Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:14:10 -0400 From: AdmrlLocke@aol.com Subject: Gramm on Brinkley, 5/5/96 GrammNet Issue 5/5/96.1 Dear Friend of Phil Gramm, Gramm was on This Week With David Brinkley this past Sunday, discussing his proposal to repeal Clinton's 1993 4.3 cent gas tax hike. The excerpt from Brinkley containing Gramm's interview follows below. Incidentally, it was interesting to watch Rubin's interview, which followed the interview of Gramm. Rubin dodged and weaved and refused to answer a SINLGE question put to him. Even the liberal trio--Sam Donaldson, Kokie Roberts, and David Brinkley himself-- obviously got angry at Rubin and kept challenging him to answer their questions. It's heartening to see liberal members of the media at odds with the Clinton disinformation specialists for a change. Gramm's proposal--which Dole, thank God, has taken up as his own--is an excellent counter to the Democrats' efforts to demagogue the minimum wage issue. Rather than "helping" unskilled workers by coercing employers into paying them more--and therefore, employing less of them--Gramm's proposal genuinely helps workers, and everyone else, by reducing the share of our income the government confiscates. It's nice to see that, even though he's out of the presidential race, Phil Gramm is still working to reduce government and restore our rights to life, liberty and property. Incidentally, I think Gramm's proposal doesn't go as far as it could: Why stop at repealing the 1993 gas tax hike? Why not repeal the 1990 gas tax hike of 5 cents, engineered by Dole and the Democrats, and opposed by Gramm? Obviously, it would be a political embarrassment for Dole. And speaking of Dole embarrassments . . . . Democrat leaders Monday admitted that they didn't have the votes to stop repeal of the gas tax. However, they're trying to play to moderate Republicans by linking the gas tax repeal to an increase in the jobs-destroying minimum wage. Since the Democrats don't have the votes to stop the repeal, there's no reason for Republicans to increase the coerced wage. The only reason that the Democrats can even hope to get a coerced wage increase is because the titular head of the GOP, Bob Dole, has signalled a willingness to look at raising the minimum wage. If Dole snatches defeat on the coerced wage from the jaws of Republican victory, it WILL be another embarrassment. Dole should be ashamed of even CONSIDERING destroying hundreds of thousands of jobs for the poorest workers. Ronald Reagan never allowed that kind of nonsense. Incidentally, Gramm's graciousness in defeat--as evidence by his unwillingness to criticize Dole in the interview below, despite Dole's unethical campaign machinations against Gramm--demonstrates what a truly great man Gramm is. If Dole does beat Clinton, it will be in large part because of men like Phil Gramm, who are larger than Bob Dole even dreams of being. Sincerely, David B. Levenstam, CPA, MT, MA Gramm in 96! To subscribe to GrammNet, email me at AdmrlLocke@aol.com, with a message to the effect that you'd like to subscribe. PLEASE PUT "SUBSCRIBE GRAMMNET" ON THE SUBJECT LINE. -------------------------------------------------------- This Week With David Brinkley Sunday, May 5, 1996 Excerpt featuring Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX) BRINKLEY: Thanks very much for being with us and enlightening us on this subject. Thanks again. Coming next from one of our big oil states -- Senator Phil Gramm, Republican of Texas. In a moment. (BREAK) BRINKLEY: Here with us now Senator Phil Gramm in Texas, a Republican of Texas. And welcome, thank you for coming. GRAMM: Thank you, David. BRINKLEY: Nice to have you. The last time you were here you were running for president. Now you're running to cut... GRAMM: Life's easier now. (LAUGHTER) BRINKLEY: OK. You're running to cut the tax on gasoline, is that right? GRAMM: That's right. BRINKLEY: Well, you... GRAMM: Well, David, there are a lot of taxes if I could choose that I would rather cut than the gasoline tax. But when the average family in America is sending one out of every three dollars it earns to the government in taxes, whenever I get a chance to cut taxes I take it. And I've made the only proposal that has been made in the last three weeks that will actually bring prices down at the pump. If we repeal this 4.3 cent a gallon tax on gasoline, none of which is going to highway construction, we can bring the cost of filling up your tank on your truck, your van, or your car down by an average of about a dollar. BRINKLEY: Some of your colleagues in the Senate are terrified that if the tax is cut, it will benefit the oil companies. What do you say to that? GRAMM: Well, you know, I -- let me say this. First of all, anybody who knows enough about economics to fill up a thimble understands what is going on in the oil market now. Your previous guest, I thought, gave a very clear description, and there's something wrong in American when we have to try to find a scapegoat for every problem that occurs. GRAMM: And I think it's kind of unseemly that without giving a single thought, the president of the United States orders the attorney general to investigate a major industry in America with no evidence whatsoever to substantiate that anybody did or could have engaged in a conspiracy against the public. BRINKLEY: Well, he's... GRAMM: No one would ever think of doing that investigating the corn industry when corn prices are up. And I say that with safety since my state's a big corn producer. I think we need to deal with that we can control. A third of the price of gasoline is taxes. We can bring that down. BRINKLEY: Well, the president is, of course, running for re- election. You're aware of that. George? GRAMM: I'm out of politics so I can be pure on these things. BRINKLEY: You never get out. WILL: Senator Gramm, speaking of the unseemly, here we have the situation where if gasoline prices go up 15 cents a gallon, it will add five dollars to an 800-mile vacation trip taken by car. If the gas tax is cut, it will benefit the average -- by the 4.3 cents, it will benefit the average taxpayer and gas user $27 a year. What is wrong with the political system that it gets twisted out of shape by a triviality like this? GRAMM: I think what's wrong with it -- I think that people are ready to jump on any issue. George, as you probably know, I once wrote a book on the economics in mineral extraction. I was involved as an economist before I got into politics in mineral economics. I started watching gasoline prices about five weeks ago, and one of the reasons I came out with a gas tax proposal, which Senator Dole has taken and used -- and I support his use of it -- is that I thought it was a positive, concrete thing we could do that would benefit people. And again, I think when you get a chance to let working people keep more of what they earn, when you've got the kind of tax burden we have now, you ought to do it. But it was obvious to me that the Democrats were going to say it was some kind of conspiracy going on when the truth is a third of the price you're paying is taxes. And this new Clinton tax gas is not going to build highways, and it is a perfect candidate, it seems to me, to get rid of. WILL: Do you think it's likely that the repeal of the gas tax will be linked to an increase in the minimum wage, and if it is, would you vote for that package? GRAMM: I don't think the two issues ought to be co-mingled. I think, given the level of economic literacy, maybe I ought to just propose that we make the minimum wage a million dollars an hour. And then I could work an hour, George, you could work a week. We'd be satisfied. We'd be rich. We'd be happy. The problem, as you know, even if the president doesn't, is there's this trick in arithmetic. Anything times zero is zero, and at a million dollars an hour, no one would hire me. I don't know if anyone would hire you, and we'd both be broke and not rich. DONALDSON: Senator Gramm, the gas tax brings in what? About $5 billion a year? You've got to make that up, and you propose one way to make it up is to take legal immigrants in this country and give them fewer welfare benefits. Is that really fair? GRAMM: It's very fair. I don't want to invite people to come to America, Sam, with their hand out to go on welfare. That attracts the wrong kind of person. DONALDSON: But these are legal people in the country. I mean, what's the difference, in your mind, Senator, between someone who's here legally as an immigrant and a U.S. citizen? GRAMM: Well, the difference is that when people come to America, historically they've come with their sleeves rolled up to build their dream, to build the American dream. We have given them the greatest gift you can have in this world, and that is the right to become an American. And I think we have a right to ask people who come here to come here to work and not go on welfare. GRAMM: This is a very strongly supported proposal. It's been adopted by both houses of Congress. It will save about $14 billion a year if we, on a prospective basis, stop inviting people to come to America to go on welfare. What I was trying to do with all sets is take some that we've already agreed on. So the issue is the gas tax, not how we pay for it. DONALDSON: Well, Senator, the rationale -- you complimented our previous guest who seemed to say pretty directly that he thought President Clinton's moves were mainly political, that the gasoline price was going to moderate in the next month or so anyway. Is it fair to then ask you whether your move -- Senator Dole's move -- isn't equally just political? GRAMM: Well, look, everything is political. DONALDSON: OK. GRAMM: The question is, is it good policy? My point is going out, holding hearings, claiming conspiracies, engaging in investigations -- that's not going to do anything except feed cynicism, which is the last thing we need. Repealing the gasoline tax when we're clearly, at this point, probably not going to get the tax cuts that Americans had hoped for by agreeing to a budget, I think is something that ought to be done on its own merit. And when I get a chance to cut taxes on working people, I take it. It's clear, simple, and it's political, but it's also good policy. ROBERTS: Senator, the last thing I think that Senator Dole needs is more disunion within the Republican Party. But you now have the governor of Ohio, Mr. Voinovich, coming out against this cut in gas taxes saying that it will increase the deficit. And you have Senate Dole and Speaker Gingrich saying they might be for investigating the oil companies for collusion where, or price gouging, where you say you're against it. Are we going to have another Republican brawl here? GRAMM: Well, look, I think you can investigate whoever you want to, but I do think, Cokie, it tells you about the level of cynicism in our society when you've got public officials who accuse people of things without any evidence whatsoever. It seems to me the world I grew up in... ROBERTS: But I'm asking you about the dynamics inside the Republican Party. GRAMM: Aw, look. I don't see any problem here. I think we're united on the fact that this is a good opportunity to cut gasoline taxes. And before George used the figure about how much money it will save you in buying gas, but you do need to remember that gasoline and diesel prices are built into the price of groceries, the price of services... ROBERTS: Senator, what about the -- can I just... GRAMM: Pretty substantial amount of money. ROBERTS: I'm trying to ask you about the Republican Party here. How do you think, at this point, the nominee is doing, given all of the fights that seem to be going on? Is he going to be able to pull out of this 20-point behind slump? GRAMM: Well, first of all, you've got to realize this nominee defeated me in the primaries, and I have tried to avoid this natural proclivity that losers have to give winners advice. I think we're in this period where there is a lull in the campaign. GRAMM: I think it's fairly natural. I think as we get closer to the convention, as we begin to define what the vision of Bob Dole is and what he wants to do, I think the race is going to close. DONALDSON: Senator, could I just ask you a question about whether you agree with Alfonse D'Amato, the senator from New York, that Speaker Gingrich is part of Mr. Dole's problem, that Gingrich ought to butt out in some way? That's what D'Amato says. GRAMM: Let me say this, and my statement applies to D'Amato and to Buchanan and to myself. I think what we all need to do is to let Bob Dole speak for Bob Dole. I think it's time for people who ran, including Pat Buchanan, to sit down. This is going to be Bob Dole's campaign. It's going to be his convention, and I think we ought to all commit ourselves to trying to help him. BRINKLEY: Senator Gramm, thank you. Thanks very much for being with us today. Pleasure to have you.