leftists elites who think they rule the country. With a market oriented news media outlet catering to the views held by the majority, we may have a chance at a little less dorkiness..

Fox news caters to the non-liberal section of the US population. An Indian media outlet that doesnt regard CPI press releases as the gospel truth has a good chance of getting a large audience.

But there appear to be a lot of dorks among the NRIs too. What else explains the subscriptions to NDTV?

Now let me establish, using the methodlogy adopted by Biju Mathew and gang, how NDTV is a Marxist outfit.

NDTV supplies programming to Star News. Five years ago, NDTV entered into what people in the media industry considered a sweetheart deal: a five-year contract for a lumpsum amount not linked in any way to the profitability or otherwise of Star News. The contract expires next March. Star isn't going to renew it.

Meanwhile, NDTV is now trying to establish itself independetly. Part of its strategy is to acquire a subscriber base abroad.

Prannoy Roy owns NDTV. Brinda Karat is his wife's sister. And Brinda Karat is chief of the Marxists' women's wing, AIDWA; Prakash Karat, the husband, is a CPIM politbureau member. In fact, Brinda Karat makes frequent appearances on NDTV, as do JNU humanities crowd and a horde of Marxist "intellectuals".

Ergo (putting on my Biju Mathew/Vijay Pershad cap here), NDTV is linked to CPIM.

Let people be aware of this fact when they are subscribing to NDTV. Spread the word! It's their choice if they want to fund the Marxists, but they should at least know.

Incidentally, NDTV is the channel which among the TV channles has given the maximum publicity to the IDRF "report".

Posted by Sai on 21 November 2002, 10:42 AM:

Talking of law, here is something, but not entirely, offtopic.

Sec 212(a)(3)(D)(i) of US Immigration and Nationality Act says:

Any immigrant who is or has been a member of or affiliated with the Communist or any other totalitarian party (or subdivision or affiliate thereof), domestic or foreign , is inadmissible.

In other words, immigrants with a communist background are to be barred entry into the States.

Anybody knows what's the INS stand on communists who enter with false claims of not being communist?

Posted by bala on 21 November 2002, 10:52 AM:

Once again in India we see news by opinions and not by facts. Someone accuses someone and this becomes news! How very tiring and boring. All the news that comes from Indian sources nowadays is insinuation, who said what about whom, leftist propaganda and negative bilge. Looks like the left communists pigs, Wagah candle holders, the christian evangelists, islamic extremists/al qaeda madrassahs are having a field day in the Indian press/media.

The only way to combat this latest slimy report is to go after the left/congress organizations. Someone is funding them to create chaos and anti-national activities and my guess is the usual suspects: China, TSP. We need to find out who is funding Mr. Biju Mathew and his tawdry reports that have dramatic conclusions.

Meanwhile this is an opportunity for IDRF to step up its campaign and solicit more funds. My protest to the latest crappy report would be more checks to IDRF.

Posted by narayanan on 21 November 2002, 11:35 AM:

I have a caution for people here:

DON'T assume for a moment that these attacks come from anyone who has anything to do with ANY specific religion or their programs.

In fact, the attack may very well be planned to MAKE it appear that a certain religion's fundraising organizations are behind it. But look carefully at the evidence so far - starting by looking at the List of Signors of the Signature Campaign.

Arun: I realize that this thread does give more "exposure" to the garbage. However, these worthies have been trying to attack IDRF for many years, and they haven't seen any real exposure themselves for it. Perhaps its time they got some??

Like: How many of those who signed that Signature Campaign knew that they were signing on for a "democratic, secular South Asia" which is 65% Talibanic Pakistan and 35% India? Maybe its time to expose these fellows clearly for what they are?

Posted by acharya on 21 November 2002, 12:37 PM:

N, There is one more angle to it. THis attack could be considered as a kick of the election campaign in India in about 10 months in 10 states leading to final general election in 2004.The target is the final general election in 2004.

The idea is to create controversy so that the political parties connected with these organizations are discredited in the minds of the less informed electorate.

Posted by narayanan on 21 November 2002, 12:43 PM:

Dumb question for the DOOs here: If you do a Google search from India, will you be able to hit most Indian newsmedia that published the report about IDRF? I hear that it has indeed got a lot of "exposure". I want to collect the names of those who wrote the media reports, and the media that published them. Might need them later....

The key words to use must be fairly evident now..

Posted by Rudra Singha on 21 November 2002, 01:06 PM:

Narayanan I would wait for 4 more days for the info to seep into lowest levels of tree and google spider to index them.

then collect the names. google has a news index
now which can be independently searched.

Rediff - Josy Joseph (surprise!)
The Hindu - Anjali Mody
TOI - no name
Outlookindia - A.K.Sen

Posted by Aditi Parikh on 21 November 2002, 01:26 PM:

Ms. Angana Chaterji, who is the second person to sign the petition, has been painting the internet red with her article on IDRF and Hindu extremism since much before this current exposé. The illustrious media which had the honor of carrying her articles and letters include prominent Pakistani and Bangladeshi newspapers. The article was published in:
Op-ed, The Asian Age, New Delhi, July 28, 2002.
Titled: Persecution of The Other

Op-ed, Daily Times, Lahore, July 21, 2002.
Titled: Indian Diaspora Funding Hindu Extremism

Article, Dissident Voice, US, July 2002.
Titled: 'For Dissent Against Hindu Extremism.'
And can be found on a host of other sites including the following:

http://www.sambhaav.com/readers.htm

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles/AChatterji_DissentAgainstHinduExtremism.htm

http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15082002/1508200240.htm

http://www.dawn.com/2002/08/06/letted.htm#2

http://paknews.com/PrintPage.php?id=1532&date1=2002-08-30&news2=headingNews

http://www.bangladesh-web.com/news/aug/01/ca01082002.htm

http://www.sikhspectrum.com/092002/angana.htm

More on Ms. Chaterji’s views on this page:

http://www.ciis.edu/faculty/chatterji.html

Angana Chatterji
Professor
Department of Social and Cultural Anthropology
California Institute of Integral Studies
San Francisco

Posted by Aditya_C on 21 November 2002, 02:14 PM:

Please please someone tell me that signature no. 261 is not related to our Lt.Gen. Zaki. [Frown]

Posted by malnv on 21 November 2002, 03:22 PM:

Interestingly only TOI carries the idrf bashing on their frontpage, and note that The Times of India was the one who spoke with Biju Mathew.

none of the other leading newspapers including==

NDTV, sify, hindustantimes, thehindu, deccanherald, rediff.
have it.

looks like TOI is a party to the campaign.

Posted by Ravi on 21 November 2002, 03:43 PM:

The campaign by Mathew and his group has already started showing effect...
IT giants plug funds to Sangh

quote:

In a formal communication, Sun Microsystems stated that all current donations to the IDRF have been placed on hold pending a directive from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).
...
Similarly, a Cisco spokesperson said the company had terminated all matching donations to the IDRF.
Mathew says other mega-corporations like Intel have promised to study the report thoroughly and see that they do not commit the same mistake.

It’s significant that this report has been released at a time when the annual charity season begins in the US, which normally stretches from Thanksgiving Day to Christmas. It has also come at a time when companies like Cisco were planning to triple their matching employee grants this year.

In 1999, the report says, the Cisco Foundation gave almost $70,000 to the IDRF, placing it among the top five of Cisco grantees.

Unfortunately, these biased report by Mathew is not being countered by anyone, either the IDRF or anyone else. They are having a field day [Mad]

Posted by Muppalla on 21 November 2002, 03:51 PM:

This is slowly turning out to be very ugly. IDRF needs to pursue legal route to challenge these guys.

It is apparent from the above report, TOI is in lead over others in reporting this matter.

Posted by shyam_s_p on 21 November 2002, 04:07 PM:

They are attacking IDRF methodically and with vigor.

IDRF should maturily handle this and curb any damage caused by the malicious campaign.

IDRF works conservatively and they never intended and spoke ill of other Indian organizations or people. It's time they defend themselves and future-safe from any future campaigns.

They (those I know in Bay Area) work with great humility and very dedicated to help India. Being largest Indian NPO, no wonder they are target of many other India groups who don't positively contribute anything to India.

Posted by narayanan on 21 November 2002, 04:12 PM:

What stops people from writing to top management at Sun, Cisco etc. and presenting the "credentials" of the organizations making the accusations? Like the Al Qaeda map of "southasian democracy"?

IDRF may be "conservative" etc. but there's nothing to make people outside IDRF that way...

Posted by Sai_NT on 21 November 2002, 05:04 PM:

the biggest of my concern is the topic of this thread. .. who is the hate organization? how do one define it? facts and statistics please.

I was thinking parivar is just saying indianize all religion. I never heard of them saying ban other religions.

From this thread, anyone can collect data associating RSS and IDRF strongly and no denials. Hence, the topic should be renamed as "supporting RSS" or development of India!.

imho
-Hey stop saying anything to the fact relaaating me to parivar, I am not a parvaric.

Posted by Arun_Gupta on 21 November 2002, 05:13 PM:

Please note more carefully :

quote:

In a formal communication, Sun Microsystems stated that all current donations to the IDRF have been placed on hold pending a directive from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). “Any non-profit and non-proprietary organisation that has been granted 501(c)(3) tax exempt and public charity status is eligible to receive matching gifts from Sun Microsystems,” it added. The IDRF, it observed, does not appear on the IRS list of agencies known to support terrorist activities.

Posted by Arun_Gupta on 21 November 2002, 05:23 PM:

This web page, http://www.hinduweb.org/home/seva/sewa/Delhiintro.htm says

quote:

The Delhi Government in recognition of the outstanding services rendered in the field of child welfare, gave awards to Sewa Bharti in the years 1991, 1994, 1996 and 1998.

Which party controlled the Delhi govt. in these years ?

Posted by naman on 21 November 2002, 05:33 PM:

BJP controlled Delhi Legislature for most part of the mid-late 1990's. Not too sure about early 1990's.

Posted by Aditya_C on 21 November 2002, 05:35 PM:

Forget about who ruled Delhi when.

Think in terms of a tit-for-tat on those who have launched this malicious propaganda.

Posted by narayanan on 21 November 2002, 08:27 PM:

As someone predicted, this campaign is turning otherwise "secular", mild-mannered, kindly people into angry, determined RSS supporters. Supreme HQ, of all people, has declared a freeze on contributions to several organizations, in order to redirect them. Claims that such attacks don't occur against Israeli-American organizations because they are much better united, quotes Francois Gauthier, etc. [Eek!]

Posted by Aditya_C on 21 November 2002, 09:05 PM:

Indeed, we have seen the enemy: it is us.

And it does not sink lower than this: unless I'm seriously mistaken, one of the signatures on this Marxist hate campaign happens to be that of none other than the son of one of our most respected Lieutenant Generals.

Posted by Sridhar on 21 November 2002, 09:34 PM:

aditya_c:

are you basing it on the surname? There are probably several Zakis in the US, 4 listed in my city's directory alone. In any case, Gen Zaki has given more to the country than any of us and dragging his name without anything but a nagging suspicion is incorrect.

Posted by Sridhar on 21 November 2002, 09:38 PM:

Posted by Aditya_C on 21 November 2002, 09:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Sridhar:
aditya_c:

are you basing it on the surname? There are probably several Zakis in the US, 4 listed in my city's directory alone. In any case, Gen Zaki has given more to the country than any of us and dragging his name without anything but a nagging suspicion is incorrect.

Sridhar, I am well aware of this, and would be most glad to proven wrong.

Please check it out with a google search. I'm still hoping I've got it wrong.

Posted by narayanan
At some point, it may become appropriate to post here the names of all those who signed that, but I agree - not now - and lets definitely not speculate in public on who is who there. They certainly have a right to their opinions without being presumed to be motivated by hate - which of course is more than the Petition-Originators are willing to allow those of us who donate money through IDRF for causes dear to us, which have nothing to do with hating anybody, and everything to do with helping Indians - ESPECIALLY Indians who serve in the law enforcement and defense services and risk their lives for the nation, to keep it integrated.

I note that the Petition itself originates from a Stanford, CA address, and the "contact" is a P.O. Box at Stanford. Does this mean "Stanford University"? The look and feel of the web page indicates so.

So does this mean that Stanford University endorses the use of their servers for propaganda such as the maps published by the commercial organization which is behind this effort? Or does Stanford accept funding from this organization? That I think is worth investigating, and publishing, with a copy to Stanford authorities.

Posted by Sridhar on 21 November 2002, 10:11 PM:

Let's not slander anybody based on google searches of names or even locations. Further, even if somebody has signed that campaign, it may have been in good faith. Finally, nobody has a monopoly on patriotism.

Till now, all that has been proved on this thread that some of the organizations (esp. Sabrang) behind the report are dubious at best and probably much worse. It is not clear to me yet whether or not IDRF funds and therefore, in part my funds (that I did not designate for any particular organization) have inadvertantly or otherwise been used for spreading hatred. We may have our biases and that is fine, but let us not question others' patriotism on this basis.

Posted by bikram on 22 November 2002, 12:15 AM:

BIJU MATHEW and CO

http://bijum.hypermart.net/

PROFILE OF BIJU MATHEW- A PROFESSOR OF RIDER UNIVERSITY-

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/data/indiv/area/idsas/MATHEW,Biju.htm

SOME INDIGESTION OF MATHEW-

http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/jan/03vhp.htm

Posted by narayanan on 22 November 2002, 07:01 AM:

Sridhar:

quote:
(esp. Sabrang) behind the report are dubious at best and probably much worse.

Sridhar: Please look carefully at the map of this "secular democratic south asia" that is posted on Sabrang's web page (SAME organization that sponsors this "Petition" etc.), and please try to decide whether it is "dubious" or "much worse". That map is not something on which people can really disagree a whole lot - places which are very much a part of the Republic of India, where elections were held as recently as a few weeks ago, are shown as part of Pakistan.

By your criteria, there should be a lot more "dubious" about the Al Qaeda and the Taliban, shouldn't there? I've never seen an Al Qaeda web page which advertised itself as such.

As for witch-hunts, note that the stated aim of the Petition sponsors (I mean Mathew) is to "root out" all those who SYMPATHIZE with organizations like RSS, in American companies. Please read the Times of Islamabad report for confirmation of your doubts on this. So is it illegal to SYMPATHIZE with organizations which are perfectly legal and highly-supported by Indians?

Now for the SYMPATHIES of the originators of the Petition: Here's a sample:

http://pd.cpim.org/2001/march25/march25_biju_vijay.htm

Admire the cool gif animation of the Red Hammer & Sickle.

Here's another:

http://www.proxsa.org/resources/ghadar/v1n2/biju.html

I wonder if the signors of the Petition know these, or were they "duped"?

Here's what American law at present has to say on the subject (Homeland Security):

quote:
The USA Patriot Act (November 2001) included several post-September 11 revisions to the Immigration and Nationality Act. Section 212(a)(3)(B) regarding "Terrorist Activities," states that any alien "who is a representative of a political social or other similar group whose public endorsement of acts of terrorist activity the Secretary of State has determined undermines United States efforts to reduce or eliminate terrorists activities," or "has used the alien's position of prominence within any country to endorse or espouse terrorist activity, or persuade others to support terrorist activity or a terrorist organization," is inadmissible.

Examples of aliens also ineligible for visas include those that fall under Section 212(a)(3)(C), regarding "Foreign Policy," which states that "any alien whose entry or proposed activities in the United States the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds to believe would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United State is excludable."

Additionally, Section 212(a)(3)(D), regarding "Immigrant Membership in Totalitarian Party," states that, "Any immigrant who is or has been a member of or affiliated with the Communist or any other totalitarian party (or subdivision or affiliate thereof), domestic or foreign, is inadmissible."

There are exceptions to this clause which can be found in the Immigration and Nationality Act.

Now I have NO idea whether Prof. Mathew is a "member" or "affiliated with" the Communist Party .. but maybe those who sign that Petition ought to wonder what they signing???

Posted by narayanan on 22 November 2002, 08:28 AM:

Now for the other side of the story: How much truth is there in the attacks on CISCO, SUN etc. by the Mathew / Sabrang crowd?

I hope the Admins will tolerate my posting quotes from something found elsewhere - a discussion on Sulekha.com, commenting on the Rediff article. My request as well to Mr. Shyam Palletti, who must be one of those "SYMPATHIZERS" (like me) whom Mathew/Sabrang have promised to "go after":

http://www.sulekha.com/hoppercomments.asp?cid=267402

quote:

From: Shyam Palleti
Subject: A response to Rediff article titled "US firms, NRIs being duped into 'funding hatred': Study"

... All the money collected in Cisco went to
right causes and was accounted and reported to IRS. In the case of this $133K, the projects that used the money were monitored to completion not only by IDRF and their affiliates in India and many non-IDRF volunteers whose kith-and-kin were affected during the Orissa Cyclone in 1999.

The same group including me that collected $133K also helped Rediff in 2000 for promotion campaign in Cisco. We're pained to know that Rediff is
giving space to such malicious campaign. We're pained to know judgement to give promotion Rediff is wrong than helping IDRF.

ASHA, AID, CRY and some other Indian NPOs also have many volunteers in Cisco and other corporations. Why didn't others raise money and help victims of Cyclone or earthquakes? In fact, some leaders from these organizations then
in 1999 donated (small amounts though) to the ~$133K pool. Along with IDRF, people donated to Redcross also. Employees controlled where money
went in IDRF pool but Redcross money was sunk with no accountability for us except trusting that Redcross was well-spread organization.

Many organizations have volunteers in corporations and push more appeals than IDRF (based on how many email appeals are circulated in internal Indian mailing lists). IDRF earns more money than others because people are aware of the work done by IDRF and so money is sure to
go into right causes and not because people are duped. The word "duped" is insulting to employees who build innovative networking products and because of whom we can communicate with ease.
I don't think this article causes anybody to reduce their help to IDRF but only incense them to think that media is not India-friendly.
These kind of articles may have negative effects on working for Indian causes and thus loss for India.

I request Rediff to post articles countering these campaigns. Also, please do research and post all the funds and sources and organizations
that donate to India and what activities they are engaged in. The readers will get clear idea to make right decisions.

I also request Rediff to encourage India friendly journalists and articles that positively benefit India. Please pass this mail to executive team in Rediff.

Thank you.
-Shyam Palleti

***********************************

My question: Anyone seen anything on Rediff in response to this? Forget about Times of Islamabad..

Posted by Sridhar on 22 November 2002, 08:38 AM:

N^3:

I have expressed exactly what I feel about Sabrang long ago in this thread and directly to them. See the first post on page 2 for instance.

I have an irritating habit of trying to be careful with words (though not always being successful) when anybody is being accused, till something is proved without a doubt. That holds for even those organizations I dislike passionately. Please ignore this as this is a habit that has come out of trying to anticipate reviewers' objections. Even in the 'dubious at best but probably much worse' - any objective eye would note where my sympathies lie - towards the much worse because the word 'probably'.

Anyway, this is a useless discussion about semantics. I was pointing to the work that is required to go through the report and come out with a point by point rebuttal. Though discrediting the source will also go some way in reducing the credibility of the report itself but it will not go all the way.

The reference to Al Qaeda / Taliban is unnecessary since this discussion is not about me. I shall not take up issue with you on the matter in the interest of the thread and because I genuinely respect your views, but my humble request would be to not prejudge people on their beliefs and patriotism without knowing anything about them.

Posted by Sridhar on 22 November 2002, 09:11 AM:

Incidentally, check out the website from which they have sourced their reference 29 in Chapter 3.

quote:
Shyam Parande: RSS goes global, chalks out expansion plan, by Suresh Unnithan in The Observer, April 3, 1998 http://www.markazdawa.org/rss.htm

Posted by narayanan on 22 November 2002, 09:13 AM:

Sridhar, I understand, and I think this has been a terrific thread, where we have laid out the facts and considered what they mean, openly and without fear. Thanks very much.

Its VERY clear that Sabrang.com is an unabashedly anti-Indian outfit which promotes disintegration of India. As such, it is "natural" that they sponsor attacks on organizations and people who try to help India.

The extent of their "duping" is awesome. The claim to represent "secular, democratic" interests, the smiling countenance of Gandhiji right next to their message... We're clearly dealing with "professionals" here, in the sense that Al Capone was a "professional".

The bottom line is the intent of these folks is to stop money going to development projects in India.

Are they driven by concern for the riot victims of Gujarat? Really? Their "investigation" of IDRF appears to have started in 1995 or so. IOW, they KNEW the Gujarat riots were coming, heh? Maybe they knew about the planning for the Godhra atricity too??

I do believe that once we have "understood the pitch and the bowling" it is necessary to turn those careful forward defensive pushes into straight drives for four. [Smile]

Posted by Aditya_C on 22 November 2002, 09:20 AM:

Before discussing the possible element of truth in some of the allegations, it is imperative to launch a vigorous counter-attack on these dubious organizations. Going into nitty-gritty at this stage will cause the war to be lost.

There is a possible plan of action that can be pursued but which cannot be discussed publicly. It is however a fairly simple game plan.

This has to go offline, unless of course all one intends to do is debate, conjecture and increase one's BRF post count.

It also depends on how much one cares for this cause and whether one is in a position to stick one's head out.

Posted by SSridhar on 22 November 2002, 09:39 AM:

Isn't an inaccurate map of India a criminal offence in India ? How can one bring it to the attention of the authorities concerned ? I could not get an e-mail address for the Home Ministry.

Posted by Rudra Singha on 22 November 2002, 09:45 AM:

As expected the big US cos do not want any adverse publicity and have quickly washed their hands.

This is a known behaviour and the exact target of the attack. those matching grants help a lot.

we shall see.

Posted by swagat on 22 November 2002, 10:06 AM:

Rudra This is what i did when i donated the money to Gujarat quake victims.
Since the company that i worked for didn't have this matching dollar policy i gave that money to my friend who use to work for Nationwide Insurance which had this matching policy.
So guyz from Cisco or Sun could do the same thing when they donate money to idrf.org.

Posted by bikram on 22 November 2002, 10:22 AM:

RSS sources here, however, sought to refute the charges of misuse of funds and asserted that the allegations were being made on behalf of people who were losing out in the race for conversion of Hindus in India.

Following the release of a report in India by a group of Indian Americans from San Francisco, FIACONA leader PD John on Friday drew the White House’s attention to the controversy. According to him, more research is underway “to unearth other RSS affiliated
organizations that raise money through business corporations and other foundations in the ..

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_107322,00050001.htm

Posted by John Umrao on 22 November 2002, 10:25 AM:

A Roy, Vinod Mehta, Hey Ram
Apna hi sikka khota

Kya Karen?

Posted by Sai on 22 November 2002, 10:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
As expected the big US cos do not want any adverse publicity and have quickly washed their hands.

And how did the Marxist verbal terrorists manage to generate that publicity? Through a well coordinated action plan executed through a well-placed network of chums in the media.

Think about it. If these hate-mongers kept screaming their lungs off at that dinghy den, stopfundinggood.org, nobody would have taken a serious note of them. The attacks in the news media made all the difference.

I repeat: just make sure nobody buys a subscription to NDTV. Those who already did must send a stinker to ndtv.com, telling it to feel free to terminate their accounts.

How do ToI/HT expect to milk NRIs? We need to find out.

I happened to visit an orphanage in Hyderabad. I saw cheerful, healthy children there, and was much impressed by the dedication of overseers. I had not heard of IDRF at that time, much less know the fact that IDRF funds that orphanage. I discovered the latter only yesterday, when I browsed thru its website.

To deprive those orphans of what would have come to them is to let evil succeed over good.

To begin with, let us make sure nobody buys an NDTV subscription.

Posted by Rudra Singha on 22 November 2002, 10:40 AM:

is Zee TV in anyway linked to the scum. its lot more pervasive than NDTV.

Posted by Vikram on 22 November 2002, 10:41 AM:

OK.. we have all expressed enough rage at the Commies. What next ? Do we even counter this or do we let IDRF counter it and we provide outside moral support ? If we counter it, what would our strategies be ?

1. Write our own report picking the holes in the Biju's report. An item by item rebuttal.
2. Expose the communist links, political motives and vested interests of Sabrang and SAW group.
3. Clear the misgivings of corporate donors, IRS and others by exposing them to proper facts.
4. Strengthen IDRF by doubling our personal contributions.

I am going to act on No.4 right away.

Posted by Aditya_C on 22 November 2002, 10:54 AM:

Admins, what about enabling private messaging? A lot of people will be having genuine ideas, but everything cannot be discussed in public.

Posted by v_john on 22 November 2002, 11:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by SSridhar:
Isn't an inaccurate map of India a criminal offence in India ? How can one bring it to the attention of the authorities concerned ? I could not get an e-mail address for the Home Ministry.

National Codes of Conduct issued to the The Press Council of India- Clause 43:
http://www.presswise.org.uk/India.htm

Publication of wrong/incorrect map is a very serious offence, whatever the reason, as it adversely affects the territorial integrity of the country and warrants promped and prominent retraction with regrets.

LEGAL PROVISIONS: http://www.surveyofindia.gov.in/instructions.html
The topographical and geographical maps published by Survey of India are authoritative official documents of the Govt. of India, who have from time to time issued instructions to States/Union territories to ensure that the external boundaries of India on various kinds of maps including those included in text books and atlases are depicted correctly.

Publication of maps depicting inaccurate external boundaries and coast-lines of India tantamounts to questioning the territorial integrity of India and is a cognizable offence under the Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1961. It is possible that some of the publishers may not be aware of the harm and embarrassment, these inaccurate maps cause to the Government and the legal penalties for publication of such maps, intentional or inadvertent, attract. In this connection the related extracts of the following Govt. of India. Acts and Notifications are reproduced below:

Section 5 of Official Secret Act, 1923 (Act No. 19 of 1923).
The Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1961 (Act No. 23 of 1961).
Section 14 and 63 of Copyright Act, 1957 (Act No. 14 of 1957).
Notification No. 19-Cus/F.No.405/18/75-Cus.III dated 6.3.1976. [ Issue under Customs Act, 1962 (52 of 1962)]
Notification No. 227 customs F.No. 405/3/80/Cus.III dated 29.11.1980 [Issued under customs Act, 1962 (52 of 1962)]

SURVEYOR GENERAL'S OFFICE

Post Box No. 37, Dehra Dun - 248001
Phone No.: 0135-748025
Fax No. : 0135-744064

Posted by narayanan on 22 November 2002, 12:08 PM:

OK, so who wants to "bell the cat"?

We have 110 posts here, but none that comes up in the list if someone types "RSS IDRF" into the web. Or "Campaign to Stop Funding Hatred". Do you think that state of affairs can be changed????

E-mail address for the Surveyor General of India is

[email protected]

Please inform them about the site showing Paki versions of maps, from Mumbai.

http://www.sabrang.com/aman/index.htm

Here are the contact details:

AMAN,
PO BOX 28253,
JUHU POST OFFICE,
JUHU, BOMBAY 400049

See suggestion below (sent):

To

Office of the Surveyor General of India
Post Box No. 37, Dehra Dun - 248001
Phone No.: 0135-748025
Fax No. : 0135-744064

Namaste.

We have been seeing considerable publicity on the internet for a map published at the website

http://www.sabrang.com/aman/index.htm

This map (as we saw it from here) shows India missing Jammu&Kashmir, Ladakh and Assam, and Pakistan including ALL of J&K and Ladakh.

Here are the contact details for the site, as we could determine them:

AMAN,
PO BOX 28253,
JUHU POST OFFICE,
JUHU, BOMBAY 400049

Indians and friends of India have been exerting very considerable efforts continuously, trying to get the western media such as CNN,, ABC etc. to stop publishing such offensive maps which support the global terrorist enterprise. We trust that you will forward the address of this offending site in India, to the proper authorities, and we hope to see it shut down without delay, and the actions and intentions of its perpetrators thoroughly investigated. Thank you.

Best regards

Posted by Natarajan on 22 November 2002, 12:23 PM:

Can someone articulate enough type up a nice form letter that we can all sign and send to (1) Surveyor General of India (2) Rediff (typically less biased against IDRF despite recent diatribe by Josy Joseph) and (3) Prime Minister, President and Leader of Opposition in GOI (Leader of opposition since she also heads the party that financed this malicious sabrang organization))?

Posted by raj singh on 22 November 2002, 01:07 PM:

Narayanan

Quote from another board....

The top ten signatories:

10 Chadha, Ashish Stanford University CA, USA
9 Deo, Ashwini Stanford University CA, USA
8 Srinivas, Chukka Woburn MA, USA
7 Ravishankar, Ra Champaign IL, USA
6 Mittal, Anuradha Oakland CA, USA
5 Borchardt, Marilyn Oakland CA, USA
4 Gera, Shalini San Jose CA, US No more charity dollars f
3 Agrawal, Girish San Jose California, USA Also need to expose/inves
2 Chatterji, Angana San Francisco CA, USA
1 Barot, Raj Berkeley CA, USA

Posted by Rudra Singha on 22 November 2002, 01:13 PM:

this chadha fellow is a big pooh-bah of stanford chapter of ASHA.

not surprisingly is a grad student of cultural & social anthropology. seems to be a direct disciple of Proj chaterji and wendy doninger?

Posted by Rudra Singha on 22 November 2002, 01:14 PM:

http://www.ciis.edu/faculty/chatterji.html

Posted by Amitabh on 22 November 2002, 01:24 PM:

Whether there is a leftist campaign against IDRF or not, whether this is related to the Gujarat elections and to domestic politics or not, I for one am not too pleased that 82% of any money I might have given is being directed towards RSS-affiliated organizations. I do not support their political goals, and if the IDRF disproportionately funds them without being up front about it, then there is a problem. Let's not whine about "oh what's wrong with these organizations, aren't they doing good work". It is a fact that the Hindutva movement is (1) political and (2) controversial, and any obfuscation on this point is IMO unacceptable.

I am not denigrating any genuine development work done by RSS-affiliated groups (e.g. post-disaster relief), but that isn't the point. For instance, a glance at the list of IDRF affiliates shows groups ranging from our own MNIF to the One Teacher School system. Now the OTS, also known as the Ekal Vidyalaya network, is directly affiliated to the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. This is true of some of the other affiliates as well. In fact, the affiliates list of IDRF sister organizations closely corresponds with the list of RSS sister organizations.

So what's the point? That there is a clear preference for RSS-affiliated NGOs. Given the fact that many potential donors may not want their money to fund a political movement's sister organizations, the IDRF needs to be more up front about its funding patterns.

Posted by acharya on 22 November 2002, 01:32 PM:

AMithabh, This does not mean they should start a propoganda of 'funding hate' when the receipients are charities in India( COuld be rss supported). That also does not mean getting signature campaign from Pak supporting people and groups.
This is bigger coordinated plan for a changing the mindset of less informed groups of people who donate every year in India and divide them.

IDRF is a messenger but it is being targetted. They should focus on the recipient.

Posted by Sridhar on 22 November 2002, 01:49 PM:

Looking towards the future, is there a contingency plan for the MNIF? As Amitabh has pointed out, independent of this particular controversy, whose sponsors I could care the least about, there are 'issues' that IDRF will need to address. If it is able to satisfactorily resolve these issues of political and ideological affiliation/bias, well and good. In case it is unable to, is there not a need to consider future steps for the MNIF? I am assuming that the MNIF does not want to be associated with any political group or ideology - at least I would want it to be completely independent and focussed on its noble agenda of 'India' and 'Indians'.

Posted by bala on 22 November 2002, 01:51 PM:

I think there is need to counter this left oriented hatred bile effectively by other means. IOW, No additional effort needs to be spent on venting in this forum. Effectively, the people who donate to IDRF understand the organization, are well educated to delineate the crud from substance. Most of the organizations that receive IDRF funds help the needy folks in times of crisis. The real battle seems to be the left oriented tussle with corporate America. Companies like Sun, CISCO will not turn off matching funds based on spurious media reports. There are clear laws for matching funds that prevent ad-hoc rules. People need to write to their respective companies and highlight their desire to give charity dollars to IDRF and at the same time rebut the false propaganda and point out the inconsistencies and anti-national activities of the left organizations.

Posted by Sai on 22 November 2002, 01:56 PM:

To contribute to ANY charity without checking up its antecedents, is, to put it mildly, a bit naive. Browsing thru the IDRF website should make it clear as daylight even to the meanest intelligence that IDRF funds RSS-affiliated orgs. To feign surprise ("my money is going to ekal vidyala, whine, bwaaaarf!") isn't going to convince anyone.

If you think your money shouldn't go to RSS-freindly charities, STOP contributing to IDRF, period.

But to run a slander campaign, as Marxist slimeballs are doing, that to fund IDRF is to fund hate, is, well, beneath contempt.

After all, Marxism is an intrinsically genocidal ideology that murdered 80 million people worldwide. It is the ideological cousin of fascism, and is completely out of tune with the humane, liberal ethos of 21st century. Only the day before, Marxist terrorists killed 15 class enemies in Andhra -- all poor tribals.

I'm interested in knowing what is it about these followers of a genocidal, totalitarian ideology that self-proclaimed liberals find so credible. After all, to believe in Marxist propaganda is to believe in hate.

Posted by Sai on 22 November 2002, 02:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Sridhar:
Looking towards the future, is there a contingency plan for the MNIF? As Amitabh has pointed out, independent of this particular controversy, whose sponsors I could care the least about, there are 'issues' that IDRF will need to address.

What are those 'issues'?

I find it hard to believe that until the time a few Marxist fanatics banded together to release a "report" that talked in hush-hush cospiratorial tones of IDRF's funding patterns, every do-gooder was innocently in the dark about the shocking fact that the org also funded charities close to the RSS and its affiliates.

I think this pretence needs to be dropped.

Either IDRF is funding hate or Biju Mathew and gang are spreading hate.

I think this thread has run its course. Let's start another, and put the "report" under the microscope.

Posted by Rudra Singha on 22 November 2002, 02:05 PM:

Aha! the C-word. Controversial. In whose minds ?

All of us can read, an all the details have been available at IDRF websites. There are ample options to fund whatever orgs one desires.

Posted by nabendu on 22 November 2002, 02:12 PM:

To counter Biju Mathew please check the web site of Ghadar http://www.foil.org/resources/ghadar/ghadar.html
a publication of Indian Leftists (officially declared). Biju Mathew
writes regularly here (check Vol. 2, 3, 5 etc).

IDRF should immediately use this info for mass campaign saying that Mathew's recent columns are just natural communists' outbursts against the nationalist forces in India.

Also check
http://pd.cpim.org/2001/march25/march25_biju_vijay.htm

The silicon Valley majors who might have stopped matching funds to IDRF on Mathew's allegations should be asked whether they have trust in COMMUNISTS.

Posted by Amitabh on 22 November 2002, 02:12 PM:

So Sai, am I correct to read you as saying "Yes, the IDRF is RSS-affiliated but it's your job as a donor to figure this out somehow"?

My responses are:

(1) your argument is different from the previous ones above, and

(2) Not everyone has the time or wherewithal to research the antecedents of a charity's affiliates, even though this would be the smart thing to do. You and I happen to know a bit more about the RSS' sister organizations than the average donor. The whole controversy has gained momentum precisely because of the the concerned groups' attempts to hide their affiliations.

There are lots of patriotic persons who want to support such work in India without being associated with a particular political agenda. I imagine your (and this forum's) reaction would have been different if the CPI(ML)'s front organizations -- or perhaps some BSP-affiliated organizaaations -- had been the beneficiaries of the IDRF's (or anyone's) disbursement.

I sense that reflexive anti-leftist sentiment here is interfering with commonsensical notions of what the right thing to do is.

Posted by Sai on 22 November 2002, 02:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Amitabh:
I sense that reflexive anti-leftist sentiment here is interfering with commonsensical notions of what the right thing to do is.

Not at all Amitabh.

I rather suspect that your reflexive anti-RSS sentiments are making you fire your arrows from the shoulders of some very disreputable Marxist characters whose anti-India propaganda is there for all to see.

The right thing to do not to believe stuff that suits your political prejudices, but to make your own enquiries with an open mind. OPEN MIND, that's very critical.

Is my money going to the needy? Is it being spent for the purpose I intended it to be? That should be the question.

Posted by Natarajan on 22 November 2002, 02:24 PM:

Note how words are twisted - Now the agenda is fairly clear. The IDRF itself now is RSS affiliated and it is not merely giving charitable contributions (even if they may be mandated by the donors) to RSS sponsored/started charitable organizations doing relief work. These arguments are helping me become even more determined to support IDRF since if these people merely used insinuations instead of facts that leads me to believe they have none to support their arguments.

Posted by Rudra Singha on 22 November 2002, 02:26 PM:

would like to see some proof what 'hate' is being taught in the funded schools. as for relief work and orphanages there is no question of hate.

every penny of the billions that Xtian charities collect and pump into various schools, colleges and orphanages throughout the world is 'suspect' by the same yardstick.

Posted by bikram on 22 November 2002, 02:43 PM:

IDRF rfutes strongly the allegations atlast-

http://www.indiaabroad.com/news/2002/nov/22idrf.htm

Posted by Sai on 22 November 2002, 02:45 PM:

Ok, where is the beef?

Sections 1,2 and 3 of the "report" are complete garbage. The standrad Marxist rhetoric on "hindutva". They are meant to smuggle in the "hate" part of the allegation.

Not much of substance in chapter 5 either.

The data, if it maybe called that, is in section 4. All of this culled from IDRF annual reports accessible to anybody who cared to peruse them.

Now, there's something very fishy going on in this section. The authors of the "report" project IDRF funds into some certain categories. Note that these categories ("educational", "religious" etc) are defined by the authors. They are not how IDRF describes them. These are the authors' definitions, devised to arrive at a pre-arranged conlcusion. It is a classic case of fitting data to suit the theory. For example, money spent on tribal projects is characterized as "Hinduization". And thus, voila, 82% of the funding becomes "sectarian".

But even after going through all these contortions, the authors fail to provide ANY direct evidence that monies are funding 'hate'. The conclusion is arrived at through inference.

Any jackass may have an opinion. What is needed is fact.

So where is the fact?
Merge with existing thread - Admin
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Muppalla on 22 November 2002, 02:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
would like to see some proof what 'hate' is being taught in the funded schools. as for relief work and orphanages there is no question of hate.

I don't understand onething here. IDRF has clearly has many channels to fund. This funding to Ekal Vidyalada will not go from MINF or Gujarat Earthquake relief. Everybody who has interest to donate for a school clearly knows about Ekal Vidyalayas and their affliation to VHP.

Please show me somebody who can donate a $100/- just without asking what is Ekal Vidayalaya and who are implementing them when some volonteer approaches ?

Danations are not so free flowing comodities for someone to just donate even without knowing what they are donating to. Volunteers do a lot of hardwork and explanation work to get donations for a cause. I simply cannot buy the argument that people blindly donate to orgs without knowing what they are doing.

This one point "accidental donation" argument is so cheap and an excuse to defame IDRF.

On another point CISCO, SUN etc are not donating to all the Channels of IDRF. All they are doing is matching the money contributed by their employees for DISASTER reliefs.

All we need to ensure is whether the relief is being distributed without discrimination or not. Again here also we can't buy the argument people are donating without looking into ancedents of the collecting organizations.

For relief funding lots of companies have contributed to Red cross.

The real problem is after IDRF has become popular the pinko sponsered funds are not getting contributions to their expectations and they vented out using this method.

Posted by Sai on 22 November 2002, 03:05 PM:

Funding the "violent" activities part.

Now the "proof" for this is really bizarre. Runs like this:

1. There is a Swami Ashim Anand in Dangs who allegedly spread terror among local Christians in 1999.

2. This swami belongs to Vanvasi Kalyan Parishad (same as Ashram?) For proof, the Marxists quote from IDRF site: "Swami Asimanandaji is in charge of the Ashram’s activities in this district." and cleverly omit the rest of the paragraph: "The Vanvasi’s are of a lower caste and people from the surrounding communities did not associate with them. Swamiji goes personally to homes throughout the district. He talks with them, eats at there homes----breaking down this barrier." As an aside, how the $#$$ is it "Hinduization" to bring down caste barriers?

3. IDRF funds Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram

4. Ergo, IDRF funds violent activities. QED.

This kind of argumentative technique is a recurring theme in the entire report. Any straw to clutch at is ok for our Marxist sleuths.

Like somebody commented perceptively, per BijuMathewsLogik some of your domation monies might be funding paedophile priests, please check out.

Posted by Rudra Singha on 22 November 2002, 03:17 PM:

cisco only paid matching grants for disaster relief - like after the Orissa cyclone.

now csco donor foundation is saying for future disaster relief they will partner only with red cross. for all non-US domestic giving (dunno the exact meaning..sounds like non-disaster?) they will work with 'due diligence specialist groups' who will advise and track compliance. they will also use US,UN,EU filter lists to screen terror supporting orgs.

I dont think csco has given anything for non-disaster work. what was given in 1999 was matching a drive by VIDE (csco & other volunteers) to raise funds for orissa disaster relief.
there was another internal drive for gujrat drought relief.

communique says they are investigating the allegations..which means some outside agency deployed to investigate.

hopefully its not Chatterji & Doninger Consultancy! [Whine ]

Unsubstantiated attack on Hindus

Posted by Aditi Parikh on 22 November 2002, 03:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Sai:
[QB]Funding the "violent" activities part.

Now the "proof" for this is really bizarre. Runs like this:

1. There is a Swami Ashim Anand in Dangs who allegedly spread terror among local Christians in 1999.

2. This swami belongs to Vanvasi Kalyan Parishad (same as Ashram?) For proof, the Marxists quote from IDRF site: "Swami Asimanandaji is in charge of the Ashram’s activities in this district." and cleverly omit the rest of the paragraph: "The Vanvasi’s are of a lower caste and people from the surrounding communities did not associate with them. Swamiji goes personally to homes throughout the district. He talks with them, eats at there homes----breaking down this barrier." As an aside, how the $#$$ is it "Hinduization" to bring down caste barriers?

[QB]

Sai,
Good of you to point this out. I read through a few of the links which are used as sources including the one on SEWA Bharti. The link talked about maintaining social harmony and cohesion and had several examples of a swami attempting to break the caste barrier and promote intermingling with the "lower" castes and "untouchables". On the basis of this "evidence" the report says that the money is being used for "hinduisation" and "religious" purposes and not for any "developmental" activity. I would say that if there has been a genuine attempt at removing caste barriers, then that is the biggest type of "developmental" activity India can see. I question the term "Hinduisation" - any disbursement of Hindu education is Hinduisation according to this report. I don''t see how this is illegal or evil. The examples metioned on the SEWA site do not mention any other religion - I certainly will not count it in the sammme league as the exclusivist "Hindutva" nonsense which the RSS has propagated (and which I don't agree with).

In a way, I am amused by the report. On one hand it talks about how Hindu society has this class of "untouchables" which are treated shabbily and on the other hand it lists links which talk about promoting removal of caste barriers as being responsible for "Hinduisation" of the society. The authors of this report sure are one confused (and malicious) lot!

Attack on IDRF

Posted by Ranadheer on 22 November 2002, 03:44 PM:

IMHO, the immediate task is to tell as many people as possible that IDRF funds are not funding hate. Can some one write an essay explaining the suspect nature of the study and that the donations are not being used for discrimination on religious line but purely for charity? We can start emailing the essay to people.
A summary at the top would be nice as not all may not have time to go through the essay.
With Indians like these, who needs pakis for enemies.

--Ranadheer.

Posted by Muppalla on 22 November 2002, 03:56 PM:

All these companies are matching the funds that their employees are donating that too only towards DISASTER relef.

No company will donate Non-disaster relief to any org like IDRF. Nobody spends money just like that without returns atleast in the form of publicity. They will do on their own if it is non-disaster funding. Example Bill Gates all the way went to India for funding AIDS control.

Posted by Yen Soy on 22 November 2002, 04:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
...they (csco) will also use US,UN,EU filter lists to screen terror supporting orgs.

US, UN, I understand.

EU? Why the carte blanche for EU lists? Can it be argued that this is discriminatory?

The problem with Commies (who lovingly misrepresent themselves as "leftists" - a term better used to describe people like me) is that they are totally out of touch with reality. The reality is that there is a huge segment of Indian population (many urban, many middle class, many NRIs) who neither agree with the Commies, nor with the right-wing "Hindutwadis". For the Commies it is the Dullesian "you are with us or against us".

The strength of these rabble-rousers lies in their nuisance value - they get more publicity than their due, partly because many of them are in US non-teaching oriented academia - where the goal is to publish regardless of quality. Since they label themselves "leftists", they draw supporters of dialog, the environment, the new world order, and those who fear religious fundamentalism. Of course, there is a healthy dose of Pakis who are quick to jump onto any vehicle that gives them parity with Indians.

Posted by Amitabh on 22 November 2002, 04:19 PM:

Sai,

Let me repeat: My complaint is not that the IDRF mostly funds RSS-affiliated organizations. It is perfectly entitled to do so, and I am sure that many of these groups do good work. The point is (and I am making a stark contrast intentionally) that there are many human rights organizations in Punjab that have undoubtedly helped innocents jailed by the Punjab Police, but which also have an ideological (Khalistani, anti-PAP, what have you) agenda that I disagree with. I have a perfectly open mind w.r.t. human rights, but I refuse to fund them. I expect charities that channel funds to Naxalite fronts, Congress fronts, RSS fronts and Rastafarian fronts to be honest about it.

If an education-oriented charity were to fund a number of education projects including an RSS-funded one, that would be legitimate even if a p-sec like me objected. But it seems that the IDRF focuses mostly on RSS-affiliated charities. I repeat, since there are many potential donors who may prefer not to have their money travel to a political cause, the IDRF should be up front about this.

Do your best to convince me why I should fund an RSS-affiliated project in some part of Madhya Pradesh, but don't hide (or underplay) this.

Posted by Venkat R on 22 November 2002, 04:36 PM:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/nov/22idrf.htm We are not duping NRIs, US firms: IDRF

Posted by Arun_Gupta on 22 November 2002, 04:47 PM:

Amitabh :

My understanding is that IDRF is a collection point just as United Way is a collection point. As far as I know, when I give to United Way, I get to specify which charity and even which fund in the charity (e.g., I can give to American Red Cross : New Jersey disaster relief fund). As far as I know, this is exactly the same as with IDRF.

So, there is no question of duping anyone here, because, you the donor, are giving to a very specific fund. The corporations that match employee donations are not being duped either.
Of course, if you want to, you can make a general donation to United Way or to IDRF, but then it goes where its leadership thinks it ought to go - but that was your choice.

You see how it works - e.g., Sewa Bharati or Vivekananda Center need not register as an American charity so that American donors to it get tax benefits. It registers with IDRF, and IDRF is a registered American charity. So it makes giving streamlined.

IDRF claims not to discriminate; and so if you have an instance of an Indian Muslim or Indian Christian or Indian Leftist org. that wanted to register with IDRF, and was denied by IDRF, then you have a valid complaint.

Posted by Abhijit_ST on 22 November 2002, 04:58 PM:

quote:
IDRF claims not to discriminate; and so if you have an instance of an Indian Muslim or Indian Christian or Indian Leftist org. that wanted to register with IDRF, and was denied by IDRF, then you have a valid complaint.

IMO even in that case there no valid complaint. It is entirely within the purview of IDRF as to which organizations it will allow to register with itself (India and US are both democraciees, right?). Imagine tomorrow if a SIMI-backed organization wants to avail of the funds collected by IDRF and tries to register itself with IDRF. IDRF would be completely within its legal (and ethical, noral) rights to refuse this request. As for IDRF 'advertizing' itself to be anything (such as funding RSS-backed charities etc. if at al they do so), why should it? Just as in the marketplace there is a 'buyer beware' policy, there is a 'donor beware' understanding in charity.

Posted by Rudra Singha on 22 November 2002, 05:06 PM:

Let me predict the next wave of attack:

Get all these 'RSS-linked' orgs into a EU watchlist. US wont really comply (not the republicans) and UN is too messy. Western europe has great openings for these 'refugees, prisoner of conscience, oppressed' types.

wont be long now boys and girls. one these dawgs will rear up on hind legs and raise the issue in EU HR conference / forum / press citing this report as a axiom.

perfect case of falsehood & slander being used as a 'tunnel' to attack more targets. SEAD ops if you will.

Posted by malnv on 22 November 2002, 05:06 PM:

or in other words, it needs to be proved that relief work during orissa cyclone /gujarat earthquake; there were instances when a particular community was denied help on basis on religion. IMHO, there are no such instances and therefore not mentioned in the Hate Petition.

So "Hate" for what?? for own views?

Posted by narayanan on 22 November 2002, 05:21 PM:

Amitabh:

quote:
So what's the point? That there is a clear preference for RSS-affiliated NGOs.

I think this is from one of your posts. However, you do seem to have dropped this line of argument and now gone on to: "Convince me why I should fund ..."

Sorry... if you are over the minimum age where you are allowed onto the internet, there is no need for anyone to convince you to fund anything. Take the trouble to visit the web-site, see if you are comfortable that your money will be spent well (in your judgement).. and if you don't agree, hold on to your money and spend your time instead - to criticize those who spend their money to see if some good can be done. Much more fun!

Now back to your first argument. Have you counted the percentage of the US budget that goes to "fund" white Christian, Anglo-Saxon people? Isn't that gross injustice? Why not start a boycott against that?

Do you have evidence that IDRF discriminates against people who vote Congress, for example? Or Communist? I've seen none. They've never asked ME which way I would vote...

So.. lets see. 82% of IDRF collections goes to organizations which are set up to receive funds from abroad, obey Indian law to the letter, and pass it on to grassroots organizations, with what appears to be near-zero overhead ( I don't know HOW near zero - even they must have internet subscriptions and phone bills to pay, at least), since they do have a web page. These organizations appear to have "Hindu" leadership.

Hmm!!! Lets see. What's the percentage of Hindus in India again???

And here's the statistic that I have not asked IDRF, but I suspect I know the answer, just by looking at MNIF donations and extrapolating: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF IDRF DONORS, AND DONATIONS, ARE EITHER FROM HINDUS, OR MATCHING FOR DONATIONS BY HINDUS???"

Could there be a trivially simple reason why the vast majority of donors are happy with the organizations which, mind you, RECEIVE the funding for disbursement?

There is NO basis for arguing that 82% of recipients are Hindu. In fact the primary allegation by the "REPORT" is about recipients who were born NON-HINDU.

So lets see: The donors and donations to the organization are X% from Hindus (X being somewhere between, say, 80 to 99.999% ). The organizations that do the tough job of satisfying the minutiae of Indian Law and receive the $ from the US are.. run by Hindus. Then they take the money and distribute it - and VOILA! the recipients are some Y% NON-HINDUS (where Y >> 0.001%, and Y > 20% ).

Crime: Hindus pay money to Hindus to help non-Hindus!! Is that hateful or WHAT!!

Commies and Pakis vely vely upset. Sure, you'll now say, the issue is that "hate" was funded.. but so far, there's not an iota of substance in those allegations. Just a lot of criminally dishonest twisting of "facts" by sixth-rate so-called "professors".

OK, folks, how about an assignment? Two people to take each "Chapter" of the "report" and dissect it. There are some 10 chapters, Appendix etc. Need serious volunteers, please. Compare the statements in the Report with the numbers and sources that they CLAIM to quote - because several of those "quotes" have proven to be gross lies already.

I expect the "rebuttal" to take 182 pages at least..

Posted by Sridhar on 22 November 2002, 07:26 PM:

Sai:

I have been stating right from the beginning, that it is in IDRF's interests, in keeping with its stated objectives, to remove any doubts that people may have. It may be unnecessary in terms of time and expense and it may not seem fair to them, but it is a reality that they should face head on. Any corporate entity faced with such a situation would take efforts to keep its stakeholders informed and satisfied that it is keeping to its objectives. IDRF needs to do that, irrespective of whether the propaganda is malicious or not. This is the realistic thing to do - communicating its procedures and reform where it finds it necessary. As N^3 pointed out, it would probably get even more funding if it actually went out in overt support of the RSS etc., but I am presuming that it is true to its own standards, which iI quote below

quote:
It is not affiliated to any group, 'ism', ideology or political party.

http://www.idrf.org/reports/indiapost/ResponseToOutlook.html

In conclusion, there is a risk of IDRF being dragged into politics in India (with even external agendas imposed). It needs to assure people and by people, I don't mean the Biju Mathews of the world but well-meaning donors who give it money because their personal objectives coincide with IDRF's stated objectives, that there is no subterfuge of any kind. That is not too much to ask for. It would reduce the efficiency of IDRF somewhat, but would only benefit it in the long run.

Posted by Sridhar on 22 November 2002, 07:28 PM:

IDRF has come out with a response on its website. I don't think it was posted on the thread before.

http://www.idrf.org/pressrelease112202.html

quote:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
November 22, 2002
India Development & Relief Fund (IDRF)
North Bethesda, MD
Ph. (713) 562-1920 OR (408) 296-5424

IDRF Dismisses Hate Campaign Against IDRF Launched by Leftist Groups

IDRF, a non-profit, non-political, non-religious organization based in Maryland, U.S.A. rejects the allegations made by leftist groups based in the US and India, who launched an anti-IDRF Hate Campaign in New Delhi on November 20, 2002. After reviewing the initial press reports in Indian newspapers, which gave details of this malicious report, IDRF dismisses the allegations made by the groups as pure concoction, untruthful and self-contradicting. The report by Biju Mathew is merely a string of allegations, manipulated skillfully by piecing together information available on the IDRF web site. The main theme of the Hate Campaign seems to be that IDRF is "duping" non-resident Indians (NRIs) and US corporations to fund the activities of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) in India. These allegations do not stand up to any rational scrutiny. Donors to IDRF are among most well-informed of the donors to any South Asian non-profit charitable organizations operating in the US.

IDRF questions the credibility, motives and the political agenda of these splintered and virtually unknown groups that have launched the Hate Campaign against IDRF.

IDRF does not subscribe to any religious, political, or sectarian agendas. Furthermore, IDRF does not discriminate against any religion, sect, or race in either the collection or distribution of funds. Contrary to an impression created by the report circulated by these leftist groups in the news media, IDRF does not shun any organization based on its ideology, religion or affiliation, as long as the given project supported and monitored by IDRF, fully meets US Laws that govern IDRF as US-based charity of choice of Indian Americans. The Government of India and related authorities may be contacted for details on the requirements for NGO status.

IDRF Focus Areas

IDRF focuses on five key areas: education, healthcare, women, children and tribal welfare. In addition to these development projects, IDRF also works actively for relief and rehabilitation efforts in the event of natural calamities such as the Orissa Cyclone in 1999, the Gujarat Earthquake in 2001, and human conflicts such as the Kargil War. IDRF works with various NGOs who are actively working in the above-stated areas to fund projects to serve Indians.

IDRF NGO Selection and Fund Distribution Process

Other than donor-designated NGOs, there is a well-defined process to select NGOs for receiving funds. IDRF employs professional and recognized methods to identify, qualify and distribute funds to NGOs. As a part of this process, each NGO is required to submit a Statement of Work (SOW) before IDRF grants funds. Additionally, grants are distributed to an NGO in a phased manner once appropriate documentation is required. Further details on the NGO selection and fund distribution process can be obtained by contacting IDRF at [email protected].

About IDRF

IDRF is a non-profit, non-political, non-religious and tax-exempt organization registered under Internal Revenue Code, Section 501(c)(3) (Tax ID 52-1555563). Founded by ex-World Bank economist, Dr. Vinod Prakash, IDRF has been a favored means for thousands of donors in the USA who wish to contribute to various development, relief and rehabilitation efforts in India. Since its inception over 14 years ago, IDRF has directly benefited tens of thousands of poor disadvantaged children, women, and tribal Indians. Complete details of IDRF funded projects, recipients, beneficiaries, funding policies can be found in its web site, http://www.idrf.org./

Posted by Sai on 22 November 2002, 08:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Sridhar:
Sai:

I have been stating right from the beginning, that it is in IDRF's interests, in keeping with its stated objectives, to remove any doubts that people may have. It may be unnecessary in terms of time and expense and it may not seem fair to them, but it is a reality that they should face head on

I see it quite differently.

The terrorist dictator across the border slings dirt on India on a daily basis.

Doesn't mean that India has to keep explaining, does it?

(As an aside, the Marxist bigots in question have a lot of love for this dictaror, so perhaps it's not surprising that they adopt his methods.)

As far as IDRF's interests are concerned, I am not convinced that any of its donors are going to back out because some hate-monger is throwing dirt on it. If anything, we have only seen here a renewed determination from people not to be cowed down. My hats off to them. The ones who are chickening out are the corporates who have been giving matching grants. But that is the expected corporate behavior and will remain so as long as the Marxist slimeballs manage to generate adverse publicity in the news media.

Make no mistake: the crusade against IDRF is meant to terrorize donors and their employers. Give the campaign the same treatment that you'd want given to crossborder terrorism.

Posted by Manavendra on 22 November 2002, 08:42 PM:

IMHO, it is not enough for IDRF to just defend itself. It (or its supporters) must now go on the offensive and rip these liars a couple of new ones.

These whiners (like Sabrang) have a well-designed mechanism for getting publicity: they use all of the "nasty" words from the western history of 20th century ("fascism", "discrimination", "apartheid", etc.) to get quick attention of the western press.

Instead of poring through websites, why didn't these scumbags go to a couple of these so-called "hate mongering" organizations that are funded by IDRF, and see for themselves what was going on?

Posted by M.T.Wheeler on 22 November 2002, 08:42 PM:

For more information on the calibre of messrs. Mathew, Prashad & co., see for example, their letter to the New York Times of May 14,'98, publicized on the entity called the South Asia Citizens Web at
http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/NYT.html
which begins with "The recent nuclear tests conducted by India under the BJP minoritygovernment is intended to send a jingoistic message to China, Pakistan and to the entire world."
and concludes with "India must renounce the nuclear option to restart a moral campaign to
denuclearize the world. This is the only sane solution, but one not viable if the BJP remains in power.". This rag is also signed by a whole list of like-minded worthies -- a list worth going through.

From another bit of garbage at http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2001-04/25prashad.htm
we are informed that Biju Mathew is Professor of Business at Rider College (New Jersey); Vijay Prashad is Director of International Studies at Trinity College (Connecticut) and author of "Karma of Brown Folk" (Minnesota, 2000). Both are co-founders of the Forum of Indian Leftists (FOIL) and members of the collective of Youth Solidarity Summer (YSS).

With antecedents like these, one can't expect anything better than the bile these gents spew out. Incidentally, Rider college seems to exist after all, though it styles itself "Rider University" -- see http://www.rider.edu/ .

Posted by Sridhar on 22 November 2002, 09:32 PM:

IDRF's rebuttal on Rediff
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/nov/22idrf.htm

Posted by shyam_s_p on 23 November 2002, 01:02 AM:

LET is a terrorist organization listed by India and US.
http://www.geocities.com/johnathanrgalt/#But_most_interesting
http://www2b.abc.net.au/news/forum/forum43/posts/topic13147.shtm
"The website of a terrorist support organisation, the Mulahideen Laskar-e-Taiba, is http://www.markazdawa.org./ "

Now, the report includes a terrorist site as source of information.
http://www.sabrang.com/hnfund/sacw/part3.html
"29. Shyam Parande: RSS goes global, chalks out expansion plan, by Suresh Unnithan in The Observer, April 3, 1998 http://www.markazdawa.org/rss.htm.
"

Posted by shyam_s_p on 23 November 2002, 01:08 AM:

People are being duped by these radicals.

=============
"During the past year, we have spoken to a number of people about creating some sort of a clearinghouse for radical Indian activists in the United States, Canada and England:"

"Contact Sangeeta Kamat and Biju Mathew for volunteering on this project. "

"Our bourgeois 'leaders' and their friends in Washington need to get a wake-up call which blows their eardrums: I think we can in our noisy, desi manner concoct something suitable. Let FOIL be that noise!"

http://www.proxsa.org/resources/foil/foilpg.html

Posted by Anirban on 23 November 2002, 01:10 AM:

IMO, in its rebuttal IDRF has skipped the most vital point raised by Biju Mathew et al, ie why a whopping percentage of IDRF's money goes to fund the activities of the Sangh? Why there is no mention of the religious minorities who're one of the most economically, socially downtrodden part of our society?

I won't say what IDRF is doing is illegal, because funding Vnavasi Kalyan Ashram, Sewa Bharatis are not illegal as per the Indian laws. But in that case IDRF should clearly state its objectives rather than harping on "IDRF does not discriminate against any religion, sect, or race".
The Christian missionaries too do the same thing, and they're more candid about it (at least in their websites, altho' not that much in the fields).

Another area of concern is the Sangh engineered recent carnage in Gujarat. If IDRF is really a funding agency of RSS, then could it be possible that a part of its funds went off to fuel the hate campaigns? Biju Mathew has specifically raised this charge. I've glossed over his report but couldn't find any substantial evidence in it.
This is the gray area where more investigations are needed before jumping into any kind of conclusion.

every penny of the billions that Xtian charities collect and pump into various schools, colleges and orphanages throughout the world is 'suspect' by the same yardstick.

Guruji makes a valid point. But in that case you know you're donating money to a Xtian missionary which has a religious motive. But IDRF claims it is a secular body.

Posted by John Doe. on 23 November 2002, 03:00 AM:

It seems that Biju Matthew is in the USA. If IDRF can disprove his allegations, I would suggest that instead of merely issuing a statement, that IDRF take Mr Matthew to court and sue him for libel and/or slander.

I have noticed a lot of self-hating in the Indian media and from left wing Indians. If there are no consequences for the drivel that these people put out, why should they stop? Arundhati Roy, Biju Matthew, etc should all be sued in every country and territory that their work is published in. Once they start feeling the pinch in their pockets, they will not be able to shut up quick enough or be more honest in their work.

These people either don't care or don't understand that their defamation causes suffering and death.

Posted by narayanan on 23 November 2002, 07:15 AM:

Someone here says that IDRF has not addressed the main allegation - that IDRF funds went to aggravate the Gujarat riots. In the next statement, they stated that in "glossing" over the report, they could find NO real evidence of anything of the sort.

I've done a bit more than "gloss over" the report - and I STILL don't find any evidence. Could it because there ain't any to find??

Sure, a minor point like this would not stop Times of India or Josy Joseph or any of the other dorks who blared these headlines - but could we be a bit saner?

Now lets see the logic in that allegation. I can think of several major political parties groups in India:

Congress
BJP
Communist
Muslim League
Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam

There are several groups nominally associated with specific religions, which support one or more of these at any given time:

RSS
Catholic Church
Shiv Sena
Muslim groups
Sikh Akali Dal
Northeast Christian groups
Hurriyat

There must be some Budhist, Jain, Zoroastrian, Jewish, and many other such groups here as well. Please don't get offended if I forgot your particular favorite extremist group - not at all intentional.

Now lets take the major sagas of violence which I can remember.

Kashmir terrorism movement, 1947 - present.
Northeast terrorism movement, 1960s - present.
Bengal Naxalbari ("Naxalite") movement, 1960s-70s.
Anti-Hindu movement in Punjab, 1970s-80s.
Anti-Sikh riots in North India, 1984
Babri-Majid-related riots, 1992
Gujarat communal riots, 1947 - present, periodic.
Mumbai communal riots, 1947 - present, periodic.
Anti-Hindi riots, Tamil Nadu, 1965
Anti-South Indian Riots, Mumbai, 1960s - present, periodic
Anti-cow-slaughter riots, North India, 1960s.
Kerala: Marxist violence, 1960s - present, continuous.
Kerala: Naxalite me-too murders, 1970s.
Kerala: massive land thefts by Communists, 1960s - present.
Kerala: obstruction of education and industry - Marxist, Congress, u-name it, 1960s to present, continuous.
"Vimochana Samaram" ("Liberation Struggle") Kerala, 1960s.
"People's War Group" atrocities, Andhra, 1990s - present.
"Palli-Pada" murders, assaults and mob violence by Catholic Church groups, Kerala, 1970s - present.
"Ethnic Cleansing" of Hindus from Jammu-Kashmir by Islamic Terrorists, 1980s to present.
"Ethnic Cleansing" of Hindus from Northeast states by Chinese/Pakistani/US-Christian funded terrorists, 1960s - present.
Violence against poor people, Bihar, 5000BC - infinity.

My apologies to any violent groups whose "achievements" I have failed to included.

I could do a cross-correlation between those religious/political groups and these violent events, and show that no one gets left out.

So whom can I give money to, in order to get it efficiently to the hungry and illiterate people who need it the most in order to have an opportunity to come up?

No, "Only Govt. organizations" is not an adequate answer - because the Govt. is invariably run by one or more of those political groups, which I can correlate with past, present or future acts of violence.

I would please like to hear the response of those most concerned with the perceived imperfections in the "explanations" given by IDRF. Would you be happy if IDRF ensured that its funding allocation (to Groups, not grass-roots) is:

Congress 20% (to fund anti-Sikh riots)
Shiv Sena 10% (for anti- South Indian riots)
Muslim Leage 15% (for anti-Hindu riots)
Hurriyat Traitoriyat 10% (for secessionist terror)
Marxist Communist 30% (for spreading Chinese Communism, Naxalite murders, People's War Group, and obstructing development in Kerala)
BJP 20% (as long as they guarantee that none of it goes to RSS/VHP )

I'm just trying to get a feel for what would constitute the perfect quota system to satisfy the need for perfection felt by all of us.

By the way, I voted for Congress (I) in 1984.. because at that time, that seemed like the best bet to hold my country together and give us a chance to build up its resources faster than the Biju Mathews and Angana Sens and Arundhati Roys and VHP AirHeads could tear it down.

Where's the logic in the attacks against IDRF??

Back to IDRF attack analyis

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