Jul 16 09:23 1998

To: Jert

Copy to: Jerm
Copy to: Dan

From: Froccer

Subject: re:Armour MD by location

In message "Armour MD by location", Jerm writes:

>
> Well, I guess my last mails didn't go through. I don't really have time
> to repeat everything I had in them, but I think I'll just add my thoughts
> on the item of Armour MD by location.
>
> The way I see it, the head of a suit of body armour should have exactly
> the same amount of damage as the rest of the suit affords. For starters,
> this eliminates the 'single-shot call to the head' kills against NPC's;
> and I would think that if you can kill someone with a single shot to the
> head, every grunt with coalition military training is going to be calling
> their shots at your head - making for an insanly high character turnover
> rate.
>

Actually, I will choose to disagree with you on this one. Single shot kills
will be difficult even if you are aiming for the head every time. A typical
suit will have 70 MDC (for heavy armor). This means that the helmet will
typically have 14 MDC. For a typical energy rifle (3d6), you will only do
an average of 10 MDC (you can only fire an aimed shot at someone's head).
Also, as per previous emails, you need a natural 12 to hit the head so that you
will miss over 50% of the time.

> The argument I keep hearing about the helmet having less MDC because it
> doesn't have close to the same amount of material as the rest of the body
> simply doesn't stand. I understand Dan's comparisons to today's Kevlar
> suits, but Rifts body armour is not one of today's kevlar suits. Nor does
> it even compare with the 'science' of today's military uniforms.
>
> The majority of the body armour described in the Rifts books is
> polycarbonates or other high-tech materials; and some of them specifically
> describe how they are molecularly engineered with new Rifts Earth
> technology. It is the molecular engineering; and not the amount of
> material in the suit that provides the protection. I don't care how many
> of today's kevlar suits you dress yourself in . . . no matter how thick
> the padding is, you are not going to be able to survive a MD Energy Rifle
> burst which could normally level a city building.

While this is true, you are forgetting about the fundamentals of combat. I
agree that a MD Energy Rifle will tear through multiple kevlar vests (1 MDC
will be equal to 100 SDC). But MDC combat armor is to kevlar, what MDC rifles
are to conventional rifles. In other words, a MDC rifle will probably defeat a
stack of SDC vests, but a convential rifle will find it increasingly hard to
defeat higher numbers of those same vests. Just the same, you won't be able
to shoot through a stack of MDC body armor. With your rationalization, they
are the same material, so you should be able to destroy all the body armor with
the same shot. This seems a little riduculous to me.

> And when the ENTIRE
> SUIT of crusader armour only weighs 11 pounds (helmet included) there
> can't be a hell of alot of material there.

My point exactly. There is very little material in the helmet.

> A 55MD helmet would NOT make
> the head top heavy - It's the same polycarbonate material shaped around a
> different mold.

I disagree. 55 MD helmet WOULD make the helmet top heavy (as per my previous
emails). It is the same material, but more of it would be there.

> If anything, one may be able to argue that the helmet
> visor itself may afford less protection . . . but if they can create MDC
> windows and visors that are self-tinting depending on the amount of light
> around you; I'm sure that they can extend this technology to make the
> visors as strong as the rest of the suit. If not, then once again every
> grunt you come up against is going to be shooting at your visor.
>

The visor itself would be an argument for the head having less MDC than the
main body.

Remember that you need a natural 12 to hit the head (you also get a -3 to hit
the head as per any description of power armor will tell you). Therefore you are
missing over 50% of the time, and when you miss the head, it is now counted as
a total miss (no dmg. done to the main body).

> I don't agree with the argument that a Samas suit head (or any other power
> armour) has typically 15-25% of the regular body MDC, and thus the
> same should exist for body armour. Why? Because power armour and body
> armour simply don't compare. They're two different (although somewhat
> related in theory) technologies.

I disagree. They are very similar technologies. They use the same fundamentals
in their manufacturing. They use the same materials (but they have more MDC
because they have more material in them; hence they are heavier and need
robotics to move them around). They both have total environmental protection,
etc ... etc ...

> In the case of Power Armour, which is
> mechanicalized and motorized, weight is not a problem, and you can
> probably extend the molecular engineering theory to different, thicker,
> heavier materials or polycarbonates, thus allowing the much larger damage
> capacities.
>

I disagree. I think they use the same material, but more of it there to increase
its mega damage capacity. Your assertion that heavier materials is being used
may be correct, but that would indicate that they are denser. Hence, the amount
of material is increased, but is contained in a smaller area.

> Thus, I believe all body armour (head, arms, legs, etc) has the same
> rating as the main body rating. This does not eliminate called shots as
> Dan argued, since called shots can be used to kill an opponent while
> causeing minimal damage to his armour (which you may be trying to
> salvage.)
> I think the whole reason called shots were included in the game
> is to disable or destroy specific systems on power armour and vehicles;
> not so you can shoot the next guy in the head.
>

I disagree with that assumtion as well. If you look closely in the front section
of the first Rifts Sourcebook, you will find a section dealing with this exact
subject. In this section, it describes what happens when a particular part
is reduced to zero MDC. I distincly remeber it saying that when the head is
reduced to zero, the rest of the blast gets through and kills the guy inside.

> If you still don't agree with me, look in the Rifts Manual. Compare the
> Samas helmet (with 50/70 MD - I can't remember off the top of my head)
> with the other standard Coalition helmets (for body armour). That Samas
> head looks an awful lot like a standard officer helmet . . .
>

OK, I still don't agree with you. Why should a heavy dead boy helmet have more
MDC than a SAMAS helmet? Did the coalition decide that they would rather have an
alive grunt rather than an alive SAMAS unit?

> Talk to you later
>
> Jert.

Froccer