From: [email protected] (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
Subject: Re: gores in the 13th century
Date: 8 Jul 1997 02:48:46 GMT
Greeting from Thora Sharptooth!
Tangwystyl ([email protected]) wrote:
>: May I append the same question as to gores in the 6th-8th cent, also
>: chiefly in Gaul (France) but England or Wales as well - or anywhere else
>: you know about at that time. (Well, all right, I really don't care
>: about gores in Persia or Japan, and I'm almost positive you wouldn't
>: find any in North America, but anywhere in Europe and contiguous
>: points.)
>
>: Guendid Gosefot
>
>The garments that I can bring to mind from this period do not have gores,
>but rather are "cut" straight. ("Cut" in quotes because in general they
>are made from full loom widths or woven to shape with the sleeves
>included.) On the other hand, the garments from this period that I can
>think of are primarily men's shorter tunics, where flare is less
>essential. (E.g., the Thorsbjorg tunic.)
The "Grande Robe" from the Frankish finds associated with the "Relics of
Bathilde" at Chelles is a linen women's overgarment dated to approximately the
8th or 9th century. It is a robe open down the middle that would have been
worn belted. It is cut in several pieces, including a complex collar and
lapel arrangement, with separately cut long tapered sleeves and four narrow
triangular side gores. The thing that really sets it apart, however, is the
triangular gore inserted point-down in the top of the back half of the body
panel (which itself is cut in one piece with a slit running all down the front
and partway down the back). This has the effect of widening the garment
across the upper back, and it is thought that the garment would have been worn
pleated on the shoulders to take up the excess width.
The garment is thought to have been cut from a piece of fabric 6.8 meters long
and 85 cm wide. See Jean-Pierre LaPorte and Raymond Boyer, _Tresors De
Chelles: Sepultures et Reliques de la Reine Bathilde et de l'Abbesse
Bertille_, for a cutting draft.
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Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth
[email protected] Frostahlid, Austrriki
Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
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From: [email protected] (Heather Rose Jones)
Subject: Re: welsh costuming
Date: 6 Jul 1997 03:27:20 GMT
MorganLFey ([email protected]) wrote:
: my persona is female welsh 1327. i have been playing for a little over 7
: years, and i would at long last like to make an attempt at actually
: recreating the persona i chose so long ago, rather than continuing to just
: wear whatever is comfortble, clean, and easy to make.
: what i am asking is if there is anyone out there who knows of a book or
: books of *costuming* (preferably with some semblance of a pattern as i am
: a seamstress, but alas, not a miracle worker) ideas befitting my country
: and time. if said book(s) is/are available at my local Media Play, Barnes
: and Nobles or other such bookstores, or if i need to order something
: special off the net. i must admit that i have been exceedingly lazy in
: attempting to research this, but i would hope that all my brother (and
: sister) welsh women (and men) would overlook that minor iniquity and
: assist me in my endeavor. thanks be to all.
When I researched my booklet on Welsh costume, I primarily confined myself
to the pre-1300 period -- for the simple reason that, after the fall of
the last of the native Welsh rulers in the late 13th century, the Welsh
nobility looked toward England for fashions in material culture. To the
best of my research, for the upper classes, there were no substantial
differences between Welsh and English costume from perhaps the 13th
century or so onward. There are some descriptions of Welsh lower-class
clothing from the 13th century that suggest there may have been
identifiably "Welsh" characteristics to their dress (in matters such as
materials and the lack of certain items of expected clothing) but it is
difficult to tell which of these characteristics are a mattern of
nationality and which are a matter of class or economic status.
I would say that for the 14th century you are fairly safe in extrapolating
from contemporary English fashions -- perhaps allowing for a slight
time-lag in diffusion and probably avoiding the really "high-end"
materials and sticking to native wools and linens.
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
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