Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:34:59 -1000
From: Dick Eney
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, BPack55294 wrote:
> Hi, Donna!
> Richard Rutt concurs with you in his book on the history of handknitting.
> Archaeological evidence supports the hypothesis that knitting "in the round"
> using four or five needles grossly pre-dates back and forth knitting. Also,
> using the purl stitch for decoration has generally considered a 12th C.
> development (though I recently heard of a 7th C site which provides evidence
of this, but since I haven't seen the article or know the periodical in which
> this information was printed, I can't say for sure).
If you ever find out those sources, please do tell us!! Using purl stitch for decoration,
according to Rutt, was not found earlier than in 16th century artifacts - anything
earlier has to go back to the fragments (now considered to be nalbinding) found in a Roman-era 256 AD site at Dura Europos. I realize Rutt was published some time
ago and there has been a lot of archaeology done since then, so I'm not saying it
couldn't be - in fact, I'm avid to hear more. It always seemed odd to me that purl-style
decoration was used in 256 AD and then "totally forgotten" for 1400 years, to be suddenly
"reinvented" in extremely fancy form in the 16th century.
> It is my understanding that textile historians
> believe back and forth knitting did not really "come into its own"
> until the 19th C. When you realize that a large preponderance of (but
> certainly not the ONLY) knitted items prior to the 19th C were socks
> and stockings, this does make sense.
Er... Irena Turnau's History of Knitting Before Mass Production_ (which I only got
to read in 1997) gives more information on flat knitted items before the 19th century.
She states that some rather early finds in northern Europe (i.e. pre-16th century,
Latvia if I recall correctly) were definitely flat-knitted on heavy wooden needles.
Also, the early machine knitting (late 16th century and on) was entirely flat-knitted,
and _all_ machine knitted socks until the late 19th or early 20th century were knitted flat and then sewn up by hand, because functional round-knitting machinery hadn't
been invented.
Obviously not all knitting was done by machine, and knitting socks for export was
a major source of income for poor folk in many locations. Perhaps your source was
referring more to the tradition of Scandinavian knitting, or to home-knitting rather
than the commercial knitting workshops of the knitting guilds.
The 16th-century knitted jacket (Italian or Spanish) and vest (ditto) owned by the
NY Met. Museum of Art had the fronts and back knitted flat and sewn together, though
I can't swear to the jacket sleeves. They were exhibited briefly in 1997 at the
Washington Textile Museum, where I had a chance to look at them close enough to really
see details of the knit-purl patterning as well as color patterning. Some differences
in pattern between the front and back indicated to me that they may have been made
by different people in the same workshop, and sewn together as 'good enough for commercial
sale'.
Flat knitted knit-purl patterning is also observable in Charles II's blue silk tunic
he wore to his execution, which is shown in Mary Thomas's Knitting Book.
=Tamar
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:54:16 -1000
From: Dick Eney
Subject: Re: HNW - On the Origins of Knitting
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Bonnie Jean Tallman wrote:
> Guess it is time to delurk for a moment. I enjoy this list just for
> its historical accruracy (and being around SCA some for my sister is
> active in it) so don't have much to contribute....but why does
> everyone think knitting is easier than purling? I have done both
> since the age of 6 and see no difference in difficulty. I am
> assuming from this disscusion that knitting did not include the purl
> stitch early on?
>
> > - the majority of the population find it easier to knit than to purl
> > (or is that just because we were taught the knit stitch first?)
Some people (like me) see little difference. It may depend on how you carry the thread;
in Continental-style knitting (though it varies more than you might think in different
European countries), purling is pretty much as easy as knitting, but with the English system (thread carried on the right forefinger), it's clumsier to move around
the needle tips to purl. (Professional production knitters all over Europe and
England used knitting sticks to hold the 'active' needle, which freed the right hand
to manipulate the yarn and needle tips for increased speed.)
However, because the earliest _confirmed datable_ knitting was round knitting, and
early examples of provable flat knitting are rare and later than the earliest confirmed
round knitting (unless that rumor of a 7th century source is confirmed), the standard assumption by the scholars is that plain knitting was first and purling was "invented"
hundreds of years later. The existence of early sock heels in stockinette is explained
by "they could have turned it inside out and knitted the other way" every other row on the shaping rows. (Sure they could have; and they could also have said, this
is dumb, let's pull the yarn through from the other direction. Why do scholars assume
that all human beings are terminally stupid until proven otherwise?)
In any case, until we have confirmed evidence of purl stitches being used (e.g., decoratively
or for ribbing) earlier than the 16th century, the
conservatives will still refuse to believe it.
=Tamar
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Subject: Re: HNW - On the Origins of Knitting
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 05:40:29 -1000
From: "Elizabeth Anderson"
If I were researching knitting, pre-1600, other than looking at various "madonnas
knitting" what are the best sources of info? I've just started to think seriously
about some knit garb for the SCA. I know about Naalbinding, and have purchased the
three workbooks the are available in English - although an initial try at using one of them
was less than successful.
Irene Davis
aka: Eirny Thorvaldsdottir
I too am very interested in knitting within the time period of the SCA; and I have
been attenmpting to do research and find documentation for a few years now. Tamar
Lindsay is an very knowledgable lady - as you will have seen - has helped me immeasurably.
The two books I would recommend - there is a paucity of information on this subject,
unfortunately - are Richard Rutt's The history of hand knitting (published in NA
by Interweave Press, now, alas, OOP) and Irene Turnau's History of knitting before
mass production. This latter book is as close to totally unavailable as a source can be -
Tamar very kindly gave
me access to a copy.
If you are wishing to pursue an interest in period knitting, a lady in An Tir has
found a Kingdom-wide Knitters' Guild, and publishes a newsletter four times a year.
Her mundane name is Melinda Shoop, and I will have to confirm her address from my
file. Her email is: [email protected]. She is also a regular on our email list for the An
Tir Spinners' Guild (which covers topics not covered by this list - spinning, weaving,
knitting, dyeing). To subscribe to that list, write to [email protected], with the usual subscribe in the subject and text of the message.
I believe the reason that knitting from period is so little explored is that it was
considered such a 'homely craft' by earlier researchers. There are a number of articles
in the records misidentified as either knitting or nalbinding when it really is not
possible to confuse the two techniques, once you have actually looked at the structure.
It says much for the sense of the academic community that interest in the homely
crafts is increasing.
Nan Compton (mka Bess Anderson) [email protected]
Barony of Montengarde
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:36:28 -1000
From: Dick Eney
Subject: Re: HNW - LONG! Books about Knitting
The knitting madonnas are some of our best primary sources for SCA garb evidence.
In one, she is knitting what seems to be a sleeve for a brocade
dress very like the one she is wearing. In another, she is knitting a shirt that
would fit a small adult, and Turnau documents knitted shirts pre-1600 as a standard
item of production.
The very best sources are not readily available. If you can use Interlibrary Loan,
try to get an English-language copy of Irena Turnau's _History of Knitting Before
Mass Production_. (And photocopy it all - you'll want to make reference marks on
pages.) ISBN 83-900213-2-3 copyright 1988.
_Folk Socks_ by Nancy Bush is about various traditional sock patterns, but has a photograph
of some of the fragments from Dura Europos (originally thought to be knitting, now
disputed as possibly nalbinding) that have knit-purl patterning. She cites quite a lot of Turnau; this is the closest to finding Turnau easily available, without
actually finding the translation. ISBN 0-934026-97-1 $16.95
You'll also want to try for a copy of Richard Rutt's _History of Hand Knitting_, of
about the same time. It has apparently just gone out of print, but you might get
lucky in a store that still has a copy. Rutt is very scholarly and quite good, but
he is extremely conservative and tends to ignore evidence that contradicts his theories.
_Mary Thomas's Knitting Book_ (1938) is available from Dover Books, and has very good
knitting history in it. She includes photos of some extant late Renaissance knitted
garments, including stockings, trousers, and a tunic.
_Patterns for Guernseys, Jerseys & Arans_ by Gladys Thompson is also available from
Dover Books. ISBN 0-486-22703-0 If you can find the original edition of 1955, there's
supposed to be a little more knitting history in it. Although there's no hard evidence that guernseys themselves go back that far, the word "guernsey" was used to refer
to the yarn used for some of Queen Eliz.I's stockings (in _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe
Unlock'd_) and the typical style of knit-purl patterning was used in King Charles
I's blue silk tunic (worn at his execution, and shown in Mary Thomas's book).
_Cornish Guernseys & Knit-frocks_ by Mary Wright, if you happen to come across it
(UK import), is a good tight scholarly study of guernsey knitting in 19th and 20th
century Cornwall. 0-906720-05-2 pb. It shows the persistence of identical patterns
over time and distance, with a virtually identical sweater being worn in Yorkshire in 1850
and in Cornwall in 1950. It gives you a real feel for the hardworking professional
knitter's life and motivation, which I suspect can be extrapolated back to the medieval knitter's life.
_Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd_ by Janet Arnold. Get this from interlibrary
loan - I bought it but I'm extravagant ($125.00). Arnold goes through every reference
in the extensive records of royal clothing from before, during, and after Elizabeth
I's reign, correlates them, reproduces the surviving paintings showing her clothing,
and relates it all to other extant primary sources. QE had knitted (or netted? *&%
Tudor spelling) garments, some of which were definitely knitted, others were definitely
netted... sleeves, a forepart of a dress, stockings... a knitted silk jacket is shown
(Turnau says at least 16 of them survive in European museums and I think she missed
the one in the NY Met).
_Aran Knitting_ by Alice Starmore is a pattern book of her designs, but the reason
for reading it is that she researched the actual history of Aran knitting rather
than the legend, and it appears to have been developed entirely in the 20th century.
The Aran Islanders bought the commercially produced Scottish guernseys (fisherman sweaters
were produced since at least 19th century and possibly much earlier, in Guernsey,
Jersey, Cornwall, and many other locations in England and Scotland) - and a local
woman appears to have built on the technique, designed very fancy sweaters, changed the method
of knitting to flat knitting because of the complex stitches, and after trying colors,
settled on thick white wool to show off the sculptural designs best. Then Hans Kiewe promoted them in his London knitting store, and the fashion took off. Aran sweaters
were not mentioned in the very extensive sociological studies that were done for
decades just before their invention.
By the way, don't bother with Hans Kiewe's pamphlet, _Sacred History of Knitting_.
It's all too typical of 1930s amateur research - all theory and romance, with virtually
nothing standing up to the test of time and scholarship. (Except one photo that makes me want to go to Cyprus to look at that statue - I think he may have found one real
fact and built a castle in the air on it, but _if_ that bit is true, it's fascinating
- a Roman-era statue that seems to be wearing knitted clothing. His other photos
don't prove anything to me.) Quite a lot of Rutt's book is dedicated to disproving Kiewe's
pamphlet.
_Twined Knitting_ (not 'twisted' as I called it in another post) by Birgitta Dandanell
and Ulla Danielsson. ISBN 1-883010-02-0 $16.95, $15.25 at Borders when I bought
it. Is good for Swedish and Scandinavian knitting in general, besides the specific
technique of twining, which was probably much more widespread in use (my assumption).
_Fancy Feet_ by Anna Zilboorg is about traditional knitting patterns of Turkey. It's
interesting but for purely historical research you might prefer to find it in a library
to copy the relevant bits. ISBN 0-937274-75-5 $18.95 hcvr, $17.04 at Borders.
_Knitting Around The World_, a collection of articles from Threads Magazine, includes
an enthusiastic article on Faeroe Islands shawl knitting, which says that knitting
came to the Faeroes from Norway in the 9th century with the Vikings! Where she got
that, who knows - the Vikings were doing nalbinding, and an article on Faeroe Island
shawls in _Piecework_ magazine Jan/Feb 1998 says the first written record of knitting
in the Faeroes is from 1584, referring to the century-old unchanged price for stockings, which apparently documents knitted stockings in the Faeroes back to 1484 - but I
still query whether they are assuming that stockings were knitted; stockings sewn
of felted cloth were used right alongside knitted stockings until the 19th century
in some places. (Modern Faeroe Island knitting tends to be very coarse, due to the modern
demand for speed of production over fineness of quality.) KAtW also includes articles
on twined knitting, Shetland lace shawls, and differing national ways of knitting.
=Tamar
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From: "Linn Skinner"
Subject: Re: HNW - On the Origins of Knitting
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:50:44 -1000
Another interesting book is "The Old Hand-Knitters of the Dales" ISBN 1
85568 021 1
The handknitted 17th Cent. jackets at the V&A are quite lovely and I believe
illustrated in some of their publications.
Linn Skinner
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:29:33 -1000
From: Dick Eney
Subject: Re: HNW - Renaissance Spool Knitting
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, BPack55294 wrote:
>Regarding the "knitting in the round" for stockings, I have this funny
>contraption which my dad made many years ago and used himself! It's the
>same principle as the spool knitting, only bigger. It's a simple chunk
>off the end of a 2X4, with a long, narrow hole in the center (it looks
>like a big button hole on a piece of wood). All around the hole are
>finishing nails, evenly spaced. He believes the technique is
>Scandinavian in origin, but he's not real into documentation, and was
>just looking for something to while away the winter hours in Cleveland!
>[...] you thread this thing just as if you were preparing to do spool
>knitting. What you get is this nice long oblong tube! Dad did scarves
>on his, but why couldn't the same idea be used (and have been used) for
>socks and stockings? True, you would get a tube sock (no shaping, no
>heel), but it would work!
I think your Dad may have been to a Scandinavian museum, maybe in a past life. :-)
What you have described is called a knitting frame (though the knitting machines
were called knitting frames also, and in England they still are called that - very
confusing). There are surviving round ones (18th century) made from bone and horn, with 4,
8, and up to 44 and 54 pegs, described and pictured in _Mary Thomas's Knitting Book_
(pp. 115). She also describes long rectangular ones like the one your Dad made,
which were used for larger pieces. Similar ones with removable T-shaped pegs are used to
design (and make) complex patterns with purl stitches, doubleknits, etc. These are
also documented in the book by Irena Turnau (which is really hard to find even in
libraries - I have a photocopy of a photocopy, courtesy of a friend of a friend). Knitting
frames are definitely a Renaissance technique.
Mary Thomas's books are readily available from Dover Books, and considering that she
wrote in 1938, her history is amazingly good. She's off in reporting the legend
that the first knitting machine was invented to lighten the work of 'the first woman
named as earning money by knitting' - there were plenty of women named as earning money
by knitting in Europe, according to Turnau. Coptic socks have since been re-labeled
as nalbinding, and Rutt disputes the legend that monks' girdles were spool-knitted,
but there was certainly knitting done, and who's to say that some monk somewhere didn't
have a knitted girdle? The stockings so long attributed to Queen Elizabeth I's personal
stocking knitter are probably not by her - but they are genuinely from that period.
>I'm wondering about having an SCA friend who does woodworking make me
>another one, only use a square piece of wood with a real circle in the
>center with the nails. This would work, I'd think, for experimenting
>with the sock idea.
Good idea. You could make Turkish-looking "afterthought" heels, by making the tube,
opening the location for the heel halfway around the sock, and knitting the heel
the same way the toe is done. Mary Thomas says that professional knitters had graduated
sets of rings for different sizes.
If you're going to try knitting your own SCA socks, be sure to knit with very fine
wool at a very fine gauge (by the 16th century, 16 stitches per inch is basic, 24
is better!). Though some early finds were heavy, most medieval knitting that we have
was done with the equivalent of sport-weight or finer yarn. Think about it - the finer
your yarn, the more square inches of fabric you get out of the same weight of wool,
and correspondingly more cash for the product if it's sold, both because it's finely
textured and because you get more money per ounce of wool used. Thus, peasants had ample
motivation to spin fine wool - the knitting itself only took time and effort, and
they had lots of that. Most medieval knitting was also fulled - deliberately shrunk
to tighten the fabric - though, contrary to Mary Thomas's statement, Turnau says that even
after being fulled, felted, and brushed, the stitches can still be detected.
The Arts & Sciences display at Twelfth Night here in Atlantia had several magnificent
reproductions of medieval and Renaissance knitting - stockings, gloves, hats, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: BPack55294
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:50:55 -1000
Subject: Re: HNW - On the Origins of Knitting
Most likely to be documentable: gloves, mittens (late period), definitely
stockings, caps (i.e. Monmoth Caps). There is a photo of a really neat
knitted jacket in Janet Arnold's Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. I have
also found documentation of knitted "relic purses", so I'm making one for an
A&S entry, but this isn't "garb", so I didn't think it would be up your alley.
There are 38 uses of the word "knit" or its variations in Shakespeare's
works.
You might want to contact Lady Eilowen-Wyn Wright at [email protected]
She has knit a pattern (modern translation by Lady Camilla de la Reynarde)
based upon the Eleanor of Toledo stockings.
I made a knitted cap for use under a helm for the last A&S. I entered it
in "Knitting" and got a I, and in "Armor" and got a II, as the guys just
didn't know quite what to make of it! I had had it "beta tested" at a fight
practice by the head of the household to which I belong, Baron Master Lothair
von Drachenstein. The poor armor judges just didn't know what to do with an
entry which was not metal or leather!!! All these people kept saying to me,
"You should have entreed it in "accessories." That was just TOO predictable
for me, and besides, I liked making the guys use their brains a little!
(Don't forget -- if you want to do the Eleanor of Toledo stockings, they
are knit of red SILK!!! I don't even want to hazard a guess at the Needle #)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: BPack55294
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:57:55 -1000
Subject: Re: HNW - Re: h-needlework V1 #21
Ohhh, I love it when we get conflicting reports, because it drives us all into
research mode! So, now I have to ask, where did the information come from
that Chas I's waistcoat was knitted in the round, and where did the information come
that it was knitted flat? I'm not being "picky", it's just
that "enquiring minds want to know!" If I'm going to add this stuff to my
documentation stash, I gotta know from whence it came. I've discovered that
the postings of this sort are not rendered casually; people who study historic
costuming and historic needlework tend to strive for the facts, so both of the
people who posted regarding "Chas's sweater" must have had a basis for their
statements. Since none of us seem to be in a position to go charging off to a
museum with kit in hand (including magnifying glass), we need to include our
sources with our posts.
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From: SNSpies
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:54:44 -1000
Subject: HNW - References for Historical Knitting
Tamar has recently posted an excellent listing of books which contain information
on pre-17th century knitting. Thank you very much, Tamar. May I
please add to that a further listing of references which I have found extremely useful?
Flury-Lemberg, Mechthild. Textile Conservation and Research. Bern: Abegg-
Stiftung, 1988. This has photographs and descriptions of the 13th century
knitted glove of Archbishop Rodrigo Ximenez de Rada of Spain; there are
photographs of the 15th century liturgical gloves of Bishop Nikolaus Schiner;
it also has the knitting pattern for the men's hats from the shipwreck of
Gnalic (Venice, 1583).
Braun, Joseph. Die Liturgisches Gewandung im Occident und Orient. Freiburg:
Herdersche Verlagshandlung, 1907. This has many photographs of medieval
knitted pontifical gloves.
Schmedding, Brigitta. Mittelalterliche Textilien in Kirchen und Kl�stern der
Schweiz. Bern: St�mpfli & Cie, 1978. Photographs and description of six
14th century knitted relic bags from Swiss churches are shown.
Turnau, Irena. "The Diffusion of Knitting in Medieval Europe." In Cloth and
Clothing in Medieval Europe, edited by N.B. Harte and K.G. Ponting. London:
Heinemann Educational Books, 1983. Exactly what the title says!
Gomez-Moreno, Manuel. El Panteon Real de las Huelgas de Burgos. Madrid:
Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Cientificas, 1946. This is still The Book
on the 13th-14th century textile finds from the royal monastery at Burgos,
Spain, and includes photographs of the two famous pillows.
Mayer-Thurman, Christa. Raiment for the Lord's Service: A Thousand Years of
Western Vestments. Chicago: Art Institute of Chicago, 1975. This has a good
close-up photo of a late 16th-early 17th century ?Spanish pair of gloves as
well as two other pairs from the 17th century.
Crowfoot, Elisabeth, Frances Pritchard, and Kay Staniland. Textiles and
Clothing c.1150-c.1450. London: HMSO, 1992. This contains photographs and
descriptions of fragments of knitting from 14th century London.
M�ller-Christensen, Sigrid, ed. Sakrale Gew�nder des Mittelalters. Munich:
Bayerischen Nationalmuseum, 1955. This has a photograph and description of
the glove belonging to Bishop Otto II from ca. 1200.
Turnau, Irena. "The Knitting Crafts in Europe from the Thirteenth to the
Eighteenth Century." The Bulletin of the Needle and Bobbin Club 65, nrs. 1
and 2 (1982).
As the title says!
Norwick, Braham. "The Origins of Knitted Fabrics." The Bulletin of the
Needle and Bobbin Club 63, nrs. 1 and 2 (1980). Again, as per the title.
Rowe, Margaret T.J. "Fragments from the Tomb of an Unknown Bishop of Saint
Denis, Paris." The Bulletin of the Needle and Bobbin Club 52, nrs. 1 and 2
(1969).
This has a report on a fragment of glove from the grave of a 13th century
bishop.
Grass, Milton. "The Origins of the Art of Knitting." Archaeology 8:3 (Sept
1955). This has photographs and descriptions of Coptic knitting.
Ekstrand, Gudrun. "Some Early Silk Stockings in Sweden." Textile History
13:2 (1982). This article contains photographs and descriptions of some 16th
century Swedish knitted stockings.
Levey, S.M. "Illustrations of the History of Knitting Selected from the
Collection of the Victoria and Albert Museum." Textile History 1 (1969).
This has descriptions and photographs of a Coptic Egyptian pair of socks, two
16th century Spanish ecclesiastical gloves from Spain, and a 16th century
felted English hat.
Scott, Philippa. The Book of Silk. London: Thames and Hudson, 1993. There
is a color photograph of a knitted silk glove, probably Italian or Sicilian,
dating from the end of the 16th-beginning of the 17th century. See page 159.
Wild, John Peter. Textile Manufacture in the Northern Roman Provinces.
Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1970. To quote: "The same tomb [a
late-second-century female burial at Esch ('s-Hertogenbosch) in Holland]
yielded a pair of bronze knitting needles in a wooden case. They are pointed
at one end, blunt at the other, and measured originally about 20 cm. in
length. Their shape and context suggest that knitting was their purpose, but
so far no knitting has been found in the northern provinces."
All of these references should be available through interlibrary loan which I
where I got all of them.
Nancy (Ingvild)
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:22:48 -1000
From: Dick Eney
Subject: Re: HNW - Re: h-needlework V1 #21
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Deborah Pulliam wrote:
> << Flat knitted knit-purl patterning is also observable in Charles II's
> blue silk tunic he wore to his execution, which is shown in Mary Thomas's
> Knitting Book.>>
Ooops it's in _Mary Thomas's Book of Knitting Patterns_, 1943, also
available from Dover. pg. 50. Mea culpa.
> to his execution was knitted in the round, not flat.
Thank you for this information. Obviously you found a good source I
haven't found; may I ask your source? I had assumed it was flat-knitted
because of the way the body shaping was done (trapezoidal looking) and
because the silk knitted jacket that I saw was flat knitted.
=Tamar
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:40:05 -1000
From: Dick Eney
Subject: Re: HNW - On the Origins of Knitting
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Charlene Charette wrote:
> Irene Davis wrote:
>
> > I have watched people do "American style" which is what
> > you call English, and thought the whole process looked overly
> > complicated. I learned Continental as a kid from my Mom.
> As one who has only dabbled in knitting years ago (one of Mother's
> failures), can someone please explain the difference between the two
> styles of knitting - regardless of what they are called?
In English/American style knitting, you wrap the yarn around the end of the knitting
needle using your right hand; you're supposed to wrap the yarn around the tip of
your _right_ forefinger and just twitch it around, but as a self-taught teen I just
let go of the right-hand needle and grabbed the yarn, wrapped it tightly, then completed
the stitch and yanked it tight - this made my knitting extremely tight.
In Continental knitting, which I taught myself after seeing my sister do
it (she's left-handed, didn't learn English-style), you wrap the yarn
around the forefinger of your _left_ hand and manipulate it that way.
It's much faster than my old way was. However, I still do it differently
- I use the tips of two fingers to hold the yarn and move it, because I've
never gotten the hang of one-finger work.
Other differences of manipulation exist - Turkish/Greek/southern French in
the 1930s/some Peruvian or Guatemalan knitters carry the yarn in a pocket
or pouch and wrap the yarn around the neck or a pin or hook on the jacket,
and "throw" the yarn with the left thumb. This method makes purling a lot
easier, and also makes it very easy to do a twisted stitch (not at all the
same as a twined stitch, which is a Scandinavian technique).
Hope this was clear enough.
=Tamar
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: BPack55294
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 04:17:15 -1000
<<
Thank you for the long list of messages about the history of knitting. There
appears to be a knitting history list one can join. I don't think I can do it
because of the additional time at the computer, but sure is good to know there
is one.
I have read all of it and enjoyed it. The only one I have a dissagreement
with is the person doing the review of the book by Heinz Edward Kiewe..."The
Sacred History of Knitting". It was refered to as a pamphlet, and yes he did
publish a pamphlet that was for the exhibitions he presented. The book is a
real book and I consider it one of my prized posessions. >>
I am fortunate that a knit lister in England is being gracious enough to
lend me her copy, though it will be interesting to see if she is sending the
pamphlet or the book, since it appears there really are two different
publications! I intend to return to book to the gracious lady who has offered
to loan it to me. Paul has not had such good luck. He loaned it to some one
with the name of "Mary Knits" who is or was located in Chicago, and has had no
response from her in his efforts to get it back! If any of you know of this
person, please send me her email or snail mail address. Paul says he has not
been able to reach her via the Net, and is giving her the benefit of the doubt
at this time, that she may have computer or health problems. If you are this
person and you are reading this, please send Paul his book!
I am absolutely reveling in all this stuff on the history of
handknitting! I've been saving much of it to disk, pending getting a new
printer cartridge. (The closest place to purchase on is 35 miles away!) This
a.m. I printed it out, and now I'm going to sit down quietly and really get to
peruse it! THANKS to all of you!
bets
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:42:18 -1000
From: Dick Eney
Subject: HNW - Re: HNW & Heinz Kiewe's book
1967... now when was it that the re-evaluations began... In 1955 Milton Grass could
write authoritatively that the Coptic socks were knitted, yet by 1977 it was accepted
that the _earliest_ Coptic socks were done in Egyptian nalbinding, though Turnau
examined all she get to see and found that the linen-&-wool Coptic socks in the Umelecko-Prumyslove
Museum in Prague were knitted (6th-11th centuries), while the similar ones in the
Hermitage in Moscow were nalbinding. It's quite possible that Kiewe published before the archaeologists decided that the socks found in Egyptian tombs must have
been made by nalbinding with the eyed needles found in the same tombs. Some of the
photographs were published in the pamphlet I saw; except for one (the statue from
Cyprus), I found them inconclusive to say the least.
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From: "Su Carter"
Subject: Re: HNW - Kiewe book
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:34:11 -1000
I've read (or at least tried to) both the catalog and the book by Kiewe.
Polite words do not suffice to convey my opinion so I'll borrow a bit from
Bishop Rutt.
On page 195 he comments (please note that he is a gentleman and therefore does
not attack Kiewe in any overt fashion, he let's the man condemn himself and the reader
draw their own conclusion):
"Heinz Kiewe perceived a connection between Aran knitted designs and ancient
Irish art. He never claimed that this was a scholarly theory: he accepted it
as an intuitive perception. In a letter to me he wrote 'I never romanticized,
yet never felt forced to believe in written documents during my 55 years of
research in textile history.' "
One wonders how Kiewe defined 'romanticized'.
To continue, on page 196-198 the Bishop gives details of the development of
Aran sweaters as revealed by the research of Rohanna Darlington. It seems
likely that the distinctive patterns we know as Aran were learned by the
O'Toole sisters during their sojourn on 'some islands off Boston' in the US.
They learned cable, moss, and trellis from some 'foreign immigrant woman'.
When they returned to Ireland in 1908 they shared their new learned patterns
with their friends. Prior to that there is no evidence of such patterning in
Ireland. By 1956 they were being published in _Vogue Knitting_ as Aran
patterns.
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:59:04 -1000
From: Dick Eney
Subject: Re: HNW - Kiewe book
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, BPack55294 wrote:
> While some of the information is helpful, some is interesting, and some
> puts my brain on "tilt". True, I am looking at b&w photos, as opposed
> to looking at the statuary itself, which might make necessary details
> unavailable, but some of his conclusions seem to be a bit of a stretch.
> (AND nothing makes me more out of sorts than for an author to lay down
> a broad, general statement of "fact" with no references cited!!!
> grrrrr . . .)
Yup. Heinz Kiewe is rather noted for that tendency. Since looking at the
photos that were reproduced in the pamphlet, I have seen some other photos of ancient
statuary that make me wonder whether he may have been onto something despite the
amount of apparent fluff in his work.
Sometimes you have to consider that publishers really hate footnotes, and information
from interviews is not footnotable except perhaps as "statement of Mrs. soandso of
xx village taken Date Year."
I just got a 1983 book on traditional Dutch fisherman's sweaters
(translated into English and republished in 1985 by Lark Books):
by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen.
Most of her information comes directly from people in the Netherlands, and she is
rarely specific as to which person she is quoting. There is a list of some individual
names as well as museums in the back, but even the modern scholarly book publishers
are pushing for less-specific footnotes (a trend I deplore). The photos and diagrams
are helpful. I wish she had specified just when (between 1300 and 1700) the storm
in the village of Pernis gave it a harbor, at which point they turned to fishing
and started to knit fisherman's sweaters; the traditional sweater of that village (photo from
sometime in the 19th century) is amazingly fancy. Even that plain statement - that
after 1700 Pernis's fishing industry was a major element in Dutch food supply, and
that they began knitting fishermen's sweaters when they began fishing - helps to document
fishermen's sweaters (whether plain or fancy) to circa 1700 or possibly before.
Which is earlier than any other source I've found! She also
tells of a Dutch fisherman's body being identified by the sweater in May, 1940 (Alice
Starmore's book on Aran Knitting tells of an Irish sailor's body being identified
by the _sock_ knitting).
I am especially intriqued by the circa 1910 photo of a cabin boy wearing a sweater
with knitted bobbles, from a town that is apparently in a part of Netherlands that
is very close to Denmark; she speculates that the bobble-stitch (3 in one, one in
3) may have come from Denmark rather than England. I found this fascinating because according
to Mrs. Randolph's book _Irish Knitting_ (otherwise remarkably unhistorical) a woman
(named in the book) on the Aran Isles told her specifically that her mother and another woman learned the fancy stitches when they spent some time on "an island off
the coast of Boston, Massachusetts" [possibly to earn money though that wasn't said]
in _1928_. But the bobble stitch is clearly documented circa 1920 in the Netherlands.
So is it Danish? Did the two women encounter Danish sailors on an island off Cape
Cod? Did a Cape Cod sailor buy a Danish sweater and take it home?
Or was it a lace stitch? It is very lacy the way the Dutch book shows it, with a
plain row between rows of bobbles, and the Dutch book mentions a widerspread traditional
sweater usually made in England for the Dutch trade, that has an eyelet insert design on the chest of an otherwise plain sweater. (Eyelets were also used in the necks
of Dutch sweaters, and a drawstring run through them to tie the loose necks closed
for more warmth. 19th century and early 20th century photos show big tassels and
pompoms being worn on the end of the drawstrings.)
Unanswerable questions. Does anyone know whether bobble stitch occurs in lace knitting?
I speculate that, done once in a while in a very eyelet-y pattern, it could make
those little dots that were so popular in lace veils.
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:13:46 -1000
From: [email protected] (Deborah Pulliam)
Subject: HNW - h-needlework: knitting
<
Industries Limited, Oxford, England, 1967>>
I've read this book, and it is indeed all based on Kiewe's rather imaginative interpretation
of what he saw in art, not based on extant textiles. He paid scant attention to the
work of archaeologists and historians. He has also been credited with spreading and perpetuating the myth that Aran sweaters are both ancient and designed to identify
wearers when the bodies wash up on the beach.
<
I'd never heard of before. (I wish they'd also shown the doll.) >>
The "doll's hat" probably is one in the V&A reference collection (haven't
seen the article so I can't say for sure) . If it is, there is no doll that
it goes with; it's in storage with some Coptic socks, which are nalbinding.
Deborah
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From: BPack55294
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:50:31 -1000
Subject: Re: HNW - h-needlework: knitting
< He paid scant attention to the work of archaeologists and
historians >>
Yeesh! No kidding! Especially in his interpretations of "armor"! He thinks
that William the Conquerer won the Battle of Hastings in wool knit jammies!
He also thinks the Ascension and the Resurection/Easter are the same thing!
Has the man never read the Book of the Acts of the Apostles? (But then, this
is knitting hx not Bible study. But if you're going to cite a Biblical
reference, or any other, it needs to be correct!)
But there are some other very valid conclusions mixed in. One simply has to read
carefully and think for oneself!
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