Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 03:38:08 -1000
From: Margaret Rae Carignan
Subject: Re: Phyllis Cunnington book

It's been a long time since I looked at the Cunnington's books, but I'll tell you what I know. Phyllis and her husband, C. Willett Cunnington were both historical costume researchers in the early part of this century. They wrote a number of books, together and separately (including a
"History of Underclothes" tha's pretty interesting).

As with any costume history book written before 1980, (or after, for that matter) there are a number of questionable points made in these books. Questionable, if you read lots of other books, and start comparing "facts" between them.

The Cunnington books rely mostly on drawings of costume, and don't go into great detail on actual construction. They were, however, the main source for historical costumers for a great many years, and you're bound to find some usefull stuff in them.

For more on construction of costumes of this period, look for these other books, (if you haven't already) that are more modern, and are considered required reading for costumers interested in the Tudor and Elizabethan periods:

1. Jean Hunnisett " Period Costume for Stage and Screen", Bell & Hyman, 1986. There are currently two volumes, with a third (On Medieval and Renaissance) on the way. The one you want deals with Tudor to 18th century. These are aimed at the theatrical, rather than the historical, but do give patterns, and some really good tips for making fabrics look better. She's aiming at experienced costumers, but if you're doing this period, you'll become expereinced real quick!

2. Janet Arnold "Patterns of Fashion - The cut and construction of clothes for men and women, c1560 - 1620", Drama Books, 1985. This book (and the others in the series), look at actual, remaining clothing in close-up photos, from which she has made patterns, and copious construction notes. These tell you how specific clothes were made - fabric, thread and trimmings. In the introduction, she gives lots of valuable general information about how clothes were cut, who cut them, and who wore them. One of the reason's that Janet Arnold is called the
Costume Laurel's Friend. One of the others is

3. Arnold "Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd", W.S> Maney $ Sons, Leed,
1988.

This one includes a complete inventory of Elizabeth's "Wardrobe of Robes", from the year she died. Better still, it includes lots of different portraits of Bess and her Court, and pletny of close-up photos of existing fabrics, embroideries and accessories. Definietly Elizabethan, though - very little of interest to Tudors.

4. Jane Ashelford, "A Visual History of Costume - The Sixteenth Century", B.T. Batsford, London, 1983.

This one looks at a variety of portraits (mostly English) from the period, each of which Ashelford describes as to fabric, trimming, and accessories. She doesn't explain how the things were made, but it's still of interest.

I hope you will forgive me if I have just told you a bunch of stuff you didn't want to know, or already knew; years of teaching late-period costuming has produced an interesting brain-disorder that causes me to try to say everything I know in 10 minutes. (The frightening part is, I can almost manage to do it!)

If there is any way I can assist you in your quest for costuming info, please don't hesitate to ask.

Oh, by the way, I didn't introduce myself. In the SCA, I am Maestra Francesca della L'Aura di Firenze and I live in the Barony of Ruantallan. In "real" life, I am a Costume Studies student at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. I received my Laurel for Costuming last November, so I'm still new at that part, but I've been teaching Scadians for 10 years. I always love to hear about other peoples experiences trying to re-create costumes of any period. In this way, we all learn from each other.

Good luck!
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:51:24 -1000
Reply-To: Maggie Percival
From: Maggie Percival
Subject: Re: H-COSTUME Digest - 25 Sep 1996 to 26 Sep 1996

>My best friend (and current Queen of Caid in the SCA) uses cable ties for boning her corsets also. She works for the phone company (GTE) and they go thru reams of the stuff. It's a fairly stiff plastic, at least the 3/8 inch stuff is, and works well in place of straight metal bones. I've used the smaller stuff on her recommendation (the regular ties you can get at Radio Shack or the hardware store) for boning my Italian Ren corset and they work terrific. Filing the ends is a must, tho, since they tend to wear thru couteil and canas if they aren't filed (sharp edges, ouch!).

In the past I have found that even some synthetic boning can cause problems with wearing through fabric because of sharp edges. On the last garment that I used it for where this might have happened (a fantasy costume bodice) instead of filing down the ends I heat sealed them. I got an old knife, heated it up and then gently applied it to the ends of the plastic boning, which melted slightly and gave me a smooth finish.
>
--
Maggie
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:33:23 -1000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Corsets

Hello,

Spiral or spring steel boning is the best for making most styles of corsets. These bones are available from Greenberg and Hammer, they have a mail order catalog and are very helpfull. Their address is Greenberg and Hammer, Inc. 24 West 57th St., New York, NY 10019 (212)246-2835. They do have a minimum. They are the most inexpensive place I have found to buy bonning.

Have fun
Etienette
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 07:17:21 -1000
From: Andrew Tarrant
Subject: Re: Corsets

Boning could also be as simple as bunches of fine reeds sandwitched together. An example of this can be found on page 46 of Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion The cut and construction of clothes for men and women c1560-1620. The photos show a stomacher which has been made over from an earlier corset, and it is parallel rows of bundled reeds (about 20 reeds per bundle) on the horizontal, and 4 pieces of whale bone to reinforce it are placed across these at an angle.
- Julie=20
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From: Margaret Rae Carignan
Subject: Re: Phyllis Cunnington book

I envy you the adventure you are embarking on; beginning to learn what there is to know about Medieval and Renaissance costuming is like setting off on a long, arduous, sometimes frustrating, but ultimately rewarding journey. Indeed, while I am a few miles farther along, I still have many, many more to go before I know what is already known by others! If there is
any way in which I can help you, (even if it means diercting you to other people with more knowledge than I have in the area of your interest), please do not hesitate to ask. By the bye, if you really want to know how they did it then, Janet Arnold is better than Jean Hunnisett; Jean is
theatre, Janet is museum!

Yours in Service to Overdressing,

Maestra Francesca
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 16:00:00 -1000
From: "Chandler, Sally A."
Subject: German Artificial Whalebone

The wonderful artificial boning I said I'd post details about is as follows:

It is available in dimensions:

5 x 1.0mm
6 x 1.0mm
7 x 1.0mm
10 x 1.0mm
12 x 1.5mm sold by the metre at prices ranging from DM 0.42 to DM 1.00

Individual bones in lengths are also available but I can't read my
notes to see what sizes or prices.

It is sold / produced by Wissner Gmbh
Postfach 1423
Hohenstaufenstrasse 8 -14
D-73033
Goppingen
Germany

(There should be an umlaut " on the O in Goppingen but this machine won't do
them!)

The catch is that, by mail order, the minimum quantity is 200m. If anyone
within reach in the UK is interested I'd be interested in getting together
to make up an order.

Sally Ann Chandler
The Historical Clothing Company
[email protected]
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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:45:35 -1000
From: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Phyllis Cunnington book

Lisa,
As with all sources, consider the source. The Cunningtons (Mr & Mrs) were early 20thC collectors of vintage clothing in England. Their efforts saved thousands of pieces from rubbish heaps and worse. They were pioneers in the field that became Costume History.

However, since they were pioneers, and since they were Victorian/Edwardian armchair anthropologists, their interpretations need re-interpreting. If you are doing research on what the Cunningtons and other people of their time had to say, then their books are excellent sources. If you want to know about something else, then they are secondary sources and must be treated as such.

Try to get it on Interlibrary Loan before you spend any money on it.

Please do not think that I am trashing the Cunningtons. I am not. I am merely trying to put their hard work into perspective, just as someone 50 years from now may do with mine.

Good Luck,
Mary Denise Smith
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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:20:40 -1000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Tudor books

Glad you found a copy of the Cunnington book. Track down a copy of COSTUME IN THE AGE OF ELIZABETH I, by Jane Ashelford. Take a look at the bibliography (which includes the Cunningtons, incidentally) and go from there. Do that with all books - just photocopy the biblio. In a real short time you'll have a fine list of references. Then go make your reference librarian crazy.

Incidentally, the December issue of my magazine, COSTUME & DRESSMAKER, The Magazine For Serious Costumers will be devoted to research. One of the articles is by a reference librarian.

Good Luck,

Mary Denise
aka Lady Marged Tylluan Fach
Shire of Caer Galen
The Outlands
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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:31:14 -1000
From: Margaret Rae Carignan
Subject: Re: Janet Arnold

I have yet to see any text that gives reliable information on construction techniques pre-1560. I suspect that there is little remaining costume suitable for close study - anything that does exist (a few cotehardies and suchlike) would likely be too fragile to handle. I would be likely to use the same construction techniques (seam finishing, lining and such) from Arnold. There are a couple of excellent sources of information on the earlier Gothic and 14th century; there is a Visual History of Costume volume for the Gothic period (I cana't remember the author, but it is the same series as the Jane Ashelford); there is another good book by Stella Mary Newton, called Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince that discusses the cotehardie, the developement of the set-in sleeve, and other really usefull goo. Did you know that Edward had his motto (It is that it is)
embroidered around the hems of all his tunics? So Cool!

Please forgive me for having gone tangential on you at first - I think I have a late-period metal plate in my head. I'll let you know as soon as I hear about Hunnisett's medieval period book. It was supposed to be out this year. I know it's theatrical, but I still find these things usefull in the absence of other information. Have fun!

Meg
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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:49:07 -1000
From: Sheryl Nance-Durst

>I am a theatre tech student majoring in costuming, and have a question no
>one has been able to give me a clear answer on. Sometime back I heard a
>rumour that there was an IBM program out there that could be used for
>designing costume.

Sharon,

There are a number of software packages designed for the home sewer that might work. Check out http://www.hk.super.net/~rlowe/sew.html It's a page listing most of these packages with comments on them & links to places where you can download free demos of them. If you are specifically looking for something designed for the theatre, then I only know of onesoftware package. It's called "B Famous on Stage". The web page for it is
http://www.newstuff.com/
I haven't used any of them myself, but I imagine that at least one of these programs would be useful to you.

To the person who mentioned "Fittingly Sew": I was under the impression that the company that developed this is no longer selling it. Did another company pick it up? I was thinking about buying it, but they discontinued it before I could make up my mind. :(

Sheryl J. Nance-Durst ...one of the secret masters of
Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They
[email protected] control information. Don't ever
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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:55:00 -1000
From: Mrs C S Yeldham
Subject: Drawstring necklines

>Mrs C S Yeldham wrote:
> friends working on this are now putting drawstring necks to the 18th century at the earliest),

Tetchubah said

>Maybe in England, but not in Italy. Drawstring necks were done in the Renaissance there - look at Lynne Lawner's "Lives of the Courtesans" for several examples. There's a particularly good one on page 102 of Palma Vecchio's "Flora" from the 16th century - this chemise is obviously drawn shut since it is partially opened and the blue ribbon drawstring is blatently visable. There's another example on page 112 from Raphael, although it's less obvious there. And if your copy has the dust jacket, the front cover painting is also a drawstring chemise (again illustrated well), again by Vecchio.

>But I don't recall any examples of this from Tudor paintings, at least nothing real obvious.

I have to be pedantic here. If you say 'Tudor' or 'Elizabethan' then you mean England, before or after 1558 (this is where I get the date wrong!). There are other terms referring to Europe or parts of Europe, which do not apply to England (or other countries) eg Counter-Reformation Europe refers explicitly to post-1562 Catholic Europe (after the Council of Trent). Renaissance Italy usually refers to late 15th century, very early 16th century, before the impact of the Reformation (about 1515).

Secondly, I don't know these particular pictures, but I have seen others from the period which *look* like drawstrings. In ones I've examined carefully, what looks like a drawstring, usually a ribbon, actually has the gathers sewn to it - it would not have run freely. I made the smock of my wedding dress this way, based on a 1515 Italian picture.

I cannot think of any Tudor or Elizabethan picture where the smock has a drawsting neck. The fashions in Italy were very different to those in England - read Shakespeare's plays for contemporary views on Italians!

Sorry to be dogmatic about it, but it is one of the myths that turns up in the events I do, together with the idea that every woman showed off as much of her bosom as possible!

Caroline
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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:53:24 -1000
From: Alice Morgan
Subject: Re: "Costume Design for Dummies"

Sheryl,
Thank you for the web page pointer. I'm also looking for some good pattern drafting software.
members of the list,
>From the web page, the package "Symmetry" from Wild Ginger looks interesting.
http://www.wild-ginger.com/wginger/homepage.htm

I'd want to look into it for a while longer, but would there be enough interest on the list that we (various people on the list) could try to buy 5 or more of either "custom pattern" or "complete package" and get the package discount ($100 to $200 off). Custom pattern is listed at $495 US single, $395 US for five or more. Complete package is listed at $795 US single, $595 US for five or more Its a lot of money I realize, especially with end of year holiday expenses coming up, but maybe we can look at as a gift to ourselves ;-)

It looks like the main difference between the custom and the complete package is the ability to do grading to multiple sizes. I'm personally more interested in the custom, but can see the usefullness of the grading package down the line.

Is there other people interested in this on the list?

Alice
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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:25:09 -1000
From: "Carol E. Newby"
Subject: Re: Costume Design Software.
To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME

I agree it is a wonderful program - unfortuneately the company is no longer selling it. I purchased a similar program called Pattern Maker that I am pleased with so far, though I'm still getting familiar with it and haven't actually printed a pattern yet. They have a web site at:
http://www.eskimo.com/~pmaker/

Carol
~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:04:13 -1000
From: Laura Nunemaker
Subject: Re: Costume Design Software.

If Fittingly Sew is no longer being sold, I where it stands as far as copyrights go. I mention this because I have a copy for the Macintosh and if I can share without getting into trouble, I will.
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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:44:25 -1000
From: Dale Loberger
Subject: Pattern drafting systems

For those of you who are interested, Isabelle Lott supplies an AutoCAD add-on for pattern drafting. It is state-of-the-art. For a sample disk, contact PC-Pattern, at PatternWorks, 2530 W. Mulford Ct., SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 (616) 949-3429. It runs on IBM 486 or higher with 8 mg. RAM (if you already operate AutoCAD you don t have to upgrade your hardware usually to run PC-Pattern) There is a Mac version. I personally do not use this program although I did get the sample disk. One day .It is very impressive and does have a complete sloper library.

... I still plod along in a map-drafting package .sigh.

Those out there who have not yet tried the wonders of computer drafting or digitizing a pattern and need an incentive, here s one: it is unbelievably simple to use those complicated graphed patterns a la Janet Arnold, etc. Simply digitize in the pattern at the proper scale (ex.: 1/10th" square = 1square inch) and all of a sudden you have incredible flexibility in changing the size of the bust, shoulder, back waist length, etc., all by moving the mouse. You can preview the finished pattern piece on the screen and check for scale, fit, etc., _before_ you print it out and save so much trouble (and measuring and guessing and erasing in the old method by hand). By overlaying a pattern piece in your file (such as a front bodice piece) that you know fits with the new one, you can compare how the new one may fit before you ever even cut a sample muslin. It s an incredible time-saver and after you get used to it, it really does open up new possibilities and allows you to try things you probably wouldn t if you hadn t had access to this technology.

Now, what would really be neat would be the capability to fit the pieces together on the screen, such as those tricky curved 1840 s bodice seams, and view them in 3-D to check and see how the ease allowed will work after you make your size adjustments. I know you can do this with
engineering drawings (such as pipe fittings) in AutoCAD; I don t know if PC-Pattern allows you to do this or not. Saundra, are you listening?

I know, this sounds pretty dumb coming from an anachronism like me. Digitize the patterns so I can stitch the garments by hand. Go figure! But patternmaking is such an exacting task that as far as I am concerned, every little bit helps, from the math to selecting the proper line width and not worrying about if it will be legible. For me, this part is a science. The art comes later, when I put needle to cloth.

Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring
(Susan Bridges Loberger for Susannah s Heirloom, Ltd.)
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Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:29:31 -1000>
From: Margaret Rae Carignan
Subject: Re: H-COSTUME Digest - 2 Oct 1996 to 3 Oct 1996



Oh, and for documentation hounds (UNITE!), the sixteenth century ladies linen chemise with the polychrome embroidery described in "Cut My Cote" (Dorothy K. Burnham, Royal Ontario Museum) had permanently shaped neckline and wrist gathers.

Meg/Francesca
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Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 20:07:29 -1000
From: Chris Laning
Subject: Things they didn't care about...


I don't know if you have seen a book called _An Anonymous Woman: Her Work_ by (root around hunting for my copy...darn!) It's an analysis of an early 17th-century sampler, with patterns in double-sided blackwork (some in two or more colors) and in variations of cross stitch.

The Great Revelation to me on this one was that the author matter-of-factly states that the fabric used has 17 threads to the centimeter in one direction and 22 in the other. *It is NOT square.* And the sampler's maker apparently didn't care in the least: she worked the patterns in every case to the counted thread, despite the fact that they look squashed, and would undoubtedly have looked squashed the other way if she'd turned a corner.

Maybe this is another thing that we fuss about a lot (paying extra for special "square" linen for counted thread work...) that needleworkers back then didn't think was a big deal at all.
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Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 04:38:59 -1000
From: Sheryl Nance-Durst
Subject: New Book on Tudor/Stuart Era

I found this new book on one of my library's databases. Sorry it's only partially about costume. Has anyone seen this one yet? Is it any good?

ACCESSION: 34046617
AUTHOR: Hull, Suzanne W., 1921-
TITLE: Women according to men :
the world of Tudor-Stuart women /
PLACE: Walnut Creek :
PUBLISHER: AltaMira Press,
YEAR: 1996
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: 239 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
NOTES: Includes bibliographical references (p. 203-227) and index.
Introduction : setting the scene -- Rules for wives -- Health
habits and household remedies -- Misconceptions on conception --
Care of babies -- Raising daughters -- Preparing food -- Face and
fashion -- Conclusion.
ISBN: 0761991190 0761991204 (pbk.)
SUBJECT: English literature -- Early modern, 1500-1700 -- History and
criticism.
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Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:13:28 -1000
Reply-To: Susan Carroll-Clark
Sender: Historic Costume List
From: Susan Carroll-Clark
Subject: Re: 12th and 13th century clothing

Greetings!

Finally a question I can say something about!

Megan asked about 12th/13th century clothing. This has been my primary period of interest for the past five years, with the emphasis on the 13th century. Most of the sources I'll list talk about both.

First, for an overview, have a look at the relevant sections in Milia Davenport's _The Costume Book_. Good pictures, but no patterns or the like (a trend which will continue).

Then, move on to a couple of the more in-depth surveys. Cunnington's _Handbook of English Medieval Costume_ and Yarwood's _English Costume_ are good sources. Joan Evans has one covering the same period in France whose name escapes me at the moment.

To learn about the fabrics used, you should have a look at Crowfoot et. al.'s _Textiles and Clothing_, which is published by HMSO under the auspices of the Museum of London.

Then, after looking at these various sources, look at as many manuscript illuminations and statuary as you can, noting the way the folds fall, where the wrinkles are, how many layers are involved, and so forth.

I'll give you a quick overview of 13th century styles. In the early part of the century, the predominate style was a belted gown worn over an undergown, which often showed at the neck and was closed with a pin. As the century wore on, these gowns' sleeves became tighter and tighter below the elbows, and the bust area also became somewhat tighter, making the skirt look as if it was flaring more. Belts were fairly thin and still worn at the waist, with the material blousing over it. Some time about the middle of the century, the surcote for women began to be worn. This was cut much like the gown, but had no sleeves and was worn without a belt. This style came to predominate (in England, at least) by about 1280, although the other style did not disappear. Over the next 3/4 century, the slits in the surcote would gradually get lower, evolving into the sideless surcote in the 14th century. The tight sleeves seen in the 13th century gowns and the trend towards a tightening through the body would also continue into the 14th century, where the lacing or sewing of the sleeves was replaced by buttons. It should be mentioned that while straight cutting is still used in the 13th century (especially at the sleeve heads), experimentation with ways to achieve tighter fits in certain places, including lacing and curved seams, had been on-going since perhaps as early as the 11th century.

Men wore similar cuts as women, with the most common length in this century falling about the mid-calf, and slowly rising towards the end. They also adapted the surcote, originally a military fashion, earlier than women.

Headgear for women consisted of a variety of veils, wimples, hair netting (you can see surviving examples in the Museum of London book), "fillets" (bands of linen worn about the head, sometimes fluted) and "pillbox-style hats"--small pleated caps worn with a "chinstrap-style" wimple and a hair net. Men wore hats, too, the most common being a simple coif.

Hope this helps!
Susan Carroll-Clark
[email protected]
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Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 04:59:28 -1000
From: Gunnora Hallakarva
Subject: Re: Early Period Fitted Garments

Heilsa, Everyone.

Several people have contacted me regarding the German sources for the information on fitted/tailored Viking women's garments. The source I mentioned which describeds the Haithabu finds is:

Hagg, Inga, "Die Textilfunde aus dem Hafen von Haithabu. Beriche uber die Ausgrabungen in Haithabu," Bericht 20. Neumunster: Karl Wachholz Verlag, 1984.

There may be other sources by this time, but not being a textile archaeologist, I'm not as current in the field. I tend to get the info as it trickles down into English research. I got my first hint of this information reading:

Jesch, Judith. Women in the Viking Age. Woodbridge: Boydell. 1991. ISBN 0-85115-278-3.

"Thus, the largest collection of Viking Age terxtiles comes from the underwater excavation in 1979-80 of the harbour at Haithabu (Hedeby), the southernmost emporium of Viking Age Scandinavia, now in Germany near the Danish border. These textile fragments wree all discraded clothing which had been torn up into rags and used in shipbuilding, either for tarring the outside of a ship or stuffing into cracks to make it watertight.

"The simplest clothes found at Haithabu were made of the roughest woolen fabric, suggesting that these were the clothes of slaves, servants and the poor, or the daily dress of the better-off. The women's garments consisted of very simple anlkle-length, long-sleeved dresses, cut loose to enable freedom of movement at work, and possibly a simple wrap or shawl.

"Better-quality clothing was also found in the rags of Haithabu and here the finds are similar to those of the clothing from Birka and elsewhere in Scandinavia: over a linen shift, women wore an overdress of fine woolen fabric, held up by the ubiquitous pair of brooches. However, whereas elsewhere the overdress has always been reconstructed as a straight garment, the Haithabu finds indicate that there at least it was tailored at the waist. Tucks and decorative braid running vertically further emphasized the wearer's shape. Outdoors, the better-off women of Haithabu wore an ankle-length coat, again quite wide at the bottom. These coats were made of high-quality dyed wool that had been felted to make it weather-resistant,
and were lined, and often quilted with down or feathers for added warmth." (Jesch, p. 17-18)

If you are having trouble locating the texts by Hagg or Jesch, I highly recommend:

Krupp, Christina and Carolyn A. Priest-Dorman. "Women's Garb in Northern Europe: 450-1000 CE: Frisians, Angles, Franks, Balts, Vikings and Finns." Compleat Anachronist 59. Milpitas: Society for Creative Anachronism. 1992. (available for $4 + SH from The Office of the Stock Clerk, P.O. Box 360789, Milpitas, CA 95036-0789. Call (408)956-5444 for details.)

While I don't know Krupp's background, Priest-Dorman is an expert in Viking Age textiles and fashions. This pamphlet is very well done on a scholarly level that is still extremely useful to anyone wishing to reconstruct early-period women's clothing from Northern Europe. Information from this pamphlet includes:

"The tenth-century smocks from Hedeby included such refinements as 'wide, rounded neck openings; the sharply curved armholes; seperate lengths of fabric used in the construction, with gores inserted' and front and back 'sides sewn together at the shoulders' [Hagg, 1984, p. 171].... In the tenth century at Birka and Hedeby there is evidence for pieced construction including seperately-cut sleeves, shoulder seams, and gores in gowns. At Hedeby especially, there is clear evidence that the torso section of a gown 'fitted closely to the body and ... was widened by the addition of several triangular gores, widening significantly toward the bottom.' [Hagg, 1984, p. 177]" (Krupp and Priest-Dorman, p. 43-44)

According to Krupp & Priest-Dorman, the "Viking apron" consisting of two rectangles worn tabard-style is a misconception:

"Fifty years ago Agnes Geijer postulated that Viking aprons were made from large untailored rectangles wrapped around the body. Due perhaps to the fact that this postulate was in a German book published in Sweden, not many writers of popular Viking books in English got the picture. Most illustrators drew Viking women dressed in two hanging panels connected by
brooches. The more recent works by Inga Hagg, who examines the finds of women's clothing at Birka and Hedeby in exacting detail, clearly contradict that assumption.

"The apron-dress, a direct decendant of the peplos dress, was worn suspened over the shoulders by paired brooches hooked through looped straps.... In the earlier period most apron-dresses were made of wool, but like the other layers, in the later period a few were apparently made of linen. No examples of embroidered or metal-trimmed apron-dresses have been published, However, many were richly colored; some were ornamented with woven or braided trim at the top, and some were lined with silk.

"Hagg [1974, pp. 108-9] suggests that in its early, untailored incarnation, the apron-dress was likely to have been sewn closed like a peplos. Her work, based on the finds from Hedeby, indicates that some apron-dresses were even tailored to fit closely to the body: 'the pieces come from a garment cut and sewn in several panels. The garment narrows at the waist and is made even more fitting by tucks or darts at the waist. Lower down, it widens over the hips.' [Hagg, 1984, p. 169]"

"Although the fragments are incomplete, definite evidence of tailoring can b e discerned, consisting of long, vertical tapered darts taken in the torso area between breast and hip. Decorative narrow strips of braid in two colors were applied ion the outside of the dart seams of this apron-dress at Hedeby, much as braids were applied over the seams of clothing in several localities, including Birka." (Krupp & Priest-Dorman, pp. 45-46)

For those who are interested, the other works cited in the pamphlet quotes above are:

Hagg, Inga. "Kvinnodrakten i Birka: Livplaggens Rekonstruktion pa Grundval av det Arkaeologiska Materialet." Uppsala: Archaeological Institute, 1974.

Geijer, Agnes. "Die Textilfunde aus den Grabern," Vol III of Birka: Untersuchungen und Studien. Uppsala: Kungl. Vitterhets Historie och Antikvitets Akademien, 1938.

If you need more detailed information, please feel free to contact me. If your questions go beyond my skills (I am *not* a textile archaeologist) I'd refer you to Carolyn Priest-Dorman (Mistress Thora Sharptooth in the SCA) at [email protected]

Wassail,

::GUNNORA::
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Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:35:14 -1000
From: Susan Carter
Subject: Re: Paintings as documentation

Wow, I had forgotten about the Noel Hume painting stuff in Martin's Hundred - have to read it again!

Another excellent read is "The Tudor Image" by Maurice Howard. It was published by the Tate Gallery to accompany the Dynasties exhibit. ISBN # 1-85437-159-2 price L 7.95.
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Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:59:07 -1000
From: Gary Anderson <[email protected]>
Subject: Corset busks

Yes, we do! This is Gary Anderson for Raiments/AlterYears (back online after getting back to 10-12 hour workdays). We carry busks in 9 to 16 inch lengths, every 1 inch. Plus all the other boning, plus wooden busks, plus... Well, you get the idea. These were in stock when I was down at the store earlier today, and we mailorder anything at the store. (818) 585-2994
phone, this email address, or drop in if you are in southern California. Hours are 10-4:30 PST Tues, Wed, Fri; 10-7:30 Thurs (That's SCA night), and 11-5:30 Sat.

Gary the AlterYears/Raiments Ook
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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 06:23:41 -1000
From: Julie Adams
Subject: Re: Early 16th C. Shirt Embroidery

Have you noticed that in many Holbein and other German/Flemish painters of the period often show a verticle strip of blackwork on the inside of the neck opening? It is clearly used as an interfacing. Many of the patterns shown on the inside of the collar could not possibly be the back of what is shown on the outside, just due to the differences in pattern type. IMHO, the ruffs and ruffles may be double-sided, but the collar, cuff, and neckbands were lined with separate pieces. The basis for my rationalle is:

1) The embroidery patterns are not compatible.

2) If you examine the construction you see that there is no visible rolled edge seam where the ruffle meets the neckband, indicating that the inner fabric covers the selvage of the seams where the ruffles meat the collar like an interlining. This construction matches the construction that is shown in other sources for the garments of this period (1500-1540).

3) A unlined collar would be likely to buckle, crumple and crush. I believe that there was some interfacing for stiffening as well as the embroidered interlining, which would give support and strength to the collar piece. One layer of embroidered linen will not keep a collar standing.

Whether he made the patterns up or not, there are similar patterns in the paintings and woodcuts of other artists of the period.

I have a cute little softcover book:

German Renaissance Patterns for Embroidery, Curious Works Press, A Facsimile copy of Nicolas Basse'es New Modelbuch of 1568 ISBN 0-9633331-4-3

Which is a reprint of a period book, but also has some good explanitory text. It includes several patterns similar to those found in Holbein's work.
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Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:52:06 -1000
From: Julie Adams
Subject: Re: 15th and 16th c. T-tunics


These tunics are still worn with the short-caped hood still into the 16th c., a style I normally associate with the 14th c. or earlier. Some of the later period examples, such as those from the Book of Trades are more likely to show the tunics worn over various pluderhosen and full breeches instead of the tighter hosen/fitted breeches. Certainly these examples are open for interpretation, but I would say that if I saw someone make an interpretation of these as a T-cut tunic, it would be no more invalid than any other, where period fabrics, decorations and construction techniques were used. If I were a judge and they provided me this documentation for a 16th c. peasant or working class tradesman, I would be hard put to argue it. For here amongst the puffed and slashed and fitted, the skirted and pleated, are simple tunics abound. In "Herr und Knecht" the book goes from about 1100 to 1570s, comparing the relationship of peasants to their landowners, so its easy to look at the tunics shown for 1150 and then turn right to the ones for 1530. Darn if those tunics don't look like the same garment to me. Here are some for you all to look up:

The Triumph of Maximillian (about 1510)
- Plates 132-137 The Baggage Train

Etchings and Engravings of Albrecht Durer
- Peasant and Wife at Market
- Bearing of the Cross
- Three Peasants in Conversation
- Rustic Couple
- The Ill-assorted Couple or The offer of Love
- Coat of Arms with Skull
Also look at Durer's early woodcuts

Authentic Everyday Dress of the Renaissance All 154 Plates from the
"Trachtenbuch" by Christopher Weiditz (Dover Press) (1530s-1560s)
Plate XXIX &XXX Spanish Peasant Ploughing
Plate XXXII. Cleaning Corn in Spain
Plate XXXIV Transporting Corn and Flour in Spain
Plate XXXV & XXXVI Castilian waterseller
Plate LXVII Escort of a noble woman in Barcelona
Plates CXII-CXII Various Basque Women - the overshirt

Bruegel:
Twelve Proverbs (there are at least two)
The flight between Carnival and Lent - 1559
- the man in a long pink gown up front left
- fellow in pale yellow dancing at left edge and man in gray behind him
- man blue/gray carrying jugs or baskets in top left near plague doctors
- man with son in top right wearing blue/gray
Childrens Games - 1560
- various children
The Month of August-the Corn Harvest 1565
- The shirts of all the men working.
St. John the Babtist preaching in the wilderness
- man in gold in front of young landsknecht
- man in blue far right
Vecellio's Renaissanc Costume Book (Dover Press) mostly late 16th c.
- 132 Scappoli - Venician sailor
- 138, 139 Venetian Porters and Stevedores
- 311 Bohemian Commoner

Martin Schoengauer
- A Wise Virgin

Pieter van der Heyden
- The Thin Kitchen

Barthel Beham
- Peasant Holiday

Sebald Beham
- Church Anniversary Holiday at Mogelsdorf

Herr und Knecht by Hartmut Zwahr (German Publication)
- Many woodcuts by Johann Grieninger from Strasburg c. 1502
p. 96,110, 154, 155,
- Martin Schongauer 1483 Stehendes Madchen
- Albrecht Durer 1490 Junges Madchen
- Lucas van Leyden 1520 Uylenspiegel
- Hans Sebald Beham 1526 Verlorene Muhe
- Hans Sebald Beham 1544 Fahnrich und Trommier (the Drummer)
- Erhard Schoen 1533 Das Schlaraffenland

The Book of Trades - Jost Amman (Dover Press)
- Fig 2,3, 6,7 by Ulm Master - Six mechanical arts - 1475
- Fig 17 and 18 from Les Ordonnances de Paris - Scenes of Trade: Timber
Haulers and Charcoal Burners - 1500/01
- Fig 24 - A nail maker 1529
- Fig 25 - A Shoemaker 1531
>From the works published in 1568
- The Pilgrims
- The Lawyer (person approaching)
- The papermaker (the apprentice)
- The Goldsmith (front guy)
- The Huntsman
- The Farmer (sitting down)
- The Brushmaker
- The Grinder (standing)
- The Ropemaker (standing)
- The Fisherman
- The Wiredrawer (standing)

Caroline wrote:
>I would not call a woman's bodice with sleeves built-in sleeves but separate skirts a T-tunic, and unless the sleeves have the characteristic folds you get with a T-tunic, I would assume the sleeves seams were there in the original but obscured in the picture.

Women's bodices with those characteristic "t-tunic" folds at the armpits are seen over and over in Durer and other artists of the late 15th/early 16th c. I don't call them T-tunics, but they are clearly an evolution of that cut. Many of these gowns (1490-1520 Germany) do not even have separate skirts, but have gores set in at the front, sides and backs, The gores are set high in the front and cartridge pleated from breast to waist. The fitting about the bustline is often done with strings which often tie above and below the breast. In this period, particularly in the etchings and drypoints, every seam is quite evident, and sometimes the stitching too.
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Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 20:57:08 -1000
From: "P. M. Ostwald"
Subject: French 16th C.

Some time ago I asked for help looking for 16th century french costumes. Armed with the suggestions from the list, I found the following references. (I didn't get hold of all the suggested refs. I'm still looking for some)

The Valois Tapestries, F. A. Yates, (Routledge & Kegan Paul, London, 1975)
Shows both full shots and details of the Valois tapestries plus a series of small reproductions of 16th C. costume woodcuts by De Bruyn and Lucas de Heere for comparison. The costume pictures in the tapestries themselves are clear images. It is suggested that portraits were copied of the French royalty for the larger images, but the clothes were taken from costume portraits (or directly from clothes) by an artist who was particularly interested the popular costume manuals of the day. Detailing on these larger figures is good, down to the buttons on Catherine de Medici's bodice. Unfortunately, all the pictures are in black and white.(thanks Etienette, for pointing out this book!)

Jean Clouet, P. Mellen, (Phaidon, London, 1971). A collection of the court artist Jean Clouet's sketches and portraits. Clouet was artist for Francious 1st court, and died in 1541. His son Francois Clouet also painted court portraits until his death in 1572. The book is full of lots of
gorgeous chalk sketches reminiscent of Holbein. Alas, head and shoulders almost exclusively, and not much costume detail except for hats and french hoods. Still, a good collection of images of 1530-1540 noble headwear. Mostly B&W images, plus a few from son Francois Clouet, that look very promising, costumewise.

Prince of the Renaissance (the life of Francois I) D. Seward, (Constable, London, 1973). There are a number of learned texts on Francois, but most without images. This book is full of pictures, and contains a number of portraits of Francois, his family and his mistresses. Most of the Diane de Portiers images are nude portraits (not very useful for costuming!) but the rest are good. Mostly in colour.

Catherine de' Medici, H. R. Williamson (Michael Joseph, London, 1973).
Another image heavy life of Queen Catherine book. Contains (among other images) portraits of the royal family, plus several colour pictures of the Valois tapestries. A useful collection of costume portraits, mostly upper torso only, but many in colour.
Hope this information is of interest. Thanks for everyones help.

Tricia
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Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 21:53:34 -1000
From: "I. Marc Carlson"
Subject: Re: 13th Century Cut/T-Tunics

I've been reading this set of threads with some interest. While I certainly have not done the research on the illustrations as other people here, and I realize the problems that can occur when using a single item as a "standard", but I am currently sitting with a schematic of the Bocksten Man's tunic (in Nockert, Margareta. Bockstenmannen och hans drakt) and it clearly illustrates a single piece torso, with separate sleeves, attached at the shoulder, and seams at the bottom. There are gores inserted front, back and at the sides, as well as inserts in the underarms. There is not a speck of trim or any other decoration (unless you count the holes from where the body was pinned to the ground after he was killed). The clothes are estimated to be anywhere from 1320-1360. The first person to study the remains, Dr. Albert Sadklef, suggested that he may have been a royal representative who dissapeared about 1360.

For what it's worth, the main torso piece of the tunic only shows one selvage and is about 55 cm wide (or about 23 inches). The cloak, however, is clearly pieced together from a length of cloth that is 380 cm x 60 cm (13+ feet x 25 inches).
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Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:35:20 -1000
From: Eric Praetzel
Subject: Re: H-COSTUME archives?

> My thanks to Julie for the pointers towards the archives. Now, anyone know
> where they've put all of the old h-costume stuff? I've been on this list
I have not seen any such posting yet!
The archives for 93, 94, 95, 96 are on my account accessable in two ways.
The files are zip compressed sorted by year.

You can get them by anonymous ftp from
ece.uwaterloo.ca in pub/jpeg/hcostume (or h-costume??)

Or if you worm your way thru my web pages
http://ece.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel

if you actually go to ~praetzel/hobby about half way down it will have a pointer to the anon. ftp. area and clicking on that should bring your web browser up into ftp protocal ie clicking and draging a file or whatever; will download it.

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