GR - Georgia Roberts

JR - James Roberts

How and when did you get started in Lhasas?

GR - Oh my, thats a long story!  Mrs. Ritchie from Vancouver bought two Lhasas in 1953 bred by Mrs. Haas in Toront.  The male, Karandale Dakmar, finished his American championship, and the little bitch - we called her "Goldie", was Can. Ch. Karandale Tangee.  She had three puppies in January 1954 and Mrs. Ritchie brought them out to board with us when they were only a few weeks old.  I had never seen one before - had heard of them but that was it.  There were none out here.  There was a lady on Vancouver Island who had some that she showed in obedience and did very well with them.  She was married to a sailor and he was transferred to Nova Scotia and that was the end of her.  But we had these three puppies and Goldie to board and we fell in love with them, absolutely!  I bought one of them, a little female named "Ping" for Jim for Father's Day.  Later on, when Ping was around two, I took her to California and bred her to one of Mrs. Liebman's dogs, Ch. Ming Tali 11, CD.  She had three puppies and one of those, a female, we sold to Marianne Nixon guaranteeing that she would be a good show dog.  She was - Marianne even got a group with her which was unheard of for a Lhasa.  To this day, Marianne says she was the best Lhasa she ever had.  She was Ch. Jo-Mo Dkar-Po of Abbotsford.

Were Lhasas your first breed?

GR - No, English Cockers were the first.  We showed our first one in 1940.

And then Poodles?

GR - And then Poodles.  The same Mrs. Ritchie had Poodles, and Mrs. Melchers also had them - she had a lot of English imports and did wonderfully well with them.  I used to board their dogs and look after Mrs. Melchers' when she was away.  They were all show dogs and I had to groom them.  After a gear I gave in and they gave me one, a miniature.   When I first saw Poodles I thought they were the silliest things I had ever seen, having been used to sporting dogs.  We brought quite a few out from England at different times.

We had the Poodles the tail-end of the Cockers, but I had to quit showin Cockers because my heart was bad and I couldn't go galloping around the Sporting Group ring, so the Miniature Poodles were more my size.  Then of course, everybody and his aunt had Poodles - they were a status quo.  They paid no attention to rhyme nor reason - no color, no bloodlines, no nothing!  They made such a mess of the Poodles.  Of course the prices went down and then all the fly-by-night people quit.  But in the meantime, I was so disgusted that I quit.  I wouldn't have anything more to do with them because were breeding good stock and it was so sickending to see this happen.

JR - The American Cockers went through the same thing, but the Cocker is a nice dog today.

GR - Anyway, then we concentrated on nothing but Lhasas.

Has your husband always shared your interest in the Lhasas?

GR - Oh, good gracious yes!

JR - It was I who started it because I was crazy about them!

GR - Then he had the butcher shop which made getting meat for them a cinch.

JR - I was the one who brought all the dogs from England.

GR - He was the one who had the eye for a dog, knowing the anatomy of animals - all animals.

What has been your goal in breeding?

GR - Better - always something better.  Always looking to improve both the disposition and the quality.

Do you feel that you have achieved your goal?

GR - With Teako, yes.  But he was one in a lifetime.  We don't ecpect to ever get another one.

What was Teako like?

GR - From the time he was six weeks old you couldn't miss him.   He was the one that we both agreed upon right from the start.

JR - He was perfection plus.

GR - Look at his picture when he was ten weeks old - you can see it right there.

JR - He projected himself, Nelson ( Teako's sire, Brackenbury Kandron) did the same thing.  They gave something that siad, "Here I am, look at me!" - CLASS!  You can have a magnificent dog and if it doesn't project itself its just "blah" in the ring.

What was your greates thrill in showing Teako?

GR - I think winning the Specialty in Beverly Hills.  There were 79 Lhasas and 16 Specials, not counting him, and he took second in the Group besides that day! There were 3,500 dogs in the show.

The position of Top Lhasa in Canada has been held ten times by Abbotsford dogs and the second and third position several times as well.  To what do you attribute your consistend success in breeding top dogs?

GR - Just trial and error.  Paying attention to the bloodlines and to the individula dog, what it needs.  I like the combination of grandfather to granddaughter very much.

JR - Helping Mother Nature.  Inbreeding, especially in Lhasa Apsos, as long as the dogs are good.  Thats the only way we've been able to do it, because we found it impossible sometimes to find a dog to bring in.

Would you give a brief word picture of your idea of the ideal Lhasa Apso?

JR - Never over 10 inches at the shoulder - 10, 10 1/4 inches.   At 10 1/2 inches you are getting too bit.  The ideal is a compact little dog that projects himself.  Nice neck, solid - personality and projection.

GR - Good muscle and bone and a head that measures properly.  A level toplind and a tail that lies flat on the back.  One that moves right fore and aft.  But the idea of the straight front legs - they should Not be like a Terrier.   They should have that little bend at the pastern that gives them what Jim calls "four-wheel suspension".  Otherwise, if they are built like a Wire-Haired Fox Terrier, how can they climb the mountains in the terrain of Tibet?

JR - they have a fluid motion.  They should be built like a Greed Goddess with the rear-end of an Irish washerwoman!

GR - I think Jim's description has always been correct - and a face like an old tomcat!

JR - Ten inches tall, 17 - 18 pounds, depending on the dog.

GR - I would stress the size, I really would, because - you taked these big dogs that they have now ...

JR - They're not Lhasas!

GR - No, they're not!  Twelve inches is too large.  They don't look like Lhasas ... just big cumbersome dogs!

JR - I've talked with Tibetan people at the University of Washington and they informed their dogs are small and all matts!

How do you feel about the overall quality of the Lhasa Apso as a breed?

GR - Oh, I think they have come a long way.  When I think bact to when I first started, people didn't know how to groom them - they had beat-up coats.   The idea that everything should be golden has gone by the board.  If it is a good dog, color shouldn't matter.

JR - We never bred for color.

What about pigment?

GR - Oh yes.  They must have good dark pigmentation whatever color they are.

Have you noticed any specific faults you feel Lhasa breeders should be especially aware of and concentrate on trying to improve?

GR - Yes, size.

JR - They should concentrate on mouth.  They are letting too many go with overbites.

Of how much importance to you is the Lhasa bite?

GR - If you have a dog that is good every other way, unless it is pronounced overshot, I wouldn't ditch a really good specimen for something like that.

JR - You are supposed to have a correct mouth, but if you have to get 100% perfection, you'll never breed!

What about coat type?

GR - Profuse all over, straight, not curly, not fuzzy.  They are supposed to have an undercoat - all mine do.  They should have a dense coat, and long, reasonably coarse on the outside, bit it is soft underneath.  The hair on their legs and chest is sorg.

JR - Firm, profuse, straight.  They have to have and undercoat - remember that they come from a very cruel country, the weather in winter is terrible.  Not fine, no wire - no Afro!

Anything else that you would like to mention?

GR - Yes, disposition.  This "chary of stragers" is fine, but they should not bite.  You couldn't make one of our Lhasas bite - not one in the whole 27 years.  But they are marvelous little watchdogs.  They will scare the devil out of anybody who comes banging on the door or somebody thay they don't know, but no way would they bite.  That is something in the ring.  If one bit the judge for any ordinary reason, out he should go!

JR - And if he is "chary" as they say, then he doesn't show.   You've got to have a dog thats biddable and disciplined.

GR - I would forgive that to a certain extent, because some of them dislike certain people, but if they'd bite, out they would go.

JR - We always think a Lhasa likes children first, women second, and men last!