Jul 14 10:01 1998
To: Dan
Copy to: Jerm
Copy to: Jert
From: Froccer
Subject: re:Phase in Combat
In message "Phase in Combat", Dan writes:
> With the original system it is flawed, we all agree on that.
>
Yep.
> The next system allows a character with autododge wanting to role a low init
> and clean up the place when no one has any attacks. Flawed.
>
That is not totally correct, Dan. If you recall the message I sent out on
July 10 in this email:
Subject: re:Initative and attacks
You will recall that I suggested that characters who roll too low on initiative
will lose some of their attacks (e.g. a guy with 7 attacks only rolling a 5
for initiative will lose two attacks: real sucky for a guy with autododge).
I do agree however that there is room for improvement. I guy with autododge
rolling sufficiently high to keep all his attacks and sufficiently low to keep
from losing any of them will have an advantage as you have pointed out.
I hope to fully explain my solution to the problem below.
> We were thinking of incorporating a limit to attacks (2 or 3) but the
> question is how? I suggested time but Sean felt it was too complicated and
> confusing. So how about the second system with a restriction stating you
> can't have more that 2 attacks in a row? You can have other actions or
> defer for defensive reasons but no attacks. That way if you have alot of
> attacks you want a high init.
>
> Problem with this system is I have 6 attacks and I'm fighting someone with
> one I'll have to sack 2 attacks at least, more if he roles really high.
>
> Can anyone think of a better system????? I'm stuck, I'm running out of
> ideas other than to abolish the whole thing and develope some other system.
> Am I talking about the senate or initative.
>
> Dan
I can fully appreciate your frustration, Dan. I have been trying to find a
better initiative system for a long time now, without much success. It is hard
to find a better system to a system in place that has so many fundamental flaws.
I therefore wish to put forth a potentially contraversial rule change.
I propose that we adopt a "constant dodge" rule. It states that whenever you
declare a dodge, you are considered dodging until your next combat phase.
How does it work?
At any time during combat round, you may spend an action declaring that you are
dodging. You roll to dodge, adding any modifiers that are appropriate (most
likely your dodge bonus). This is now how well you are dodging until your next
available action. Anybody trying to hit you, has to roll against that dodge roll.
What does it mean?
In basic terms, this means that I have decided that I don't want to get shot.
So, I am going to get the hell out of dodge (ouch, sorry) and try to avoid
the shots that are coming towards me. To do this, I am going to be ducking /
rolling and moving in a random direction (note that this will not be like the
Juicer's dodge where he is avoiding laser blasts in a "Bugs Bunny" like fashion
where he is dodging Elmur Fudd's shotgun blasts by flatening his ears, lifting
one of his arms, curving his body to a horseshoe shape, etc ...). So anybody
that is now trying to hit you is making more difficult shots because they are
now trying to hit a moving target that is intent on getting out of the way of
their shots.
Here is an example:
My special forces guy without his SAMAS is in a very dispicable situation. He
is only in body armor which means that any shot has the potential to kill him.
He is in a battle where there are a bunch of guys that want him dead. Is he
going to stick around and try to duke it out with them? I don't think so. He
is going to head for the nearest Glitterboy depository at a maximum rate of
speed and will try to dodge the shots that are coming at him. The first shot
in the round is made against him. My guy decides to run away dodging. My guy
rolls a measly 8 (with a +12 to dodge gives him 20). The guy that shot at him
rolled a 12 with modifiers: miss. The next guys take their shots trying to
correctly interpret where my guy is going to be ducking to next. They get 7, 14,
19, 15, and 22 modified rolls to hit. Ouch! The guy with the 22 hits me and
does damage. I luckily survive the first phases of combat (assuming that all
initiative rolls were proportionately high). The first guys next phase of
combat occurs and we go through the same thing again. This time I roll a 2 to
dodge. Oh shit. This gives me a 14 dodge number. The others role to hit and
get 14, 15, 3, 10, 21, and 18. My guy is now riddled with holes and will be
fertilizer for the next generation of plants that decides to use my body as a
flower bed.
How does this help me if a Juicer is about to beat me down with a bunch of
his attacks, Sean?
Good question! Well, with the new delay rule that we can implent, this will
mean that you can delay your action until the end of the round. When the time
comes that somebody is shotting at you, you spend your action to dodge until the
end of the round. So when mister juicer with 7 initiative and 7 attacks rolls
around. He still gets to make 7 shots at you without you being able to respond,
but you can still try and get the hell out of the way with one roll (just make
sure you don't role *censored*).
How does this rule apply to Juicers, Sean?
I am glad you asked that question, because it is a good one as well. The juicer
Is this realistic? Does it make sense?
Sure! Think about an old western where there are a bunch of guys shooting back
From my point of view, there is only one minor flaw with this system. This is
In summary, I propose that the basic combat phase initiative system be
What do you guys think?
Froccer
will be able to decide which method he is going to adopt. He can either use
his automatic dodge or his automatic constant dodge. The former case is the
basic system we all know and love. The second system will be this analogy ("I
don't care that I have an automatic dodge to separate attacks; I'm going to
put my arms over my head and head for cover!
dodge roll until his next attack. Note that the constant dodge will be an
automatic dodge situation, so he will not have to spend an action like other
characters.
and forth. The good guy shoots his shots (killing a bunch of bad guys) and then
gets out of the way from the multitude of shots from the bloodthirsty band of
vagabonds that are trying to kidnap the local school marm. Now in a Rifts
setting this would be impossible, because the good guy with six attacks could
not possibly dodge the attacks from the seven gunmen shooting at him (not that
I am saying that movies in any way reflect real life). It just makes more
sense that a moving target is harder to hit than one that is basically standing
still.
that a guy in SAMAS will be very hard to hit if he decides to use his constant
dodge. This is realatively minor compared to the current list of problems we
have, and can easily backfire on the guy if he rolls *censored*.
implemented, and that the constant dodge and delay rules also be implemented to
offset the possible side affects of lop-sided or irregular initiative rolls.