Phoning from Mexico City, the night before his very first post-retirement gig, Ozzy Osbourne doesn't hold back a thing-about his infamously short-lived retirement plan, the new album, his personal life, and why he's back on the crazy train.
How have you spent your free time in Mexico today?
We just went to the Aztec pyramids. It was absolutely fantastic. Unbelievable. You should check it out, it's really worth seeing. Two-thousand-five-hundred years old. Fantastic!
At the time when you recorded No More Tears, were you absolutely certain that you were definitely going to retire after you finished touring?
I felt like a mouse on a wheel that was going round and round and round, and I didn't know where it was going. So I said to my wife, Sharon, who is also my manager, "I don't know what I'm doing it for anymore. I'm doing it, everyone's getting fat and wealthy out of it, and I'm getting all of the rewards from it, but what's the point if by the end of my life I'm going to be too old to enjoy what I worked so hard for?" I realize how fortunate I am to have luck on my side for so long. I just wanted to jump off, you know, just to see what it was like.
And what was it like?
I announced my retirement, then I suddenly realized when it was all over, "What do I do? What do you do when you retire? I don't feel old, I don't feel crippled, I don't feel sick." I've never been good at planning my life. Ever since the first Sabbath album, I've been like fire out of a cannon, and I've never really landed. I'd always do a tour and have a short break, but I knew I'd better make the most of it because I'd have to go in again and make another record soon. And every time I had to make a new record-every single time, I'd think, "Oh, man, I don't think I can come up with any more good ideas. I don't think it's going to work anymore." I'm Mr. Al Doomo-I always think of the worst case scenario. People around me would say, "Well, you always say that, but it always has worked out." I will come out and be the best when my back's against the wall; I'll come out with all guns blazing. I just wanted to know what it would be like to not have that commitment around me like a ball and chain. I thought, "Well, if it works, I may realize that at the age of 45, great, I can afford to live the rest of my life doing what I want." But I'm one of these guys who, when I'm on the road, I want to be at home, and when I'm at home, I want to be on the road again. There's no pleasing me.
During your farewell "No More Tears" tour, how did you feel knowing that this could possibly be the last time you were going to be doing this?
You know, in my heart of hearts...
You knew it wasn't over?
I knew it wasn't over. I thought, "I don't feel like it's the end." But what did demoralize me a lot was at the beginning part of the tour, I think it was in Detroit, I broke a couple of bones in my foot. I went onstage every night with a cast, and when the cast was eventually taken off, I started to walk really weird, and my foot had collapsed, all of this shit. Then I got to L.A. and go to a doctor who puts me in touch with a specialist, and I go through these fucking MRI tests. Now unbeknownst to me, they tell my wife that they think that I have a little bit of MS (Multiple Sclerosis). So I'm on the phone, and my wife is crying all the time. I'm going, "Babe, what's the matter? I'm going to be home soon." Then I'm thinking, "Maybe it is a good idea that you fucking retire, because your wife's broken-hearted. She's crying all the time. She must be missing you." She hadn't told me anything about the MS. So I'm having spinal taps, and I'm saying to Sharon, "Why am I going through all this shit?!" Then my wife just sat there one day and said, "Wait a minute," and she's re-running through her head when this neurologist said to her, "Your husband has a little bit of MS." And she thinks, "It's like someone telling me that I'm a little bit pregnant. Either I am, or I am not."
Did you still have to see more doctors?
I said, "I am not seeing another doctor. If I see another syringe, I will fucking die! I can't take this shit anymore. I'm trying to do gigs, and I'm like a laboratory rat." She says, "Just see this one guy in Boston." Unbeknownst to me, she had gotten in touch with people from the record company, who were very supportive. They suggested the leading MS specialist in the world, who was at Bostonian Hospital. And at that point, I still hadn't know what was going on! I go to this hospital in Boston, and this guy goes to me, "Mr. Osbourne?" I said, "Yeah." "Could you stand up please?" "Yeah." "Could you walk to me?" So I walk to him. He goes, "I'm going to say this to you once and then I want you to leave, I've looked at your records, I've looked at your charts, I've looked at your results-you do not have MS. Good day!" My wife falls on the floor in a pool of tears and hallelujahs. I'm going, "What's the matter with you? What's your problem? What does 'MS' mean?" She goes, (crying) "Let's just get out of here. I want to go home." So, I had all of that to contend with. Plus, the fact that I originally thought that she was canceling some of my shows because I had the flu.
How did you feel after you found out about everything?
Suddenly I haven't got MS, and I've got eight shows a week again. I'm going to Sharon, "Hey babe, do you think I could have a little bit of MS again?" (laughs) because the gigs are so wearing. It was a nightmare. For every rock, there's a roll. I had this vision when I started that if I didn't make it to the end, I wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. And I was so unhappy at those last two Costa Mesa gigs, because I was so full of medication from these fucked-up doctors-I had spent $110,000 in tests and I never had anything wrong with me-plus the flu that I couldn't shake, and because of the weight that I was throwing around, I was singing bad. It was totally destroyed. At the end of it, I was so unhappy that I never left the stage the way I started it.
You must have still felt so angry about all of the time and energy wasted with those doctors.
Not for me, for my wife. My poor wife went through hell. After that whole saga, I went back to the hotel after my last gig, and I sat there and said, "I don't feel any different." I thought I would feel this big sense of accomplishment or something. I was retired, but I didn't feel any different, just the same as I always did. Then I thought, "What the fuck am I going to do now?" I knew at the first Costa Mesa show that I would be back. I said, "Put it on pyro (pyrotechnic stage lighting): 'I'll Be Back.'" So they put it up in big fireworks.
What were some of the things that you did during your very short "retirement?"
When I "retired," I didn't actually retire entirely. I took about a year off, and in that year I bought a house, I refurbished a house, I bought the toys-these night vision binoculars, and I used to stay up all night watching these animals run across my land, all these bee-bee guns, cars, and whatever. Then, I got rid of all that, and when I get antsy, I get in this habit of sitting down, getting up, opening the refrigerator door, closing it, then sitting back down again. I just keep opening the refrigerator and closing it. Sharon said, "I'm completely getting pissed-off Ozzy." I go, "Well, I want to play. I want to do some music." She goes, "You told me that you wanted to retire. Now you're retired. What do you want to do now?" I said, "Well, can't I just do music a little bit.(laughs)" She said, "You can't just do a little bit." I said, "Can't I just have a gig when I want to?" She said, "Ozzy, you don't understand. You either do it properly, or you don't do it. You can't have it both ways." I realized when I retired that you only really retire when they start shoveling sand over a pine box. I suppose people say, "Oh, he's too old, he's 46." But to judge people by age-I don't understand any of that. I'm over here in Mexico, and it's crazy here! I mean, they're so happy that I'm here. I'm looking forward to going back out on the road. What I did in actual fact was took a semester off; I got off the crazy train for a while, where I didn't have a deadline to meet, and I didn't have to cram everything into one particular space or time.
So then, you just needed some time off to do things on your own terms for a while?
For the first time in my whole career, I was allowed the freedom to write when I wanted to write. I did a lot of traveling in the last three years. I didn't exactly sit at home. I spent a year at home, and then I traveled over to Vancouver to work with (songwriter) Jim Vallance. Mark Hudson came to England and we wrote together. I did some stuff with Steve Vai, and it was great. (Steve Vai and Ozzy co-wrote "My Little Man," a track on Ozzmosis. However, Zakk Wylde is the one who plays on that song.) I just did a lot of exploratory work that I always wanted to do. I had this thing where, if I wasn't standing there with blood-dripping fangs in my mouth and holding a dead parrot in my arms, it wouldn't be accepted. I had to get rid of these musical frustrations, and I did. I recorded Ozzmosis but I've got so much stuff left over, that I could do another two albums right now.
Is the reason that you have so much extra material due to the fact that you worked with some outside songwriters for this record?
Yes, between Mark Hudson, Jim Vallance, Tyler Rhodes-loads of people.
In the past, how often had you worked with outside songwriters?
Never. The only one thing that I did was something that you never saw which I did with Holly Knight, a few years back. I keep bringing it out, recording it, then canning it, and re-recording it again. Maybe one day it'll come out somewhere. To be Ozzy Osbourne is great, it's absolutely great, but I'm kind of type-cast in the respect that they won't let me get away from being me. There's more to me than the devil, than the fucking suicides, and the craziness. There's a gentle side, there's a crazy side, there's a serious side. I'm not just one color, you know. When Michael Beinhorn (producer of Ozzmosis whose past credits include Soul Asylum, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Soundgarden) went into the studio, he brought back a bit of that darkness, and I said, "Why are we doing it like this?" And he said, "Ozzy, that's what you are. You've got to accept who you are. You can't be somebody that you're not." And I had to accept that. The easiest way that I can explain it to you: It's like the guy who plays Superman, and he's such a great actor and you're so used to seeing him in that role that if you see him in another film-he may be a doctor, an anthropologist, a rocket scientist-you expect him at any time to rip his shirt off and fly out the window. That's what I'm trying to explain-I was a victim of my own success and creation. I wanted to do something different, but then again, I was afraid of failure.
After all of your successful years, it seems surprising that you were still afraid to take chances.
Believe me-I swear on my children's lives-every time I do a record I'm the worst guy to be around because I dissect it and take it to pieces, then rebuild it. Every night I go onstage before I do a gig I think I'm going to fail. Some nights I fail, and the next night I go on I think I'm going to fail again. People say, "Surely Ozzy, after all these years you're a pro; you go onstage and you pull it off." I still get stage-fright, and as I get older, it gets fucking worse! I get butterflies, I go to the bathroom 5,000 times. I'm terrible! I suppose if the day comes when I say, "Oh, yeah, I can do this, it's nothing," then I won't want it because I have to have a challenge. The reason why I retired was because I was beginning to lose my challenge. I had a goal, and I wanted to become something and someone, and from the word "go" in Black Sabbath it was instant success. Then I got fired from Black Sabbath, and I got success on my own. Eventually, everything comes to an end, and I think, "Well, maybe it's best to jump off while you're on top, Ozzy, rather than dwindle down," because I wouldn't want to be one of those guys who get to a pinnacle, then end up playing fucking coffee houses.
And your last record, No More Tears, was the most successful out of all of your previous records.
Oh, yeah. If you asked me to describe Ozzmosis, it's very well-made piece of work-it's got some very heavy elements, it's got some very psychedelic elements, it's got some very personal elements. But if you're looking for a follow-up to No More Tears, I don't know if this is a good thing to say, but it's nothing like No More Tears.
Did you enjoy the experience of working a bit differently this time around by writing with outside songwriters?
When Tyler Rhodes came to England, he was a guy who was very quiet-and I'm a fucking hellraiser-so I was thinking, "This guy, he can't write songs." Then he comes in with this phenomenal idea called "Back On Earth," which never made the album, but will definitely be released on one of my future albums. It's fucking great. At the other end of the stick, I had the best time with Mark Hudson. We would go into this shitty old demo studio and just do six songs back-to-back in this sweat-box.. And it was fun. And Jim Vallance-if you ever met Jim Vallance you would never in a million light years think he'd write such great stuff. Not only did I learn from them, they learned from me. So it was a two-way-street. One thing about writing with songwriters as opposed to writing with a band is everyday that I went into a room with one of them, I came home with a song. Not necessarily was every song great, some were just plain crap, but I came home with something. It was a great learning experience for me; not only did I make music, I made some great friends.
Were you immediately open to the idea of writing with people who were not in your band?
Well, Zakk was off doing Pride & Glory. I had recorded an album with the original band, and some of the songs are okay, which I kept for Ozzmosis, but then I knew in my heart of hearts that two-thirds of the whole album was plain bullshit. Zakk had said that when he finished his Pride & Glory thing he would play on the album, so at the time I thought, "At least I'll have a continuing guitar sound through the album." From now on, I'll do anything. It was so refreshing to work with people that weren't fucked-up all day long, who would just throw out a riff and then you'd have to try to construct it, or would talk about how many chicks they've laid the night before, or how many beers they've drunk. It was just great, it was comfortable. I mean, all the people that I worked with, I thought, "What incredible stuff!" There's this one track on the album which I wrote with Jim Vallance, where he said, "You know what, Ozzy, I was in bed last night and I was thinking about this idea. What do you think about this?" And he started with, "There are no impossible dreams; There are no invisible seams." Then we went onto, "There are no incurable ills; There are no unkillable thrills." And we just kept bouncing this shit off all day! It was endless! And right at the end is, "I don't ask much; I just want you." It's a fucking phenomenal song.
What's the name of this song?
It's called "I Just Want You." The middle section of the song goes, "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired; I used to go to bed so high and wired." I drink Pepsi cola all day long, I live on that shit, and I call it plastic water. I remember saying to Jim, as I have a bottle of Pepsi in my hand, "I think I'll buy myself some plastic water," and Jim goes, "I guess I should have married Lennon's daughter," He doesn't have a daughter! It's brilliant!
Did you learn anything while being at home for your short-lived "retirement"?
I went home to be a father and husband. Then I go, "Get me back out on the road!" My kids, I love them, but for 24 hours a day? Every mother in the world, in my opinion, deserves a fucking medal! My wife does nothing but runs around after me and the kids-and does the business, and keeps the house in order, and feeds my eight dogs.
Was there anything important that you had especially wanted to accomplish during your free time?
Back when I stopped getting fucked up, I had all of this time on my hands, and I thought, "Well, I'm bloated and fat. I've got to get slim, young, and attractive again. That's my first goal." So for my diet, I was eating a bit of fish a day, a gold fish for dinner or whatever. This was during the No More Tears tour. I virtually went anorexic. Then, I went to see the L.A. Lakers' foot specialist, because when I was drinking, I did a lot of damage to my nervous system that I hadn't known about, which caused a lot of problems. I went into a seizure at one point, which scrambled my brain somewhat, and left me with a weird walk. I was wearing a leg brace for a while, and that was okay for when I was onstage, but I don't even do that anymore. Whenever you go to a doctor, you think whatever they have to say is law or God. Then you go to another guy and he says, "The heck with that. Do this." If you know anybody with a fucked-up leg, I've got every single known leg brace you can imagine. I've got a garage full of them at home! What I did along the way was cause atrophy on my muscle. The guy from the L.A. Lakers said, "What you have to do is start working out-exercising you leg and building that muscle up-because if you lose that muscle, you're fucked." So I got on a LifeCycle (exercise bike) and I became addicted to that. Every single day I do a minimum of an hour and a half. Some days I go four hours. Then, I would sit in my room doing abstract artwork, just to keep my mind going. I'm one of these guys who, if I haven't got anything to worry about, I'll worry because I haven't got a worry. I wake up and I am a disaster area. I have to take anti-depressant medication, because when you have seizures it kind of fucks you up a little bit.
So you have a very addictive personality, except now you're addicted to a healthier life.
Well, I switched my addiction to a positive thing. I just went to these Aztec places, and I climbed two pyramids, and the rest of the band is saying, "Hey, man, I'm not climbing up there." I was running up the fucking thing! I started eating healthy food; I'm semi-vegetarian. I eat a little chicken, I do eat fish, but I do not eat red meat. You know what? When I got into Mexico today I turned the TV on, and they go on about me biting the heads off bats, but have you ever seen a bullfight? Man, what do they need me down here for? Those poor creatures, they don't have a chance! They were dripping with blood. They've got these tiny spears that they stick in them that just hang off. I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, "Unbelievable!" Just because I don't drink, I'm not going to try to change the world. Human nature is the way it is, and when I was drinking, if somebody, "Ozzy, you shouldn't drink," I'd just say, "Fuck off. Get me another bottle." All I do, I do for me. If I want to eat meat, I have a choice. If I want to drink booze, either I do it or I don't. I'm not preaching the gospel. I'm not saying to your readers, "Hey man, if I can do it, then you can." If I could honestly be happy being fucked-up, I wouldn't be sitting on the phone talking to you right now. I'd be fucked-up somewhere. I just got fed up waking up feeling like a piece of shit. It just felt dreadful. In just one night, I would destroy a year's work. People say to me, "Ozzy, what's your secret?" I don't know. There is no secret. Either you stop, or you die.
Is there still any temptation to go back to your old ways?
I just went to this pyramid place here, and all around they have local people weaving and making stuff. And one of the things they make there is tequila, and they also make these aphrodisiac drinks. I said, "Do the aphrodisiacs have alcohol?" They said, "Very little." I said, "No thank you." On another occasion, quite recently when I was back in England, we went to this little Italian restaurant near where we live. Every time I go into this restaurant, I always order the same meal-it's spaghetti with this tomato-basil sauce. Sharon says, "Ozzy, try something else. You must be so bored of the same thing all the time." I said, "But everything else has got red meat in it." She says, "Look, this has mushrooms and tomatoes." She asks the waitress, "Does this have any red meat?" The waitress says no. Well, I put one spoonful in my mouth and I say, "I can't eat that, sweetheart." She says, "Why?" I say, "'Cause it's got booze in it." She goes, "Fuck off!" I said, "There is booze in that sauce." She says, "Give me a taste. No, there's no booze, you're crazy. Waitress, just set him right: Is there any booze in here?" The waitress goes, "Yes, there's red wine in there." It's not that I'm against it. If I think about it, that would probably be okay to eat. But then, I would go, "I had that sauce with a little bit of wine in it and I felt great, so why can't I have a little nip of wine on the side." And then the nip of wine would end up being a bottle, and the bottle would end up being a case, and the case would end up being a bottle of vodka, and the bottle of vodka would end up with me running around looking for cocaine. I know my weakness. Whatever I do in my life, whatever it is, it is all or nothing. So I was down at this Aztec place today, and for a moment, all of these reporters are sitting around with these great big goldfish bowls full of those drinks and I thought, "Hmm, that looks great." But then I go, "What are you fucking talking about?!" It never leaves you. But I'll tell you what, I'll give up the coke, I'll give up the booze, and they say that nicotine isn't addictive, but I can't give up nicotine! I fucking hate it, but I can't stop.
How is your overall health these days?
I just had my annual physical, and my doctor said, "You know, the next one (to go) is the tobacco." I said, "I know it." He said, "But listen, four years ago when you first came in here you looked like a bloated, dying pig. You look great now. You'll do it in your own time, when you're ready."
That is definitely the one and only way to do anything right in any aspect of life. One thing I've learned, whatever you do in your life-and I don't want to sound like old Father Time giving anyone advice-you either learn by your mistakes eventually, or you don't. As they say, "Shit, or get off the pot." From where I come from four or five or six years ago, I'm now down to taking medication which is prescribed for a reason rather than to get stoned, and it's for my chemical imbalance because of the amount of shit that I pushed into my system. I mean, each day that I'm alive I'm thankful that I'm here, because I shouldn't be here, you know.
Your former Black Sabbath bandmate, Geezer Butler (who recorded on Ozzmosis and is also doing the tour), has also been sober for a while now. Had you and Geezer remained in touch throughout your years apart?
On and off, really. I don't have any enemies. There's enough of them in this world without me having any of them. I don't hate anyone. If I dislike someone, I just don't go around in their company. One thing I could honestly say is that I wouldn't want to go back and be a young kid again. Somebody said to me the other day, "Would you like to be 21 again?" No fucking way. In this day and age? You've got to be crazy! I got to be 46, by reasons I don't know. I don't have a clue why I'm alive. I sure am grateful. I won't talk about "sobriety" though, because occasionally I will smoke a joint. But then again, when I did smoke a joint, which would have been back about five months ago, I turned into a fucking waste-disposal unit and ate everything, boxes of corn flakes, everything. So that went. Suddenly I said, "Just be normal. You're crazy enough without that shit." I'm only trying to find an escape route out of reality.
When you began working with Geezer again, how did you feel about being reminded of your Black Sabbath days?
Life is a journey. I must be honest, I'm so happy now. People have said to me, "You wait until you're 40, Ozzy. You'll go through turmoil-a crisis." I honestly thought it was bullshit. But when I hit 40, it was if someone had got me, spun me around by the ankles, and flung me into outer space. And it took me about four years to land. Then when I landed, I suddenly kind of worked myself out. When you're 21 you go through one, and when you're 40 you go through one. I met so many guys who said that their lives have changed for better or worse. I'd like to think I've changed for the better. I get up every morning, and religiously, I do 500 stomach crunches, I'm on my bike for an hour-and-half, sometimes two hours, maybe three or four, depending on how I feel. Before I go to bed I do another 500 stomach curls. Sharon goes, "Hey, I never used to see you when you were drinking, and I never see you now, because you're always in your gym working out!" I get a rush from it. The other day I was in California, at this hotel, and I did two hours straight on the bike, got off the bike, went out, and I ran for an hour. Mind you, the next day, I've got to be honest, I thought my legs had been broken. After living in a bottle as I did all those years, it's like a new kind of buzz living out of the bottle. You start to do things that you wouldn't have ever done before. For instance, when I was just back in England my daughter had a school play, and Sharon said, "You've got to go see Aimee's play," and I thought that would be like going to have a tooth pulled. I said, "How long is it?" She said, "Three hours." I said, "Oh, no. Three hours sitting in the same room, I'll be insane." I went to my kid's school play, three hours went by like 10 seconds, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I'm thinking, "Oh, I've totally gone fucking mad."
How many children do you have?
Five. I've got a daughter and a son from a previous marriage that I don't really get a chance to see much, but my oldest daughter, Aimee, from this marriage, is 12, and I've got a daughter, Kelly, she's 11, and my son, Jack, is 10.
How did you choose guitarist Joe Holmes for this tour?
It wasn't because, "Oh, he was one of Randy Rhoads' students, you should check him out." Mike Inez (of Alice In Chains) said, "I know this guitar player who would be great for you. You've got to check this guy out." I said, "Okay." So when I heard him play, and I jammed with him, I saw that the guy played great! Mike was telling me to check Joe out for a long time. It turns out, back when I discovered Zakk, Joe had auditioned for me! I don't know whether I passed over him or what, but I believe everything happens for a reason. And I've got Deen Castronovo on drums-a great player.
How have you and Zakk Wylde left off since it was decided that he wouldn't be touring with you?
We're great friends. Zakk's got his own destiny. I'm sure, without any doubt in my mind, that he's going to be fucking huge! And I want him to be. He's a great player. But he's growing his wings and he's flown off. He's another one that I've discovered, and it's great that I keep finding these players who grow wings and fly off and keep the machine going. I have no bad things to say; don't expect me to start running Zakk down, because I love him. I felt honored to be around him, he was great, but I move on. I have to have a challenge-it keeps me going. And, with new, fresh blood, there's a hunger.
Do you listen to any music during your free time?
No. It's like, you write for a magazine; if you type articles, do you spend time just typing words? I've got it in my head that if I play anything remotely heavy, my kids go, "Man, turn that shit down!" While my kids were growing up, I had my music playing like fucking Surround Sound! And they think I'm mad. It's like, my kids know I'm a lunatic.
So what are your current thoughts on "retiring"? Is the word even in your vocabulary any more?
I think, in the future, I won't announce it. I'll just bow out gracefully and disappear.
So there won't be any big celebrations?
No, no. When I've got some terminal illness or something, maybe then. Retirement is too permanent. I mean, can't we change our minds, you know? I'm sure if you were dying and someone said, "You're dying. Would you like to change your mind?" You'd go, "Well, yeah. I think I wouldn't mind living for a few more years."
One last question: What do you feel is the biggest misconception people have about you?
The biggest misconception people have about me is: Just when you think you know what Ozzy Osbourne is about, you are not even touching the surface. God bless you!