From: jkenner@cello.gina.calstate.edu (Jason Kennerly)
Subject: Methamphetamine FAQ 1.0
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <425mh7$j5@cello.gina.calstate.edu>
organization: GINA and CORE+ Services of The California State University
newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry,alt.drugs

NOTE: There's not a single lab proceedure in this damn file. Just a whole 
lotta notes, enough to figure out a good lab proceedure. As I switched 
from Dexedrine to Ritalin because it was too sedating (!), you can 
understand why I have little interest in engineering a working 
methamphetamine synthesis with full details. This file's main purpose in 
life is hopefully to stem the flow of email to my account asking for meth 
recipes, and to provide a great mail-bomb reply for those who continue to 
ask me for such...

You want tips on making CAT, *and* you've tried and perhaps failed, then 
email me and I will cooperate with ya fully.

There's a lot of critique commentary and extension written by myself in 
this FAQ, and even a proposal or two which remains to my knowledge 
untried at all. This is pretty much a FAQ in the literal sense...


****

METHAMPHETAMINE FAQ v1.0:

1. via Chloromethamphetamine notes
   with Bromomethamphetamine extension.
2. via Iodomethamphetamine notes
3. P2P notes [none yet other than "reductively aminate"]
4. via D-Phenylalanine notes
   [or DL-Phenylalanine]
5. via Amphetamine
6. Seperation of isomers of amphetamine and related
7. "Bunk" synthesises, and why they don't work
8. General information

...........................(1) Via Chloromethamphetamine...................

Making it from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine is possible. The only 
difference between methamphetamine and (pseudo)ephedrine is that damn 
alpha-hydroxy group. Reacting your ephedrine with thionyl chloride 
replaes the OH with Cl to produce N-methyl-alpha-chloroamphetamine as an 
intermediate. Hydrogenating this product is easy: use lithium aluminum 
hydride, sodium borohydride, or even hydrogen gas with nickel or platinum 
metal as a catalyst. The product of this step is N-methylamphetamine and 
HCl. Evaporate off the water and you have methamphetamine hydrochloride.

Another method:
React the (pseud)Ephedrine with PHOSPHORUS PENTACHLORIDE (maybe even
the trichloride would work!). This is another chlorinating agent. The
byproduct is phosphoric acid instead of messy sulphur compounds. In other
words, LESS STINK!!!
Reduction is possible with standard LAH procedures, as per above.
/////////////////////A bromomethamphetamine side note, possibly appliable
                to the chloroamphetamine methods with altered yields///////
> Would you be so kind as to e-mail me a detailed description of the 
> brominated ephedrine method of synthesizing methamphetamine. Thanx!
Method, no. The idea I proposed was to prepare HBr acid [see elusis's 
file] in aqueous solution, add Ephedrine base (or HBr?) and zinc bromide 
[or a small amount of zinc to FORM zinc bromide] as catalyst, to form 
bromomethamphetamine. This reaction would take place faster than the 
coresponding reaction with HCl. 
note that HI + ZnI may very well proceed straight to methamphetamine 
given HI's aptitude for attacking iodated hydrocarbons.
The bromomethamphetamine would be disolved in anhydrous ethyl ether, then 
powdered magnesium would be added, hopefully forming the grignard. To 
this water is added slowly to form methamphetamine and various magnesium 
salts..
I've never seen it tried and the NH2+ may cause a problem with forming the 
grignard. It's just an idea.


............................(2) Via Iodomethamphetamine....................

(pseud)Ephedrine is reduced with red phosphorus using iodine as a catalyst.

OK, remember the reagent for halide sub. of an alcohol?
It was always PCl3, PBr3, or PI3 right?
Neat P(x)3 isn't usually used, right?

So, I imagine you would mix HI, red P, and the alcohol in a flask at first.
Then the P4 would change to PI3.  (no, not by magic.  do you remember this 
shit yet?) The PI3 would reduce the alcohol to a halide by some mech. I 
forgot. The PI3 again magically changes to H3PO3 and HI when heated.
The HI reduces the alcohol-that-is-now-a-halide to a hydrocarbon.

SO... The reaction basically goes like this:

Phosphorus + Iodine           ---> PI3
(pseud)Ephedrine + PI3        ---> Phosphoric acid + b-Iodo,n-methamphetamine
PI3 + water                   ---> HI + H3PO3
b-Iodo,n-methamphetamine + HI ---> Methamphetamine + I2 (iodine)
                                   (iodine is reused)

Another version of this synthesis involves reacting iodine with plain 
old red phosphorus, adding the ephedrine, then continuing to add red P
to keep the reduction going. This is the 'classic biker meth' recipe, 
and without a good acid/base extraction thru a nonpolar solvent, a good 
way to end up a hyperthyroid mess with the nickname 'goiter joe']. Since,
nou doubt, the classic "biker methheads" eyeballed amounts for their
reagents [just kidding guys], and evaluated production not with scales and
chromatographs but with HONEST TO GOD FIELD TESTING [heh heh] of the
compound, there were no amounts listed. Figure it out yerself, as directed
to in the below listing:
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This whole thread has been extremely educational to an old P2P chemHacker
like POPEYE, but I think y'all need to know that the HI reduction of
ephedrine doesn't involve a chlorephedrine intermediate or hydrogenation w/
Pd/C, Raney Nickel,and especially not LAH.
Now I could be fullaShit, BUT, it seems that at LEAST two syntheses are
being confused here.
The original question was:
> Will hydroiodic acid really reduce ephedrine to methamphetamine via 
> beta-iodo-methamphetamine?
POPEYE doesn't know shit about anything following the 'via' in that
sentence, but he does know that L-ephedrine is refluxed with hydriodic acid
in the presence of a RED PHOSPHOROUS catalyst for 32 hours to yield crank
oil, which is seperated from the reaction goop with 10% LYE and a sep
funnel, then  acidified, dehydrated, and cooled in an ether-acetone
solution to yield Crystal.. much simpler than Yall are makin' it out to be.
This is the famous one-step biker crank and it's killer when done as an art
form...considerably more potent than a P2P route and absoLUTEly the reason
that L-ephedrine has become scarce in some sectors of the occupied
territories formerly known as the USA.
Sorry I couldn't supply references or proportions for this synth....It
should be easy to Mole out from what I've said, and I absolutely 100% can
guarantee that this is not bullshit.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\


Always watch out for beta-halogenated byproduct - these unreacted components
are supposedly quite bad for you. A LAH wash of the finished compound should
remove them nicely. Barring that, a quick reflux in 1M NaOH(aq) will probably
convert any beta-halogenated product back into ephedrine - strive to use
enough phosphorus to complete the original reaction.

YET ANOTHER METHOD:
Alcohols can be converted to their halides simply by mixing with the acid.
Tert-butanol reacts SO FAST that merely mixing it with HCl results in tert-
butyl-chloride in a few minutes! In general, the rules for this are that
tertiary alcohols react fastest, and primary alcohols slowest. N-butanol + 
HCl reacts so slowly that Zinc Chloride must be used as a catalyst. Another
thing to remember is that HI reacts fastest, HCl slowest.

With this in mind, recall that Hx halogen acids can be synthesized from
their salts and a stronger acid. Sulphuric acid is suitable for HCl and
sometimes HBr, but will oxidize HI back to I2. Phosphoric acid however will
not, and can be used with solid KI or NaI to make HI gas.

The ideal reaction to use for this method would probably involve zinc iodide
and hydroiodic acid. Zinc iodide can be prepared by simply mixing zinc and
iodine in a suitable setting and heating (dangerous enough - exothermic rxn).
Make enough zinc iodide and you can use it...
Zinc Iodide + Phosphoric acid ---> Zinc Phosphate + HI (gas)

               ZnI
HI + Ephedrine ---> b-iodomethamphetamine + H2O

HI + b-iodomethamphetamine ---> methamphetamine

A suggested synthesis would involve leaving the HI + Ephedrine over ZnI
for for a LONG TIME [two days?], perhaps even with heating? As with 
all proposed synthesises, try it first, find out, and use your intuition
to think of an improvement, try that, see if it works better or worse, etc.


...................................(3) P2P Notes...........................


.............................(4) Via D,L-Phenylalanine.....................

A surprisingly simple synthesis is possible from the amino acid
phenylalanine, which is available at health food stores for about $14 for
100 tablets. Phenylalanine is 2-amino-3-phenylpropanoic acid, which is
more or less amphetamine with a COOH where the CH3 should be at the end of
the chain. Thionyl chloride will replace the OH with a Cl, which falls off
and is replaced by H when you give it lithium aluminum hydride, sodium
borohydride, or hydrogen gas and nickel/platinum. If you use hydrogen and
metal for that step, you'll have to reduce the carbonyl group with one of
the hydrides, so best save time + effort and use them and do both
reductions at once. When that carbonyl is reduced, you now have
amphetamine. Go back up to that first one I mentioned for upgrading
amphetamine into methamphetamine. (and end up with a racemic mixture - that
is to say dl-amphetamine or dl-methamphetamine - the latter being similar 
to 50% d-meth from ephedrine and 50% l-meth from a vicks inhaler!]
[BY THE WAY: If you use the all-to-common L-Phenylalanine, you'll get 
l-amphetamine! Use "DL-Phenylalanine (DLPA)" if you want to use this 
prcedure]

Note that both the DLPA and the P2P procedures will give you a mixture 
of d- and l- isomers. The d- is cool, the l- is shit. If you have the 
time, energy, and equipment, you can separate the two. 

|and reprocess the l- into d- by oxidizing it and re-aminating it as 
|described in the "critique" of the Phrack synthesis.
Why bother? what a major pain in the ass, especially considering the 
ease of producing the d-isomer directly, the cheapness of DLPA versus
recycling L-meth into more racemic product, etc. Simply isolate 
the D-isomer and THROW the L-isomer AWAY!!!


................................(5) Via Amphetamine........................

One of the easiest ways to make methamphetamine is from amphetamine. Of 
course, this assumes you have amphetamine in the first place, but let's 
just pretend you have some and you want to spice it up a bit.
The difference between amphetamine and methamphetamine is the addition of 
a single methyl group (CH3) to the amino group sticking off the middle 
carbon atom in the chain. Fortunately, substituting amines is really 
simple. Vaporize your amine (your amphetamine) with a bunch of vaporized 
chloromethane (CH3Cl, a solvent) and some gaseous pyridine...
voila, the amino group takes the methyl from the chloromethane and lets a 
hydrogen go. The hydrogen joins the liberated chlorine, and the resulting 
HCl is soaked up by the pyridine. The pyridine is optional. Adding it 
drives the reaction a bit by pulling the excess HCl out of the equation, 
but it's not neessary.
...........................(6) Separation of isomers.......................



.............................(7) "BUNK" Synthesises........................

One, from Phrack magazine, is the "tried and true method" for prepping
meth from Vick's nasal inhalers. Vick's nasal inhalers contain
"l-desoxyephedrine," another name for "l-methamphetamine." The l- isomer
of methamphetamine is the relatively inactive one, usable as a (mild)
nasal decongestant. The d- isomer is the one that everyone wants and that 
Uncle Sam has declared is just too cool for anyone except doctors.

The procedure described would extract the l-meth froom the inhalers and 
collect it and that's  it.  I'm sorry, but the Isomer Fairy can't wave 
her magick wand and reverse the chirality of the molecule. The only way 
to change between the two isomers is to oxidize the l-meth into 
phenylacetone, condense it with methylamine, then reduce it. Sorry, but 
soaking inhalers in HCl then separating the "juice" with Et2OH just won't 
do it. You'll get l-meth and that's that.

On the other hand, when your friends rat you out cause you basically
ripped them off, don't expect the cops to check the isomerization. They'll
say "Yup, its methamphetamine, book 'em" and that will be all.


A SYNTHESIS THAT MIGHT WORK, MIGHT NOT:
A more credible souding one mentions that "methamphetamine is prepared by 
the calalytic reduction of pseudoephedrine in acetic acid" blahblahblah and 
then goes on to describe, not catalytic reduction via acetic acid, but 
reduction with sodium borohydride. I'm sorry to say that no method 
attempting to directly reduce (pseudo)ephedrine's hydroxyl group is going 
to work. You can't expose it to a strong acid, or a weak acid, or sodium 
borohydride, or even lithium aluminum hydride and expect it to reduce at 
all. As with the Vick's Inhalers "recipe," you get a lot of SOMETHING, 
but it ain't d-meth. All you'll be left with is your (pseudo)ephedrine 
and a bunch of acid, lithium, and/or sodium and lotsa hydrogen gas. This 
is because the hydroxyl group (the OH in ephedrine) is on a very acidic 
carbon (the first carbon away from the ring) and a hydroxyl group is very 
basic. If the hydroxyl were on the second carbon from the ring (the 
carbon with the amine group, the NH2 or NHCH3), there might be some 
chance, but it's not and there's not. You're not getting a basic group 
off an acidic carbon without a fight, and acids, borohydride, and 
LiAlhydride aren't gonna fight that hard.

[this may not be true. If the acetic acid forms the ESTER at the hydroxy,
it would aid in reduction by serving as a catalyst. This is doubtful,
especially considering that any process promoting the loss of water would
also create the acetic amide! Perhaps a final reflux with sodium hydroxide
would resolve this problem, but its still a poor method as the author above
stated]

.................................(5) General Info..........................

From Merck Index, 11th edition:
Long Name: N,a-Dimethylbenzeneethanamine
Molecular Weight: 149.24

for the HCl form:
Melts at 170-175c
Tastes bitter [nooo... really???]
Soluable in water, alcohol, and chloroform, but practically insoluable in
 ethyl ether.
A 1% aqeuous solution is neutral or slightly acidic to litmus.

From PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS and RELATED COMPOUNDS, 2nd edition:
LD50 data listed from multiple sources:
70mg/kg,i.p. mice
for D isomer:
15mg/kg,i.p. mice       9.4mg/kg/i.v./mice
[bunch of data for L-isomer, which aint that potent, not included. It's my
 guess the reason for all the data on the L-isomer is to indicate safety
 probably trials done before marketing the Vicks Inhalers...]
Human Dosage (for non-tolerant individuals):
For halucinations [unpleasant paranoid ones I imagine?]: 40-60mg i.v.
For stimulation: 2.5-5mg bid or tid, 10-15mg i.v. bid, 15-30mg i.m. b.i.d.    
                 2.5-10mg daily
                 [these somewhat conflicting data are interesting...]
For anoretic use: 10-15mg


DIAGRAMS:
Amphetamine             Methamphetamine          (pseud)Ephedrine
  
  _____                    _____                    _____   OH
 /  _  \                  /  _  \                  /  _  \  |
<  (_)  >-CH2-CH--CH3    <  (_)  >-CH2-CH--CH3    <  (_)  >-CH--CH--CH3
 \_____/      |           \_____/      |           \_____/      |
              NH2                      NH--CH3                  NH--CH3


b-halogen-Methamphetamines                        Phenylalanine

  _____   x                                         _____           OH
 /  _  \  |                                        /  _  \          |
<  (_)  >-CH--CH--CH3                             <  (_)  >-CH2-CH--C=O
 \_____/      |                                    \_____/      |
              NH--CH3                                           NH--CH3

****


--
     ____   ______  ________ _____
    /    \ |      \|   /\   |     \   jkenner@cello.gina.calstate.edu
   /      \|   _   \   \/   |  _   \  
  /___/\   \___|>   >       |__|>   > BORN TO BE WIRED... 
 /         |       /   /\  |       /  All the sugar and twice the 
 \_________|______/|___\/__|______/   caffeine of regular netusers!
 finger me and make a pgp key come.
From: yshan@bnr.ca (Yogi Shan)
Subject: Jason & the Golden Fleeced (Was:Re: req: home-bake info
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <4d4l04$9va@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca>
distribution: world
references: <AD1ACD7A9668133523@158.152.22.244> <4d3pql$35o@cello.gina.calstate.edu>
organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard,alt.drugs.chemistry,alt.drugs,rec.drugs.misc,rec.drugs.psychedelic
originator: yshan@bcarh697


Awright, time to bring out the clowns and
dancing bears.  Let's get this circus on
the road.  Yowza! Yowza!

Jason Kennerly is a systematic purveyor
of egregious _garbage_.  He is not the
_only_ one of this kind in the drug groups,
he is merely the _worst_.

Not only does he not realize it, he doesn't
care. 

Perhaps for the first time in his young
life, people are paying attention to him.
Lots of them. He gets e-mail from all over 
the continent, if not the world.  People 
compliment him. Admire him.  Respect him.

Not bad for a junior college schmoe, even
though it all a giant charade made possible
by the gullibility of  semi-illiterate
drug users looking for the Holy Grail:
an "Endless Supply of Cheap Home-Made Drugs".

Yesiree!

From hardware store ingredients, if possible.
No, no.  Make it the grocery store -- we don't
want to have to walk too far.  


       The Genesis of The Problem
       **************************

It's been a process of negative evolution.  

Over the last half decade at least, a variety
of skilled chemists, pharmacologists, and other 
scientists have come and gone in the drug 
newsgroups as they became bored, the signal-to-
noise ratio has decreased, they began to fear 
the repercussions of posting, or they were worn
done by the unending cacophony of shouting nitwits 
and their feeble attempts at showing the
world how clever they are.

As the Net became popularized, the average
education and experience of the Internet
user has declined steadily, and the standard
of who can pass as an expert has declined
with it.

I could literally spend a consistent one
to two hours a day correcting the chemistry
errors alone that I see here.
  

But that would be an absurd waste of time, 
made more so by the ingratitude of many a 
worthless internet druggie, his memory, morality,
intellect, and personality utterly obliterated
by the chemicals he claims liberate and enlighten 
him.

In previous posts, I have shown you how
Jason accomplishes this chameleon-like act,
and hypothesized a reasonable (though
eminently debatable) medical explanation 
for its basis.

Over the next few days (my email is backed
up, so if you've sent me email recently,
be patient) let us explore Jason's fundamental
technical inadequacy, and why it matters.

I've chosen three characteristic examples
(of many I've seen) of how his mind operates.
Or more appropriately, how it _fails_ to 
operate at even minimum levels of intellect.

This thread started on the basis of his
many factual errors.  Some guy refers
to a very specific 1991 _J.For.Sci._ paper
giving some details that make it unlikely
he's making it up.  Jason questions his
facts, because if Jason hasn't seen something,
*it* *must* *not* *exist*.

Much more important than his factual errors,
however, are his _conceptual_ errors.  

Quite simply, Young Master Kennerly _does_ 
_not_ _understand_.


        Jason & the Grignard
        ********************

Jason wrote a stunningly worthless piece of
rambling nonsense, entitled the "Methamphetamine 
FAQ".

His "bromoamphetamine side-note" hypothesizes
the preparation of methamphetamine from
bromoamphetamine using the well-known Grignard 
reaction.

Fine.  

He labels it as an "idea", that he "proposed" 
that will "hopefully" form the Grignard.

Now first of all he tells you to use Magnesium
powder.  Anyone with the slightest familiarity
with the Grignard knows that one uses Magnesium
turnings.  Even a non-chemist can look this
up.  See if it says magnesium"turnings" or "powder".

I can't remember if the powder will either not 
work or just blow you up.  No mind.  That's
less important than the next point:

He finishes off this masterful hypothesis with
the cover-my-bases statement:

"I've never seen it tried and the NH2+ may cause
a problem with forming the Grignard."

Thank you, Master Kennerly.  Clap, clap, clap.

Now Young Master Kennerly seems to be dimly aware 
that various chemical groups (like "NH2+") may
actually have the audacity to cause difficulty.  

This is in fact the case.  The Grignard only
works with alkyl compounds.

More importantly, it took me a grand total
of 180 seconds to look up "Grignard" in
a standard second year organic text (Morrison
& Boyd, 3rd ed.) and find a statement that
the "NH2+" (and many other groups) in fact
completely trash this reaction.

It won't work.  

More importantly, it took me _180_ seconds to 
verify that it wouldn't work using a basic, 
simple-to-read text.

I looked in the index for "grignard", went to
that page, and found a paragraph listing the
important concept that most functional groups,
including, "NH2+" cause the reaction to crap
out.

In three -- count 'em -- minutes.  *You*
can do this exercise yourself at home,
or at the nearest public library.

Instead of hypothesizing, proposing, and 
equivocating, why wasn't Young Master Kennerly 
reading and _understanding_ about Grignard 
Reactions?

By the way, his description of the Phenylalanine
synthesis is complete nonsense as well, as
was the recent discussion here in alt.drug.chem-
istry.  The prep'n of meth from D-PA requires
a 3-step synthesis using LAH & tosyl chloride.
There are a couple of variants (Gal, Repke, etc.)
and they're all much more complicated that the
ludicrous simplification that Young Master
Kennerly has hypothesized.

I guess Kennerly is smarter than all those guys
with their fancy PhDs and organic laboratories.
Yessiree!  Real whiz kid, he is.

Anyone starting to realize that Jason Kennerly
doesn't really have the slightest clue what
he is doing, and what he is talking about? 

That you too could "propose" ten pages of 
Methamphetamine Syntheses that "might" work 
yourself?


Tomorrow:  Example 2:  Evaporating Solvents
           -- The Kennerly Way!



Yogi

**********************************************

  The difference between a Fool and a Damn
  Fool, is that a Fool knows what he is.

**********************************************
From: yshan@bnr.ca (Yogi Shan)
Subject: Jason & the Golden Fleeced II (Was:Re: req: home-bake info
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <4d70ne$42c@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca>
distribution: world
references: <AD1ACD7A9668133523@158.152.22.244> <4d3pql$35o@cello.gina.calstate.edu> <4d4l04$9va@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca>
organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard,alt.drugs.chemistry,alt.drugs,rec.drugs.misc,rec.drugs.psychedelic
originator: yshan@bcarh697



   "'No, I wouldn't say he was exactly...
     but there was something queer...
     there was something uncanny about him.
     I'll tell you my opinion...'"

                           -- "Dubliners"
                               James Joyce


The wind through dried grass.  Rats feet
o'er broken glass.  A rollickin' carnival
caricature.

A f*in'-A, burning Saigon bordello, shrieking
side-show of lies.

Yesterday, we explored the Young Master
Kennerly's understanding of basic (very
basic) first level organic chemistry,
by reviewing his "Methamphetamine FAQ".

Keep in mind that this was just a sample
analysis.  I picked two of his syntheses
more or less at random, realized that
they were absolutely preposterous, and
then realized that almost all the rest
was unmitigated garbage.

There are certainly some correct statements
and correct quotes in there.  It's that
intimate melange of occasional fact with 
utter nonsense, leavened with Kennerly's
authoritative (but phony) Bullsh*tting
that cons most people so well.

A Pied Piper, I said, and I'll say it
again.  Singing his tune to lead away
to their doom the unwary.  

And this is my swan song for him.

Give me six months, and I could teach
a beagle more about chemistry than Jason
Kennerly knows.

And I could train a beagle _not_ to sh*t
all over the newsgroup.

[Bonus question:  What does a moron call a
 smart person whose arguments have no flaws?

 Answer:  Arrogant.                     ]



   Evaporating Solvents  -- The Kennerly Way!
   ******************************************

Now let's move on to Jason's "Mecathinone FAQ".

Now Jason didn't actually write this document.
He just "maintains it", as he puts it.  

Which _should_ mean he vouches for the accuracy 
and completeness of the document, but _in fact_ 
means that he's only taking _credit_ for it.  

Whatta shameless bandit, huh? 

Go down to the "Mecathinone FAQ" section entitled:
"Makign [sic] Glittering White Crystals".  

"Glittering", eh?  Gee, that sounds nice.  Like
the baubles they sold the Indians to buy 
New York?

In this section, Young Master Kennerly describes
how to make said crystals from the liquid
solution of mecathinone.

To accomplish this trivially simple procedure
Young Master Kennerly tells you to add some
methanol or ethanol (i.e., an alcohol) to
the evaporating solution (which is a mixture of
water and some rubbing alcohol).

This, he assures us, will speed the evaporation
process.  And that's "a definite plus", he 
intones.  

F+ maybe?

Think of it qualitatively.  It takes X amount
of heat to boil or evaporate water/rubbing alcohol.

It takes Y amount of heat to boil or evaporate
methanol or ethanol.

Mix the two together, kiddies, and how much heat
do you need to evaporate them?

Did anyone say, "X + Y"?

So why would adding the ethanol or methanol speed
the process?   Maybe he thinks that because
methanol/ethanol evaporate quickly, adding it
to water makes _it_ evaporate quicker.  

The Kennerly Transitive Solvent Evaporation Theory?

The mind boggles. 

But wait -- you're probably asking yourself
yourself -- what about _azeotropes_?

Ohoh.  There's one of those $50 words that phony
wannabes love to toss around, few can _define_,
fewer _understand_, and even fewer can apply.

Azeotropes _do_ effect the equation slightly
(either raising _or_ lowering 'X+Y'), but for
the purposes of our discussion, it's not
enough to change things significantly.

Plug some actual numbers in if you still don't
believe me.

The bottom line is that adding a solvent
that evaporates easily does _not_ making water
evaporate _more_ quickly, but _less_ quickly.

It's called thermodynamics, and even a child
should understand the basic argument.  Look
up Raoult's Law for further details on issues
of vapour pressure and such.

The punch-line:  methanol and water don't
_even_ form an azeotrope.  Look it up under
"azeotropes, binary" in the "CRC Handbook"
in any decent public library.  

You think Jason's ever bothered to visit one? 


Tomorrow:  

 Jason Kennerly:  Fraud or Fool? -- You Decide!



Yogi

*************************************************

    "I declare my independence from the fool 
     and from the knave,
     I declare my independence from the coward
     and the slave,
     I declare that I will fight for Right
     and fear no jail nor grave,
     That's why we keep marchin' on."

                         "Move on Over"
                          Len Chandler

*************************************************    

[ NOTE FROM THE EDITOR:  I don't want to end this here with
  Jason being "undefended." *however*, subsequent to this thread
  there wasn't much chemistry, just flames -- you can check out
  the thread for yourself on altavista.com.  There hasn't been
  a revised version of the FAQ, so I'm going to have to let Yogi's
  comments stand alone. ]
 
