Session Start: Tue Feb 03 17:37:53 1998
*** Now talking in #webdesign

Zonie- the 'Office Hours' begin at .7-8:30PM PST . / .8-9:3OPM MST . on Saturdays and 5:30-7:00 PM PST. / .6:30-8:00 PM MST  Tuesdays it is now. 6:40 PM MST-Zonie- lesson #1-4,and MIDTERM QUIZare now up and ready for download
<flamingo> Zonie's first page loaded fine
<Ghatten> :( I did not realize that I had a bad Netscape version LOL
<Zonie> >> flamingo << it's the project that has the milk carton that was giving Ghatten problems
<flamingo> Zonie: your page just crashed Netscape on me too.
<Zonie> which version you got 4.03 ?
<Ghatten> EEK..
<z-dowie> Hello all! I was just posting a note on the BB to remind everyone to come to class tonight.
<Ghatten> Zonie, it isn't all Java cause I have surfed all over and saw some really cool Java Applets when i was checking links for Lesson 3
<flamingo> Zonie: 4.01
<Zonie> I have no problems with 4.04 and neither does Blossom on that page
<Zonie> I want to keep the milk carton : )
<Blossom^> nope......just loaded it.....no problem at all in NS
<flamingo> I don't have any problems with Java either...
<Zonie> NS says the Java problem is there up to, 4.04 that is why I got 4.04 : )
<Blossom^> NS4 that is........and just hit wrong button......lol........that url Zonie was on old ICQ bookmarks and i lost them with installation of new one...sorry
<Ghatten> Otter what version of NS are you using?
<Ghatten> using?
<Blossom^> Ghatten my e-mail for NS has become corrupt.....can't even use it......does illegal stuff.....lol
<Otter> I'm still using 3.01
<Ghatten> Are you willing to look at Zonie's browser chewing page?
<Otter> URL?
<Zonie> My notebook for this HTML class is at . . . . . don't copy it : )
<Blossom^> http://members.xoom.com/flfry/NoteBook/
<Zonie> http://members.xoom.com/flfry/NoteBook/
<Zonie> the project link
<Blossom^> you're quick....hehe....was gonna add that too......lol
<Ghatten> I am going to d/l NS 4.04 this weekend and will try again Z
<z-dowie> Is there a deadline for the midterm to be done?
<Otter> His page loaded -- where's the problem?
<flamingo> Zonnie: my Netscape Gold doesn't like that page either... Not a good sign
<Zonie> which version ?
<Zonie> 3.01
<Blossom^> maybe it's the Remotes Zonie?
<Zonie> no it's the milk carton
<Blossom^> ok
<Zonie> I think cause it keep reloading new info
<kittycat1> Ghatten--got my picture cropped--it works FINE
<kittycat1> Thankee
<Ghatten> The midterm should be done if you are looking for CEU's by Sunday
<flamingo> Zonnie: I would be a little concerned if some browsers are having trouble opening this page
<z-dowie> Ok, thanks.
<Ghatten> Your Welcome!  Both Flamingo and I note that this is something that has happened before to both of us
<Ghatten> and I think it happened long ago to Blue too!
<Otter> Is it the "Project" page that's a problem?
<flamingo> Yes, Otter
<Ghatten> yes the milk carton one
<Blossom^> has happened to me too......tooooo much coffee
<Otter> Sent me to another window to choose a browser and then opened the frames at SPRYNET!!!
<flamingo> Same here ... Otter
<Ghatten> ROFL
<Zonie> ok milk carton gone now see if you still have problems
<Ghatten> Uh...Zonie I think that's bad news
<Zonie> what ?
<Ghatten> Otter with NS 3 having troubles
<Ghatten> Going to look now
<Zonie> bet she don't got 3.04 : )
<Otter> Still sends me to SPRYNET if I click on Project
<Zonie> yes
<Zonie> SPRYNET is where project is
<Otter> I have NS3.01
<Zonie> yep : )
<flamingo> My browser won't even let me go there now
<Zonie> am I the only one who reads the stuff at NS : )
<Ghatten> Must be hehe..would seem if there were a big problem it would crash with all Java or at least more often with other Java
<Zonie> only know what I read : )
<Ghatten> Zonie, you sure have a way with text graphics!!
<Zonie> which ?
<Blossom^> Zonie........it loaded a lot quicker for sure.......
<JanM> Ghatten, I'm still having a problem :(
<Ghatten> And Netscape has not crashed this time
<Zonie> yes the milk carton is slow, it is called from outside, from the national foundation for missing children
<Ghatten> Hi Jan--what happened?
<JanM> Nothing....I still have 2 graphics side by side. I want 1 to be on other side of page.
<Ghatten> You links page was File not found 
<Zonie> with NS4.04 and NS3.04 I go straight in no problems with or without
<Ghatten> Zonie--
<Ghatten> Jan--can you send me the source code by email...
<Ghatten> webdesign@vu.org
<Zonie> not for me : )
<JanM> yep...no problem.  I just printed it out.  I'll copy and paste it over to you right now.
<Blossom^> i got it too.......hmmmmmm.......the links page that is
<JanM> It's very small right now.  Not much on it yet :)
<Ghatten> s'okay
<flamingo> brb
<Zonie> I hate NS: )
<Blossom^> hehe
<JanM> Take your time.  I have another class now...will try to get back later..or wait to hear from you.
<Ghatten> Sometimes it is easier to see what is going on when I can see the code Jan
<VU_Log> I hate MSIE
<VU_Log> :)
<Blossom^> rofl
<JanM> bye..thanks a bunch. * Otter hates MSIE too!!! :)
<Zonie> cause you not got IE4 : )
<VU_Log> Sure do got IE4.0
<Zonie> 4.72 ?
<VU_Log> 'Member me, I had to spend 20 hours redesigning the Vu web site because of a bug in IE4.0 code
<VU_Log> Got 4.02 now
<Zonie> is like a rock
<VU_Log> (sinking?)
<Ghatten> Page Not Found
<Ghatten> The Server [home.sprynet.com] was unable to find the following page: 
<Ghatten> Page [links.htm] 
<Ghatten> User [crutchaids] 
<Zonie> try empty cache : )
<Zonie> It come right up for me in all 3 browsers
<Ghatten> I try so hard NOT to hate
<Ghatten> LOL
<VU_Log> Try so hard, yet some things are so easy :)
<Ghatten> ROFLMAO Vu_Log --you are BAAAAD
<z-dowie> Zonie, when I clicked on the browser link I went to your crutchaids page, (using IE) but when I clicked on the SPRYNET browser detection link it came up Page not found...
<Ghatten> Sometimes it can get just a tad strange in this room
<z-kittycat1> just a tad? sheesshh
<Ghatten> hehe
<Ghatten> Well other than assorted odd issues with Zonie's page are there any HTML questions?
<Zonie> I zip through like hot butter
<z-dowie> Your page likes you.
<Ghatten> Which is probably for the best
<Zonie> I don't know what to do, I can't reproduce any of the problems you folks say your having
<Ghatten> I'll sell you a slightly used copy of Netscape 4.03 cheap
<Zonie> no one before tonight has said anything either
<Zonie> I don't understand it
<z-kittycat1> I got here late--what is the URL?
<Zonie> My NoteBook for this HTML class is at . . . . . don't copy it : )
<Zonie> http://members.xoom.com/flfry/NoteBook/
<Zonie> the project link
<flamingo> Well... Zonie... I won't be going to your page again... not until I upgrade to Netscape 4.04... and that won't be soon... Sorry...
<flamingo> It crashed my entire computer
<Zonie> NS crashed your entire computer ?
<flamingo> Yep... couldn't do anything
<Zonie> I would be upgrading quick LOL
<flamingo> I had to restart my computer
<flamingo> No... LOL... I'll just stay away from your page;-)
<Zonie> watch out for that applet on other pages too then : )
<Zonie> Links to Tutorials, Cyber Schools, Web supplies, and more
<Zonie> http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/8043/
<Zonie> see what happens there 
<flamingo> I've been to other pages and haven't had this problem
<Zonie> has same applet
<Ghatten> taking a trip now to see
<Otter> I've got one up with Java that will crash your 'puter too flamingo!!!  Needs PentiumII--- LOL
<flamingo> I guess what you need to think about is who is going to be your viewers of this Web page...
<flamingo> Otter: Please no... not tonight... LOL
<Ghatten> LOL
<Ghatten> Can we help you nyn?
<nyn>is my server(www.bright.net) plus my ~cass (my username) what would be the url of say.. page two?
<z-dowie> My browser keeps giving me a "plug-in did not initialize properly".  What do I do?
<nyn> oops, lost half the question! lol
<Ghatten> uh Floyd--Netscape just performed another Illegal operations here...one more and Mulder and Scully will be investigating
<Otter> ROFL
<z-Blue> LOL
<flamingo> Look out Ghatten
<Zonie> well if NS performs illegal ops it's not applet fault is it ?
<Ghatten> LOL
<Ghatten> Uh
<Otter> could be -- I get it on certain sites
<Ghatten> Zonie--I think the reason no one complained before is that their browswers crash and they are afraid to return to send you email
<flamingo> LOL
<nyn> how to name my links if the file i upload has to be names index.html, my page url is my server (www.bright.net)  plus my username ~cass what would be the url of page two?
<Zonie> no lots of students have been there to get stuff
<Zonie> and never said anything about problems
<Zonie> oh well will have to send all NS to no Java site I guess
<Zonie> or to MS to download IE : )
<Ghatten> Usually---it would be the http://www.bright.net/~cass/thenewpagesname.html
<nyn> thanks, i thought it would be something like that
<Ghatten> Your directory and then the / and then the name of the page
<Ghatten> Zonie--the other page is the Quest for Knowledge Page?
<Zonie> yes
<nyn> but it has to be uploaded as index.html is that just a folder for the whole thing?
<flamingo> I just went to http://www.bright.net/~cass/ and there isn't a page there
<Ghatten> Can we answer your questions has question?
<nyn> didn't say there was
<Ghatten> The first page has to be index.html
<z-Blue> http://www.download.com/Mac/Result/Download/0,21,207-36462,00.html
<Ghatten> it will just come up with the directory
<Ghatten> http://www.bright.net/~cass/
<Ghatten> others would have the page name appended
<Ghatten> Zonie--that QFK page had crashed my page before---when I had graded the 828 pages and had 10 done in my email waiting to go out ROFLMAO
<Zonie> that script wasn't there then
<Ghatten> hmmmmm
<Zonie> maybe you got corrupt file somewhere ?
<Ghatten> Nyn did that make send for you
<Ghatten> The first page (the one that is the index.html)
<nyn> yes it did thanks a lot I was making way too much out of it for my little bwain
<nyn> lol
<Ghatten> will show up when the server + your directory and the / is entered
<Ghatten> the others have to have your directory the / and then name
<nyn> okay
<Ghatten> Has question---do you still have a question?
<hasquestion> yes, sorry
<hasquestion> about the paint shop pro
<Ghatten> don't apologize
<Ghatten> :)
<hasquestion> one of the links pointed to a place where you could get online classes on psp
<hasquestion> I got the server and the channel, but can't remember which link it was now :(
<Ghatten> Probably the http://www.shafran.com?  he does teach a class at 
<hasquestion> cause I need it now...I've pretty much got everything else down now
<Ghatten> not sure I would take the class without looking over all the other stuff that is available free
<hasquestion> maybe I should just climb inside the puter and stay in there at the rate I'm going
<hasquestion> this one I found is free
<Ghatten> LOL...Once, I asked a friend how she did some really amazing graphics on her web page
<Ghatten> She told me she sat at her computer with the PSP tutorials and spent 18 (yep EIGHTEEN) hours!!!!)
<hasquestion> I can believe it
<Otter> :)
<z-dowie> Ghatten, speaking of the PSP and other links in the lessons
<Ghatten> But the graphics were great ROFL
<z-dowie> Would it be possible to put the URL's there so we can see them.  If we print the page to go back to it
<z-dowie> when the class is done, we won't know where to go.
<Ghatten> If you copy the page to your computer all you need to do is log on and you should be able to use the links online
<hasquestion> save as html in your directory
<Ghatten> yes
<z-dowie> Oh...okay...thanks.
<z-dowie> Good thing I came tonight!
<Ghatten> :)
<z-nyn> dowie i saved all the lessons to a floppy, you can use the link that way if you're short on HD space
<z-dowie> Yes, I am.  That's a good idea.  Guess I better get busy with that.
<hasquestion> yes, nyn, and I am printing out all the tutorials for future reference oo
<Ghatten> Any other HTML questions?
<hasquestion> yes
<hasquestion> personally....do you recommend using marquis or not?
<Ghatten> The <MARQUEE> tag?
<hasquestion> yes
<Ghatten> Well, it depends. Since we know that NS folks will only see static text, if it is okay that they see static text, then it's okay
<Ghatten> But if you really want that effect. .either don't use it since at least 1/2 of the folks won't see it
<VU_Log> 63% of VU students are using NS 3 or 4, just a thought
<Ghatten> or look for a JavaApplet or JavaScript that does the same thing if you are brave
<hasquestion> yeah, I guess I'll have to come up with an alternative
<z-nyn> static?
<Ghatten> Also
<hasquestion> not THAT brave, running IE
<Ghatten> An animate gif can be made to simulate the <MARQUEE> tag and it is supported by most browsers and is easy to use
<Ghatten> Static=still as opposed to scrolling
<z-runangel> Why won't NS folks see marquis?
<Ghatten> The <MARQUEE> Tag is IE specific.. take a look back at the lesson (2?) where we cover "browserisms"
<z-MCW> I use both on my pages but they are set so that no matter what browser people are using the text will still look correct and they won't know they are missing anything
<Ghatten> Both what MCW?
<Ghatten> Sorry
<z-MCW> marquee and blink tags
<Otter> It's ok to use -- just don't make it the most important thing on the page!
<Ghatten> Ah...I had used the <MARQUEE> Tag on a page I did for a friend since i knew she would look at it in IE...but did the same. .just made it so it was "okay" just not scrolling for Netscape
<Ghatten> Well--it's almost time for class to end
<Ghatten> Any last minute queries?
<Ghatten> Everybody take the Midterm?
<Ghatten> It's a good idea to take it even if you do not want to get a grade--will give you an idea of how well you are done
<Ghatten> doing
<z-runangel> I'm behind...but will take it when I catch up.
<z-kittycat1> only had to look for 2 of the answers!!
<z-kittycat1> Ghatten--is there another class Thursday?
<z-kittycat1> or not until Saturday?
<Otter> kittycat --class is on Saturday-- 7pm PST
<z-kittycat1> thankee--Otter
<Ghatten> Next class is Sat
<z-Blue> thanks Ghatten
<z-Sherry> that's 7pm PST, now you say ? thought tonight was 6:30 PST then discover it is 6:30 MST :(
<Otter> Sherry -- all class times are usually listed as PST
<hasquestion> what time did tonight's start? 
<z-dowie> Makes the rest of us have to do the math!
<Ghatten> 5:30 PST
<hasquestion> ok, writing it down
<Ghatten> VU has the time "on campus" posted in the classroom log in area
<Ghatten> so you can always check there
<hasquestion> couldn't get in yesterday morning :( and hadn't had a chance today
<flamingo> Tuesday 5:30-7:00pm & Saturday, 7-8:30pm (Pacific) 
<z-dowie> I also posted it on the BB tonight for the Tuesday class.
<Otter> thanx dowie!!!
<Ghatten> Well--it's the end of class
<Ghatten> Nite folks!!!!!!!! Session Close: Tue Feb 03 18:54:19 1998