Aug 05, 13:54 1998
To: Froccer
From: Lindharin
Hi,
> Thanks for your timely response. I have included my comments under
> yours. I have not included the previous comments I had made in the
> email that this was in response to. If anything appears confusing, don't
> hesitate to inquire further.
Ditto! :)
> At first, your example was somewhat confusing (switching contexts from
> normal weapons to rail guns), but I believe I understand now.
Whoops, sorry. FYI, you did correctly figure out what I meant, though.
> From what I understand, you surmise that a rail gun should be allowed to have a
Unless you also allow the boom gun, something which normally is a single
> Considering that you are shooting 400 rounds (40 round short burst x 10 ammo) that are
And I think it is a big price, too, which will help keep it from being
> All, in all, I think that this would be a good rule change. Just think!
:)
> Four attacks seems a little extreme. I think that three attacks is a
Ah, this is another point where our rules interpretations are a little
> I think I am a little off topic here, so I will conclude this section by
Agreed.
> I think your assessment of the Juicer is pretty accurate. There is at
I'd love to hear how it goes.
> I like the system, because when your armour is penatrated, it does not
Ooh, I hadn't even looked at it that way. I like it! :)
> No, I totally agree. In fact, I think there is a table in the RIFTS
I'd like to see it when you're finished, or even before. :)
> We are discussing this currently. So far the armour breakdown is as
And that MDC is all in addition to the main body MDC, right?
> The discussions are ongoing, so I don't know if it is going to be
That sounds good except for one thing. Since any natural die roll of 12+
> >Is it worth adding a 5th damage category?
Agreed.
> Projectile Weapons: Rail guns.
Agreed. As an aside, would there be any SN projectile weapons? Normal guns
> Energy Weapons: Particle accelerator weapons, and high powered or heavy
Agreed about the heavy weapons. Should all particle accelerator weapons
> Explosives: Anti-vehicle mines, anything bigger than a mini-missle
Would it make mini-missiles too ineffective against tank-like targets,
> >Would standard body armor protect against them normally, or
I agree with this. Although we may want to play with the damage modifier.
> I also think that maybe vehicle armor should offer better protection
I'd want to be careful here. ASN armor definitely would take no damage from
> The only problem would be that now supernatural creatures would have a
It would give the supernatural critter a reason to use a weapon, which is a
> Of course, this is your base system, so you would know how you wanted it
I appreciate the brainstorming. :) I think there is a lot to recommend
Actually, though, I just remembered something. I do have a rough draft of
Have a good afternoon!
> more elevated rate of fire. By using x10 more ammo, the weapon's damage
> code would be elevated to
>
> There are a couple of drawbacks to this (both of which I think are
> acceptable). The first is that rail guns can now do a LOT of damage.
> A SAMAS railgun for example will now be able to do damage comparable to
> a boom gun (1d4 x 10 x 5 (or x3.5) = lots of MDC).
shot weapon, to do a short burst for x2 damage but x3 ammo. It is similar
to a semi-automatic pistol, which only fires once per pull on the trigger,
but you can fire three rounds in a short burst for x2 damage. Maybe the
boom gun can do the same. Of course, that is just totally disgusting
damage, but it is one possible consequence of the rules mods I'm making.
Since I don't have any Glitter Boys either, I hadn't given it much thought.
:(
> the size of cigars and moving at an extreme velocity, I think that
> amount of damage is appropriate. The second drawback is that railguns
> use a LOT of ammo. In the SAMAS example, the unit carries a 2000 round
> drum. That is only 5 extended bursts. However, that is the price for the
> amount of damage you are doing.
abused. If it takes forever (in combat terms) to reload the big guns, then
you really need to think before trying the long bursts. And if you get
unlucky and roll a 3 on your strike, you've just wasted 20% of your ammo.
> Now a battle between two SAMAS units won't have to take over four combat
> rounds to complete (SAMAS has 250 MDC, the railguns only do 40 MDC max.
> damage). Also, a SAMAS unit can strafe ground troops, and actually kill
> somebody! Amazing!
> better compromise. If you consider that the conventional character has
> three attacks at first level (hand-to-hand + boxing), then it seems more
> reasonable to make the burst only take up the 3 attacks. This means that
> conventional first level characters will be able to do a full clip
> burst, and those that have four+ attacks will at least be able to do a
> full clip burst and some other actions (like dodging).
different. Palladium has fluctuated back and forth from rule book to rule
book about whether a first level character just gets 2 attacks from their
hand-to-hand training, or gets 2 attacks plus 2 more from hand-to-hand
training. Per the Palladium web site, under their Oops page, I'm using the
later rule. So my first level characters have 4 actions plus any bonuses
from boxing, etc. I decided to use 4 actions for a burst for the same
reason you like 3 actions - it means they have to spend the whole round
doing it, unless they have enough training and/or experience to have extra
actions.
> saying that the Juicer is significantly tougher with your system.
> Whether this is unbalancing or not remains to be seen.
> least one Juicer in the party whenever I play, so maybe I will be able
> to better asses this in the future.
> automatically mean that you die. You may get severly injured though, and
> I think that is way more realistic.
>
> I also like it, because (as you have pointed out) a energy rifle will
> probably kill you; but it is not guaranteed. Also note that you can
> now go into negative hit points, which means that you can be revived if
> healed quick enough (also more realistic).
> Conversion book that tells you what minuses you get for being hit in a
> certain location (arm, leg, vital organ, etc ...). When damage gets
> through the armor, maybe it should be determined at that point what part
> of you is hit (I am working on a hit location scheme with my group right
> now, but it will likely take more time).
> follows:
>
> Head: 1/3 to 1/4 MDC of the Main body
> Arms: 1/4 to 1/5 MDC of the Main body
> Legs: 1/3 to 1/4 MDC of the Main body
> Hands/Feet: 1/10 MDC of the Main body
> implemented.
>
> The trick will be that you have to roll a natural 12, it has to be a
> called shot, you get a penalty of -3 to -6 on the roll, and a miss is a
> total miss (doesn't hit the main body, as per regular called shot
> rules).
will be enough to hit even after the -3 to -6 penalty, the natural die roll
is the controlling factor. A 10th level guy with a rifle and laser scope
still can't make the called shot any better than the 1st level guy with a
pistol, since 11 times out of 20 they will both miss. The skill bonus of
the experienced person can't help. Actually, that is not quite true,
because the skill bonus from the 10th level guy will increase the final
strike roll and make it harder to dodge, but if they are just firing at an
unsuspecting target, say from an ambush, the 1st level guy is just as likely
to succeed. You may want to add a clause that says in the heat and hectic
movement of a combat, a natural 12 is needed and extra bonuses just make it
harder to dodge, but if you are making a called shot in a static environment
(target shooting, first shot of an ambush, assassination, etc) then the
total just needs to be 12, not the natural die roll. Just a thought...
>
> I think that it might be. How about ASN (Advanced Supernatural). It
> would be damage from heavy weapons or, in the case of supernatural
> beings, damage that would not normally be accessible to those beings
> (such as supernatural creature with a weapon).
>
> >If so, we need to think through some of the implications. What weapons would
> >do damage in the 5th category?
>
> Melee Weapons: Supernatural PS with melee weapon, and Supernatural Power
> Punch.
are SH, if rail guns become ASN, is there a middle ground?
> energy weapons (such as those found on tanks).
count as ASN? Are there any "small" particle accelerators? I'm not that
familiar with the range of weapons in all the Rifts supplements.
though? Should SN be just hand grenade type weapons, and ASN could be
mini-missiles and up?
> >would those weapons always do damage to someone in ex-MD body armor?
>
> I am unsure about this section. I was kind of thinking that it would be
> like a modern type of armor against a SN source of damage. LTE AR would
> mean that it would take the standard damage and x1/2 to the wearer. GTE
> AR, well, adios amigo. It would be like the analogy of going into a
> modern battle, and getting hit by a tank shell. Not pretty.
Considering that high-tech super weapons do have higher damage ratings
already, and they can be bursted for even more damage, doing a x1/2 even
when the strike roll is under AR may be too deadly in Rifts. I'm mostly
gaming in the Heroes Unlimited setting at the moment, so I don't have a good
feel for it. What do you think?
> than body armour (the flip side of ASN). It would be normal for this
> type of armour to take an ASN source of damage, but against SN, it would
> only take x1/2 damage.
SH attacks. But if they take only 1/2 damage from SN attacks AND have lots
more SDC, they may be too tough. Except against another tank of course.
Now, that is probably realistic. But does it take away from the adventure
of the game setting? Does it force the players to become an armored brigade
in order to survive?
> harder time to defeat the high-tech monstrosities. Ha! I can just see a
> gargoylite trying to knaw off the leg a UAR-1 Enforcer. I don't know if
> this would be accurate, but I think it would chip a tooth before it
> would be able to penatrate the armour.
good thing in my opinion.
> to work. Just throwing some stuff in the air, and seeing where it lands.
adding a 5th category, but I'm a little concerned about it being balanced
for game play if the tanks both have tons of SDC and also take just a
fraction of the damage from hand weapons. Keep in mind that, as I've got it
now, any MDC item is doubled when it is translated to SDC, so the big 'bots
will already have an average of 700 to 1000 SDC, and up to 1400 SDC for the
Glitter Boy. It already takes a lot of rifle fire to really harm them.
the AR rules for power armor and mecha type things, and that changes it
around a lot. I mentioned it in the MDC replacement web page, but didn't go
into details. The idea is that tank-like things would still have an AR,
just like body armor. However, strike rolls exceeding the AR doesn't mean
the attack does damage to the pilot, it means that some interior function of
the vehicle got damaged. Maybe it slows down or stops a leg or arm from
moving, or takes out a sensor, or ruptures the cable that provides power for
a weapon, or damages the power core and slows / weakens the whole 'bot. If
those rules are used, then it is not a problem to have ASN armor take only
half damage from SN attacks, even if the tank has a 1000 SDC, because it
SHOULD be difficult for a laser rifle to bodily destroy the mecha. However,
a laser rifle could still, potentially, stop it without destroying it by
getting in some good shots and taking out some of its internal workings.
That would preserve some of the play balance and keep the game from just
turning into giant robot wars. What do you think about that idea?
Lindharin