How did you come to be signed by Burnley?

Actually my brother was signed by Burnley, he was spotted in Northamptonshire by a scout. He was actually from the Peterborough area. He was playing for the county, and there was a Burnley scout there. My brother went up there. I started at Notts Forest. Forest offered me schoolboy and then apprenticeship forms. My brother told Burnley about me, said I was an up and coming footballer that Forest were about to sign. So I got a phone call from Burnley Football Club and they said don't sign anything for Forest, as we want you to come up and we'll have a look at you. The biggest draw for me was that my brother was there anyway. I had to leave home anyway, I was going God knows how many hundreds of miles from home, and so I went where my brother was. So I went up on the Sunday and I trained Monday and Tuesday and they signed me on the Tuesday evening. They must have liked something - don't know what though!

Harry Potts was there, yes, and also Brian Miller and Frank Casper, and it was Frank who was taking the youth on at the time, and it was actually Frank who suggested to the rest of them that I sign.

Yes. I don't know how the scouting system was set up or what let to it breaking down, but we used to have a hell of a lot of players coming down from the North East. There were a lot of Geordie lads there, and a lot of Scottish lads used to come down as well. So we had a fairly tight scouting system up in those areas. I know I played against Peter Beardsley in one of the trial games. They were concerned about his physique, said he was too small.

I'd say we were the last batch of players that came through the ranks at Burnley. You know, the last load of players that have gone on to have successful careers. We were all very young lads playing together at the same time.

I would agree with you, yes. It was always the case at Burnley that some of the players there could hardly walk on the Friday and yet they were put in on the Saturday. And us younger players, you know we were really ambitious, and we were thinking, "We're going to get a chance somewhere along the line." And it never came, it never came. And we did used to wonder why - the bloke who was playing could hardly stand. And it's always easy to say in hindsight, but possibly, yes. If they'd have put some of the younger players in a bit sooner - because it was obvious that the younger players had the ability. They'd all come through and most of them have made good careers for themselves. They were all holding their own in the reserves at the time. Actually, most of us were still playing in the Youth team and getting games in the reserves as well. A lot of the lads were trying to break through from the reserves into the first team. Possibly if they'd have been given a chance well....I'm not saying that we'd have avoided the drop, but, you know, we would have gone down fighting.

You know, every club would like to have a successful youth policy and a great scouting system, which Burnley did have, but you need a hell of a lot of resources to fund it. And when the money's dropping and dropping, you've got to look at the finances and say, priorities. I don't think the youth policy was the biggest priority. Obviously the first team is the priority and they couldn't wait for the young players to come through, so they had to go out and buy then. Which was a first for Burnley, as they weren't recognised as a buying club.

Yes, I'd possibly agree that we might have been just a couple of players short. But when Bondie came in he wanted to do everything his way and he wanted his players. And not just John Bond personally, I think most managers in general get their own men in, you know, they feel more comfortable, they're players that they feel comfortable with, and that's what he tried to do. But I think he could have waited a bit longer just to try and get to know the players, the set-up, the feeling of the town, before he started doing it.

He's a very knowledgeable man, in footballing terms and in general. But you've got to live in Burnley to have that insight into the real nature of the club. You've got to live in Burnley to know that. You can't just come to Burnley and read it in books to know what it's like. I lived there from when I was 16 up to 24, and then I moved back afterwards. I enjoyed living there, and the truth is that I'll probably move back again at some time in the future. They're friendly people, but they demand success.

100 per cent. I mean, if you go out and play diabolically, as long as the players have given 100 per cent they'll swallow the disappointment of defeat. Plus the fact he was a very flamboyant character, and I think to a point he alienated himself from the crowd. You know, they're working class people in Burnley. And when they saw this man coming down the road with jewelry everywhere, nice suit, big cigar, big car...it was a bit of a culture shock!

But me personally, when John Bond came I couldn't stand the bloke. I'll go on record saying that - I could not stand the bloke. And, at the time, I didn't know whether to finish or not. I was out the season before and I was struggling badly with an injury.

Well, I struggle like that - struggle like hell, yeah. When we started the pre-season, I couldn't do pre-season. I just wasn't physically strong enough to do the pre-season, I'd been out that long. And he crucified me. Oh, God, he absolutely slaughtered me. You know, he'd have treated his dog better than he'd have treated me. And I was maybe a bit na�ve and I felt sorry for myself, but in the end I thought, "He just wants a reaction from me." And that's all he wanted - a reaction from me. And I went on and went through the pain barrier. Again - I'll go on the record saying this - he was the best manager I've played under. The best coach. His knowledge of the game was tremendous.

I think his man-management was....yes, he treated everyone the same - he was a very hard man. And I think some people, rather than face him and have a confrontation with him, they backed down, and I think that's the worst thing they could have done with someone like Bond. If some of those had stood up to John Bond face-to-face, they would have got a lot more out of him than what they did. Everybody's got their own opinion about Bond, and most people criticise him. But I think it's up to certain players to have a look at themselves and say, "Well, was it a failing on my part, a weakness on my part, in my character make up that I didn't do more." One thing was to stand up to him. You know, you don't just let yourself get hammered into the ground every day, which was what he would try and do. If you stood up to him, he'd respect you and you'd get a lot more out of him. In the end, I got on with him very well.

It was a family club, and it changed overnight. Everybody was terrified of John Bond - they were terrified of him, you know, me included. He didn't have to say anything. People used to train and get out. Straight after training they'd get changed quick and try and get out of the club, so they'd be out of his way. There's just something about the man, the very presence of the man - we were overawed by his presence. It's hard to describe, he's an awesome character.

Possibly not, possibly to a bigger club, but possibly not to Burnley. It's always been a family club, and someone within the club has always taken over - they'd go from youth team coach to reserve team coach, first team coach, then first team manager. That was always the case with Burnley, and all of a sudden they wanted a big name, and they got a big name. And they got a big man to go with it as well.

Too much familiarity, is that what you're saying? Possibly so, possibly so. Brian Miller is one of the most honest men I've ever come across, brutally honest.

You left the season before the 1987 debacle. Could you see that coming?

Yes.

Yes I could, yes. The club had.....Christ, it had virtually disintegrated, you know. It virtually caved in on itself, it really did. The rot had set in, in a big way. I just didn't know how they were going to dig themselves out, because the finances weren't there. They just didn't have the money to do anything about it. And the performances we were putting in were diabolical, but they couldn't go out and strengthen the squad or anything.

Yes, but then again at that time I really can't blame Burnley. The geographical position of the town is horrendous as far as the big clubs are concerned. So anyone who's really outstanding would have been snapped up by the bigger clubs. Burnley were an unfashionable club then. At one time Burnley was a fashionable club and people wanted to go there, it had a reputation of being a nursery for great players, but over the years that died and no-one wanted to go there. People were writing off to Liverpool, Man Utd, Everton. It was a hell of an area to compete with all the other clubs. So at that time Burnley were picking up scraps, mediocre players. It must have been almost impossible to compete - a very difficult situation.

When I finally left the club, it was on something of a sour note. There were people appointed at the club, people who were involved in the running of the team, who should never have been considered. The club wasn't doing all that well when I was there, but the people who they appointed didn't do anything to improve the situation. And the day-to-day atmosphere - you know, trying to get the morale of the players up - confidence is a big thing in football - and there were a few people who were at the club who did nothing to help the players. You have to respect people to work with them - you don't have to like them, but you have to respect them - and these people didn't get the respect, and rightly so, because they never showed any to any of the players.

And the atmosphere of the club was a big factor. It was a big factor in their success when we were kids there and it was a real family club. The lads would have kicked their own grandmother to get a game. That's how it was. But as the years went on, that slowly went away. It was a chore sometimes, coming in, it really was. You know, at one time, Christ you couldn't wait to get out there and train, and sometimes it was so enjoyable you didn't want the training to end. You looked forward to every day. I made my debut when I was 17. I think it was Jim Thompson who was injured. I was such a cocky sod, I turned round and said, "You're not getting your place back now." I actually said that to Jim, and afterwards I thought, "Christ that sounded awful that," you know. But that's what the players were like, you know they were so ambitious they were cut-throat. They all wanted to do well, the young lads, it wasn't just me, it was everybody else as well.

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