Tay's
Response
To
Ambrose Ajax's

Ambrose,
Here are the errors on your site thus far, these are dealing with tenants of Wicca and things of Celtic/Gaelic nature. Do enjoy.

Wicca (sometimes called Wicce, The Craft, or The Old Religion by its practitioners) is an ancient religion of love for life and nature.

Wicca is �not' ancient, and it is a religion of self love and acceptance, basically self theism.

In prehistoric times,

Prehistoric denotes �pre history', which would mean, no one would have knowledge of this era other than knowledge of what bones of the various dinosaurs we can find, and what we can derive of their existence via these remains! Prehistoric??? Paleolithic perhaps, still this would not correlate to anything within the Wiccan venue simply because of the fact that �wicca' is a modern religion that came about in the late 50's.

From The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology
History - Story, tale; methodical narrative of events, branch of knowledge dealing with these XV; methodical account of natural phenomena XVI. - L. historia - Gr historia learning or knowing by inquiry, narrative, history, f. histor knowing, learned, wise man :- idtor, f *id know (see wit)

Prehistoric - XIX. -F. Prehistorique, see PRE-HISTORIC. Hence prehistory XIX.

people respected the great forces of nature and celebrated the cycles of the seasons and the moon. They saw divinity in the sun and moon, in the Earth Herself, and in all life. The creative energies of the universe were personified: feminine and masculine principles became Goddesses and Gods. These were not semi-abstract, superhuman figures set apart from nature: they were embodied in the earth and sky, women and men, and even plants and animals.

It has been proven again and again by great scholars such as Anne Ross, Barry Raftery, Bruce Lincoln, Seamus MacManus, Eugene O'Curry and the like, just to name a few.... that humans due to their acts of great passion and courage were also deified. As to your celebrations of the seasons and the moon, what have you that is concrete? What have you, that can be archeologically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? Although we know that they did carry out festivities in later centuries and we have writings that describe these events, before the 4th or 5thcentury, what have you other than some votive deposits, grave remains and a few ogham stones, pictographs/hieroglyphics here and there?

This viewpoint is still central to present-day Wicca. To most Wiccans, everything in nature--and all Goddesses and Gods--are true aspects of diety. The aspects most often celebrated in the the craft, however, are the Triple Goddess of the moon (who is Maiden, Mother, and Crone) and the Horned God of the wilds. These have many names in various cultures.

Of what culture would this moon worship of the Goddess be? Because you see, dependant upon the tribe and their locality, especially in the 6 original Celtic nations, the moon could be either masculine or feminine, the same follows suit with the sun. So how is yours to be so unified across the board no matter the aspects or type Wicca practiced? Does that make sense to you? See �Pagan Celtic Britain' by Anne Ross, �Death, War and Sacrifice' by Bruce Lincoln, �The Golden Bough' by Sir James George Frazer, �Pagan Celtic Ireland' by Barry Raftery, �Myths and Symbols in Pagan Europe' by H.R. Ellis Davidson .... heck, read the damn tales! Do you realize that 4 of your so-called Wiccan holidays are of pure CELTIC origin? You don't spell two of them correctly and you are completely off on the purposes of each and every one. The big four fire festivals are; Samhain (sow-en) Imbolc (im Olk), Bealtine (BEE al Tinn uh), and Lughnassadh/Lunasa (Llew nas sah), it has come to my attention that most Wiccans can't pronounce them correctly either, but don't take my word for it, get and Irish or Scots (Gaeilge/Gaelic) pronunciation dictionary and see for yourself.

Wicca had its organized beginnings in Paleolithic times, co-existing with other Pagan ("country") religions in Europe, and had a profound influence on early Christianity.

No, I am afraid it didn't. There was no wiccan religion in Europe and the word is of Scandinavian, Germanic, Norse, Old Saxon, Old Slavonic, later Anglo Saxon, Old high German origin and it's true meaning is to make weak or bend. Check an etymological dictionary. Practices that had a profound influence on early Christianity were Roman Paganism, and Indo-European Paganism, a little historical research with regard to the early church might do you worlds of good in refutation of your misnomer about the influence of wicca! For the GODS sakes would you please study some history rather than the new age works that you so lovingly quote on your site! Here is an URL for the Catholic Dictionary Online.... that would be a good starting point for you as far as the church is concerned. http://www.csn.net/advent/cathen/cathen.htm

But in the medieval period, tremendous persecution was directed against the Nature religions by the Roman Church. Over a span of 300 years, millions of men and women and many children were hanged, drowned or burned as accused "Witches." The Church indicted them for black magic and Satan worship, though in fact these were never a part of the Old Religion.

The number killed and the number of years gets larger and larger every time someone decides to put it in print yet again. Understand that most of those murdered were not witches my dear, most of them were simple midwives and healers who did better jobs than the physicians of that day and it was a political ploy by those same physicians to see them burned, hung, crushed or tortured as witches. If a woman was somewhat attractive and this instilled a fear in another woman or moved a man to commit the sin of fornication, they would have them brought to inquisition as witches. If they had money that the government of that country desired or if they were women who lived alone and had in their possession lands or homes that the government desired, they were persecuted as witches. You need to get a better grasp on your history my friend, and the torture methods they employed on these unsuspecting victims can be researched in the book Malleus Maelificarum, better known as �The Witches Hammer'. I can assure you, you will find no mention of Wiccans being burned at the stake in Europe!

The Wiccan faith went underground, to be practiced in small, secret groups called "covens." For the most part, it stayed hidden until very recent times. Now scholars such as Margaret Murray and Gerald Gardner have shed some light on the origins of the Craft, and new attitudes of religious freedom have allowed covens in some areas to risk becoming more open.

New �scholars' such as Margaret Murray and Gerald Gardner had other concerns when they shed the so called �new light' on the origins of the Craft. It is easy enough for the untrained, hobbyist, theologian to see where they stole eastern and western esoteric thought and blended the two to create a new religion. It is also easy to see where they stole from Crowley to add to their so called traditions, the Great Rite and some of the initiation ceremonies are �all' Crowley. Crowley sought to bring back the Templar's and I suggest that you study the Knights Templar in order to ascertain that which I am telling you to be true. Do the research for yourself. Look at the Masonic rites (The Scottish Rite) and see where your own tradition has stolen from that very straightforward initiation ritual. Understand that Murray and Gardner had ulterior motives, and those motives were prestige and money. Period. Check their resources and run down their bibliographies, see where they gathered their information from. Don't be spoonfed all this propaganda as truth. In short, don't be a sheep!

How do Wiccan folk practice their faith today? There is no central authority or doctrine, and individual covens vary a great deal.

To this I must ask..... doesn't this scream out to you that this lack of doctrine or central authority while I am sure it is appealing to those seeking religious freedom at first, doesn't it affirm for you the fact that this lack of unification in thought as well as study might lead to propaganda, proselytizing, perpetuation of falsehood for personal gain, megalomania among coven leaders, the list goes on and on... If your religion were truly a religion, it would have a set and unified doctrine because that's what �religion' means, an organized system of beliefs!

Again from the Oxford dictionary of English Etymology:
Religion - State of life (as of monks) bound by vows and a rule XII; religious order or rule' system of faith in and worship of a divine power XIII; recognition of a divine being to whom worship is due XVI. - (O)F. Religion - L. religio, -on- obligation (as of an oath), bond between man and the gods, scrupulousness, scruple(s), reverence for the gods; (in late L, From V) religious (monastic) life; of uncert. Orig. So religious bound by monastic vows; imbued with religion XIII, as sg. XVI. - OF. religious (mod. -ieux) -L. Religiousus. Religiosity XIV. -L.

But most meet to celebrate on nights of the Full Moon, and at 8 great festivals or Sabbats throughout the year.

And you don't truly understand why or for what these observances are carried out, and I find that sad!

Though some practice alone or with only their families, many Wiccans are organized into covens of 3 to 13 members. Some are led by a High Priestess or Priest, many by a Priestess/Priest team; others rotate or share leadership. Some covens are highly structured and hierarchical, while others may be informal and egalitarian. Often extensive training is required before initiation, and coven membership is considered an important commitment.

If you are so freely given to worship, did you not question �why' you are led by priests and priestesses? Can you not meditate the gods of your own accord? And Why 3 to 13? Possibly due to the original calendar of 13 months in a year? And if 3, why did you not correlate the three to refute your need for 4 quarters or 4 main elements, rather than the 3 of the Celtic world of Land, Sea and Sky??? and as to why you must have 3 to 13 for a coven to be, is your worry that one will not have the ability to carry forward without at least two cohorts? And if one year per grade put forth in study from such materials to be found as lacking in academic structure as BOS's or new age guru manifestations is commitment to learning, yours is surly a dying cause due to lack of care and fostering!

There are many branches or "traditions" of Wicca in the United States and elsewhere, such as the Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Welsh Traditional, Dianic, Feary, Seax-Wicca and others. All adhere to a code of ethics. None engage in the disreputible practices of some modern "cults," such as isolating and brainwashing, lonely young people. Genuine Wiccans welcome sisters and brothers, but NOT disciples, followers or victims.

Oh sure you do practice such isolation and brainwashing, your failure to see the truth of the histories you proclaim to ascribe to, is ample evidence of your brainwashing. The common practice of throwing coven sisters and brothers out of covens due to their failure to agree upon certain �truths' of the coven, and assuming the position of heightening their own knowledge outside the coven, is evidence of the whole practice's means to isolate and discriminate. This is much akin to the Christian teaching of accept on �faith' and do not question the Lord's word. And how can you say �none' engage in these disreputable practices? Are we to take on faith that you have spoken with each and every coven in the world and have complete knowledge of their practices and policies? Please, give us some credit here Ambrose.

Coven meetings include ritual, celebration and magick (the "k" is to distinguish it from stage illusions.)

The very fact that you swallowed that line of garbage put forth by the creators of Wicca is fascinating. The �K' in Magick denotes that the practices of that form of magic are based in Kabalistic/Cabalistic working. The difference between stage magic and true magic is that stage magic, is illusionary science, while magic is natural, not good nor evil but neutral.

Wiccan magick is not at all like the instant "special effects" of cartoon shows or fantasy novels, nor medieval demonology; it operates in harmony with natural laws and is usually less spectacular--though effective.

Can you prove this last statement? (Though effective?) If not, then don't assert it to be so, simply end with less spectacular.

Various techniques are used to heal people and animals, seek guidance, or improve members' lives in specific ways. Positive goals are sought: cursing and "evil spells" are repugnant to practitioners of the Old Religion.

That you consider the effects of good or evil, shows in and of itself that you do not understand either magic or the natural world. The universe knows no good or evil, no black or white, no light or dark, it rather relates to the necessary, that which it uses to render balance. Destruction must occur for creation to manifest. There is no evil nor good in that statement, simply necessity.

Wiccans tend to be strong supporters of environmental protection, equal rights, lobal peace and religious freedom, and sometimes magick is used toward such goals.

Wiccans �want' to be strong supporters of the above philosophies. The reason that they aren't making a dent by their efforts is due to a lack of scholarship amongst them and the undeniable urge to merely coexist and �be happy' and joyful, while denying that there is ugliness in the world. They tend to think that if they ignore the ugliness and hatred and don't participate in it on any level, even to that level of trying to gain understanding of it, that it will simply go away in time. It won't, it takes work and a willingness to be truthful with oneself in all things, especially ones own faults.

Wiccan beliefs do not include such Judeao-Christian concepts as original sin, vicarious atonement,

Oh really, and what is Karmic law, what is the three-fold law and how do it's penalties apply to atonement? Rethink that one friend, whatever you do.... comes back to you.... you will make atonement now won't you....

divine judgement or bodily resurrection.

You judge things as evil or good.... that is divine judgement, are you not part and parcel of the divine?

Craft folk believe in a beneficient universe,

Beneficent only? Only that which benefits you? That's a bit naiev�.

the laws of karma and reincarnation, and divinity inherent in every human being and all of nature

See above.... if this is your belief then you do render divine judgement in the cases of what you perceive to be good or evil, right or wrong. No human is capable of not judging and if in fact they are, they are mentally deficient.

Yet laughter and pleasure are part of their spiritual tradition, and they enjoy singing, dancing, feasting and love.{personally I really like the Feasting!!!!!hehehehhe}

So do most humans, how does that set you apart as a religious order? The Christians, the Jews, the Muslims, the Hindus, etc.... all enjoy eating life in this manner.

Wiccans tend to be individualists, and have no central holy book, prophet or church authority. They draw inspiration and insight from science, and personal experience. Each practitioner keeps a personal book or journal {Book Of Shadows--see my BOS pages to learn more about this} in which she/he records magickal recipes, dreams, invocations, songs, poetry and so on.

Basically you are saying that you don't care where the practices you participate in come from, you don't care to know the history of the culture they came from or why they were sacred to a certain group of people, you'll just adopt them, alter them and call them Wiccan in the hopes that no one will notice and call you on it, without even stopping to think of the damage you are doing by rewriting history in this manner! That's a fine point of honor there isn't it!

To most who follow the Craft, every religion has its own valuable perspective on the nature of Diety and humanity's relationship to it:

So the perspective that you speak of is contrived, it matters not what the attributes of that particular deity were originally or what it might have meant to the generations that celebrated that deity prior to you and your minions, only that you'll see it as you wish and not seek to know the truth of it!

there is no One True Faith. Rather, religious diversity is necessary in a world of diverse societies and individuals. Because of this belief, Wiccan groups do not actively recruit or proselitize:

That is an outright lie! You do it all the time, preaching the attributes of the craft and singing it's accolades to anyone that will listen. That is recruitment. As for your webring, what is that? You tried to recruit us to join in your little ring, when we rejected you, you became hostile, you recruit even when you don't see it as such my friend. I have been recruited by Wiccan High Priestesses now on several occasions, don't tell me they don't recruit! Watch a newsgroup or a chat room once in a while, that is all you �Wiccans' do, is recruit. When you align against others who don't share your views and try to win the favor of the few who bear witness to the assault, that is recruitment. Vague yes, but still recruitment.

there is an assumption that people who can benefit from the Wiccan way will "find their way home" when the time is right. Despite the lack of vangelist zeal,

Lack of evangelist Zeal? In Wicca? Surely you jest!

many covens are quite willing to talk with interested people, and even make efforts to inform their communities about the beliefs and practices of Wicca.

This is proselytizing.....