
                        POPeye on Zwitterion

> POPeye has made some EXCELLENT points about buying chemicals in the past.

uh-oh

> Here is what happens when ZWITTERION goes to buy chemicals:

so far

>I'm a slight build white male. My hair is short and neat. I am a PRESENTABLE
>LOOKING MOTHERFUCKER..

hmmmmmmm, sounds like the PERFECT cellmate

> I restrain myself in conversation,

No WAY !  The rest of your post TOTALLY contradicts this statement.

>
>DO NOT PRETEND TO BE IN BUSINESS IF YOU ARE A COLLEGE STUDENT!!!
>
you mean if you are PRETENDING TO BE A COLLEGE STUDENT!!!! he screamed
capitally.
I agree, do not pretend to be two things at once, it just confuses
everybody and makes you look stupid

>Purchase Order? Fuck that.

Euuuuuuuu... kinky!

> A purchase order will get you one thing - >LAUGHS!

Especially if you're trying to fuck it, but anyhooooo, it's just a list of
what you want on a bullshit letterhead, it is a courtesy to the seller,
they like it, makes their job easy, I like it because it virtually
ELIMINATES conversation.

>1) Do not even ASK about restricted compounds. This includes methylamine,
>toluene, acetic anhydride, ephedrine, phosphorous etc... NEVER MENTION THESE
>THINGS!

HUh?  How can you buy them if you don't mention them?

The only accurate source of information on what is  'restricted', and how,
is going to be the chem supply house itself... unless you're a legal
scholar, and even then...?

So
make your desired list of chemicals (leaving out the impossible dreams like
P2P, MDP2P, Lysergic Acid, etc.)
call the supplier (caller ID block code at least, pay phone better) and ask:
        1. do they do 'will calls'?  if not, you're wasting your time.
        2. read off your list, taking the time to find out what they have
'on hand'... things get more complicated if you have to order them, they're
gonna wanna trade phone numbers etc... just like when you order a pizza.
So you may have to get creative in this reguard... think about this ahead
of time and be smart.
        3. ask them if there are restrictions or DEA paperwork involved...
fuck it, at this point, they don't know you from william bennet.
        4. do NOT end the conversation with, 'okay, see you tomorrow around
9:30am'.... obviously

do a preliminary drive-by lookSee
if it feels right, just do it. (real scientific approach, huh?)

Don't be an idiot:
        the so-called 'laws' are arbitrary gibberish on purpose, so stick
to a common sense, 'anonymous at all costs' approach.
        there ain't no totally SAFE anything, you're ALWAYS playing the odds
        what type of chemicals you're buying (watched or not...whatever
that means) is definitely going to effect the degree of risk.. My
friend,... uhhhh, Zipper-on, may be a skilled amateur chemist or something,
he may be purchasing only precursors to precursors and chemicals not
directly associated with drugSynth, perhaps this is why his high-profile
chemistry major tapDance gets over, but most slosh and burn chemHacks are
buying stuff that even the dizziest chemStore clerk is hip to. The closer
you get to 'the real thing' (chemically) the greater the risk...this is
obvious.
        One more time:
:: In the interest of bandwidth preservation, I will not belabor common sense
:: variables such as flagrant display of auto liscence plates, paying with
:: personal checks,  stomping in on DocMartins clad in raunchy crankOil
stinking
:: leathers with your Jolly Roger headband and studded chain mail riding
gloves,
:: taking direct routes to/from suppliers and labs and/or customers, or
selling
:: 1/4 grams directly from a fully stocked lab at your family home, a virtually
:: endless list of possible no-brainer fumbles that will cost you everything

OK, back  to ZwitterDude:

> These two approaches are most believable, AND MOST COMPREHENSIVE in the
> range of chemicals you are likely to buy:
>
>   a) college chemistry student - <etc. etc.>

so you have to buy your own books AND your own chemicals, too.  How about
plating smalltimer, taxidermist, metal treating, speed cook, etc. if your
taking the trouble to forge a letterhead.. otherwise, hand them your list
and play the strong, quiet type... if you've called in advance with the
right inquiries, there's nothing to talk about.

> BUT THEY DO SEE THEIR SHARE OF YOUNG IDIOTS TRYING TO MAKE DRUGS!

they are evident by their nervous and chatty demeanor

> Remember, they want to BELIEVE in you. Help them.

NO.. they want your money, shut up and give it to them

>   b) Photography - this is the GREATEST FUCKING HOBBY for chem-wannabes.
                                <and so on>,
> pick up a book on DARKROOM CHEMISTRY so you can be
>well prepared to explain that MERCURIC CHLORIDE is used as an INTENSIFIER
>and POTASSIUM BROMIDE is used as a BUFFERING AGENT for hydroquinone
>developers.

why, they already KNOW that

But Zipper-on is certainly right that frequenting a photo supply is far
safer than a chem supply house, they do a huge amount of walk-in business,
lot's of retail customers, impossible to watch from the surveillance
standpoint, very difficult to detect anything from regular paper work if
the feds were to hostage the place and audit.

Not bad reasoning for the 'ionic state of an amino acid in water' (kudos
unDoc)

  But they may actually carry some controlled stuff, so I have heard...
don't sign any forms that require ID, and I would still use cash.

the book on Darkroom chemistry sounds like a good idea, too...perhaps
Zipper-on will see this and reccomend a good title.

>3) Pay with CASH or CREDIT CARD. Yes you dumb fucker: CREDIT CARD! That is a
>NORMAL PERSON'S way of paying for goods and services.


> I mean, how many "businesses" buy chemicals with a PURCHASE ORDER and CASH???

You can say what you want about Zipper-on, but you have to give him credit
for one thing, he's goddamn  FEARLESS.... This paying by credit card fetish
is some sort of desperate cry for help, and Zwit certainly likes to leave
an impression on everybody's paperwork with his GoldCard.

The chemical supply is the one place where 'the chemist' has to come up out
of the Underground... It's tricky...
 I will tell you, that the following statements are true, not speculation,
take my word for it.

1. SOME ChemSupply operations are REAL heavy players in drugAction but you
wouldn't know it, because you're not a Heavy.

2. Some are obvious middleWeight players...they have names like... 'The
Alchemist's Treasure Chest'. They pop up on occasion and are quick buck,
smart lawyer operations that only stay open for a few years of fat profits
from inflated prices... there is ALWAYS a debate going as to whether or not
they are cop fronts... who knows?

3. ANY chemSupply that has fucked up their paperwork or is under suspicion
may be forced to use DEA agents as part-time employees or be shut down.

4. Most chemSupply operations are 'legit' (whatever that means) but still
'cater' to drug manufacturers to some degree, whether or not they know it,
acknowledge it, or give a fuck.

5. The DEA periodically audits ALL chemSupply operations with well paid
analysts and all transactions are subject to scrutiny.

The first three are self-explanatory.

> 4. Most chemSupply operations are 'legit' (whatever that means) but still
> 'cater' to drug manufacturers to some degree, whether or not they know it,
> acknowledge it, or give a fuck.

Just call around and and you will find that damn near EVERYBODY carries the
precursors common to street drug manufacturing, on the premises, even when
they are not so common otherwise and shelf space is limited... this is
simple supply and demand market forces at work... they stock what moves,
and people do a LOT of drugs... in some cases they may NOT be aware of
their own complicity, I just don't know, really.

> 5. The DEA periodically audits ALL chemSupply operations with well paid
> analysts, all transactions are subject to scrutiny.

        This is where Zwittiot's logic is flawed as far as credit card buys.

        MOST chem dealers are not real players, they're just sort of 'in
the mix, they are niether clean nor dirty.  Putting on a show for them is
meaningless and transparent.  Leaving a credit card record of chemical
purchases for DEA auditors to run accross makes the whole song and dance
that much more counterClockwise.. I think Zipper-on must be throwing us
some bait when he suggests we buy with a credit card.

  We can only speculate as to how sophisticated DEA scanning, databases,
compiling, cross referencing, and standardizaton might be, but the current
witch hunt enviornment assures them of a big budget and lots of manPower.

  They are also smart, educated, good looking fellows, very suave and
worldly-wise. Most of them are computerLiterate these days, and are onLine
for sure, POPeye just wants everybody to know that these are nice guys
doing a tough job and you will NEVER hear POPeye (who is keeping his arms
clean, has a real job and a family, never touches glass or chemicals, and
is a real upstanding totally reformed, drug free model citizen) put them
down.  It's a tough job, but somebody etc. etc.


>...not seem AMENABLE to your needs, LEAVE. Be INDIGNANT if they suggest
>you are
>making DRUGS. Do NOT SLINK AWAY LIKE A COMMON CRIMINAL.

I agree
>
>Good luck, and stay low.

ditto, POPeye

POPeye learned or watched people learn the hard way.  However he is not
qualified for the position of Safety Officer for this group and if YOU want
to cover your ass, as much as possible, you need to do more research into
this stuff, don't just take MY word for ANYTHING,  and certainly not the
offhand advice of a greenhorn like Zipper-on.. I could be missing a lot of
angles, this neighborhood is a whole lot bigger than the few blocks that
POPeye's been around, and things have definitely changed since I've
actually had to  worry about it.

Here is one more dead end nightmare to avoid...

This is a hypothetical example of a very real trap that has snared a
shitload of lightWeights, other chemical combinations can apply.

In most states you can walk into certain specialized chem supply houses and
buy up to a certain amount of the following three chemicals IF you are
willing to show some proper ID, and have some phony company letterhead, or
maybe a business card or maybe even a ZipperHead chem-major songAnDance,
AND you fill out all the necessary DEA paperwork, lying in all the proper
spaces.

1 hydriodic acid
2 red phosphorous
3 l-ephedrine

You MAY have to buy these one at a time, I'm not sure, but in any case, it
is NOT illegal for the supplier to sell these to you, provided that you
have jumped through all the hoops as required. You can purchase these, and
walk out...

HOWEVER, it IS illegal for you to POSSESS these chemicals in this
combination unless you are a legitimate liscenced researcher or distributer
which you aren't or you wouldn't be reading POPeye trash.

As a matter of fact, it is VERY fucking illegal. '

IF you sign your real name on these documents... what you have just done,
is confessed to (in some states) intent to manufacture

When the warrant for your arrest has been processed, your bank account
audited and frozen, and any periphery storage or rented spaces you write
rent checks to, already searched.  They will come to arrest you... it will
be 5:30 AM and probably Friday (nobody knows why friday) they WILL have a
search warrant, but they don't need one, they have already snared you with
the document you signed, and, if necessary, the subpoenaed testimony of the
clerk who watched you sign it and handed you the goods, you are gone, you
are guilty, that's all they have to prove, and you did it FOR them.  ....


I assume that this is the scenario that took down some of  MethTime's
housemates, when he spoke of convicts doing time for manufacturing, who
couldn't have cooked up a pot of moonshine from a quart of Vodka.

So DON'T FUCKING SIGN ANY PAPERWORK and NEVER give them anything with your
real name on it.  And beware of Zwitterions bearing foolish pride.

and the spiders from Mars

just remember... manufacturing or any association with it, is one area
where, if the heat can make something stick,  a real small time hack can
get treated like public enemy #1, and it's difficult to determine where the
lines are drawn.


this space is getting HOT

later
POPeye

