EDITOR: Can you first explain why Ted Turner would want to put the World
Wrestling Federation out of business? Is it strictly business, or are there
some personal issues involved with you and Ted that the World Wrestling
Federation fans may not be aware of?
VINCE: This all goes back to 1985. There is nothing recent in terms of his
attempt to acquire the World Wrestling Federation. The World Wrestling
Federation at one time was doing business with Turner Broadcasting System,
Superstation Channel 17. We were supplying the Superstation with the
wrestling programming, having purchased what was then Georgia Championship
Wrestling with Ted Turners blessings. Turner knew of our plans. He knew of
our pay-per-view plans for the future. He knew we were on USA Network, and he
knew we had a syndicated network. He wholeheartedly endorsed us and welcomed
us as part of his family, if you would, supplying wrestling programming for
WTBS.
Shortly after we began supplying programming, he did invite me to a ball
game. Sitting in his box watching the Braves play, it was there that he told
me he thought I had too good a deal, that the deal I had was better than the
one he had previously, and we already had our deal in writing. He
wanted to change the deal. As a matter of fact, he wanted to acquire a stock
interest and ownership interest. Ultimately he would own more than half. He
wanted to own the majority stock. That was not our deal.
But I did notwant to be in business with someone who did not want to be in
business with me. He tried to throw us out on a technicality; it didn't work.
I subsequently sold the company to Jim Crockett. I sold Georgia Championship
Wrestling to Jim Crockett because it was just an unhealthy environment to do
business with Turner. I knew him then to be someone who welshes on a deal. I
then knew him to be a greedy human being as far as business was concerned. I
witnessed the gruff and rude way that he treated his wife and family at the
ball game. And I couldn't believe after he had allowed me to pay one million
dollars for Georgia Championship Wrestling that he would attempt to get us of
WTBS because I wouldn't go along with selling a portion of my company to him.
I wasnt interested. Its a private company producing a product that has been
in my family for three generations, and it wasn't the deal that wed made. I
wasnt interested in
selling to him then or now.
He made several overtures, the last one being 1994. He has made several
overtures over the last decade to try and see if we were for sale, to try to
buy us, and on each occasion the answer was no.
I have a very poor regard for Ted Turner as a businessman and as a human
being. The only thing that I know he has lost atand he has lost a fortuneis
the wrestling business. So I would suggest to you that this is not some sort
of make-believe. This is a personal vendetta from Ted Turner, and in addition
to that he is unquestionably attempting to put us out of business.
EDITOR: What was it that finally made you decide to bring the issues
concerning Ted Turner to the forefront? Was there a breaking point, was there
an instance that finally made you come public with what was going on behind
the scenes?
VINCE: Ted Turner has been practicing what we believe to be predatory
activities for some time. When he decided to produce Nitro, I guess that was
the straw that broke the camels back, but we might have been able to live
even with that had he not unleashed his corporate mouthpiece to constantly
barrage the World Wrestling Federation with untruths and disparaging
comments. Nitro came on in September. We did nothing to retaliate until
finally we had had enough on January 1 of this year. After being kicked
around and abused, we felt we had turned the other cheek enough times
already. It was time to fight.
If Ted Turner wanted to help his wrestling companyby the way, I can't find
that it has made a nickel since he has been at it; it has been nothing but
losses by his own financial statementsthen he would have used some night
other than Monday night to showcase his premier wrestling show. But rather
than help himself on some night on which he would be unencumbered as far as
the genre is concerned, he chose not to help himself. He chose to try and
hurt us. He'll give you some sort of malarkey on how the wrestling audience
on Monday night has grown as a result of his effort, that both shows do a
combined number that is larger than any one number of the one show could
bring. Turner knew whatever the rating would be, he would be sharing it with
the World Wrestling Federation, but that is OK for him because he has other
profitable ventures and subsidiaries like CNN that subsidize his wrestling
organization.
Therefore, rather than help himself and put his primetime television show on
any night other than a Monday night, he chose to go directly at nine o'clock
on Monday night, head-to-head with us, simply to hurt the World Wrestling
Federation. This predatory practice of a network owner going after a
programmer has never been done before in all of television. What is also
historic in nature as far as television is concerned is he makes sure that
his program begins before nine o'clock and ends sometimes 10- 12 minutes
after ten o'clock. This is not ABC and NBC presenting sit-coms, this is not
Frazier versus Home Improvement. As he and his minions would have the public
believe, this is a huge conglomerate organization, a multi-billion- dollar
organization, programming not against a network but against one independent
producer. It is like David and Goliath.
He also has the ability to give away for free on Nitro what would otherwise
be pay-per-view attractions in an effort to win the ratings war because he
doesn't have to make money on pay-per-view. In fact, he doesn't have to make
money at all, and he hasn't. He continues to subsidize the wrestling
operation with his other profitable ventures.
EDITOR: Vince, it has been stated that Ted Turner may be using
questionable business tactics in his effort to force the World Wrestling
Federation out of business. Some of those may include selling advertising
time on his wrestling show at ridiculously lower prices in order to undercut
the World Wrestling Federation and perhaps even illegally tying his
programming together in package deals to various stations across the country.
For example, if you want CNN, then you must take WCW's syndicated
programming. Would you care to elaborate on these tactics used by Turner?
VINCE: I recently read that a Turner spokesperson stated that they don't
really use those tactics all the time, only in highly competitive situations.
So, therefore, based upon what I read, whoever from that organization was
simply saying that we only break the law when we have to, which is not all
the time. That came from Wade Keller. These practices of block booking are
one of the complaints we made to the FTC.
EDITOR: Now, Vince, You do have your critics out there, and one point that
I read quite frequently on the Internet is this: There are people who say
turnaround is fair play, and basically they accuse you of using the same
business tactics in the early 80s to put smaller wrestling promotions out of
business. How would you address those critics, and how would you answer those
remarks?
VINCE: When I acquired the stock from Capitol Wrestling Corporation, the
holding company of the World Wrestling Federation, I did so on a balloon
payment basis. I really didn't have the money, and I was just hoping that
somehow I could create enough cash flow that I might be able to borrow and
scrape together enough cash to acquire the stock. It took me a year to do it.
The balloon payments were spread out over a quarterly basis, and I just
barely made it. I was undercapitalized, I had to rob Peter to pay Paulso to
speakand then from there we simply expanded on cash flow. We were not
wealthy. We werent millionaires. It was a roll of the dice almost every
day. We began to do something that no one had ever done in the wrestling
business. We began to compete with other wrestling organizations, most of
which were operating under a consent decree by the Justice Department. There
had been alleged anti-trust violations by this group of promoters. They
allegedly engaged in blackballing of certain wrestlers and other anti-trust
behavior.
Had they known that we were so undercapitalized, had they known that every
day was a roll of the dice, the outcome would have been far different than it
was. Almost in every instance each individual promoter with whom we competed
had greater resources than we did except that we worked harder, and we
produced a better product. Most of the promoters that we were competing with
were former wrestlers, most middle aged, none of whom had a very strong work
ethic. Their typical day in the office may have been several hours if, in
fact, they went to the office at all. Notwithstanding the concept and how we
were overpowered in almost every instance, they even joined forces or
attempted to join forces against us. I was counting upon the fact, based upon
their egos, that they wouldn't even be able to go to lunch together much less
cooperate with one another. I owned no networks. I operated as they did from
a profitability standpoint with no subsidies from any other organization or
subsidiary.
This was a huge gamble on the part of the World Wrestling Federation, a
huge poker game if you would, in which we were bluffing and they never knew,
but at least it was one wrestling organization competing with another. There
is a huge difference between what happened then and what is going on now.
Ted Turner now sees a mature national wrestling market. Ted Turner is not
competing as one wrestling company to another. Had it not been for subsidies
from his own organization, his wrestling organization would have ceased to
exist some time ago as we know it now. Estimates of at least 60 million
dollars in losses thus far are batted about frequently in the trade journals.
Ted Turner owns television networks with vast holdings and vast influencefrom
news to sport to entertainment. And he is attempting to use all of those
resources to put the World Wrestling Federation out of business. This is not
Coke versus Pepsi, this is one independent wrestling organization versus this
monolithic multi-billion- dollar conglomerate. We are not competing on an
even playing field, as the promoters of old did with the early expansion of
the World Wrestling Federation.
Ted Turner and his minions have attempted to attack every conceivable revenue
source that TitanSports has. They have raided our managerial talent, they
have raided our wrestling talent, they've raided our television talent.Before
the World Wrestling Federation there was no such thing as licensing,
publishing, merchandising, commercial endorsements, etc. Every new aspect of
revenue-producing, from pay -per-view on, has been trail- blazed by the World
Wrestling Federation. Ted Turner, given his druthers, if he can spend enough
money, doesn't care what he loses to put the World Wrestling Federation out
of businessand he'll have it all to himself, a monopolists dream.
EDITOR: In your opinion do you feel that Turner operatives may be
negotiating with World Wrestling Federation athletes who are currently under
contract with the World Wrestling Federation?
VINCE: Perhaps the most recent and best example of Turner's predatory
practices would be the recent phone call I received from Diesel, aka Kevin
Nash, Tuesday morning in which he stated that he had signed a three-year deal
with Turner for what I am led to believe to be a guaranteed huge sum of
money.
Having completed his contractual obligations with Turner's wrestling
organization, Kevin Nash came to the World Wrestling Federation as a
bodyguard. He had been through a number of characterizations in Turner's
wrestling organization, none of which had been successful. However, here
Kevin Nash became Diesel. Through the joint efforts of Kevin Nash and the
World Wrestling Federation, he became a star, a superstar. However, sometime
in June he will cease to be in the World Wrestling Federations wrestling
rings and will make his appearance in Turner's wrestling organization.
Turners organization has no idea how to make a star. All they can do is buy,
and the intention of that buy is,once again, not necessarily to help
themselves ie., Nitro Monday Nightbut to hurt the World Wrestling Federation
because the people in Turner's wrestling organization won't have any more
idea of what to do with Kevin Nash than they did when he was OZ, Vinny Vagas
or whomever he will be in the future. So, the idea then is to acquire the
services of Kevin Nash so that Diesel ceases to exist for the World Wrestling
Federation, thus attempting to hurt the World Wrestling Federation. The
exorbitant sums of money that Turner is willing to spend for this predatory
practice and others is astounding.
EDITOR: Do you at all blame Kevin Nash as much as Ted Turner? Does it hurt
you personally when you take this athlete, you nurture him, you do whats best
for him, you make him a superstar, and at the sight of a fistful of dollars
his loyalty is nowhere to be found? That an individual like Kevin
Nash can go back to the same company that almost ruined his career, the
company that you literally saved him from? Does this hurt you on a personal
level when it comes to Kevin Nash?
VINCE: Kevin and I are friends. I think from my perspective he did not
make a good business decision. Diesel could have become an icon here in the
World Wrestling Federation, an icon from which he would be able to derive
great benefit financially and aesthetically for another 20 years perhaps far
outlasting his time as wrestler in the ring. But, yes, it hurts and people in
Ted's organization know that it hurts.
EDITOR: Taking nothing away from Kevin Nash, in your opinion was he worth the
guaranteed money that Turner offered him, or is it simply just a
matter of Ted Turners being on a crusade wanting to rob the World Wrestling
Federation of its top talent no matter what the cost?
VINCE: I would suggest that Turner and the state of mind that he has now
would do anything to hurt the World Wrestling Federation.
EDITOR: If Vince McMahon was in Diesels shoes and he was offered a
three-year contract of guaranteed money, an astronomical amount of money, why
wouldnt Vince McMahon take that money? Can the World Wrestling Federation
afford to offer its athletes the same kind of money that Turner can offer
them?
VINCE: The generally accepted practice throughout the history of the
wrestling business has been that athletes are compensated on a percentage
basispaid on commission as such. Athletes must have a love for the business
that they are in, a strong work ethic and a sense of loyalty to remain here
in the World Wrestling Federation. The majority of our athletes love to
perform. They are not just television stars working for some conglomerate
media company. They want to reach out and touch the fans, and they do. Many
athletes in the World Wrestling Federation, many performers make very large
sums of money, and those athletes that have the confidence in themselves and
the company compete very well with Turner's guaranteed contracts.
EDITOR: How does a Vince McMahon protect himself? How does he stop this
practice from happening over and over and over again?
VINCE: By being a better businessman and being a better judge of character
and by rewarding those athletes, as best I can, who love this business as I
do, who have an insatiable desire to perform for the public and give it
everything they can, give it their all. We need to attract more athletes like
Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker and on and on.
Each individual is different, we all have different values. Kevin Nash is
looking for security. Hes 37 years old, he is busted up physically and he
doesn't have a love for the business and respect for the business as many
individuals do who have grown up in it. Kevin will remain my friend, I hope,
but I would not have made the same decision that he did.
EDITOR: Would you consider the situation with Ted Turner the fight of
Vince McMahons life?
VINCE: Well, it was against astronomical odds that the World Wrestling
Federation expanded nationally and internationally. We were up against these
millionaire promoters who had far more experience and far greater resources
than we did. We competed favorably with them. We were raked through the coals
by the federal government for three years of microscopic scrutiny, indictment
and trial, and we won. Against this billionaire and his unfair practices and
the overwhelming odds against us, somehow we will win. This is still America,
the public votes, and I think in the end, they'll vote for the World
Wrestling Federation.
EDITOR: In the eyes of Vince McMahon, when do you claim a victory? When will
the fight be over?
VINCE: I don't know that this fight will ever be over. We've seen our
pay-per-views buys increase dramatically. We've seen our attendance increase
dramatically at house shows. People all over the world are clamoring for the
World Wrestling Federation in one form or another. It may be because we have
a better mouse trap.
