Gorean Philosophy

Question::  Where do You feel the Gorean Philosophy is most misunderstood?

Marakesh::  The main confusion lies in thinking that a 'Gorean Philosophy' is purely a BDSM phenomena. I recognize this is the facet that draws most of people in this direction, but one should remember that the dominance/submission aspect of Gor is an extension of certain ideas within Gorean society. Norman presented an entire culture, an entire world and society, and not just some curiously written erotica.

Question::  Of all the tenets of the Gorean Philosophy, which to You, is the hardest for most to conceive?

Marakesh::  For most females, the acceptance that the male is the dominant sex due to biology. You can argue intellectual and emotional dynamics all you want, but biologically, by that I mean physically, the male is the stronger, dominant, sex. Please note that statement disregards the political correctness whitewash both men and women have been subjected to for years. Both sexes frequently have a difficult time coming to terms with the idea that they are not, don't have to be, equal, nor are they expected to be.

Question::  With regards to "Honor, Integrity, and Brotherhood" which to You, holds the most regard? Why?

Marakesh::  Interesting question. Can those be separated? Brotherhood is a fellowship based on similar ideas. Honor means integrity in one's actions. Honor may be the buzzword of a Gorean, but I frequently think it's become almost generic through overuse. On the other hand, integrity means adherence to a moral or ethical principle. Therefore, my integrity is the most important thing to me; from that, everything else should follow. They are inseparable. This isn't to say one is always successful in any of the three, but one should certainly try to demand it of himself. If you look under 'integrity' in the dictionary, by the way, it usually also tells you to see 'honor.'

Question::  For many, to bring the Gorean Philosophy into their Earthly lives: the cost and sacrifices are great: What has been Your greatest sacrifice to date?

Marakesh::  I lost a part of myself, for too long. What I once recognized as true inside, about me, I began to deny due to the manipulations of the politically correct world, and admittedly my own weakness at that point to keep my heart true. I buried it, and it took a while for me to bring it all together again. See above question; loss of integrity. It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Additionally, my social circle began to decrease, which wasn't a bad thing. I'm select in my friendships. I would rather have one good friend, than a dozen acquaintances.

Question::  Under what conditions would a Gorean Male move from His home stone?

Marakesh::  When, in good faith, he can longer support the actions of his fellows, when his own ideas become so far removed from the ideas and actions of those who claim the same home stone as he. Perhaps that's blasphemy to some, but I've been known to blaspheme.

I'm loyal to my friends, sometimes to a fault. That loyalty will not end until they forcibly show me that they were not, or are not, my friend at all. This isn't to say it isn't painful to be loyal, or painful to forget or deny a friendship you had or thought you once had.

In my opinion the same applies to a home stone. When I pledged to the S&S, for example, I didn't pledge to a piece of rock, I pledged to the ideals represented by the tavern's home stone. When the ideals surrounding your pledge to a home stone change, when that pledge isn't upheld and returned on an equitable basis, then it's time to reevaluate the situation. Seeing something happen that you disagree with is painful; sometimes worse is knowing you are expected to uphold it without question as a show of solidarity. Having to apologize for those around you on a regular basis, or having to support something with apologies, isn't acceptable.

Question::  Up till what time should a Gorean Male stand by His Brothers?

Marakesh::  If they are his Brothers, he will always stand by them, be there for them when they need him. When they are no longer brothers, see above.

Question::  Do you think a Gorean can perform an unforgivable action or crime on IRC? If so, what would that be?

Marakesh::  Gross stupidity. Simple, isn't it?

Question::  How do you personally measure your success as a Gorean?

Marakesh::  Have I maintained my integrity? Behaved honorably according to my personal code? Has someone learned from what I've said, what I've shown them, tried to teach them? Is a slave trembling and wet after speaking with me? <chuckle>

*lassy chews on her bottom lip, wondering .....

Question::  What was the hardest thing to overcome when You took Your beliefs into Real Life?

Marakesh::  I hate the term politically correct. Just saying it aloud bothers me <growl>. But, that's been the hardest thing to overcome. There is so much backlash to admitting you actually read Norman's books, let alone support them, especially in actual practice. Adding to that is the constant misinformation which seems to feed on itself, and the fear that same misinformation provides even within the reasonably intelligent and open-minded D/s community. It's not a sword role play, not a half hour scenario, and not a sadistic game for people that get off on just being cruel for the sake of cruelty. I recognize that what might be right for me isn't for you, and visa versa, but I do have a moral right to practice privately with consenting adults something that doesn't harm others, something we believe in, even if it makes a non-participant uncomfortable when they witness it or think about it. By the way, sometimes I think that discomfort may be caused by denial of what that non-participant recognizes as true.

*lassy sucks in her breath, hearing the growl

A further comment: truthfully, I'm not quite sure why saying one is Gorean creates such a outcry from D/s communities. Speaking purely from an IRC standpoint, the slaves that are warned not to come to our channel and who come to find out what it is really like for themselves frequently find what they say was previously missing from their lives, a greater strength and control from a master. Something to consider, especially when an initial IRC contact becomes a real life situation. Is this so bad?

Mastery

Question::  Do you ever feel limited in your Master/slave relationship by the dictates set forth in the books?

Marakesh::  No. I make the rules in that relationship. Do I occasionally feel limited by considering the source books as written in stone scripture, yes.

Question::  When does the gossip of slaves become a concern for Masters? If and when it becomes such, how should it be dealt with?

Marakesh::  Ultimately, it becomes a concern when it annoys a master enough to act. When the gossip distracts the master, or the slave or slaves, from what is trying to be accomplished, or when it distracts from the atmosphere or well-being of the community as a whole, it should be dealt with according to the situation.

Question::  When a slave fails, should he or she be given a second chance? If not, why not? If so, then under what circumstances?

Marakesh::  That depends largely on the failure, and the circumstance which caused it. Communication is a main key in a relationship between a master and slave, but most especially in the intense medium of IRC. Knowing why a slave fails can be as much a learning experience for a master as it is for the slave. I don't accept failure; I recognize that it happens. Does that make sense? The more intimately I know the slave's thought processes and her feelings, the more I can anticipate her reaction to certain things. Frequently I can anticipate a slave's failure but push her to that end anyway, knowing it will happen but also knowing that a lesson can be learned from it, by her.

I can guarantee that at one point or another, all my slaves have been given a second, and sometimes a third and fourth chance. The reason isn't that I'm kind, but because it presents a challenge to me, to make her accept something she cannot initially quite accept, to do something she cannot quite do without some hesitation, to not fail.

As an aside, let me say something. Perhaps my ideas are at odds with several of my fellows, but in my opinion you don't beat a girl into finding her belly. You show her what she is through showing her what she can be, not through failure after failure. Yes, I know the adage that one only learns by failure, and I'm not advocating lack of discipline or allowing her nothing but success in her tasks. I can and frequently do use discipline as a learning device. But through knowing her thoughts, her abilities, one can find the right mixture to bring everything together, all those possibilities you see in a slave beforehand. One learns from failure by latching onto something to build on -- stubborn tenacity to continue if nothing else. But if a girl is presented with nothing but failure after failure, I think it ruins her. I've seen it happen, am possibly seeing it again, elsewhere.

Further blasphemy: a master isn't always successful in his attempts to succeed with a slave either, and sometimes it isn't entirely the slave's fault. Sometimes the master isn't what he seemed, meaning he wasn't a master to begin with. Also, sometimes the connection isn't there to begin with, or is lost somewhere along the line.

Question::  In Your opinion, are slaves given too much attention?

Marakesh::  Slaves are extremely needy creatures. There is a fine line between sufficient attention and too much. What a master feels as obligation to a slave's learning or progress can present problems when the attention given a slave cuts the master and slave off from input and stimuli from the rest of the community. A major concern of mine is when a slave assumes that -- even though she says a master's pleasure is her prime concern and focus - she still expects to be his sole focus of attention. I'm a busy man and won't allow a slave to monopolize my attention. In a true, strong, Gorean master and slave relationship, a slave being the sole focus of a master's attention isn't going to happen. Get used to it, girls.

Question::  As a Master, what is Your best attribute? Your worst?

Marakesh::  Considering my lack of patience, I think I'm fairly patient, so perhaps that's it. But then I'm also very impatient occasionally. As long as my best attributes outnumber the worst ones, I should do fine. Maybe you should ask someone else their opinion :)

Question::  How far into Your slave(s) life does Your Mastery reach?

Marakesh::  That depends a great deal on the current real life situation of the slave. Nothing like having someone else's outside influence in a slave's life to contend with, like an irate husband who discovers his 'wife' actually loves someone else and is submitting to that person in ways he doesn't even understand, and perhaps never will.

The luxury of secretiveness and anonymity on IRC can also be its shortcoming. At first there is no way to absolutely confirm certain things which you hope extend into your slave's real life, and it's difficult to do later on as well, truthfully. After a time, one needs to accept on something akin to faith based on past history and what you know as true. Saying that, I can also say that I'm fairly certain my mastery reaches deeply into my slaves lives, because I am, have been, and rightly should be, foremost in their thoughts, illustrated in several different ways, from the collar they wear throughout the day to the binding of their ankle at night, etc. This constant presence allows me a certain amount of control, obviously.

Question::  In your opinion, when is it appropriate to punish a slave?

Marakesh::  Whenever I wish. A slave is an object upon which a master vents his frustration. I think that's fairly self-explanatory. Additionally, I use punishment as a learning or educational tool to illustrate to a girl exactly what she is, a slave, nothing more. That too, is self-explanatory.

"More than one Master, I suspect, has been enslaved by the beauty who kneels before Him. It is one of the excruciating delights of the Mastery to expose oneself fully to, yet skirt, the dangers of the girls beauty, to keep oneself strong, to draw the absolute fullness of pleasure from her, and to resist her wiles, to get everything from her, and yet keep her on her knee's completely."   - SlaveGirl of Gor ..pg 36

Question::  Your opinion of the meaning of the passage?

Marakesh::  To not allow yourself as master to be manipulated by a slave, or any female for that matter. To enjoy the pleasures a slave provides but not allow her to use them against you for her own ends, 'topped' in other words, unless of course you are aware of what she's trying to do and allow the 'manipulation' by recognizing it for what it is, for you own ends. Always keep your hand tightly on a slave's chain. After all, this is where it should be, and where she wants it as well, isn't it?

Question::  In Your opinion, what is the most important thing a Master/slave should know about each other before entering into a collar commitment?

Marakesh::  Some people might say they should know they can trust one another, but in my mind trust is arrived at through good communication and a certain amount of intuition. I've always said that communication is the key in a relationship like this, just as it is for other commitments. I think both parties should be absolutely certain they have the ability to communicate well with one another and have made the right connection. This applies to real life as well, obviously, but is especially important on IRC. With an ability to communicate intimately, almost intuitively, you can gauge honesty, sincerity, trust, intelligence, desire, creativity, emotion, nearly everything.

I dread to say this because someone will undoubtedly relate it to earthly romance, which I've never considered a true Gorean master/slave relationship to be. But one of the interesting things about these type of decisions or commitments is that they're rarely logical <laugh>. Think about it. The ultimate goal for a master and/or slave is a type of feeling, a type of emotion response. Under normal conditions, we are supposed to use our reason, our ability to think things through logically, to make decisions. Of course, hardly any of us do that all the time, even when we make up our mind to do it. Even that decision is sometimes a knee-jerk emotional reaction to something else <chuckle>.

But anyway, committing to a collar or relationship like this is almost always a matter of intuition, of feeling, a near leap of faith for those involved. Desire can be physical or emotional. A master tells a slave to follow her belly, for example, which for her to do makes it a purely emotional, intuitive, feeling thing. Masters frequently 'see' things, possibilities, in a girl that no one else has. Is it based on logic? To a degree, based on his past experience. But the information to make decisions is gathered through good communication, and a decision like this by a type of intuition. Not always, but usually.

Miscellaneous

Question::  If you were a Gorean animal, what would you be? (Larl, sleen, tarn, etc.) Explain why.

Marakesh::  I am a Gorean animal. And it's delightful to be one :)

Question::  Where do You feel FreeWomen are making their biggest mistake on IRC Gor?

Marakesh::  By insisting on being treated as an equal to a male. By pretending to be male, guzzling kalana or drooling on the female slaves, for example. By treating the slaves as if they were some type of pet, giving candy and treats and calling them 'dear.' Or worse, by treating a master as if he were. I've known two, perhaps three, free women worthy of my private conversation. They were intelligent, understood boundaries, and respected those boundaries.

Question::  According to the source books, Gorean FreeWomen are utilized to bear Free children, manage the books, etc. In Your opinion, what purpose do Free Women serve on IRC Gor?

Marakesh::  Target practice.

Question::  Are there any customs to IRC Gor, that You do not feel are reflective of the writings of Norman?

Marakesh::  I may be mistaken, but I don't remember Free Women relaxing in paga taverns in Norman's books. This offense worsens when the freewomen multiply and the channel begins sounding like a domesticated vulo pen. Nor do I remember seeing a slave girl rubbing what she serves across her sex before presenting it to a master, or 'special protection' collars. In a related vein I'm not particularly fond of D&D refugees either, or those olde English Camelot dwellers..you know who thou art.

Question::  What is the difference between a Gorean and a non-Gorean?

Marakesh::  In many ways I dislike differentiating between Gorean and non-Gorean. In the end it can break down into semantics. Many of us had honor and integrity before we even knew it could be applied to something called 'Gorean philosophy.' I know men of honor and integrity outside Gor that would be stunned to be considered remotely Gorean. Honor and integrity doesn't make one Gorean, but it is an important facet within the philosophy. Ultimately however, a Gorean accepts the basic moral and sociological ideas within the source books. This means that a male Gorean, for example, has a set rule or code of behavior he defines within himself, one of honor and integrity, one of strength, of defending himself and his property to the best of his ability. Of course, acceptance of the basic precepts is generally evidenced in the Gorean idea of dominance, which is actually manifested throughout Gorean culture but most clearly evidenced by sexual dominance. Speaking from that context, in my opinion a Gorean male's mastery and a slave's submission are on a much deeper level. Many may disagree. I can only judge based on my own ideas and past experience. I found the dress up games of BDSM ridiculous, and preconditions, safe words, 'timed scenarios,' and going out for coffee afterwards as equals very annoying indeed. Who is controlling that situation, the master/dom, or the slave/sub? No thank you.

Incidentally, I prefer the term and practice of D/s rather than BDSM. In my mind D/s signifies a more mental, deeper emotional dominance, rather than association with the above mentioned BDSM trappings of leather, rubber, spiked heels and knowing how to tie a variety of knots.

Question::  In the books, slaves often change collars many times when they are sold or traded. Why is this such a taboo to so many online Goreans?

Marakesh::  A series of collars seems to set off an alarm indicating a problem within the girl herself, which isn't necessarily the case. Other circumstances may have been involved, including an incapable master or two, coincidence, and plain bad luck. This isn't to say a series of collars doesn't indicate a problem within the girl. That certainly happens. One has to decide that individually. Also, many men tend to confuse a slave girl with a girl friend, with the baggage that idea entails.

Question::  Do you feel the qualifications for choosing an online caste such as "Warrior" should be more strict?

Marakesh::  I don't know. Would everyone have to submit a r/l resume? That would certainly burst a few ego bubbles, wouldn't it?

Question::  Are caste codes important? How would you define the codes of your own caste?

Marakesh::  I think there are lessons to be learned from all castes. This is illustrated on IRC Gor by my 'wearing' a multicolored, braided belt signifying the various Castes. Wearing scarlett, white, or blue shouldn't limit your vision or make you blind, deaf, or stupid, although this certainly happens. I wear the scarlett because it felt more natural and came closer to my personal history when I arrived on Gor. But these days I frequently consider myself a warrior of words. A few people may clench their teeth when I say this, but I gather ideas from a variety of sources and in many ways think I have no set Caste. But my codes are personal ones, and defining them for anyone else isn't necessary. You want a definition, listen to my words and watch my actions.

Question::  How do you feel about the various online "Leagues" and "Confederations" which exist among online Gorean society? Are these private clubs beneficial or detrimental to our online dealings?

Marakesh::  Actually, I've paid little attention to them. What attention I have given them make me think them factional, splintering, detrimental. They seem to merely be a forum for personal attacks and vendetta. Many I find humorous, especially the self-appointed Ubars or leaders. In a way one can understand a strength-oriented Gorean wanting to be top dog, but it always declines into a name calling battle of who is more Gorean and who isn't Gorean at all. One should lead by example, and be a leader because the others allow him to lead because he has shown the ability to do so, not because he says he is, or says he should be. That's something those on self-built pedestals can't seem to understand. Nor should we always unquestioningly accept the words of those self-appointed pedestal dwellers. Demagogues drown out the competition by frequent, repetitive, loud preaching, so no one can hear anyone else. This also allows the demagogue to close his ears and eyes as well.

Question::  Do You consider Tarl Cabot Gorean?

Marakesh::  Well....<chuckle>....Cabot has the benefit of being a fictional creation in a fictional culture on a fictional world. Yes, certain aspects of that culture have been applied by some of us to real life. But Cabot is as Gorean as anyone from Earth can ever be, in a way, so yes, I would personally classify him as Gorean, but only as the series progresses. He's not exactly full-blooded even then, if you know what I mean, because he still has occasional non-Gorean reactions to some situations, sensitivity, for example. One should remember that even though some of us might aspire to be more like the source books, we're still seeing interpretations of Gor through Tarl Cabot, a man from Earth, but also as presented by John Norman, a writer/philosopher from Earth.

Question::  Do you think a standardized system of virtual monetary exchange would be a good idea, or a bad one?

Marakesh::  <laugh> I think it would be very difficult to put into practice. When is the last time you saw a pauper on IRC? Everyone is fabulously well-to-do. Are we going to put our virtual money in a virtual bank headed by a virtual banker and spend it on virtual paga? I don't think so.

Question::  How much role-playing in a Gorean channel is too much, beyond the typical serving of pretend beverages and food, cyber-whippings, etc?

Marakesh::  As long as it is Gorean related from the source books, especially if it's somehow related to what you do or have done in your real life, it's a bit easier to accept. I've seen Scribes in the channel taking notes, real life writers or students, or real life musicians playing the kalika, or store clerks as merchants, for example. Just don't sound like an idiot. Know what you're talking about, know that it's Gorean in content, but know what you're doing and what it's all about, too. Don't be just a player or gamer, and don't let the physical trappings of Gor or the events in the books become more important than the philosophy, than being Gorean.

I have a problem with those that come into a channel almost giving Gorean resumes, having obviously thumbed through the books culling professions, places and events, with D&D die assistance to say they're 9 feet tall or they've got a 6 foot long broadsword they swing with one hand. You ever swing a six foot broadsword, people? Try it.

Since I'm given to metaphor and allegory <g>, on IRC Gor I have a bit of black stone from the Sardar I wear as a reminder of my journey there. In real life, I wear a small katana necklace. Both things mean the same to me, the discovery of something I lost and refound on a journey I took. Is that considered role play? I don't know.

Question::  How do you feel the concept of one's "Home Stone" should relate to our online channels?

Marakesh::  It's important to have a home on IRC I think, a center, a core group of friends. That home should be the place you keep going back to because you like to, and have become loyal to. That loyalty to the place and specific benefits of kinship and atmosphere it provides in return is exactly like a pledge to a Home Stone.

Having been at the S&S so long, at what I consider the best known Gorean channel on the net, and as an Op, I'm lucky in that regard. It's good for the recognition your Home Stone provides, assuming it's got a good reputation overall. I guess that depends upon one's Home Stone <chuckle>. Say Silk&Steel and people usually either love it or hate it. The people that love it are the ones that return; the people that hate it, have usually been thrown out for recurring stupidity.

Question::  Do you feel it is appropriate for Goreans to maintain more than one nick at a time?

Marakesh::  To me that suggests a lack of seriousness on their part, which of course immediately makes one question their true Gorean status. I've had my nick since before I entered the S&S, and though I didn't register it for a couple months after that, I think by now my nick and reputation is fairly recognizable to those within the dalnet Gorean IRC community. I may have a thousand faces, but have only one name, and the reputation which goes with that name is important to me. It goes hand in hand with integrity.