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Expulsion An UMNO tradition
Interview ASIAWEEK talks with Anwar Ibrahim
Stocks Pumping up the bourse
ASEAN Life without Anwar
ABDUL GHAFAR BABA SERVED as
deputy PM for seven years until he was forced to withdraw in the face of
a looming wipeout by Anwar Ibrahim in UMNO elections in 1993. Earlier this
year Ghafar, a country boy made good, returned to the limelight when he
volunteered to explain the government's economic policies to rural folks.
He became the first UMNO leader to openly attack Anwar as a "foreign agent"
just days before he was sacked. Indeed, Ghafar, 73, has become an unofficially
official spokesman on a variety of issues. He talked to Asiaweek's Assif
Shameen. Excerpts:
Was Anwar's sacking too hasty?
It is true that Anwar has not yet been charged or convicted and is innocent until proven guilty. But you must remember that it is the prerogative of the prime minister to appoint and dismiss his deputy. UMNO's constitution says that members must behave themselves and not blacken the name of the party. Anwar was asked to resign but he refused. The Supreme Council cannot sack a deputy president. Only the party general assembly can, and that by at least two-thirds majority. But the Supreme Council can sack a member. Anwar was sacked as a member. Because he is no longer a member he can no longer be deputy president.
Will UMNO members believe the allegations, given that the PM has only said Anwar was "unsuitable"?
The prime minister is going around explaining the reason to party leaders. Mahathir convinced the Supreme Council that he had enough evidence, which is why they voted to sack him. The people believe that Mahathir has taken the right decision and they trust his judgment. I don't think the sacking will divide the Malay community. I meet grassroots people every day, and I know they back Mahathir and UMNO and that Anwar doesn't have any support. Anwar may well form a new group but he will fail because the majority of Malays are with UMNO.
But UMNO recently lost a parliamentary by-election.
That was due to local factors. It was just one seat in one state, not a reflection of UMNO's national popularity. In general elections UMNO will do better because people will focus on national issues, like how much Mahathir has done to revive the economy. We will still have a big-enough majority. Malaysians want political stability, which Mahathir and UMNO provide.
Is there any lesson Malaysia can draw from Indonesia?
Yes. If you subvert the leaders the economy becomes worse. Suharto has gone but Indonesians are poorer, not richer. Anwar has tried to copy the idea by trying to pull down the leader and derail economic recovery. He was getting help from foreign collaborators. Wait until Anwar's trial. Everything will come out on how he received help and how foreign powers were trying to push out Mahathir after their success in Indonesia.
What foreign powers are involved?
Some of the ambassadors have asked point-blank: When will Mahathir step down? Why doesn't he hand over to Anwar so that he can revive the economy? Some, like the U.S. ambassador, have been very provocative. When Anwar went to Washington he was given red-carpet treatment, as if he were already PM. These are signals. We may not have concrete proof that a certain Western power wanted to put its puppet Anwar in place, but we Malaysians are not stupid.
