Chelle
it feels good to get a life-sized post from ya!
Like bursting out of a mis-fitting corset.

Sara
we've only unsubbed the 'same' person - once for repeatedly breaking our rule, and the second time for the same thing.
Or was it once for being a complete d*ck, and then for being the same person as before, and still being a complete d*ck. Quack.

Jason
Am I completely alone or is there anyone else out there that isn't counting the days until the new film is released?
There's a new film? Is he referring to "Notting Hill", "Ten Things I Hate About You", or "Brem X Jones: The Spy Who Shagged Me"? There aren't any other big movies out over the summer, are there?

Actually, didn't Brem used to wear a long overjacket that might be a trenchcoat? Answers on a postcard from kenickie.com

or see a future post

Related problem: you don't know whether the counterfeit coin is lighter or heavier. How many weighings this time?

Nieske reads consumer computer press
they all said outlook express was so cool and so nice and "few people will wish more than outlook express."
Don't believe all you read in the press. If you want a mail client alone, choose Pegasus. If you want a news client alone, try ZDNet's freeware library. If you must have a combined client, consider Netscrape.

Kati
Has anyone got the Monopoly Star Wars edition? Is it good?
No, but I do have the Birmingham edition. It's Monopoly, with Birmingham names (: and advertising ):

Sara on abortions
However, in England, you CAN get it on the NHS, which I think is great.
You can, but not in all areas. There are places where there just aren't the trained staff to make the process viable on the service, so private medicine is the only option. That tends to be rural and semi-rural areas.

they weren't. so no call.

Angela
(it seems to me like a possible good idea if one could check a little box on one's tax statement re this issue: "Check a) if you wish to donate X amount of dollars to the welfare abortion fund")
It doesn't bother me if my tax pound supports abortion. It does bother me that it supports the wastrels in the EU. It bothers one of my friends that they're supporting tax cuts for the rich. And it bothers someone else that they're paying for the Millennium Dome (actually, that bothers everyone I know, but that's a whole other debate). It would be impractical for everyone to hypothicate their taxes in this manner. I'm not convinced that it would be totally undesirable, but it would require such a level of administration that it would add to the tax bill anyway.

Ulrike
Milka you get not only chocolate, but also mousse, eggs, nougat, white chocolate and more...their sign is a lilac cow
A cow that enlivens many Alpine skiing races by popping up from out of the crowd into the television monitor. And it looks better than most of the competitors...

(Do I get some free product for this?)

Ha! One day's TV is for amateurs! This is a whole week's schedule. Stripped and stranded: see how... Commas split half hours, slashes denote mid-year replacements.

Mon: 7: Jeopardy (with Steve Jones), Sabrina Teen Witch 8: Buffy 9: Friends, Panorama (current affairs show) 10: Wildlife strand, Top Of The Pops 2 (classic hits and new music - more Thu)

Tue: 7: Countdown (champ of champs? celebs?), Muppet Show. 8: Grange Hill (BBC school drama), Brookside (dreary Mersey drama). 9: Futurama, Sports Week. 10: Cold War / historical documentary

Wed: 7: Name That Tune, *This Slot Has 24 Minutes (like Canada's 22 Minutes, only British). 8: Star Turk / X Fools 9: *The Best of Rosie (coz Ms O'Donnell airs 5pm), Tonight (more current affairs). 10: Inside Story / docusoap, *Science World.

[Regular Wed programming will be pre-empted for European Cup football 7:30 - 10 for 17 weeks of year; shows marked with * would survive.]

Thu: 7: Win Jeremy Beadle's Money (adapt of Ben Stein), Top of the Pops 8: Party of Five / Charmed. 9: It's Like You Know, Crimewatch / public service. 10: University Challenge (Yeeeeeees) / The Year In Question (quiz on events of one year), Roseanne

Fri: 7: It's A Knockout 8: Coronation Street (dreary northern drama), Family Affairs (dreary southern drama) 9: Father Ted / UK comedy, Seinfeld / Sanders 10: Have I Got News / topical comedy, South Park

Sat: 7: Crystal Maze / Fort Boyard / Treasure Hunt 8: Morse/ Frost / big budget drama / Herc / Xena 10: Sports Parade (footy, cricket, rugby, other events...)

Sun: 7: Wanted / Interceptor 8: MSCL / Dawsons Creek 9: Simpsons, Who Wants to be a Millionaire (big budget quiz) 10: Travel show, Bring Me The Head Of Light Entertainment / Never Mind Buzzcocks (comedy quiz)

the birmingham six were a group of irish people falsely imprisoned for a bombing in the 1970s. it might be better not to call a news show after them.

What network do you think has the best shows?
Overall, [4]. Just ahead of T W O.

What night of the week do you most look forward to for tv watching?
Wednesday: Buffy, NBA, Powerpuffs.

Brendan
Do you think most men are homophobic?
Talk Radio's Tommy Boyd used to start his shows by coming from a strange position that he may or may not have believed, and arguing it convincingly. One of the most effective was that the vast majority of men suppress homosexual desires. One conclusion of that debate was that those who do tend to be homophobic.

Spookily, Nieske pre-empted this one yesterday...

A Song For Eurosong 11/23: The Netherlands

"One Good Reason" is sung by Marlayne, written by Tjeerd Van Zanen and Alan Michael. It starts out as a rolling country number, and sounds a lot like Shania Twain or Sheryl Crow. The verse is strong, the chorus is instantly, insanely catchy; both factors that point to a very strong showing. The ending is a wimpy fade-out, rather than a bang, and that slightly spoils the song. Key change at 1:55, reversed at 2:15.

This will be big. Quite possibly repeating last year's fourth place, or better. Remember, last time Israel held the contest, the Dutch entry came second.

Janet
I met Craig Charles!
Oh my! The only person I know who can speak 34 phrases on the subject of being tired in 30 seconds

Chelle
if you were a girl and you weren't in a club or organization, you just couldn't be homecoming queen.
Hang on one cotton-pickin' minute; isn't this sex discrimination? Why should the homecoming queen have to be a lass?

or view the website

Johnathan, it's a pain, but one door closes, another opens.

Elizabeth
Is Sharon supposed to be popular, or just very school-spirity?
People misread her a little and think she's being deliberately popular, when she's doing what she genuinely enjoys and nothing more. She doesn't aim to be Miss Wellknown, but just is.

Someone
Sometimes I have asked guys whether or not another guy is good looking, and they say they can't tell if a guy is good looking or not. Is this true, or do they just say that so people don't think they are homosexual?
It's a big con. Of course they know if the other guy is good looking. As I mentioned earlier, most of them have homosexual leanings to which they won't admit. Gofig.

Brendan
People believe that stuff?
"That stuff" being BudFrogs, BugsLife, GutstosayJesus, GoodTimes, $1000fromGates, DisneyWorld or any other hoax.

delta 171 is a dutch long wave station that may or may not launch during 99; the isle of man awarded a license in march to broadcast in late 2000.

Laurel
i slammed my fingers in a door at work and broke two.

Ow. Ow ow ow ow ow. Hope things get better soon.

BHX: sunny & 20 * We'll call it ... Salmonella!
Exclusive to mail-list: weaver posts. See the whole story.
Wearing sunblock is a good idea. This is not:

telequote: from dilbert
musiquote: from everybody's free to wear sunscreen

Shannon
it would be nice to travel without the headache of a passport
Yes, it would. Not having to protest to a p***ed off guard who so wants a coffee that, yes, that is a picture of me, and, yes, a blue British passport is perfectly valid, just look at the expiry date. It would be bad enough if I had this trouble in a way-out, isolated, foreign part, but to encounter this at Heathrow is enough to make me want to boycott the place forever. Now, Air Canada, what about direct MAN-YYT flights?

sadly not ):

Sara
why does everyone rip on popular people so much? I was popular, and I was a cheerleader.
Are the two statements linked? Would you have been popular if you weren't a cheerer?

the very thing that made me popular was that I was nice to everyone.
D'oh! Read the next line, weaver.

My experience: I was the kind of student that everyone thought they knew, without really knowing me. One of the more bookish, and not a sporty type at all. It gives a certain stereotype. Add to that the way that I seem to just turn heads my way (it's nothing deliberate, it just, like, happens) and people think they know me inside out. It gave me high name-recognition, and a rep for being dependable, but added barriers to forming close friendships.

Kris
No matter how much I don't like someone I never would even think to 'kill' them. I think stopping this kind of talk before it even gets started might be one step to healing what we've messed up with our youth.
In which case I look forward to your mails asking President Clintern to stop sending the "wrong" messages to the youth of America. If anyone's saying that it's acceptable to resort to violence, that's the person.

On the other hand, if all other means of resolution have been exhausted, and you're prepared to have that death on your conscience for the rest of eternity, then there can be no other route out.

Dr Demeter
when did we stop "checking" those impulses? Why do things like this continue to happen? How is it that we've stopped teaching our children (and/or ourselves and/or eachother) about the necessity of checking those impulses?

libya apr 86; gulf wars jan 91, dec 98; panama dec 89; somalia nov 92; haiti sep 94 (aborted); serbs during 94, 95 and apr 99.

This ain't a complete answer: there are many things individuals can do that are far more effective than the President or the PM. But, when the parents fail (as seems to be the case in Colorado), there's a worse fallback position. Let's make no bones about it: the ease with which guns are available was a big factor in this. If someone flipped in the UK, they'd only be able to go home and find a knife. Now, that's nasty enough, don't get me wrong, but it wouldn't kill a dozen people.

Angela
if, when one finds something of that ilk, there is someplace that one can report them too? Does anyone know?
1) The hosting ISP. They (should) keep phone logs and IP logs to show the number from which the site was updated. At the very least, you can expect to have the site pulled.

2) The police. The Americanization of the net cuts both ways. It's not unreasonable to assume the perpetrators are from the US, and the local cops would know someone who knows the way to get 'em. If you get no joy, escalate up the chain. Stuff protocol; if people are being harmed, you have a right to have it stopped.

Nieske
I'M BACK
Welcome back.

Hotmail is being such a pain lately
I genuinely can't say I've noticed. It was far worse at the start of last year.

Hotmail's cookies. You're offered four when first logging on, but only need to take the last of them. What the other three do, I don't know. But they're staying away from my machine.

to download webwasher

A SONG FOR EUROSONG [10/23] FRANCE

The French entry is "Je Veux Donner Ma Voix" - "I want to give my voice". It is sung by Nayah, a solo female. She's got a great pair of lungs, and isn't afraid to use them, belting out a fully respectable number. It sort-of reminds me of the 97 winner, "Love Shine a Light", especially the way it runs out of lyrics and has a forced key change at 2:14. And the chanting going on behind her after that point. This one will fly, especially if she can avoid doing a Mariah on the last note.

Wombat-chops
This crazy lady who has roped me into organising a seminar with a Y2K.
As in, why the year 2000 will be the last of the 20th century, and all the best millennium celebrations that year will have an Icelandic feel?

Do you like french fries/chips?
In moderation, as with everything.

Do you dip them in anything?
Sometimes. Sometimes I don't. When I do, it's usually brown sauce, occasionally tomato ketchup with lashings of vinegar.

What do you call them?
Chips, unless they're from McDougals/BK/Harveys, in which case they're fries.

Describe the MSCL episode 'Father Figures' using the letters

"Suddenly, my breasts came between us"

Huge first fear

Maybe one matures as one gets older

If age furthers

Sharon tries to open to Angela

H'I suffer great

Jordan takes Angela driving (ok, wrong episode, but...)

Sure gear fifth

chelle
you're not rid of me
is quoting P J Harvey. What's my prize? No, put that wet kipper away.

Ulrike
today i was very innocently cycling down the mall in Leipzig when a police officer told me to stop and said that they were making a traffic control and it was forbidden to cycle down the mall for their should only be walkers. well, i had to pay 10 DM.
Can you appeal against this without having to pay the police's cost if you lose? If so, go do it. They'll have to fork out a lot more than 10DM (about GBP3.30, $9) to process your appeal.

keyoneohthree
the beatles of the 90's are Oasis
Surely the Beatles of the 90s are (er) the Beatles. Oasis just have the most wonderful press agents, and somehow built up an aura of invincibility - so much so that they were never out of the British music press during 96, despite releasing nothing. The inevitable downfall with the next album was even sweeter for those of us who saw through them from the start.

REM (Losing My Religion, Everybody Hurts, Drive, the hits go on and on)
Well, no they don't. Two big albums (Time, Automatic), one middling (Monster, which was $10 in Sam's on Yonge last month), and two small (New HiFi, Up). They've kinda slipped into the back seat for the past half decade, and don't seem to have inspired anything as much as other entries.

Pearl Jam (self explanetory)
How much was PJ, how much was Nirvana? I think only one can make the list; I'd name Nirvana, but your arguments are very cogent.

Sean Combs (i don't really want to think about this one....he isn't a group, but god he was/is popular)
Naah. Influential rappers? De la Soul, Turbo B, 2Pac, Coolio. Puffy just made the money.

Marrilyn Manson (the band, not the individual, is one of the last true "rock stars" out there, with BIG concert productions and HUGE ego of lead singer)
Two words. Robbie Williams. It's a little too soon to say if MM make a defining mark, and it probably won't be into the next decade.

If you pin me down to one act, it's NKOTB. Not for what they did, but what they inspired. There's a direct route through Take That and the Spice Girls to 98 Degrees, the Backstreets and spin-off concepts such as Hanson and the Moffats.

i also think U2 had too big a failure with Pop to come back from it anytime soon.....
Interesting. I found it a lot like everything since "Achtung Baby!", with the exception of "Discotheque" - a total red herring.

their best stuff is thier 80's and early 90's stuff
We'll see more by comparing the second Greatest Hits package (late this year) with the first.

To return to the topic of Baz Luhrmann's "Sunscreen" tune. It's been released to UK radio, with one slight change - the class of 97 becomes the class of 99 - and removing Quindon's screeching just before the speaker goes on about enjoying one's parents. It's now seven weeks since the first UK play, on Paul Gambicini's American Hits show - he's played the track an unprecedented three times. Four weeks since Chris Moyles introduced the track to Radio 1, and a week since Birmingham's BRMB caught up. The latter two are (falsely) claiming to have been first.

Brendan
I've got so much to catch up on cos the computer at work has crashed and I'm so busy and it's 5:45am dammitt!
Not the Computer Controlling The Output going belly-up, please! That would mean having to play discs by hand. At 107.7 The Wolf, that's the Programme Controller's job (hi, Tim).

Tori Amos only had ONE hit song on this side of the Atlantic, and that was Cornflake Girl.
Nay! Top 10s for "Pretty Good Year", 20s for "Crucify", "Spark" "Hey Jupiter" and "Caught a Lite Sneeze", and a half-dozen other top 40 tracks. That's not to mention Armand van Helden's "Professional Widow", which made a week at #1.

OK, these are UK chart positions, but I don't think the difference across the Irish Sea is all that great.

Can anyone reccomend a good cd to start me off as a Tori fan?!
Go for the cheap option: "Little Earthquakes" is in a lot of sales at the mo. You may be able to find a copy of "Choirgirl Hotel" as well - that may be the most accessible album. "Under the Pink" is lush orchestration, and I've never quite got the hang of "Boys for Pele" for which you'll have two versions, with and without Van Helden's mix.

Wombat
so I got Australia and Emily's got North America, who wants the rest?
Given that everyone knows Newfies rule the world, anyway, but need a few friends on hand...

they're going to boring places, like detroit ):

Angela
Ya'll know that I'm a Christian. I am also pro choice. That may sound hypocritical.
Not in the slightest. The only hypocritical statings from a Christian are those that fail to love other people as they love themselves.

~Laura. Hugs are offered. The sort of male looking for One Thing Only is not worth worrying about. Sadly, their large numbers do tend to spoil the pitch for the rest of us.

Thanks to everyone involved in creating this 10K list post. Especially Duck Dodgers in the 24th-and-a-halfth Century!

Brum: sunny & 17 * Stretch
weaver posts are exclusive to mail-list. see the whole picture

Codsall: bright & 14 * wvrposts are exclusive to mail-list
ah really hate ha, ill think of a reason latah

musiquote: i'll think of a reason later, leann womack

Cory
I asked a boy out on a date today. :) It was a first.
Way! How'd it go? The date that is...

A picnic fan (Yogi Bear! Out of retirement!)
I know that someone out there takes all this list changing stuff very seriously buy since i have just joined the maillist i am almost clueless as to the severity of Laura's "crimes".
Crimes? None. Things she could have handled differently? Aplenty. But we all have things to change. Just take the last seven words of that sentence there...

anyways i just thought that Angela'a sarcasm was excellent
Oh! It was sarcasm! I mistook it for something entirely different. It never really stood up to be wholesome, cogent commentary, but then it was never claimed to be that.

I am a great fan of good wholesome sarcasm.
Welcome aboard.

Mae
I got the job!!!!
Yay! Brilliant, innit.

On "Friends". It's a slice of another planet, one that I'll only ever get to see through the porthole of glass - but then, so will the rest of the world. With the exception of Rachel, who annoys the heck out of me and has done since the middle of season 3, I kinda appreciate all the cast. As for a favourite episode: "The One After the Superbowl" from '96 is great when shown in one part, but is totally ruined in syndication (Listening, CTV?) Thanksgiving with Chandler's box was fab. Downers: the last half of season 3 was totally forgettable, and the stereotypical portrayal of the English annoyed. Some of the early season 5 ones are excellent, but I'll say no more out of respect for those who are waiting for [4].

Brooks enquires about videos of "Friends". If you're up for PAL-NTSC conversion, drop me a line; SKY have started ordered re-runs recently.

Numbers committed to memory. Now, remember, I'm a math graduate, with a flair for numbers, so...

+ Bank pin number
+ Credit card pin number
+ DoB for self, sister, parents, and inlaws.
+ Security code for work's outside door
+ Ditto for server room
+ Ditto for Jarvis House Hotel, Toronto.
+ Internal IP address range for work.
+ Approximate Can$/GBP exchange rate (2.45)
+ National Insurance number.
+ Peak chart positions for last nine Spice Girls singles (1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1).
+ Ditto for Take That (1-1-1-1-3-1-1-1-1).
+ BT chargecard number.
+ Home phone number.
+ Ditto for inlaws.
+ And their other line.
+ BBC Five Live's frequencies and phone number (0500 909 693)
+ Approx times of trains from Wolverhampton to Codsall.

(Zat's enough of ze numbers. Ha ha ha ha ha - The Count)

Part two of weaver.post follows this commercial break.

A Song for Eurosong [8/23]

The first song to be performed on May 29 will be "Strasdas", performed by Aiste. You may recall Norway's winner in 1995, and Ireland's the following year, were both near instrumentals with a lilting female vocal adding the song part. For their return, Lithuania has tried a similar tactic; the only problem is that the vocalist is more Dolores Cranberry Banshee than Enya Murmur. It'll get points, which is more than their 1994 entry did, but it's not going to feature in the reckoning at the end of the night. And no key changes, either.

Next time: Denmark.

Before the break I mentioned in passing the different analogue systems used around the world. This isn't a problem in the bright new age of terrestrial digital. The whole of Europe - and it's looking like the entire world - will standardise on the one basic encoding method, though encryption for pay-tv will vary. This means that I'll be able to take my 20th Century digitv box to France or the US and watch free-to-air programmes there. OK, there's nothing actually being broadcast, but It Can Be Done. Alas, some fly-by-night operators are using proprietary standards but who wanted to watch Murdochsoftv anyway?

Paulo, thanks for your thoughts.
some people have said that one of the reasons why they prefer FoMSCL is because there are no "bad vibes" among listies... The reason for the tensions between listies that we've observed lately, IMO, is because some of the people who used to form the core of the list are not friends between them anymore. If mail-list closes, all those people will come to FoMSCL, and in that case, will the tensions reappear?
I think it's fair to say that they will. And it's completely unreasonable to expect people to walk on eggshells for the next forever in order to stop a few people from feeling bad vibes. The tension will grow until it bursts out in a real mess.

people whom I'd definitely like to see in FoMSCL, and yet cannot stand each other. How do we deal with that situation?
It's a good question. A very good question. Number 6 in my post last Sunday, IIRC.

Whether they like it or not, the lead will come from the admin(s). In spite of claim to the contrary, I've never found the mail-list admins, nor byron before them, to be anything other than even-handed. Laura would have a big act to follow.

The tensions that have poisoned the list lately were not caused by who ran it, but rather by personal situations that are quite hard to solve, and moving from one list to another won't automagically solve that.
Too right. It is a fact that an element at FM has publicly threatened to leave were I to join that list. [The sort that doesn't like defining FM's place merely because I'm the one putting the topic into discussion.] Now, I have no intention of forcing that issue, so I'm leaving well alone. But were mail-list to close, the compromise - my not joining FM - would be unavailable, and there would be (at best) bad feeling and (at worst) physical bloodshed. (Don't anyone say there wouldn't. Don't dare.)

It's true that a united list would hurt me more than it would soothe. It's equally true that I'm happy to respect other people (even though it may not always look like it) so long as they respect me back. And, sadly, there are cases where that just doesn't happen.

Laura
these are only mailing lists people...maybe we are blowing things way the hell out of proportion.
I think I'll be the judge of my battles, thank you.

Mrs Ball
I was really hoping to diffuse the whole ridiculous (because the points raised were so untrue)
Are you calling me a liar? Coz that's what it sounds like from here. You may have believed the points raised to be bizarre, petty or individualistic. Clearly, I saw (and still see) them as valid points, questions that would clear the air and allow Laura to set the record straight. To remove confusion - mine and other people's.

[I] am pretty stunned that it was seen as "malicious".
That's really for neither of us to judge. If someone wants to see this passage as malicious, or a personal attack, that's their perogative.

However, as I often say, if you can't stand the steam from the lobster pot, stay the f*** out of the kitchen.
Can anyone play Quote-a-cliche? "They who live by the sword shall die by the sword."

that would be the st john's leafs, not the toronto side of a similar name

Well do I remember my presentation about my final year project. Twenty minute presentation, distilling a 70-page paper into five or so overheads. Not my strongest half hour. I chose to lecture a week before exams, rather than a month later and a week after, just to get the thing out of the way.

And finally, let me offer my thanks to Sara for her work as this list's admin for the past year. A job well done never seems to attract as many thanks as it deserves. My best wishes to Chelle as the new admin type person.

Brum: sunny & 14 * 298 times. You kept count?
weaver posts are a mail-list exclusive. all rights reserved

telequote: from friends with the couch

A Song for Eurosong 6/23: Turkey.

Carelessly omitted from last time's post, the seventh entry up is "Don Artik", (Come Back) perfomed by Tuba Onal. It begins with a wonderful ethnic beat, designed to conjure up sun, sea, sand and other Mediterranean delights. While the female vocalist is a bit of a growler, the song continues to sound like a fortnight in the sun. The Turks surprised everyone by coming in third two years back with a song not unlike this one: history may well repeat itself with this record. Heck, even Cyprus might give them a vote. But just one. No key changes, with the possible exception of the very last note.

Joey
And so ended the wedding from hell.
It's over. It sounded like a right one to avoid. Big Hugs are offered. And it's over.

Mae
I just got the special edition of the Corrs' album "Talk on Corners"...and I just have to say....IT'S FANTASTIC
Ah, go on. Why is it so fantasmagorical? And (forgive a higorant question) what makes it a Special Edition?

Sara
Ross actually started reading his mail yesterday, as you guys may have noticed, since he actually posted
He did? Must have been a coded post, with a letter hidden in every other posting...

I wonder if its something with tesco.net
Seriously, though. IIRC, that's on the same backbone as free-online, which is not the most stable of providers. Especially for mail. They're slow, and at least two batches of my mail have spooled off into the ether. It may be the same for tesco.

lives are only interesting if they are soap opera like
If I ever start to get a life like "Eastenders" (shurley lose a life like "Eastenders" - pedantic ed) you're welcome to fall to sleep.

OK, OK, I said I'd put this to bed, but as my motives have been impugned...
I can't say if Iain was attacking you or not, I wo'nt speak for him. but I believe that he was just trying to get information,
On the head. Too right.

and I personally did not see any attacking going on.
In retrospect, there are things that I'd have phrased slightly differently. But if I wanted to really attack, you would have been in no doubt.

All these previews, and much more, from eurosong.net

A Song for Eurosong 7/23: Norway.

Winners in 1995, two strong entries in the three years since, (and one nul points), the dark horses return with a track called "Living My Life Without You", performed by the composer, Van Eijk. If last year's entry recalled Boyzone, this year's is the best Backstreet Boys track that they'll never record. There's a hook large enough to catch a very large fish, and it seems to be from "Quit Playing Games With My Heart" - the same staccato disco rhythm is evident. Again, no key changes, but finishing with a bang.

Next: the one we missed at the start, Lithuania.

Brum: sunny & 11 * shut the door, don't say a word
weaverposts are a mail-list exclusive, copyright mcmxlix

musiquote: every morning, sugar ray

As promised, a response to Laura's replies to my questions from Sunday, and other comments that have been made.

This process has already cleared up a prime point of misunderstanding: Laura's intention was deliberately not to usurp or replace any other list. I am quite happy to accept her word on this, and thank her for the clarification.

While Laura's responses have raised a number of other questions, and left others unanswered, I see no reason to bother everyone with the majority of them. One question, though, does continue to bother me. And it's addressed to everyone, not just Laura.

Whether we like it or not, it's a fact that the number of posts on mail-list has decreased in recent days. It's also clear that a number of people - not exclusively those who weren't recently on mail-list - are treating friendsof... as a substitute for mail-list.

Given the wide-ranging brief, and implicit declaration that nothing is off topic on either list, is there any way to revive mail-list? Or are we going to revert to the days when there were two claimants to be the netcom list's successor, with all the inconvenience that created?

Leaving aside personal feelings, it's a hassle to check two lists, compose responses to two lists, and forget who posted what to which. Eventually, everyone has to choose a side.

Ultimately, the question is: how can both lists best co-exist?

I started this as a serious discussion of something that genuinely interests me. For that reason, I'm not going to touch posts from Ball or Roman, as I don't see their posts as being *serious* responses. There's nothing wrong with frivolity, but I'd rather tackle the serious issues first.

Looking forward to all your responses...

Brum: rainy & 11 * double Eurosong tomorrow

Betsy
I found out that I do have a Prom dress in my house that's never been worn. It's long and it's lilac purple and I would honestly wear it.
Hey, lilac long dresses, with flat shoes and decently long gloves are tres suave. Sounds, like, wonderful.

I don't know if we're dating or whatever,
You have invited each other on dates, and accepted. Therefore, you two are dating. Whether you're an item or not is another question.

I do know that I want to invest all of my time and energy into him and no one else.
Sounds like you want it to be. Good luck and best wishes.

yes, from the duck season / wabbit season classic

Sara
yu can't wear jeans over here in clubs. dance clubs that is.
Evidently you're going to far too trendy clubs, where the important thing is to be seen, not to enjoy yourself. Never quite got the hang of that concept myself, but as Wolverhampton has no other sort of club...

I got Ross to dance!! like ALL night with me!
Amazing scenes at breakfast...

under 10 year olds should know the difference between right and wrong though. they should know it from an early age as well.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with this argument; however, it appears that many 8 or 9 year olds do know that difference, and use the under 10 rule to their advantage. Which suggests that the absolute ban should be abolished. And - oh look - there's a bill passed but not yet implemented. Under 10s will have the same treatment as under 14s - the prosecution will have to prove they know the difference.

at home, a lot of tv shows use CET to refer to our time.
Tsk tsk. I know the Canadian networks use CT, CST or CDT, but I have no idea what CET might stand for? CEntral Time? Madness.

Correcting the correction to the correction
according to her (and what she told me once) she said that she got on after I did. and i got on in November
Then pray explain how come I got a mail posted in September. Answers on a postcard etc.

Joey
So that's how the whole thing went down. And i feel so horribly guilt about it I can't breathe.
[hugs] You'll recover; it seems that you always would.

Sasha
I'm going to be a bridesmaid!!!
Hurrah!

so unusual that yours truly considered it for some while

Mae, deep breath, good luck. Interviews are scary. Group things are a pain, and don't test anything that will be good in the job.

Davina
I am so happy that we are friends again!!
Hurrah!

Mae, quoting me
I have no doubt that there was truth in what she says.
Um, we have no arms, legs, eyes, and teeth? We have no sewage system, and it smells of cockroaches?
This smells of putting words into mouths. The article quote is

"People with, like, no arms, no legs, no eyes, no teeth."

That there are parts of the city without a working sewage system. Are there such places? If there are regular floods, I'd suggest that would be the case.

Trying to silence one's critics is not going to work. It might deceive some of the people, but they'll find out, and it will come back to haunt.

wishes the ban would be lifted so we can get MSCL reruns again.
What good is this ban doing anyway? Sure, Danes put a lot of noses out of joint. She's entitled to do that; equally, people are entitled to feel annoyed about that. But to carry on a vendetta of this kind shows weakness and a reluctance to accept legitimate criticism.

Lucas
My best friend will be baptized as a mormon on the 25th of this month, and I need to get him a gift.
For my 18th, my friends were at a loss for something to get me. They settled on an tankard, engraved to mark the occasion. That might be something to consider, or adapt.

Codsall: cloudy & 9 * beneath the pale moon rising

musiquote: kiss me, sixpence none the richer

As many people know, traffic on the so-called+at+mail-list+dit+com has nosedived over the past couple of weeks. It appears that much of it has been diverted to friendsofmscl+at+onelist+dit+com, administered by Laura Krantz.

This post poses a number of questions to the administrator; questions that, I feel, deserve to be answered. Nothing here is intended as a personal attack on anyone.

This is a list that seemed to appear out of thin air, with no public discussion relating to its founding. What's more, it seems to duplicate existing lists without attempting to cover any new ground. Invitations were issued on a basis of who Laura's friends were, not who made quality posts to any other list.

1) Why have you created friendsofmscl+at+onelist+dit+com?

2) Why should we use this list in preference to any other on a similar topic?

3) Many long-standing posters were not informed of this development, and had to find out by other means. Why did you let this happen? Why, in particular, did you not post to other lists?

During the long-running feud involving A. Gomez, Laura was amongst the first to cry against "splitting the list". She left the list on more than one occasion, implying that she could not cope with the fighting.

4) Your action, in starting a rival list, has had the exact effect you've come out against in the past. Did you intend this to happen?

5) Now that it has happened, how do you propose to rectify it; or do you see that there is nothing you can do?

This list has been struck by strong passions in the past, with bad feeling and blood spilt on more than one occasion. To keep this kind of mess to a minimum, strong leaders are required; leaders that know when to act and when to keep their powder dry.

6) Why should we trust you to be just such a strong leader?

7) Why have you set the option to approve all subscribers?

8) How do you deal with someone expressing unpopular opinions that are not intrinsicly damaging?

I've sent this message to Laura directly, and to mail-list. I'd be obliged if someone would forward it in its entirity to onelist+dit+com. Any response I receive from Laura, or anyone speaking on her behalf, will be treated as a public comment from her, and forwarded to all interested parties on that basis.

Cristina, welcome on deck.
Hey there! What's up?
The sky, the clouds, and a few flying pigs. But not for much longer, I expect.

Why do you fuss over Claire Danes birthday?
Um, because this is the so-called list, given over to discussion of "My So-Called Life", starring said acting type.

I mean, she's so rude.
You've met her? All right for some...

I heard she was in the Philippines lambasting their people...
Take it with a pinch of salt. A big one. She made disparaging and tactless comments about Manila, but nothing that didn't have at least some basis in fact. But, if local politicians think they can get some mileage out of misquoting famous people, they will.

Let's not forget, these politicians are the people responsible for the squalid conditions Danes mentioned; they're responsible for the people they're failing. And they're feeling guilty about this - it hurts their chances of re-election and the cushy life they like. Rather than address the genuine problem, however, the politicos choose to shoot the messenger.

of course she was banned.
Well, FWIW, I've banned those same politicans from appearing in my posts. It's all very childish, and I know who would prefer the extra publicity...

Laura
The things she said about the country were said out of naivety and ignorance...and probably the product of her living a very posh life.
Mmm, posh, sheltered, posh, sheltered. What's the difference (:

to make a comment here would be unfair.

brixton, glasgow are two of the poorest areas of the uk

Joey
Why would a guy, who lives 20-30 minutes away from you, drive by your house and not stop?
En route to somewhere else, perhaps? In this case, though, he appears to be very, painfully, shy. So much so that he doesn't know how to handle it. The "committment issues" you mention may be just another manifestation of this.

indigo books (proudly canadian)
chapters online (part-owned by wall st journal)

Kati
Has this list been really this quiet recently or am i missing messages.
I'd go for Option A.

Sara
Have you ever wondered if there is a person on the internet for every single birthday?
No, but a moment's thought shows that the chances of there being a day missing (other than Feb 29) are (1457/1461)^N where N is the number of people using the internet. [The figure for Feb 29 is (1460/1461), but that's moot coz we know Ulrike's birthday is then.]

A group of 100 people couldn't possibly cover the whole year, but we see there's a 76% chance of any individual date being missed. Expand the group to 365, and there's a 36.7% chance that a date is missed. But the internet is a little larger than that. An internet of 1000 people would leave just a 6.4% chance of any date being missed; one of 10,000 reduces the chance to 10^(-12). That's like picking one atom out of the whole solar system. Expand your survey to the whole internet and the chances of a birthday being missed are, to all intents and purposes, zero.

A little birdie (no names, no pack drill) says I've been mentioned on some other list with a similar (notional) topic to this one. No, I'm not a member of it. Yes, I have comments to make about the situation, but they will wait till tomorrow.

A Song for Eurosong 5/23

Song six is Slovenia's entry, "Se Tisoc Let", performed by Darja Svarjger. She's got a good pair of lungs on her, but this is a dull, dowdy, song; a slow ballad that even Mariah or Celine would wrinkle their nose at. There's a key change at 1:54, but the number of people who still care by that point may be nearly nil.

Codsall: showers & 8 * and good news for Mr Fayed's team...

sportgrab: fulham fc are up...

sherry, a very old timer...
Ohmygawd, it's Sherryofthetape! How are you, old bean?

Sara, on the Bulger case
Were there actually people that saw it happening and didn't do anything?
There were people who saw the kids dragging the screaming baby around. There were at least two who confronted the kids, and were re-assured / fobbed off / [whatever] by claims that they were all brothers, and that they weren't at school because of teacher training. No-one contacted the police.

where was the breach of their rights? they killed someone, didn't they?
It's a case of justice being done, and justice being seen to be done. The assumption in English law is that children under 10 cannot know the difference between right and wrong. It must be proven that those between 10 and 14 can make that distinction. Most legal beagles agree that the prosecution in this case didn't establish that point.

Furthermore, the two were tried in an adult court, open to the press. That breaks aspects of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, the European Human Rights Convention, and standard practice in English courts. In other cases, those under 18 may not be named, or have any details of the case published until the end of the trial. This is the area where the European Human Rights Court is expected to find against England.

CET is Central time?
CET is Central European Time. As used in Switzerland, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Norway. CET is one hour ahead of the UK.

CST is Central (American Continent) Standard Time, as used in parts of the USA and Canada. That's 6 hours behind the UK, and 7 hours behind CET.

who is Tony Benn?
Notorious left-winger in the Labour Party. In favour of leaving NATO, the EU and not dropping bombs on anyone. Came within a whisker of being elected Labour leader in 1981. Now he's more a representative of Old Labour, and MP for Sedgefield in Derbyshire. Whatever his political views, he's a great speech-maker, and a coup for any event that needs a slightly off-the-wall politican.

The Wixzard of Salliwoo
my stupid computer did it again. Yup, It crashed and wouldn't come back on, so we ended up having to reload all the stuff.
I'd better not threaten to come round and reprogramme it with a sledgehammer, otherwise it might take me up on the offer.

Top teachers. This time, Bill Clarke, my form tutor from years 9-12. We had a mutual interest in politics, and an earned respect for each other - all the more valuable after our rocky beginning. Mr Clarke never courted popularity, taking us for our end of year trip to ... the local magistrate's court! But he was always a just, honest man, who treated everyone with a lot of respect. His catchphrase was that he was trying to produce twenty-five "young ladies and gentlemen". I'd hope he succeeded somewhere.

Bill Clarke was best-known as Conservative party leader on Wolverhampton Council from 1984-94; he passed away two years ago this week.

Davina
the fact that he would just decide that he could just stop talking to me at all, really hurts me feelings.
Totally understandable. My take is that he really doesn't know how to handle this kind of situation, and prefers the Ostrich solution to confronting it head-on. Paulo has a point: if you still care for him, make a move.

he proceeded to tell me that it was stupid and I would never find someone if I act like that. I thought it was better to have standards!
Indeed it is. He has a different girl in every port? You're best off without that sort of raging sex maniac.

the only reason that even remotely bothered me was because I was already upset (he is also the one who fed me the info on why Scott was ignoring me).
Given his distinct lack of moral fibre, what's to say that he wasn't making that up in a one-track-mind kinda situation? I'd be tempted to discount his opinion on this situation.

Sara
sorry to correct this
Apologies for correcting the correction, but...

Ali got on the list after I did which was in November of 1995. or right before..one of the two.
IIRC, it was February 95.

but she wasn't on the list when MSCL was still going anyway.
ISTR she was. Why not mail and ask? (;

But this is a moot point, anyhow, given that the member for St John's East withdrew around Christmas 97.

Exam season is in full swing. My best wishes to all those sitting papers over the next couple of months.

Johnathan in A Play for WashingtonPlay
Yea because "Lonely Planet" (and me) are going to Regional competition,
Hurrah! A simple half production is far better than one chopped about with by some amateur.

and cheers to the cast of Diary, who even though they didn't win, worked hard and put on a great show.
It sounds like it. Well done, the lot of you.

In New York, Emily provides a brief update. Thanks, it's always good to hear from ya.

Now, Song for Eurosong is next, but first, Song from Hawaii. Keyoneohthree mentioned his song-writing talents. Yeah, I'll listen. And probably like (just wait for SFE parts 5 and 6!)

A Song For Eurosong [Part 4 of 23]

Song five will be the UK's entry, "Say it Again" by Precious. It's a breathless, fast-paced but mellow soul number, with a hook the size of London in the chorus. Soul has never yet won Eurosong, but this is reminscent of "Love Shine a Light" and Sweden's winner from 1991. Key change at 2:24 - after a speaky bit. This is the British song, and its predecessors have finished second in almost the contests, so 2nd place for this as well.

BHX: shwr & 7 * Last week's most played song: Cher's Believe. This: Natalie's Torn

A Song for Eurosong [Part 2 of 23]:

Lauren
I've been accepted to Pace University.
Hurrah!

What's your favorite breakfast food?
Raisin Splitz, the cereal; fried bread, beans, mushrooms and a lightly poached egg if someone else is washing up.

schmeichal, the danish national goalkeeper

reo speedwagon, rembrants and robbie williams, resp.

that's dave brubeck's instrumental, philip pope's spoof novelty track, and an aphex twin instrumental

canada: see bill c-55, cause of a near trade war with the united states

Paulo
I'd love to hear that Christopher Cross / Frances Rufelle duet again
As in Frances Rufelle, the rather wonderful musical star who (ack!) came 10th in Eurosong 1994? That's what she doing these days...

Betsy! Thank you!
is halifax the airport? no wait. no maybe. I don't know.
Halif*x is the capital city of Nova Scotia, and the self-proclaimed Most Important City In Atlantic Canada. As the hon. lady has just shown, this is not the case. Halif*x is, in fact, the stabling ground for Air Canada's flights from St John's to London.

Or is that the gap where your football coach's brain should be? Where the plane's stabled, that is...

Cory
I am... whoever I want to be. I'm more open, with myself and others, I'm sober, I hang out with people who love me... I'm not trying to be anyone but myself anymore.
Hurrah! And real big hugs, he said, wiping away a single tear.

A Song for Eurosong [Part 3 of 23]:

Next time: the British entry.

Codsall: sunny spells & 13 * What's French for "wooden spoon"?

sportquote: france finish bottom of 5 nations championship

eurosong.net
the european broadcasting union

A Song for Eurosong [#1 in a series of 23]

This year's Eurovision Song Contest takes place in Jerusalem on May 29. Between now and then, I'll be passing liner notes on all the competing songs. Lithuania will start off the contest, but I don't have their track to hand just yet. So the first is...

Belgium. "Like The Wind", performed by Vanessa Chinitor. A song about how life's always changing and how one shouldn't resist that too much. Reference to previous Eurosong: the instrumental track is a dead ringer for last year's Slovak entry. Key changes: two, at 2:03 (the instrumental) and 2:33. It'll get votes, Belgian entries always do, especially the ones sung by solo females, but I doubt it'll win.

Next time: Spain and Croatia.

Dr Demeter
I'm intrigued by your examination of the mixed messages about responsibility/immaturity. Any suggestions for how things could be better balanced?
Perhaps we might want to start by working out what it is we want to say, and then fashion laws to that, and that only.

The existing English situation is that females under 16 can't consent to males, but can to females; males under 18 can't consent to males. That's set to reduce to 16 later in the year, along with a new rule raising the age to 18 regardless of gender if there's a power relationship involved. The example used by NuLabor is a pupil-teacher.

It leaves a lot of power with the judiciary - what is a power relationship is added to many of the points Shobi made.

Surely much of this is the result of a number of factors including: societal myths about gender abilities/roles/responsibilities;
Myths are bad. Stereotypes are bad. The case is to be decided on the facts alone. This is an area where the facts may well be clear-cut.

incorporation of "discretion" in the legal system
Clearly, there needs to be some discretion to dismiss cases. Equally, though, I'm not sure what genuine public interest might be served by using this power. If there's the possibility of a conviction, it's the duty of the investigative authorities to collate and present that evidence. I'd rather see discretion used in the courts, but by judges who are accountable to the public.

Paulo side-steps a little
I'm thinking in particular in the case of the two kids that allegedly tortured and murdered a baby in England a few years ago
There's no "allegedly" needed: the proof that they did what they did is overwhelming.

I have the impression that, in the days following the murder, it would have been very hard for anyone to argue rationally that "they were only 10 years old, they can't be held responsible!!" without being lynched as another possible suspect of the crime.
It sounds a lot like Paulo was in Britain at the time. That was the exact attitude. No blame has ever attached to 20-odd people who saw the suspects and baby on their 3km walk. If there are any accessories, they're as guilty as anyone.

The bottom line is that the two were charged as adults, and the prosecution failed to establish that the pair knew what they were doing was wrong. The mob hysteria meant that this was assumed. The case will go before the European Human Rights course later this year, and leading legal opinion expects the convictions to be set aside over the clear breach of the pair's rights.

When the "dominating discourse" focuses so much in individual responsability and dismisses social causes for the crime so easily, it's much harder for anyone to try to study in any depth the "external factors" that might be working in a society where two 10-year old kids torture and kill. A society where two kids do what they did is a society where something has gone wrong, one way or another.
Valid point. Indeed, this murder was the event that swung the debate from society to the individual, helped on its way by a soundbite from the Opposition's Home Affairs spokesman, that we should "understand a little less, and condem a little more". Said spokesman is now Prime Minister.

But it's much easier to blame the kids, treat them like adult criminals and lock them than to think in any depth about what might be going wrong.
This is not the forum to discuss those issues in the depth they deserve. My brief take is that, clearly, the two were de-sensitized to violence, and the implications of their actions, a process that had been happening for many years.

Why did that happen? Answer that - and you'd need to look into the background of the families concerned - and we might be getting somewhere.

i'm not sure whether clocks go back oct 24 or 31.

Shannon
i'm not ashamed to admit i'm among the 3 women and 2 guys in the world who consider keanu a hottie
One of the other fems is a colleague from work. Who is the last one? Ah, Jessica, thanks for coming out.

yeah, as in the animaniacs character who combines comedy with grouchiness

Laura
Describe Sharon Cherski by using the letters in her name.
A friend of the Irish daredevil who jeopardises his Chinese detective friend: O'risks her Chan.
She's one of the people the self-proclaimed list mother looks up to, obviously: Nach! Kris' heros!
And she's part of a strange sex cult that uses lights in kinky ways: Kaos shine ... ch-r-r!

Betsy
My first game is tomorrow
Ooh, good luck. May the force of Beckham's free kicks, and Lineker's good behaviour, be with you. A side called Leyden? They sound like Leyton, home of Leyton Orient Nil. Ready, butts? Get kicked.

The Wombat on "Sunscreen"
apparently you Yanks can't handle the full 7 minute version, so it's been cut back to 5... Ha.
Ha! squared. Gambo's American Hits show played a 7' version the other week. So, a British show can handle something that the country it's based on can't. Go fig.

Sara
I always forget about that part of the NMW. mainly because I don't agree with it, I guess. but how much is it for under 21'ers? 3 pounds an hour, minimum?
Yip. And, well, I might like to forget about Lokomotiv Moscow in Europe this week, just because I don't think they deserve to be there, but they'll still be cr*pping up on Eurospit Thursday night.

we actually addressed it to Mrs and Mr Sara...

thats a naughty way of putting it as well hehe you all know how it should go!!! :)
Well, we kinda forgot that Ross didn't have a middle name, so couldn't write to S.L. and R. Macdonald, Their House, By a Road, Ethics, UK.

being 17 and having sex for the first time then, was still too young
The more I hear this, the more I begin to sympathize with notorious left-winger Tony Blair. Aagh! Retake...

being 17 and having sex for the first time then, was still too young
The more I hear this, the more I begin to sympathize with notorious left-winger Tony Benn that the age of consent for everyone should be raised to 97.

you tip taxi drivers? hmm..I never have.
Yep, but then they do seem to give me good rides. Always. A tip is for good service and all that...

I always tip at a hotel
I don't, coz the hotel's charging me (or, to be exact, my company) between 70 and 100 pounds a night, a lot more than I value the service they're providing. Quite frankly, if the place can't pay their staff decently on that take, there's something badly wrong.

I read a newspaper - be more impressed,I read two of them :)

And on that bombshell...

Brum: cloudy & 13 * Tonight: Mllca@Chelc; LMosc@Lazio
St John's: 65cm grinds to halt. Toronto: 15cm stops

Kevin takes German 101 (slightly edited for accurancy)
In Germany (also called "Aspen") hamburgers are referred to as Fleischkrapfen, or translated, "meat sandwiches". this is a far less offensive term to everyone involved, so i think from now on, americans should refer to "hamburgers" as "Fleischkrapfen". Next time you go to McDonalds, refrain from ordering the politcally incorrect hamburger, and simply say instead "geben Sie mir ein Fleischkrapfen!"
In German 202, we find out what's the German for "vegetable burger", and "The staff at this United Station import don't understand the simplest language: are they crazy or something?"

Sean
Do please bear in mind what a tiny fraction of the human population most any individual gets to meet.
Well... it's not quite so small. In "Innumeracy", John Allen Paulos talks of how, if each person knows 1000 other people, "a friend of a friend" could be any of 1 billion people. You're likely to meet such a person in almost any situation; it's finding the common contact that's the tricky part.

Betsy
There is such a thing as ketchup-flavored chips.
Indeed there are. They've been a fixture in the UK for some years now. Along with such esoteric flavours as Worcester Sauce, Prawn Cocktail and Ready Salted.

Sara tries her hardest to be a Brit
less than our minimum wage..and less than yours now too, since that lovely minumum wage just came into effect :) its 3.60 isn't it? expect a nice pay raise!!
3.60 in the UK, not Ireland (whence Brendan cometh). Also, it's just GBP 3 for those under 21. So, sadly, I don't think Brendan can expect a raise from this innovation.

keyoneohthree
it's sad....claire's even my wallpaper
Um, hello, what's so sad about that? One's wallpaper is an expression of one's personality, hence why I've recently had Soiree 99, Powerpuff Girls, and "10 Things I Hate..." backdrops.

Lauren: a year already? Isn't time fun when you're having flies..

Angela, on her boyf's family
They are AFRAID of "unusual" types of food (they showed fear at the sign of the Brussels Sprouts buried in the vegetable medley that one brave soul brought for Christmas dinner).
Ah, now is this worry at the unusualness of the food, or something personal against Brussels Sprouts. For me - and for a lot of other people - those things stink to high heaven, and I can taste them if they've been in contact with something else. Maybe take it as something against those veg.

And finally, a thought that's been running around my mind for a few weeks now. Following the lead of such net-luminaries as Kent, D-anon and others, I'm thinking of circulating my thoughts on events of the week to people who want to receive them. If anyone's interested in taking about three mailings a week - one on sport, one on entertainment, one on "current affairs", please let me know off list.

Have a good Easter, Passover, month before Summer...

Codsall: cloudy & 16 * icq 14441391 * Davis Cup: GB 1 USA 2

using the ulrika-ka-ka-ka gag from bbc's "shooting stars", where super swede ulrika jonnson is a regular

If your headache is from drinking a bit too much alcohol the day before, you should drink coffee, drink a beer, have a walk and then sleep.
Coffee is bad: it dehydrates. Beer is bad, for the same reason. A walk is good, as it freshens up the lungs and prepares the body for quality sleep. Water or juices help put the water back in the body.

From headaches to Hoeneker
then they simply allowed to die in his bed in Chile?!
Half a world away from the country he loved (allegedly). That sort of punishment might be the worst kind: being notionally free, but unable to go where your heart wants to be. But then, it's only what he did with a whole country.

Sara
England is getting more into tipping :) Ross and I always leave a tip anyway :)
There are people who don't? In the UK, I'll tip waiters around 10%, but nothing for buffet service; taxi drivers a similar amount, my hairdresser 20% (but that's coz he's great conversation), and tour guides a pound or two. Nothing for hotel staff, coz the rates they charge are extortionate.

In Ca, it was 15% for waiting staff, $2 each way for the airport coach drivers, and a crisp $20 note for the pair at my hotel. The family I've stayed with got clock and picture.

yes, the "chiffres et lettres" is a wind-up - here's why

�

sianol pedwar cymru (s4c)

coldwar web site

r+j.com is still active, unlike shimelle's fantastic unofficial site

Brendan, then the Guru of Wacko, on "Lolita".
That film was far from erotic - it was just sad. I hate censorship!
censorship? huh? what was censored?
The movie itself. It didn't get a US distributor, so had to premiere on pay-to-view telly. (It also got a showing in LA, in order to qualify for this years Oscars.) No such reluctance to show high art in the UK, where we went through the pains of this movie back in the 60s when the paperback came out.

Richard
I saw my first belly button of spring today.
I don't think they've ever been away from Britain: we've had a decently mild winter, and I recall some very short tops just after new year.

On a teacher, Johnathan
She claims she did nothing wrong
She had a child with someone who's young enough to be her own child. With someone she was teaching. With someone she was in a power relationship with in the first place. That's a lot of wrong things.

I'm not being arrogant when I say that it wouldn't be all that difficult to find an emotionally damaged 15 year old, someone with a bad home life or other things that make her feel alienated from society, sweep her off her feet, be the first person who tells her that she is loved, and eventually seduce her into bed. And, it would be rape, pure and simple.
This reminds me a bit too much of something that happened in my teaching months. Girl of 17 has problems, and confides some of them in visiting teacher. Girl develops huge crush on said teacher, who is stuck between a rock and a hard place; between supporting her and politely denying the crush. It's hell for everyone.

dr ian paisley is one of ulster's politicians, and is known for always speaking very loudly. this may be a really rotten punishment.

keyoneohthree
felt it wasn't worth it since he already knew the ending
What? You mean the ship sinks?! Sh*t! Isn't it, like, unsinkable (unless at least three compartments on the same side of the hull are breached at the same time) or something?

Paulo
My point was that a big part of a friendship is to respect the others as they are.
This is, undoubtedly, true. Yet what is to be done when one's friend refuses to attempt to do that, and insists that she knows best; that no argument can be brooked?

Which kinda leads me to the Yugoslavia situation. From a military standpoint, it looks like there will be ground troops involved, or a capitulation from one side or the other. Having driven ethnic Albanians from their homes, Milosevic is offering to let them return--and even to remove "some" of his troops from Kosovo--if NATO halts its bombing first. By framing NATO as the actor and the Serbs as the enforcers of consequences, Milosevic gets to define the options and their costs. Rather than play NATO's game--autonomy or bombing--he's creating a new game: ethnic cleansing or bombing. In this game, all NATO gets for backing off is what it had in the first place. That would be not good. A total waste of all our time and effort.

It's a bad thing, and my sympathies and best wishes for those more closely caught up in it than I.

Something else on Sunday.

Codsall: cloudy & 15 * I don't like your massages

telequote: chandler bing to monica geller