CHET: He will face Stone Cold Steve Austin in a submission match. The card
also featuring the Undertaker, Sycho Sid, Goldust , Mankind, Hillbilly Jim
and a cast of thousands as we welcome long time friend of ours, the Hitman
Bret Hart. Good to see you my friend. How ya been?
BRET: I've been really good.
CHET: You've been a babyface. You've been a heel ... right now, the
personality, the image of a Bret Hart, aren't you kinda walking a fine line
between the two?
BRET: Well it's really a strange development going on in wrestling,
especially in America .... like when I wrestled in Europe for example, just
a few weeks ago...I wrestled in Germany as a hero. That's probably my
strongest audience ... is in Germany as a hero...and it was like
overwhelming...like a hundred percent. You know, everyone loved me when I
walked out, and they loved me when I left. In America, I'd say that
they are the exception to the rule . . . it doesn't work like that
anymore...it's more like a pie that's sort of cut...and everyone has a piece
of that pie...and it's not what it used to be where you walked out and
everyone adore you anymore...it doesn't quite....you go out there and and
you expect to be...ah I'll say respected as a hero...it doesn't work like
that...there's even a core of the audience that loves SCSAustin who's very
ruthless and vicious, and everyone seems to be getting away with
breaking the rules, and it's really...in America...I hate to say it, but
it's very tough to be a hero....it's tough to be a hero and have everyone in
that audience love you 'cause no matter who you are...whether you are Bret
Hart or Shawn Michaels, there's quite a few of them who can't stand you and
they hate your guts.
CHET: Goldust. Just slightly unconventional. Part of the action at [WMXIII].
If you were told tomorrow-Bret Hart you' gotta change the image..it's no
longer effective. we
want you to project a character similar to that of Goldust. Would you do it?
Or would you say-I'm taking a walk?
BRET: Well I don't know if I would have to do either. I would just say that
I wouldn't do it. I don't think that ah...I think I'm in a position where I
could afford to speak up and stand my ground on that kind of stuff I
wouldn't want to do anything that I would find offensive, not only just to
myself, but to my parents...my father in particular. I wouldn't do anything
to disappoint him, 'cause he's probably the biggest an of mine out there,
and my mother and...I think...again there's probably a lot of people that
aren't particularly...or maybe they are not fond of me as a wrestler
still...but at the same time...there's...I have I think a huge devoted
following that respect everything that I do, and they appreciate the fact
that I'm so straight forward and straight up the middle...and I think I'm
pretty much honest about everything I do and they appreciate the fact that
I'm pretty much honest about everything I do...and it comes across, I think,
on television that way.
CHET: Pro wrestling, the characters, the personalities, if you guys aren't
at the house limit, aren't you pretty damn close to the house limit?
BRET: Well, I don't know what you mean.
CHET: Well...guys with painted faces, characters like Goldust...how far
beyond that type of personality can a wrestler go?
BRET: I don't know...I'd like to think...a lot of people found the Goldust
character a little over the top say, and I sorta did...but then I thought
geez...Gorgeous George, they were freaking out over him back in the '40s and
'50s. Maybe that's just the 90s...you know, that's what the answer is
to...if you had to create a Gorgeous George for the '90s. That's about where
it would stand. I don't know, I think whatever...if it works...you know,
again there's a limit...but then again the face of wrestling has changed a
lot....especially in America where...I don't know if it's a good or bad, but
it seems like over the last year they've gone away from smaller younger
audience...like not so much...they used to almost key in on the younger
audience, and how they kinda almost drive around them...and you're looking
at a more older teenage audience and more of an adult audience....so I
mean...you can't give them that Doink the Clown kinda stuff and expect them
to buy it.
CHET: Shawn Michaels. The Heartbreak Kid. A legitimate box-office
attraction, also a guy who right now is bothered right now by severe
problems with a knee...is this guy going to wrestle again?
BRET: Ah, I don't know. I'm not completely sold on the fact that he ah...
was convinced that he had a serious knee injury...but then I thought to
myself that the timing was...interesting...but I thought well...I'll be
happy to see the surgery and the scar, and that never happened...so I've
been somewhat skeptical of his integrity of that whole thing. I think I'm
safe to say that I don't think that I buy it, and most of the wrestlers
don't buy it...and I don't think that most of the wrestling fans buy it. I
think...I mean we all get hurt, and I don't doubt that he's got some fairly
battered up knees maybe...but I just think that ah, I think that it was a
face saving thing. He knew that his card was going to be played pretty
soon...and I think he was sort of a sitting duck. Being Champion is very
difficult and I think that he knew that everyone was sorta closing in on him
and instead of...you know expecting to have his shoulders pinned to the
mat...he took an easier exit...and he's recuperating miraculously now so...I
don't buy it. I really don't. I think he should have stuck with maybe lady
wrestling or something like it. I have a lot of ill feelings towards...not
only...a lot of ill feelings about Shawn for quite a little while
anyway...but this is shot with the knee kind of...especially because I think
I was duped in saying that...ok...I felt really bad about it at first...what
a loss...you know, I'll say it, he's a great athlete, and a great wrestler,
but I think that it was a stunt.
CHET: You were involved in a very successful television series up in Canada
which is course homebase for a Bret Hart. If you had the opportunity...If
you were handed the right script, and you could become a legitimate
actor...would you leave the wrestling profession in 15 minutes?
BRET: It's a good question. The big question is what is the right script,
and what's the right vehicle. I suppose if it was the right...if it was
something...like Lonesome Dove I really loved to do...and ah...I think for
example you said we've got Lonesome Dove tomorrow morning...you could do
that for a career, and you'll have to pass up wrestling...I thin I would
pass up on wrestling...but ah...just to be a TV star....I
don't know if I would. I mean, I think it is a very difficult life
itself...and it's a tough call....if it was the right thing, I would pass up
on wrestling....'cause mostly I think I would love to do a change. I've been
doing this for an eternity...so it would be nice to do something different.
CHET: The live gate...PPV..cassettes...European TV...are we talking about an
event that would gross thirty, thirty five, forty million bucks.
BRET: It's tough...yeah I don't know...maybe it boundless...I don't know how
big...it's big. There's so few sporting events that you can imagine that are
watched all the way around the world They'll be watching this in South
Africa...Israel...Hong Kong...India. It's amazing just how big WWF wrestling
is especially on an international scale....I mean if I had to think where
I'm the most popular...it's mind
boggling to think how popular I would be in India. There's billions of
wrestling fans there [smiling]....and
WM id the biggest of them all. It's always an important event. You talked to
me earlier about how many
WM I've been a part of...I've never missed one yet....It's a wonderful event.
CHET: Hulk Hogan, the former WWF Heavyweight Champion...a guy who was your
principal box-office
attraction for a number of years...now a veteran with Ted Turner, Eric
Bischoff and WCW...if someone
were to suggest to you that Vince McMahon created Hulk Hogan...created the
mystique of a Hulk
Hogan...would you buy that?
BRET: Well I almost look at them as a partnership. I think Vince certainly
had a lot to do with the
success of Hulk Hogan....maybe more than Hulk Hogan would maybe let on...and
at the same time...I mean,
I've said some nasty things about Hulk Hogan...but I will say this much
about him...he was maybe the
greatest interviewer...I mean that 30 or 40 second promo...he was maybe the
best interviewer of all
time...so...I mean he did have a lot of charisma and ability in his own
right. I just think Vince brought it
out. I don't think either one of them would have gone as far as they did
without each other. I think that
Hulk was a bona fide entity in wrestling, and Vince was the brains behind him.
CHET: A guy can be 8ft. tall...a guy can run a 100yd dash in 7.5
seconds...he can have the athletic
ability of Michael Jordan, but if he cannot project in front of the camera,
if he can't make the promos
come to life...he may as well drive a truck...he's going nowhere in your
business, right?
BRET: Oh yeah, it's a funny profession 'cause you meet guys all the time
that...and a lot of them are
athletes from other sports that want to get into wrestling. I've always
narrowed it down to...there's
three important elements to wrestling...actually a fourth one. You have to
be able to look the part...but
you also have to be able to perform the part, which means you actually have
to be a very good
wrestler,,,a gifted wrestler...and you have to actually be able to talk the
part. Those are the three
ingredients that you need to be a top wrestler. If you can't talk, and
you're just a great wrestler,
you're never going to make it. The other thing that sorta goes into all
three categories...you have to have
a lot of charisma...whether it's the way you walk...or the way you
move...you look...they are all very
important and without ALL of them you'll never be a top guy. You'll find
yourself...you might be on a
card...you'll never make it to the top.
CHET: Vince McMahon...the top gun...your boss..Is he also a friend ? Is he a
good friend, someone you'd
go to if times were tough?
BRET: Ah...I guess it would depend on how tough things got. I would consider
him a friend I guess...you
know...I don't know...I'm kind of a loner, it's hard for me to say. I'm not
really particularly close with
any of the wrestlers. It's sort of like a...I think a lot of people that
have jobs...you don't really hang out
with the people you work with...you don't really...I don't really miss them
when I go home, let me pit it
that way. Vince...I mean, I have an infinite amount of respect for the guy,
and I suppose if there was a
situation where I needed some advice on or a favor I would go to him.
CHET: Reality. You see him (SCSA) in a restaurant...you see him in a
bar...is he a friend?
BRET: Nah. He's not a friend. I'm not the kind of wrestler...I don't think
there's too many of them that
would actually attack anybody or have a confrontation with a wrestler
outside the ring...if you're not
getting paid for it...you know.
CHET: Have you ever been attacked by a fan in and out of the wrestling ring?
BRET: Well I have one crazy fan that follows me around...a female fan that
sorta stalks me...and scares
the hell out of me.
CHET: Ever required police protection?
BRET: Three time[laughs]...and whenever I'm in that area.
CHET: Did it make you worry about your family?
BRET: Just myself. Luckily I don't have to bring my family around very
often. If and when I do in that
area...you know...there's a lot of crazy people out there. I generally get
treated with respect
everywhere . Years ago you had to defend yourself all the time in wrestling.
It was almost a part of the
job. Then it got to be where you could never touch anybody, because it would
cost you a lot of money to
set somebody straight even if they had it coming. I've seen too many
wrestlers...this is going back a few
years ago...that lost a lot of money... to buy a lot of Christmas presents
for your kids say...for the fun of
slapping someone that had it coming. So you can't do that and you have to
refrain from it even though its
very tempting to put somebody in their place...and it doesn't always
necessarily work out for you either.
Some people might have a lucky day out there and might just beat a wrestler.
CHET Do you, for example as a professional wrestler, in certain states have
to register your hands as
legitimate weapons?
BRET: I don't know about that, but I do know that anytime you're standing
front of a judge...you don't
stand a chance. You're always...and even if you're completely and totally
innocent...and the guy started
it and there are witnesses...you have to fly back to the state and defend
yourself and prove it...and the
cost of your airfare, your lawyer...it's a no win situation. You have
everything to lose and nothing to
gain...by defending myself...that's just a shame that...it's just the way
the system works...but I've been
fortunate over the years that when I do go out, I've generally been treated
with complete and total
respect by everybody I meet...maybe that's the way I come across on TV.
CHET: Let's talk about Bret Hart for a moment. I've always had this feeling
that the reason the
audience buys you is because no.1, you project an aura of cockiness when
you're in the ring...you project
a certain type of attitude which does befit the 1990s...but for example,
there's also a soft side to Bret
Hart taking off his sunglasses and giving it to a small child. If you were a
fan, how would you analyze
Bret Hat's personality as a wrestler?
BRET: Well I think it again comes down to those three things I talked about.
I think I look the part in a
sense that people can see that I'm not just somebody that you can throw
around. I'm certainly not the
biggest guy in wrestling...or the strongest or the youngest anymore...but I
think that I'm respected just
my size and my look and my physical capabilities. I think my interviews are
very very real...almost too
real...which came across last Monday on Raw how I almost...wrestling comes
very very real to me, and at
the same time I think just my wrestling ability...I mean, I know there's a
lot of people...in particular
there's a guy named...respected outside wrestling as an expert on
wrestling...a guy called Dave Meltzer,
who always refers to Shawn as the best worker...wrestler in the U.S.A. today
kind of thing. I totally
and completely dispute that. I don't think that he's anywhere... think the
only way you know that is to be
a wrestler...you can't be a fan and be able to judge who is a great wrestler
and who's not. To be a great
wrestler, you have to ask the great wrestlers. I believe that without a
doubt...without even
hesitating...not only in my heart...believe that I'm the best wrestler in
the world, and have been for
several years...but I think if you had to pick random wrestlers from any
organization and you said, well
who really is the best wrestler...I don't think there would be any
hesitation that it would be
me....because there's a lot of things that go along with being the best
wrestler...and certainly one of the
more interesting things that I'm proud of in wrestling...is that I've been
wrestling 18 going on 19 years
and I've never really hurt anybody...I've never really ended anyone's
career. I mean, it's a very
physical and brutal job in a lot of ways...but there's nobody that can say
that I stopped him from
making a living...and that takes an incredible amount of skill and ability.
CHET: Titan Sports, the parent company of the WWF has lost a great deal of
talent over the last
couple of years to Ted Turner, Eric Bischoff and WCW. Now the very obvious
question...why hasn't a
Bret Hart made the jump. I'm sure they've made you an offer.
BRET: Well I almost did. I guess I finally decided that...I look back where
I started...my roots in
wrestling...in essence...Vince McMahon was the guy that gave me my first
real break in wrestling.
CHET: Before you met Vince, were you basically wrestling for peanuts?
BRET: Yeah. Pretty much. The only real money I made was going to Japan. I
worked for my father,
which is like the worst thing you want to do when you're getting paid
[laughs]...but Ah Vince...and I did
very well...and I worked hard for everything I got from Vince McMahon...but
when it came down right
to it, when the WCW approached me about coming in...I was free to go either
way, and they made me an
incredible offer...and they dealt with me in a real nice straight up fashion
as did Vince....and it came
down to...I can make more money going for these guys...considerable amount
more money....or I can stay
with Vince McMahon and the WWF...and I've said it before and I'll say it
again...I'm really not so much
greedy for money as I am for respect...and I put loyalty and all that in
front of the dollar.
CHET: Hasn't this sport already comfortably made a Bret Hart a millionaire?
Couldn't you walk away
today and either play golf or watch the grass grow for the rest of your life?
BRET: I think so. I still have some thin I want to accomplish still.
CHET: What is next on the agenda after you leave wrestling?
BRET: Oh I don't know. I think you might find me parked on some beach with a
big beer belly...a case of
six pack of beer [laughing]...I don't know. I'd like to possibly write a
book about what's been a very
interesting career for me. I'd like to, almost try to explain more clearly
what it is that I do. I think a
lot of people have a misinterpretation...and I thin k a lot of people had a
fixed impression of what
wrestling is...when in fact, the so called experts that think they
understand wrestling...these wrestling
experts out there that write these sheets...they have no idea what wrestling
is. I almost wish I could
open their eyes to what it really is...maybe some day I'll be able to take
the time to do that.
CHET: When the so-called legit press......when they knock profession
wrestling...do you take that
personally.
BRET: Yeah. After a while you do...because they totally...they don't realize
that in fact it's sort of a
stage...a very plain basic stage...wrestling is basically a morality
play...you have very little in the way of
props...you might have a manager or a cane or something...but you got a
ref...two athletes in skimpy clad
clothing that are going to go in there...for example, myself and Shawn
Michaels can go in there for an
hour at last year's WM...and I think the story we told in the battle, and
the contest that we told was
every bit as good as any Die Hard 3 or any movie, or... wrestlers...I've
said it before and I'll say it
again...we don't get credit for being great athletes...when in fact we might
be the best of both of them.
We certainly act with our bodies and our minds...and we speak and sell
ourselves in these little...which
really amounts to 30 or 40 second commercial, and it's a very unique
profession. Nobody understands
how much work goes into a match...and how much imagination. I've created so
many things in wrestling
matches that nobody thought of before, and I think again...there's another
aspect that isn't
realized...everyone has though of everything in wrestling...there's nothing
left...everything has been done
kind of thing...and then every once in a while someone will come up with
something that nobody has seen
before. That to me is such a great thing. I appreciate when I see
something...and I go...I've never seen
that before.
CHET: Ted Dibiase...the so called Million Dollar Man...former WWF employee
once again with Ted
Turner and WCW...I saw him quoted recently as saying that the WWF now relies
too much on sex to sell
their product.
BRET: It was kind of concern of mine for a little bit. 'Cause again, I have
kids that watch wrestling, but
I think maybe they tend to overdo it sometimes...but I don't think that
there's anything wrong with it as
long as they don't overdo it. I mean, I think Sunny for example, was pretty
readily accepted by the
male wrestling audience. Now they have Sunny, Sable, Marlena and even my
sister Diana for that matter.
You got to be like WHOA! Let's get back to what it really is...let's get
back to masculinity of
wrestling...the rugged battle...contests. I think that they have. You
generally try to work with whatever
is working.
CALLER: What do you think about the really noticeable size increases in a
lot of WCW wrestlers, like
Scott Steiner for instance.
BRET: What was the question?
CHET: He's talking about noticeable size increases with WCW wrestlers. The
implications seems to be
the obvious...steroid use.
BRET: Well, I don't know. I'd be the last one in the world to say anything
bad about he Stieners. I
don't watch the WCW. I don't ever see it to be honest with you...it's not on
in Canada, which is the only
time I ever got to watch TV, and ah I couldn't tell you...I don't know.
CHET: Ok Mr. Hart...get ready, you're got 40 seconds. Tell me why WM will
probably eclipse the
second coming when written history is completely and fully documented.
BRET: Well, I can only...I always look at it from myself. This incredible
amount of friction between SC
and myself...it's going to be a real dogfight. I'd like to think that I'm as
tough as I ever was, and I'm
looking forward to this grueling battle....but I will say this much about
SCSA...that he's an excellent
wrestler and he's a tough guy...and I got an infinite amount of
respect...it's going to be a hard fight and
for any of those people who want to see a real struggle and a real
fight...and a real tough contest which
you don't always see in wrestling sometimes...this is a case of the two
pitbulls in wrestling
period...anywhere...actually fighting off and facing off with each
other...and I'll personally be happy
when it's all over with...and SC ill not have such a easy time as he did
with you at arm wrestling [SCSA
and Chet playfully arm wrestled when SC appeared on the show last week].
CHET: Vince McMahon gave this to me about two years ago on this program. He
says, don't rap the
Undertaker...don't kid about the Undertaker...don't take him
seriously...he's so far off the charts that
you really can't look at him from a realistic perspective. You buy that?
BRET: Maybe...
CHET: I mean he is rather unorthodox [laughing]
BRET: He's limited on account of that. I think actually underneath is an
excellent wrestler that almost
needs to shed that persona...
CHET: Really?
BRET: He's been trapped in a character that was probably more designed for
kids a long time ago, and
it's time for him to shed that and be a man like the rest of us. Dory Funk
was my favorite wrestler of
all time.
CHET: I would go with two individuals from the modern era...Bret Hart and
Randy Savage. Two prolific
workers.
